Tuchel turns down Bayern| German media speculating about PSG/Arsenal

[aditya826]

I still think Tuchel will end up in PL at either Arsenal or Chelsea.

Conte is going to leave Chelsea end of season, and will get PSG job [which he was linked to by Di Marzio few days ago.]
Tuchel will get either Chelsea or Arsenal if Wenger resigns and he sorts out the beef with Mislintat.

Bayern will either extend Jupp for one more season [don't think its probable] or go with Joachim Low, which leaves Tuchel a good spot to coach the National team [since he was considered the best German coach available by the Bayern Board]

So either way it ends up its a good power move by Tuchel. He realized he didn't have consensus with the Bayern board and so probably would have thought it'd be better if he avoids the job given his knack of falling out with the board.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Noone, at any point, did suggest Man United were or are in the running for Tuchel. So you guys can relax.

Dont know where all this Arsenal speculation comes from, apart from it being a good fit

The latest bulk of speculation all comes from yesterday's article on the website of German 'kicker' magazine, stating in no uncertain terms that "Tuchel is going to Arsenal".
Usually, this kind of language is only employed by kicker about things that are confirmed, or about to be confirmed. That's why the article made waves. In this case though, I have the feeling kicker made a blunder, and other outlets have published that PSG or Chelsea are the destinations.

 

[James Peril]

He was fired because of infighting with the CEO and some big players in the team (Sahin, Schemlzer), in most of the cases Tuchel was in the right. Sahin, Schemzler are past it and Watze's decision to not delay the UCL quarter-final after the bomb attack was an insult to his team. Tuchel ultimately left with his head high after winning the German Cup, hardly a disgraceful exit.

And can you read the header of the thread? It says he rejected Bayern, what other team do you want him to attract? He's a top potential manager.

I wouldn’t trust a single article without direct quotes from the man himself - or perhaps Bayern. They probably want someone German, but in any case the jobs are totally different. Germany is won by Bayern on default, just like Celtic in Scotland - it’s always just a rosy caretaker role. In England you are attacked on all fronts. Bayern are expected to mount a serious campaign in the CL of course, but it’s always a hard ask.

As for Tuchel’s departure, it’s not exactly great to fall out with management and senior players. If you can’t handle a washed up full-back and a mediocre midfielder, doesn’t that imply he can lack authority? You mention his cup win, but leave out the part that they finished 3rd in a two-team (well, one team) league - 18 points behind Bayern. Letting in 40 goals in a 36-game league is incredibly poor and probably shows his weaknesses. Seems a perfect fit for Arsenal though, they’ll continue to play nicely and let in a shitload of goals just like they’re doing now. In the PL going forward, you probably cant’t afford to let in more than 32+ goals to win the league - no way in hell is Tuchel going to manage that with his style.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

As far as I know the schedule made it impossible to postpone the match more than a day, so the story is that Dortmund's leadership decided to play the match the following day (after consulting with Tuchel (suppsedly at least)) and then if I remember correctly Watzke apparently talked to the squad the following morning (the matchday) and explained to them that the club had to play the match but they would support and excuse any player who did not want to play.

Personally I think it's pathetic to try and point a moral finger in hindsight at decisions that have been made in such a unique situation and under all kinds of pressure - meaning not just sporting or financial issues, but also political pressure from the highest of goverment ranks.

I agree. Yours is a much more balanced view on the topic unlike the one I replied to.

 

[aditya826]

As for Tuchel’s departure, it’s not exactly great to fall out with management and senior players. If you can’t handle a washed up full-back and a mediocre midfielder, doesn’t that imply he can lack authority? You mention his cup win, but leave out the part that they finished 3rd in a two-team (well, one team) league - 18 points behind Bayern. Letting in 40 goals in a 36-game league is incredibly poor and probably shows his weaknesses. Seems a perfect fit for Arsenal though, they’ll continue to play nicely and let in a shitload of goals just like they’re doing now. In the PL going forward, you probably cant’t afford to let in more than 32+ goals to win the league - no way in hell is Tuchel going to manage that with his style.

Get rid of Kompany Silva and Sane and see how Guardiola struggles.
Get rid of Bailly Matic and Martial and see how Mourinho would struggle.
Get rid of Alderweireld Eriksen and Alli and see how Poch would struggle.

