RedDevilRoshi
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Apologies if already posted but what would the final league table look like if the season was concluded via points per game?
It is force majeure, no result would be satisfactory to every party.We're 3 points behind 3rd spot, having had a much more difficult fixture list...
If the crisis had happened just before matchday 28, Watford and West Ham would be looking at relegation instead of Bournemouth and Villa.
Not relegating team is fine, but it's not fine for the top 2 in the championship. It's like denying them money.Yep, cancelling the rest of the season and awarding the CL places based on ppg or current standings would be fine. By "voiding" I meant what the poster I was responding to meant, which was forgetting this season entirely and basing CL places on the results of the 18/19 season. Which wouldn't be allowed.
I don't think there's any real chance of them not awarding Liverpool the title in that scenario though. Whereas not relegating teams is probably more likely. Essentially I think they'll try to avoid actions that leave teams worse off then they already were before the Coronavirus kicked in. Nobody really loses anything if Liverpool are given the title (apart from the small part of my soul that would have been chipped away, that is) but relegation has material consequences.
My guess is they'll try to wrap up the season if they can but if not it will be Liverpool champions, CL places decided by PPG, no relegations.
But that's something entirely different from your We do not deserve to be there anyway.It is force majeure, no result would be satisfactory to every party.
But that article, albeit written before, seems to say that if there's no hearing, the ban is happening after next season.I believe CAS can suspend the suspension and based on past cases that would seem probable - however in the past I believe this has been done at the initial hearing (basically an overview of evidence and a timescale and then an application to say we believe we have done nothing wrong and the case will prove that so please suspend punishment till final verdict
But will CAS get to sit to have that initial hearing before the deadline for teams being selected for next seasons CL?
My gut feel is city throw enough lawyers at the problem to get a virtual hearing or similar but no guarantees - so id say we still have a shot at automatic cl if the league is ended
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1264472/Man-City-Champions-League-appeal-coronavirus
Eh. We have less point than 4th. how in the world do we deserved to be there ahead of Sheffield who has 1 game at hand?But that's something entirely different from your We do not deserve to be there anyway.
Liverpool ...............2.82Apologies if already posted but what would the final league table look like if the season was concluded via points per game?
More or less the same, very few teams would see a change. Maybe if you had 2 less games and a higher win ratio, you'd go up, or something like that.Apologies if already posted but what would the final league table look like if the season was concluded via points per game?
We'd still be 3 points behind 4th, which is pretty much feck all considering there's 27 points left to play for, and we still have to play Sheffield as well, and the point still remains the same, we're almost on level point with 4th, having had a more difficult fixture list up until now..Eh. We have less point than 4th. how in the world do we deserved to be there ahead of Sheffield who has 1 game at hand?
Whats the alternative? this is the back up IF games cant be played before the end of the seasonCan’t believe people are happy to go with current standings. Makes no sense at all.
Honestly to me it’s clear. You either play out the season or you void it and the results don’t count. I just think it’s a mockery that you base it on the season to stand when there are still so many points yet to get. The best thing about football is that things can change quickly. A couple wins and we would be 4th so current standings mean very very little. It’s sensible to just reset.Whats the alternative? this is the back up IF games cant be played before the end of the season
If you void it who qualifies for the CL next year - presumably as the season is Void its the clubs who qualified last season as the CL is also void for this season as wellHonestly to me it’s clear. You either play out the season or you void it and the results don’t count. I just think it’s a mockery that you base it on the season to stand when there are still so many points yet to get. The best thing about football is that things can change quickly. A couple wins and we would be 4th so current standings mean very very little. It’s sensible to just reset.
Im in the same boat. Ending the season like this makes little sense. Its either void or we play it out.Can’t believe people are happy to go with current standings. Makes no sense at all.
With the City ban we might have a better chance to get in CL if we stay in fifth rather than potentially losing in the hypothetical playoffs.It's not easy to arrange a match without being called hypocrite. It's just fecking football ffs. You wanna risk 50 or so players and team officials just so you can brag about who's going to Europe.
