Trusting Jose's Judgement

elnorte

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This one seems to such a contentious and divisive issue of late especially in regards to our two most likely signings in Matic and Perisic.

I understand (and tend to agree with) the more measured argument that Jose should be afforded every possible resource to develop the team in a way which he sees fit. Furthermore if the club are not willing to provide such unequivocal support, particularly in the relatively early days of his managerial tenure, then what is the point in him continuing in his current role of Manchester United manager?

However, I am for one am not an advocate for blind faith in any scenario and it is troubling the amount of people that showed such aggressive zealousness when it came to the question of whether or not Jose is making the correct decision at any given time. Surely to not debate and discuss these issues whenever the moment presents itself is both counter-productive, counter-intuitive and runs contrary the entire ethos of a forum such as this one?

My personal opinion is that the point was reached quite some time ago where we have been left with no other choice than to do everything possible to ensure the deals for both Matic and Perisic are completed in time for the start of the new season or at the very latest prior to the closure of the transfer window.

The main reason being that is has become fairly clear the Mourinho is solely fixated in acquiring both these players at any cost and it seems inconceivable at this stage that any alternative options are truly being considered. On the basis alone he has to be given the chance to demonstrate in real terms the significant benefits he believes, both Perisic and Matic, will bring to the team. If not he'd have every justification (and would certainly take every opportunity!) to complain later if things are not going well that he wasn't given the necessary backing when needed. No doubt as well his most ardent supporters would do the same.

However, it is also my belief that one could be forgiven for questioning Jose's decision-making in this instance. I myself am not convinced it is the right course of action. I think as well if people are being absolutely honest, and they were told a couple of month ago these players would be two of our major signings this summer, they'd be hard pressed to not express their disappointment. It's actually ok to do so even now and I doubt very much anyone would think any less of you as a fan if you did . I won't go too much further into it at this stage but to put it simply I'm struggling to convince myself that his chosen recruits will allow us to once again to compete for the highest honours and I think instead we might find ourselves in a very similar position to last year.

It's a complete cliche but I'll be very happy to be proven wrong in the above respect. With luck bringing the new players that Jose has identified will finally see the team click in the way he wants it to and will allow the existing members of the team to properly flourish in their respective roles. If this does happen I'll certainly be happy but I won't feel guilty about my initial skepticism. In my opinion one should always question no matter if the answer seems very obvious and particularly in the face of heavy (and sometimes aggressive) opposition from those who take a dissenting view.
 

arthurka

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Jose wins titles with little fuzz and flair that is a fact.. If he wants players like that he should get them.. And we have to many young players and not enough quality in players that are at the peak, Matic and Perisic will add to that..
 

Devil may care

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I don't trust it to produce the kind of football I want to see United play and that's what I care about, I've not gone into a season so down since Moyes. Maybe this side George Graham's it's way to the title but that's not all football is about IMO.
 

nore1975

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His signings last year were spot on. He didn't take a scatter gun approach. He is being targeted again this year. You could definitely query some of the transfer fees ye have paid under Jose however time may prove them to have been fair and possibly good value. Bar Schneiderlin and possibly Depay and Januzaj you couldn't argue with those he has moved on,
 

elnorte

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His signings last year were spot on. He didn't take a scatter gun approach. He is being targeted again this year. You could definitely query some of the transfer fees ye have paid under Jose however time may prove them to have been fair and possibly good value. Bar Schneiderlin and possibly Depay and Januzaj you couldn't argue with those he has moved on,
None of his signings last year were duds. But let's be honest we can and should be expecting a hell of a lot more out of Pogba and Mkhitaryan this coming season.
 

Matt7

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Jose makes players want to die for him. It doesn't matter how or who does the job as long as the job gets done.

Trust him, trust the players he brings in and lets get back to where we belong.
 
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whatwha

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I trust that he's making us hard to beat (Moyes likes this) but I don't trust that he will get us playing great entertaining football.
 

elnorte

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Jose makes players want to die for him. It doesn't matter how or who does the job as long as the job gets done.

Trust him, trust the players he brings in and lets get back to where we belong.
Sigh...
 