He lost his entire spine of Hummels Gundogan and Mkhitaryan in the space of 1 month. In such a short duration, it doesn't happen in any other top club in Europe.

Agreed he had brilliant young players like Dembele and Pulisic but don't you think it is too difficult to maintain a top level with 17 year olds?

He was brought in to 'get Dortmund automatic qualification in Champions League' and he more than succeeded on that front. He fell out with the board because the standards he wanted at the club was not what the board wanted. The board seemed happy to sell players and earn the quick buck rather than winning trophies. Lets be fair while levying our criticisms.

 

[el3mel]

Because the list of managers who are proven winners at the top level is very short and by no means guarantee anything:
- Pep, at City
- Heynckess, will retire
- Simeone, too defensive, also hasn't been in charge of the elite club
- Zidane, doubts about his tactics
- Ancelloti, expired
- Enrique, thanks, but no thanks
- Allegri, very good manager and a great tactician

So, people naturally look those who have the most potential to get that step up. You can't say how Tuchel, Poch or Jardim will react until you give them a chance. You can only see the work they've done at previous clubs. The mentioned category of very top managers isn't set in stone and will look different in few years time when one or two break through. To expect every manager must make a "Jose" and win a CL with "Porto" is harsh considering that the gap between the elite and those bellow is getting bigger with each passing year as the result of their growing spending power.

Personally, I really like Tuchel. Not in a sense that he should be our manager, but just that I think he has enormous potential. At this point of time, though, not just his lack of trophy, but also his personality and question marks over transfer dealings would make him highly risky appointment and I'm not sure he would handle it so well. With DoF behind him, that risk would be much lower.
Everyone logically compares him with Klopp as they both managed Dortmund and Mainz, but Tuchel is extremely interesting because, despite being not even close to Klopp's trophy cabinet, he has an ability to switch various gameplans not only before each game but during the 90 minutes. Counter-pressing, soak up the pressure or shift to possession style football when needed. That, along with innovative technics used during training makes him potentially better and more rounded than Klopp, IMO.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/07/thomas-tuchel-borussia-dortmund-jurgen-klopp

Football, like every other business, changes over a period of time. The ability to see, think, do things differently and creatively will always be highly valued as those people will lead the change in the end.

Of course, all this could turn out to be baloney. He never did manage a big club, has personality issues and it's a different game at the very top level. But, I can see why Bayern or other top clubs would want him.

The work that these managers did at their previous work prove what they are going to do here. Anyone who hopes for something more is just hoping, nothing else. These managers will play great football here but are going to finish 3rd or 4th while winning nothing. Some are OK with that as long as we will play great football to see, OK, no problem, but no need to delude yourself that a manager who won nothing will suddenly become a world beater once you give them money, because you haven't seen anything like that to prove otherwise, you wanted them because they played good football to see, that's it.

Personally, my favorite choice after Mourinho will be Allegri.

 

[SCP]

You mention his cup win, but leave out the part that they finished 3rd in a two-team (well, one team) league - 18 points behind Bayern.

Can you explain to me how many teams fight for titles in England?

 

[aditya826]

The work that these managers did at their previous work prove what they are going to do here. Anyone who hopes for something more is just hoping, nothing else. These managers will play great football here but are going to finish 3rd or 4th while winning nothing. Some are OK with that as long as we will play great football to see, OK, no problem, but no need to delude yourself that a manager who won nothing will suddenly become a world beater once you give them money, because you haven't seen anything like that to prove otherwise, you wanted them because they played good football to see, that's it.

Personally, my favorite choice after Mourinho will be Allegri.

Yeah and Allegri won feck all before he got the Milan job.
Managers don't start their careers with a 10 trophies. Every manager has to toil hard through to achieve those things, and BIG trophies seldom come in second/ third tier clubs where money is rarely invested to over-achieve the objectives

 

[el3mel]

Yeah and Allegri won feck all before he got the Milan job.
Managers don't start their careers with a 10 trophies. Every manager has to toil hard through to achieve those things, and BIG trophies seldom come in second/ third tier clubs where money is rarely invested to over-achieve the objectives

You can't say no one was questioning Allegri at this time or simply give him a free pass. It's fair to question these managers till they prove otherwise. Putting a blind faith in them becoming world beaters based on nothing is the illogical thing.