Points per game. Or as it is is fine.
If you're on the wrong side of the luck then tough luck.
There's more to life than a petty football match. And we're not talking about 4 - 6 match. If the epl did it the whole championship to division 3 would want one. And all that risk just so that we can go to CL? feck cl. There wont be CL next season anyway. We're 5th. We do not deserve to be there anyway.
Look, I know we're all Manchester United fans. But if you want to argue it's not fair to get 5th because we could have won against Liverpool, city, arsenal, and all that it's clearly a very biased view.We'd still be 3 points behind 4th, which is pretty much feck all considering there's 27 points left to play for, and we still have to play Sheffield as well, and the point still remains the same, we're almost on level point with 4th, having had a more difficult fixture list up until now..
It's doable. But why risk it? Just for the sake of football? football is a non essential thing, it's just pure entertainment. They scrapped Olympics, they even scrapped schooling. Hell they even stopped cancer research, and here you are crying why they can't play football?With the City ban we might have a better chance to get in CL if we stay in fifth rather than potentially losing in the hypothetical playoffs.
The idea that it is impossible to organise a few football matches a week before an 38 rounds long season is laughable. It's either viable to do that in addition to the 10 matches played out, every weekend, throughout the country, for the next 10 months and or it's not viable to play football at all. A week shouldn't make a difference. If it does then football has returned too soon.
Same applies for every other league. If the league your qualifying for is scheduled to go ahead then there's no reason a playoff round cannot be organised. If it's not, then there's no point doing it at that point.
I fail to see how PPG is the sensible option.
The only solution I can think of for that is to have an extended league next year including the promoted teams, with extra relegation spots to return it back to normal. Though that would be a bit of a nightmare to make work as a) next season could also be disrupted and b) it would presumably require current PL clubs to agree to increased risk of being relegated next year.Not relegating team is fine, but it's not fine for the top 2 in the championship. It's like denying them money.
The FA should just announce this season over, used a one method of calcuations for all remaining games (ppg, average pts) and call it that. Point per game should be awarded to the remaining games and we see how the table lies.
If you're in the upward form then tough luck, you can't win it all.
There won't be football next season. Not unless miracles happen.The only solution I can think of for that is to have an extended league next year including the promoted teams, with extra relegation spots to return it back to normal. Though that would be a bit of a nightmare to make work as a) next season could also be disrupted and b) it would presumably require current PL clubs to agree to increased risk of being relegated next year.
Failing that, not getting promotion would suck for those teams but at least they wouldn't be starting next season in an actively worse position, which wouldn't be the case for teams who are relegated.
Risking what exactly? If there are conditions in place to start a new season, then there should be the same amount of risk in organising and playing out a few matches a week before the scheduled start. Again, you could even use the playoffs as a stress test.It's doable. But why risk it? Just for the sake of football? football is a non essential thing, it's just pure entertainment. They scrapped Olympics, they even scrapped schooling. Hell they even stopped cancer research, and here you are crying why they can't play football?
For what's it worth, there wont' be CL next season, and proably the season after.
You're kidding if you think comes June everything is all good and new season of football can commence.
The table barely changes, what's the difference between ending the season now and declaring these positions final and doing it by ppg?Liverpool ...............2.82
City.........................2.03
Leicester................1.82
Chelsea..................1.65
Man Utd.................1.55
Sheff Utd...............1.53
Wolves...................1.48
Arsenal...................1.43
Spurs......................1.41
Burnley...................1.35
Palace....................1.35
Everton...................1.28
Newcastle..............1.28
Southampton.........1.20
Brighton..................1.17
West Ham...............0.93
Watford...................0.93
Bournemouth..........0.93
Villa.........................0.89
Norwich..................0.72
Assuming clubs level on PPG are separated by goal difference and not head to head or another metric
Dude, there's 22 sweating people all over contacting one another. You need technical teams on the sideline, you need referees, you need security, you need FA officials, you need groundsman. You need bus driver, you need teams to hungker up and train together, you need police approval, you need a whole lot more than simply 22 man playing football. This is National class competition everything must be recorded for documentation.Risking what exactly? If there are conditions in place to start a new season, then there should be the same amount of risk in organising and playing out a few matches a week before the scheduled start. Again, you could even use the playoffs as a stress test.
if city's ban stands I think the main difference will be what they do with the last Europa placeThe table barely changes, what's the difference between ending the season now and declaring these positions final and doing it by ppg?