Keeps It tidy

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We finished 6th last season I know we won the League Cup and the Europa League but, we finished 6th. So I do not have blind faith in him especially with how his last tenure at Chelsea ended.
 

fallengt

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Mourinho 's a top manager but hasn't done much at United. Europa League champion is nice and all but it's still a loser cup in my book and we finished 6th in the league last season. He's been here for one year and nothing guarantees his priority is keeping United tradition more than his self-interest (winning silverware).

Which being said he has my support but until his team look like a title challenger or champion league giant again, I don't blindly trust anyone.
 
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Will Absolute

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It's hard to see us challenging with a squad of players where Pogba shines like a diamond on a dung pile. If we are competitive it won't be because of our scintillating football..
 

Jonboy

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I refuse to trust any man who declares Marouane Fellaini an important player.
 

TheReligion

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Oh well, it's not like you don't already have a reputation of being a belligerent ass is it?
Sorry. Just being honest. You wrote an awful lot without offering anything groundbreaking or of real interest.

If ever TLDR was appropriate..
 

AXVnee7

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Sigh because??

Would you moan if England won the World Cup without playing a certain way?
Sigh because it's just a generic statement saying 'trust Jose' without any reasoning which is exactly what the OP is contemplating.

To answer the OP myself, it's important to remain skeptical of Jose and not blindly follow and justify everything that he does. He like everyone else is prone to managerial errors. He made plenty last season (but of course made a heck of a lot more positive changes). The OP says that most people would be disappointed with this window, and indeed many are disappointed with our window so far but I think the underlying problem is that the players we've signed are not glamorous ones. They're not the effervescent Fabinhos, Griezmann, Dembeles etc that we all wanted. Having said that we have to have a reasonable trust in Jose that he is trying to get the best players he can, who can both do the job he wants but also excite the fans. There's no question all of the signings made so far serve to improve our team. Lukaku is a dynamic striker, Matic is a DM we don't have, and Lindelof offers brilliant distribution (even if he's not settled well so far).
 

The United

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Jose makes players want to die for him. It doesn't matter how or who does the job as long as the job gets done.

Trust him, trust the players he brings in and lets get back to where we belong.
He needs to do that thing at United more than anything.

It is fair to say that that didn't exactly happen at United.

We hope it does sooner than later.
 

elnorte

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Sorry. Just being honest. You wrote an awful lot without offering anything groundbreaking or of real interest.

If ever TLDR was appropriate..
Ok. Well I guess no further discussion between us on this subject is necessary.
 

Paxi

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I refuse to trust any man who declares Marouane Fellaini an important player.
Okay then.

I prefer to see the bigger picture i.e. 2 Champions Leagues, 2 Europa Leagues 8 League titles in 4 different countries and 8 Domestic Cup competitions which he won. I'm not even including super cups in Spain, Italy and Charity Shield in England.

But, yeah, don't be trusting a man with credentials like that.

Anyway, I'm no Fellaini fan, but if Jose says he's an important part of our squad then I fully trust his judgment.
 

Kostur

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I'm not entirely sure what's your point OP and I don't mean it as an insult. You don't like people questioning you questioning Mourinho? Or, should we fail, you can say 'I told you so' but should we succeed, we cannot tell you 'you ain't know shit'?

FWIW no, neither Perisic nor Matic would be my first picks (Bernardo Silva and Fabinho would be) but if Jose deems them the right players, then so be it. For all my hate towards this average Dier, if he was brought in, I wouldn't sit my ass in his thread 24/7 telling everybody how we've made a mistake and that he should feck off, scathing him at any opportunity given. It's not even about some blind belief in Mourinho, I've had the same stuff with LVG in his first season when I'd criticise our own players if they didn't play properly in the 352, not the tactic or system itself. In the second season when it was pretty clear that we're going through a fecking borefest again, it would be too much especially given that LVG's CV was last impressive around the time Jesus rode T-rex to work.

We've also brought in some flashy players, Depays, Zahas, looked like exciting players who, in the end, failed miserably. For me the jury is still out for Miki too. Perhaps the players we bring in aren't as exciting as Fabinho or Silva, or even as Depay when we got him, but perhaps they'll work unlikely some of the last purchases. Mou got 3.5 out of 4 transfers right last season (the 0.5 being Miki), from the purely United perspective there's no reason whatsoever not to trust him in the market.
 