You can't say you want them because you know they will win trophies. You want them because they play gold football,and you wish with money they can start winning actual things. That's just wishful thinking, and that why you want them.

 

[aditya826]

You can't say no one was questioning Allegri at this time or simply give him a free pass. It's fair to question these managers till they prove otherwise. Putting a blind faith in them becoming world beaters based on nothing is the illogical thing.

You can't say you want them because you know they will win trophies. You want them because they play gold football,and you wish with money they can start winning actual things. That's just wishful thinking, and that why you want them.

Signing a manager who has won trophies in his past doesn't win us a lottery ticket to big titles. It doesn't work that way, LVG and Mou's term at United has substantiated that beyond reasonable doubt. There are no guarantees in football.

Its not blind faith when you can see the managers like Tuchel are tactically aware and have the nous to improve every player and get the best out of them while also playing attacking football. Its these managers who are going to be big names in the near future and it is a fairly wise idea to go for them when they are relatively new in their careers. However, an unrequited love in a manager that neither gives you beautiful football nor gives you a title is worse than blind faith and will lead the club absolute nowhere.

 

[BayernFan87]

It seems to me as most non-germany severly underrate Tuchel. He managed to transform Klopps "counterattacking side" to a possession and passing based team in just a couple of months. He won the cup, was the best 2nd point wise in the league history and let play some beautiful football.
During his two years in Dortmund he had the most points on average of every coach, during his years at Mainz he also gained more points than Klopp.
You can also take a look at Dortmunds decline this year without Tuchel.

I'd put good money on it, that the will be VERY successful at his next club.

 

[el3mel]

Signing a manager who has won trophies in his past doesn't win us a lottery ticket to big titles. It doesn't work that way, LVG and Mou's term at United has substantiated that beyond reasonable doubt. There are no guarantees in football.

Its not blind faith when you can see the managers like Tuchel are tactically aware and have the nous to improve every player and get the best out of them while also playing attacking football. Its these managers who are going to be big names in the near future and it is a fairly wise idea to go for them when they are relatively new in their careers. However, an unrequited love in a manager that neither gives you beautiful football nor gives you a title is worse than blind faith and will lead the club absolute nowhere.

It gives you better chances and less risks when you get big names. Mourinho with all the faults actually won 2 trophies and has us second on the league now. LVG was a past it manager when we got him. You need to differentiate between getting a top winner and a past it. I won't want Carlo here for example as I see him as a past it, but Allegri is a top coach tactically and will continue on the work Mourinho will leave.

You see them tactically aware, OK but I see both Tuchel and Jardim as the opposite. They are both very naive manager and got schooled on meeting a superior tactical team. Poch is much, much tactically aware than both IMO and even him still got questions on him.

You are referring back to my point again. You want them because they play gold football and you're 'wishful' thinking that they will win. They can or they can't, nothing is proving that gonna happen let's be honest. You're just hoping for the best, like wishing getting Mourinho out of sudden he won't become a pragmatic counter based manager. We all know what we were getting with Jose, a solid defensive team with good counter attacking and grinding results in multiple games. We also know what we are getting with Jardim and Tuchel. Don't put too much expectation to not get disappointed.

 

[Frasbul]

I think he will be a great success, if he joins Arsenal. He might even make them champions.

 

[shaky]

Can you explain to me how many teams fight for titles in England?

Lots really. 4 different winners in the past 5 seasons. Nobody has even managed to successfully defend the title since Utd in 2009.

 

[SCP]

You see them tactically aware, OK but I see both Tuchel and Jardim as the opposite. They are both very naive manager and got schooled on meeting a superior tactical team. Poch is much, much tactically aware than both IMO and even him still got questions on him.

You mean the Pochettino who lost 2 times against Jardim last season, or lost 2 times against Tuchel 2 years ago?

 

[el3mel]

You mean the Pochettino who lost 2 times against Jardim last season, or lost 2 times against Tuchel 2 years ago?

Poch had put several excellent performance against top tactical teams in Europe and England that I hardly think both these 2 can do.

 

[SCP]

Poch had put several excellent performance against top tactical teams in Europe and England that I hardly think both these 2 can do.

How do you know they can't do it? Not saying anything wrong with Pochettino, but he is working in England since when? 2013 or 2014, while the others work or worked in different football environments, both also at clubs where every season they have to sell their best players, even worse than Spurs must be said.

 

[aditya826]

It gives you better chances and less risks when you get big names. Mourinho with all the faults actually won 2 trophies and has us second on the league now. LVG was a past it manager when we got him. You need to differentiate between getting a top winner and a past it. I won't want Carlo here for example as I see him as a past it, but Allegri is a top coach tactically and will continue on the work Mourinho will leave.

You see them tactically aware, OK but I see both Tuchel and Jardim as the opposite. They are both very naive manager and got schooled on meeting a superior tactical team. Poch is much, much tactically aware than both IMO and even him still got questions on him.

You are referring back to my point again. You want them because they play gold football and you're 'wishful' thinking that they will win. They can or they can't, nothing is proving that gonna happen let's be honest. You're just hoping for the best, like wishing getting Mourinho out of sudden he won't become a pragmatic counter based manager. We all know what we were getting with Jose, a solid defensive team with good counter attacking and grinding results in multiple games. We also know what we are getting with Jardim and Tuchel. Don't put too much expectation to not get disappointed.

Okay so this would be my last reply for today since I'd have finished with my quota.

You seem to suggest that it is 'wishful thinking' in saying that Tuchel has a fairly decent shot in winning titles in big clubs when he has done nothing but played good football in his previous stints. Wishful thinking is making decisions according to what might be pleasing instead of applying rationality and appealing to evidence. I'd agree with I'm being wishful only if it is established that rational decisions only entail winning trophies and are the only tangible evidence to justify appointment of a manager.

There are other considerations that do come within the boundaries of evidence based analysis. Tuchel for example, not just plays beautiful football, but also is an extremely tactically astute manager. He coaches his teams in 5-6 formations and these tweaks are not just for playing entertaining football they are geared towards getting results out of a game. You cannot just discount these, just because he hasn't won a big trophy in small clubs and call it wishful thinking. Laporte wasn't wishfully thinking when he ditched Mourinho who had won 10 trophies in 3 countries for Pep Guardiola who won 0. There were some checkboxes that Guardiola ticked that Mourinho couldn't. These decisions aren't wishful thinking. These are carefully contemplated and strategic decisions which invariably won them so many trophies. I am not sure why that can't happen in any other club including United.

You also talked about risks. I'm not sure how you can call managers like Mourinho- low risks when he took Chelsea to fight relegation during a season they were supposed to be doing their best defending the title [defend against Leicester City that is.]. Certain risks are unavoidable, whether high or low, they don't just include the number of trophies in your CV. And our board were willing to take those risks and look where we are now.

It also seems that you conflate managers like Tuchel/Jardim/ Poch/Sarri with Giggs/ Neville/ Bosz. In the case of the latter it'd definitely be wishful thinking, but I'm not sure how you can classify shouts for the former as wishful thinking when you know tactical nous is a key ingredient in making title-winning managers. Isn't it?

I think where we agree is, that these modern managers will always have questions on them. But that brings me back to my original assertion that in football there are no guarantees. You don't win a lottery by getting a brilliant CV. The questions will always remain until the manager proves the weight of his CV at the new club. The CV is supposed to buy titles and not excuses to avoid the questions.

 

[africanspur]

Exactly. Man United were criticized even after beating arsenal at Emirates but klopp was praised for giving away 2 goal lead and drawing 3-3. Same with poch, imagine how media would have reacted had we drew to rochdale and Newport. United have higher expectation and no matter who the manager is ,our fans will criticize him.

The Man Utd manager is undoubtedly under more pressure than the Spurs manager, that is not worth arguing about.

However, I don't get this. Not only did we get past both those ties but I distinctly remember Man Utd getting knocked out by a championship team this season. I don't remember however Mourinho getting eviscerated, reports that he was about to lose his job because of the result etc etc. So I'm a bit unsure of exactly how the media would have reacted to drawing with Rochdale, considering their reaction to losing vs Bristol City was pretty normal.

 

[dove]

Very good post, i enjoyed reading that. I agree with everything you've said. I think when we appoint our next manager a risk needs to be taken, playing it safe with Moyes, LVG etc doesn't seem to be getting us very far. I would definitely welcome Tuchel, Jardim etc both did great work at BVB and Monaco last season.

How are these safe options? Moyes is a mediocre manager, everyone knew that apart from our club board. LVG was still stuck in 90s and haven't won anything of note since. These are far from safe.