Matt7

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Sigh because it's just a generic statement saying 'trust Jose' without any reasoning which is exactly what the OP is contemplating.

To answer the OP myself, it's important to remain skeptical of Jose and not blindly follow and justify everything that he does. He like everyone else is prone to managerial errors. He made plenty last season (but of course made a heck of a lot more positive changes). The OP says that most people would be disappointed with this window, and indeed many are disappointed with our window so far but I think the underlying problem is that the players we've signed are not glamorous ones. They're not the effervescent Fabinhos, Griezmann, Dembeles etc that we all wanted. Having said that we have to have a reasonable trust in Jose that he is trying to get the best players he can, who can both do the job he wants but also excite the fans. There's no question all of the signings made so far serve to improve our team. Lukaku is a dynamic striker, Matic is a DM we don't have, and Lindelof offers brilliant distribution (even if he's not settled well so far).
Fair comment and particularly agree with what you say about us not signing glamorous players.

Agreed we can't blindly trust Jose - however he's giving us hope and deserves the backing/ support he's getting.
 

elnorte

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I'm not entirely sure what's your point OP and I don't mean it as an insult. You don't like people questioning you questioning Mourinho? Or, should we fail, you can say 'I told you so' but should we succeed, we cannot tell you 'you ain't know shit'?

FWIW no, neither Perisic nor Matic would be my first picks (Bernardo Silva and Fabinho would be) but if Jose deems them the right players, then so be it. For all my hate towards this average Dier, if he was brought in, I wouldn't sit my ass in his thread 24/7 telling everybody how we've made a mistake and that he should feck off, scathing him at any opportunity given. It's not even about some blind belief in Mourinho, I've had the same stuff with LVG in his first season when I'd criticise our own players if they didn't play properly in the 352, not the tactic or system itself. In the second season when it was pretty clear that we're going through a fecking borefest again, it would be too much especially given that LVG's CV was last impressive around the time Jesus rode T-rex to work.

We've also brought in some flashy players, Depays, Zahas, looked like exciting players who, in the end, failed miserably. For me the jury is still out for Miki too. Perhaps the players we bring in aren't as exciting as Fabinho or Silva, or even as Depay when we got him, but perhaps they'll work unlikely some of the last purchases. Mou got 3.5 out of 4 transfers right last season (the 0.5 being Miki), from the purely United perspective there's no reason whatsoever not to trust him in the market.
Since the transfer threads on the players have been such colossal trainwrecks on the subject I was just attempting to prove a little bit more of a considered stance on the subject, offering my own point of view while also trying to remain balanced.

People can question all they like but I was just trying to say it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. Also throw anything back in my face you like but I won't be saying I told you so regardless of what transpires.
 
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Andycoleno9

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Jose wins titles with little fuzz and flair that is a fact.. If he wants players like that he should get them.. And we have to many young players and not enough quality in players that are at the peak, Matic and Perisic will add to that..
This sums it up
 

Jed I. Knight

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I don't particularly trust Mourinho's judgement, and I believe the signings he's making will only serve to extend the utterly tedious line of mediocrity we've settle into since Fergie retired. Our appalling performance in the league his first season, and the players he's bringing in now are the main reason.

That aside, whether or not I believe his moves will succeed goes out the window the moment our first game of the season starts. I'll be cheering the team on, including the players I didn't hope we'd sign.

I'm unsure why that seems such a controversial position to take around here. It's always this ridiculous dichotomy of "you either believe in every move the manager makes, or you don't want what's best for the club".
 
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JoaquinJoaquin

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I do trust Jose, especially in the transfer market. That is why I've been of the belief that if he wants Matic or Perisic we have to do it as he has been successful in the transfer market and deserves the trust.

However I don't think he is perfect nor is any manager. His trust and over usage of personell such as Fellaini, Lingard and Darmian (who admittedly has been better) leaves alot to be desired and holds us back IMO.

He has my full backing though, and expect us to be better this season. I'm not expecting us to win the league but I'd probably be happy with 3rd, a trophy and a decent run in the champions league.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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I think, and I mean this very respectively, is Jose is nothing like Fergie and most United fans relate Fergie's success to who they are as a club. Jose is doing what he thinks is right for success, it may not be how Fergie would have done it but he will get there given time. There is no other manager, bar maybe Ancelloti, that would give United the success you as fans want.
 