 

[el3mel]

How do you know they can't do it? Not saying anything wrong with Pochettino, but he is working in England since when? 2013 or 2014, while the others work or worked in different football environments, both also at clubs where every season they have to sell their best players, even worse than Spurs must be said.

Till now I haven't seen anything particular from both in Europe to suggest that they can put a top class tactical performance against a superior tactical team. I know Jardim reached semi-final last season, but his team got schooled but the first superior tactical team that played tight and tactically as Juve. They defeated City who were far more naive than them at this point.

I think Poch has already moved several steps forward regarding this in his last 2 years. He still got some strange mistakes but overall he can put a masterclass in these big games, something I yet to see with both Jardim and Tuchel. Not saying that they can't do it in a future, but I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise till now. They will need to prove it.

 

[roonster09]

Till now I haven't seen anything particular from both in Europe to suggest that they can put a top class tactical performance against a superior tactical team. I know Jardim reached semi-final last season, but his team got schooled but the first superior tactical team that played tight and tactically as Juve. They defeated City who were far more naive than them at this point.

I think Poch has already moved several steps forward regarding this in his last 2 years. He still got some strange mistakes but overall he can put a masterclass in these big games, something I yet to see with both Jardim and Tuchel. Not saying that they can't do it in a future, but I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise till now. They will need to prove it.

Go and post what all tactical masterclass special one has produced since his Inter days?

You are just making excuses to downplay Jardim and Tuchel's achievements.

 

[SCP]

I know Jardim reached semi-final last season, but his team got schooled but the first superior tactical team that played tight and tactically as Juve.

They were schooled by a much more experienced team, coming from a much more demanding tactical level than Ligue 1, also the experience factor shouldn't be underestimated. They overachieved that season, as they underachieved this season, because they can't do the same as PSG, keep their best players and buy even more.

I already said before, don't know where Jardim will go, he is in his 5th season with Monaco, regarding Tuchel he already proved he can improve players, same thing as Pochettino, only difference is Pochettino is a follower of Bielsa, while Tuchel has different influences.

No one has to be dismissed, just different experiences, already said Jardim suits more the profile of Arsenal or maybe Spurs, looking at clubs like United probably other factors need to be considered.

 

[FootyGirl88]

How are these safe options? Moyes is a mediocre manager, everyone knew that apart from our club board. LVG was still stuck in 90s and haven't won anything of note since. These are far from safe.

I was talking more about their style of play, we never played with any risks under them and we don't either with Jose.

 

[el3mel]

Okay so this would be my last reply for today since I'd have finished with my quota.

You seem to suggest that it is 'wishful thinking' in saying that Tuchel has a fairly decent shot in winning titles in big clubs when he has done nothing but played good football in his previous stints. Wishful thinking is making decisions according to what might be pleasing instead of applying rationality and appealing to evidence. I'd agree with I'm being wishful only if it is established that rational decisions only entail winning trophies and are the only tangible evidence to justify appointment of a manager.

There are other considerations that do come within the boundaries of evidence based analysis. Tuchel for example, not just plays beautiful football, but also is an extremely tactically astute manager. He coaches his teams in 5-6 formations and these tweaks are not just for playing entertaining football they are geared towards getting results out of a game. You cannot just discount these, just because he hasn't won a big trophy in small clubs and call it wishful thinking. Laporte wasn't wishfully thinking when he ditched Mourinho who had won 10 trophies in 3 countries for Pep Guardiola who won 0. There were some checkboxes that Guardiola ticked that Mourinho couldn't. These decisions aren't wishful thinking. These are carefully contemplated and strategic decisions which invariably won them so many trophies. I am not sure why that can't happen in any other club including United.

You also talked about risks. I'm not sure how you can call managers like Mourinho- low risks when he took Chelsea to fight relegation during a season they were supposed to be doing their best defending the title [defend against Leicester City that is.]. Certain risks are unavoidable, whether high or low, they don't just include the number of trophies in your CV. And our board were willing to take those risks and look where we are now.

It also seems that you conflate managers like Tuchel/Jardim/ Poch/Sarri with Giggs/ Neville/ Bosz. In the case of the latter it'd definitely be wishful thinking, but I'm not sure how you can classify shouts for the former as wishful thinking when you know tactical nous is a key ingredient in making title-winning managers. Isn't it?

"Wishful thinking" doesn't mean they can't succeed. It means there's no proof they can do but you seem them doing good stuff so you hope with more resources they can do better and can move to the next step. No problem in thinking like that but the problem is talking like sure they will transform and become world beaters. They can succeed at top level, and can fail miserably at this level. Both can happen so let's not talk about them being a sure option for us returning to winning the league or anything. We just know that both will play good football here if we get them, anything more than that is still us hoping for them to move on to the next level with such a move.

People list Pep and Zidane as examples of such comparisons but 2 points of fact always got missed here :

1) Barca and Madrid got the best squads in the world. They just need a coach to get everything right with these players. You can see the level of the managers Barca are getting since Pep for example. They haven't tried to move for a big name at all. Even Enrique won 5 trophies a year with them, even though he's an average manager he's sure as hell no one will want him here. Both Barca and Madrid can afford risks whatever they succeed or not, because the worst they will get is a 2nd spot finish and QF in CL.

2) Both Pep and Zidane were under the eyes of the board for all the time. They were managing the B-team. They know as sure what their style is and if it will suit their players or not. They know everything about them. Doesn't matter if fans didn't know, the boards know them and that's the important thing. They both overachieved that's for sure, but they weren't a no name for the board. Both were a very calculated risks, and if they failed the team wouldn't have lost much. Both already got a great team and can get a top manager if both failed. Can you say this on any other team beside Madrid and Barca ? I don't think so.

Mourinho wasn't a risk. He had a single failure season after just winning the league the season before because he lost the dressing room not because of his tactics. It's like saying Liverpool took a risk with signing Klopp when the latter was fighting for relegation in his last season with BVB and stayed at last spot in the league for about half of the season before improving to just finishing 7th. One failure season doesn't make Klopp and Mourinho risky appointment. It's them failing for several seasons before you got them.

Finally surprised you put Sarri among the list of these manager. He's by far the biggest bottler of them. The guy is at his 60 and the biggest team he managed is Napoli. He sacrificed all the competitions this season for the sake of the league and still going to lose it anyway. He plays great football but he's a big bottler and you can't even excuse him for being a young manager like the others.

No problem in completing this discussion tomorrow after you regain your posts numbers.

 

[el3mel]

Go and post what all tactical masterclass special one has produced since his Inter days?

You are just making excuses to downplay Jardim and Tuchel's achievements.

I'm not going to get dragged for another Mourinho discussion. Loads of threads are there for that. I'm discussing Jardim and Tuchel here.

Mourinho can get sacked tonight. That won't change my opinion on both.

 

[el3mel]

They were schooled by a much more experienced team, coming from a much more demanding tactical level than Ligue 1, also the experience factor shouldn't be underestimated. They overachieved that season, as they underachieved this season, because they can't do the same as PSG, keep their best players and buy even more.

I already said before, don't know where Jardim will go, he is in his 5th season with Monaco, regarding Tuchel he already proved he can improve players, same thing as Pochettino, only difference is Pochettino is a follower of Bielsa, while Tuchel has different influences.

No one has to be dismissed, just different experiences, already said Jardim suits more the profile of Arsenal or maybe Spurs, looking at clubs like United probably other factors need to be considered.

That's the point. Jardim needs to prove he can deal with these superior tactical teams to him if he wants a shot at big club. At Monaco there's no problem losing to Juve, lack of experience and all this stuff, at bigger clubs, though, it'll be a problem. Moving to a big club means more expectations and less excuses. Whether a manager can deal with such a jump defines his ability to become a top manager or not. We'll see what Tuchel will do with such a jump.

 

[AshRK]

The Man Utd manager is undoubtedly under more pressure than the Spurs manager, that is not worth arguing about.

However, I don't get this. Not only did we get past both those ties but I distinctly remember Man Utd getting knocked out by a championship team this season. I don't remember however Mourinho getting eviscerated, reports that he was about to lose his job because of the result etc etc. So I'm a bit unsure of exactly how the media would have reacted to drawing with Rochdale, considering their reaction to losing vs Bristol City was pretty normal.

You yourself replied to your argument. Pressure can have immense impact and poch so far has not faced that compared to Jose.