Parry Gallister

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I think, and I mean this very respectively, is Jose is nothing like Fergie and most United fans relate Fergie's success to who they are as a club. Jose is doing what he thinks is right for success, it may not be how Fergie would have done it but he will get there given time. There is no other manager, bar maybe Ancelloti, that would give United the success you as fans want.
Success we need really, rather than just want. Will support the club however well we do, but the fight's still on against the prospect of slipping and results are needed in the short term; Liverpool have historically shown what only thinking ahead (until those plans go out the window after a few years and you make a new set etc.) gets you. Winning silverware, particularly a league stops the rot, am all-in for short-term success.

Do find Mourinho's negativity (on the pitch) over emphasised though, his Chelsea sides in particular have played good football, really enjoyed his last title winning season - more than I can say for a lot of the football under Van Gaal, and more than all of the other feckwit's near season in charge.

I don't know if they are totally unalike, Fergie was also an arch-pragmatist, albeit one who went all in when gambled on changing a losing position.
 
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MadMike

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Jose makes players want to die for him. It doesn't matter how or who does the job as long as the job gets done.

Trust him, trust the players he brings in and lets get back to where we belong.
Like they were willing to die for him at Chelsea when from Champions they finished 10th and Jose got the sack? :rolleyes:

He is a great manager but ridiculous statements like that is what makes us more moderate fans roll our eyeballs straight into the back of our head.
 

Pexbo

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Like they were willing to die for him at Chelsea when from Champions they finished 10th and Jose got the sack? :rolleyes:

He is a great manager but ridiculous statements like that is what makes us more moderate fans roll our eyeballs straight into the back of our head.
You either get 100% behind the managers ideas or you sack him. There's no moderate middle ground.

That is exactly how the club got behind Fergie despite any number of questionable decisions.


There are question marks over Mourinho's past and the reason they are question marks rather than negative marks is because there is two sides to any story and all of Mourinho's toughest moments have come when the players feel more powerful than the manager because the owner/chairman sides with them.

Won't happen here.
 

Bwuk

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I trust him. Think it's clear we are being modelled after his first Chelsea side.

Matic will sit ala Makelele. Herrera providing legs and energy ala Essien. Pogba getting forward like Lampard.

We have a target man forward. All we lack is wingers.
 

MadMike

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You either get 100% behind the managers ideas or you sack him. There's no moderate middle ground.
Let's agree to completely and utterly disagree.

There's literally hundreds of other clubs that are run successfully without complete and absolute control by the manager. Including all the clubs that have been more successful than us (Real, Barca, Bayern etc operate with presidential or DoF control, rather than managerial control)
 

Mr Smith

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I get the point your making, but the wild assumption that Jose is set on Perisic and Matic and didn't (doesn't) have any alternatives in mind is unfair to say the least. We don't know half of what goes on in a transfer window and we often find out years later we were in for a certain player and it didn't happen.
 

GrandJury

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He's a world class manager and has proved how good he is at every club he's ever been at.

Fin.
 

Camilo

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You either get 100% behind the managers ideas or you sack him. There's no moderate middle ground
Totally disagree - there's an enormous patch of Middle ground where most sensible and balanced fans stand.
 

RedCurry

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We don't need to have world class players to play world class football. If Jose can have us play attacking football with a respectable amount of goals return, I don't quite honestly care if we buy Perisic or Bale.
 

SirAF

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I trust that he's making us hard to beat (Moyes likes this) but I don't trust that he will get us playing great entertaining football.
We don't need to play entertaining football, we need to play winning football. Either way, I'm sure we'll get both.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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The manager wants two players that are available and very realistic targets, for what are - in today's market - reasonable prices. I don't see where the problem lies?
 

ghagua

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I will trust Mourinho when he brings either the league title or the Champions league back to old Trafford. Until then, the jury remains out just like any other manager.
 

AR87

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I'd be quite satisfied with a Lukaku, Lindelof, Matic and Perisic window. They all add particular skills that we lacked last year or in Lukaku's case, needed replacing given Zlatan's injury. Obviously there's a chance some of them don't settle or make the step up, but I understand and agree with the logic in each addition, with Perisic still pending, obviously.