As for to our defeat to Bristol, go back and check some posts from that period or read to what the media had to say and compare that to what poch got after those draws, you will understand what my point is. Jose was criticized immensely(rightly so), to some even questioning whether he should be let go. I am not taking anything away from poch, he is a fine manager who is doing a solid solid job at spurs but if you think media would have been calm after Manchester united drawing to rochdale then you forgot how lvg was laughed at after drawing to Wimbledon and one other lower league club. And funny even we progressed and won but still lvg and the club were bashed and made fun of after drawing to Wimbledon.

To cut everything short, pressure at Manchester United is much more for a manager than for a manager managing liverpool or Tottenham.

 

[roonster09]

I'm not going to get dragged for another Mourinho discussion. Loads of threads are there for that. I'm discussing Jardim and Tuchel here.

Mourinho can get sacked tonight. That won't change my opinion on both.

The way you defend Jose and casually write off other's achievements is just laughable.

Jardim won French league beating PSG, scoring more than 100 league goals. He then did superbly in CL to reach semi finals before his team was dismantled completely.

There there is Jose who played cowardly game against Sevilla and gets knocked out but you make excuse after excuse to defend him. It's all well and good to get behind our manager but from time to time it's good to be see from neutral perspective.

 

[SCP]

That's the point. Jardim needs to prove he can deal with these superior tactical teams to him if he wants a shot at big club.

No, because experienced teams with higher budgets normally win more than the others, beside that he won last season Ligue 1 against a stronger team with higher financial resources.

Majority of the managers don't start their carrers like Zidane, you know?

 

[el3mel]

The way you defend Jose and casually write off other's achievements is just laughable.

Jardim won French league beating PSG, scoring more than 100 league goals. He then did superbly in CL to reach semi finals before his team was dismantled completely.

There there is Jose who played cowardly game against Sevilla and gets knocked out but you make excuse after excuse to defend him. It's all well and good to get behind our manager but from time to time it's good to be see from neutral perspective.

Again I'm not going to talk about Mourinho here, positively or negatively. Sorry.

 

[roonster09]

No, because experienced teams with higher budgets normally win more than the others, beside that he won last season Ligue 1 against a stronger team with higher financial resources.

Majority of the managers don't start their carrers like Zidane, you know?

Exactly. It's like criteria to be big team's manager is winning CL with smaller clubs. Maybe big clubs should hire Di Matteo.

 

[SCP]

Exactly. It's like criteria to be big team's manager is winning CL with smaller clubs. Maybe big clubs should hire Di Matteo.

Already said Jardim hasn't the profile to manage United, but it has nothing to do with being naive or not winning in Europe with Monaco, its just the fact United is a final product club with loads of financial resources, if someone doesn't deliver after huge investments just imagine the meltdown here.

 

[L1nk]

I genuinely think, with him available, we'll be making a huge mistake keeping Mourinho for say another 2/3 years because I just don't see who's going to be available then for us, if Tuchel ends up at say PSG, then you can bet Enrique goes to Chelsea and Jardim or another young German manager will probably end up at Arsenal, then we're stuck with what, Ancelotti? The total lack of forward thinking of this club scares me sometimes.

 

[el3mel]

No, because experienced teams with higher budgets normally win more than the others, beside that he won last season Ligue 1 against a stronger team with higher financial resources.

Majority of the managers don't start their carrers like Zidane, you know?

I was comparing both them with Poch from the start, not with other big names at other big clubs, that even with the questions surrounding Poch, he still put several excellent results against many big games, while you can give him all the excuses Jardim and Tuchel are given. That's why I think Poch is much better tactically than both, even with my reservations about him.

 

[dove]

I was talking more about their style of play, we never played with any risks under them and we don't either with Jose.

Ah okay

 

[Varun]

Poch had put several excellent performance against top tactical teams in Europe and England that I hardly think both these 2 can do.

Why?

 

[el3mel]

Why?

You're too late to the party.

 

[SCP]

I was comparing both them with Poch from the start, not with other big names at other big clubs, that even with the questions surrounding Poch, he still put several excellent results against many big games, while you can give him all the excuses Jardim and Tuchel are given. That's why I think Poch is much better tactically than both, even with my reservations about him.

The only problem I see is when Pochettino leaves Spurs he probably will leave England imo.

 

[el3mel]

The only problem I see is when Pochettino leaves Spurs he probably will leave England imo.

Yes. He most probably will.