You're somehow managing to completely misunderstanding my posts.Dude, there's 22 sweating people all over contacting one another. You need technical teams on the sideline, you need referees, you need security, you need FA officials, you need groundsman. You need bus driver, you need teams to hungker up and train together, you need police approval, you need a whole lot more than simply 22 man playing football. This is National class competition everything must be recorded for documentation.
And if we play our game, every other team would demand the same, where do you draw the line?
Stop being selfish, it's just a game of football. So what if we're off by a few pts.
You fail to see that there wont' be football for a foreseeable future, and teams/clubs/lawyers/sponsors/tvdeals/etc can't wait that long in an uncertainty. There are players whose contracts runs out next season, there are players who needs to get their year end bonus, sponsorship needs finalized club positions to determine payoff etc.You're somehow managing to completely misunderstanding my posts.
At a point, when the appropriate bodies deem football safe enough to return, then there should be no problems in organising a playoff to determine the contentious positions in the league table. This is not United specific and I've explained multiple times that this should only happen if and when it's viable to do so, so I'm not sure why exactly do you insist on calling me selfish.
My point is that there are multiple options that are a better way do determine the final table positions than the PPG is.
Yeah fairness is a luxury right now. A team that's 25 points ahead could be getting shafted because that's just how unfortunate the situation is. We'll be lucky to find a solution that's viable, talk less of being fair to everyoneYou fail to see that there wont' be football for a foreseeable future, and teams/clubs/lawyers/sponsors/tvdeals/etc can't wait that long in an uncertainty. There are players whose contracts runs out next season, there are players who needs to get their year end bonus, sponsorship needs finalized club positions to determine payoff etc.
so to satisfy your idea about what's fair and what's not fair, you want to make it hell for every party involved.
What's so wrong with PPG? aren't that the cumulative result of a 30 games average?
If the government decides professional football can be played on the September 1st, and the FA goes "Oh that's great, we will have the playoffs on the 1st of September and we will start the league a week after that!", please explain to me how anyone involved is being put through some ridiculous notion of hell? Where is the difference? Are the 22 men less sweaty a week later? What are you talking about?You fail to see that there wont' be football for a foreseeable future, and teams/clubs/lawyers/sponsors/tvdeals/etc can't wait that long in an uncertainty.
so to satisfy your idea about what's fair and what's not fair, you want to make it hell for every party involved.
UEFA can decide qualification for their competitions on whatever criteria they want. In 2005 they changed their rules after the season had ended just to let Liverpool in it despite the fact they hadn't qualified.Doesn't make sense. Are they going to relegate teams based on coefficients too?
What would be a better solution than PPG? And why the strong opposition to it? Wouldn't it place us 5th?If the government decides professional football can be played on the September 1st, and the FA goes "Oh that's great, we will have the playoffs on the 1st of September and we will start the league a week after that!", please explain to me how anyone involved is being put through some ridiculous notion of hell? Where is the difference? Are the 22 men less sweaty a week later? What are you talking about?
What is wrong with PPG is the fact that there are better options available.
Have a playoff. The somewhat (but still less than PPG) dumb thing that English football has been doing for ages in the Championship.What would be a better solution than PPG? And why the strong opposition to it? Wouldn't it place us 5th?
Not entirely sure why you mention Liverpool, City and Arsenal.Look, I know we're all Manchester United fans. But if you want to argue it's not fair to get 5th because we could have won against Liverpool, city, arsenal, and all that it's clearly a very biased view.
We're 5th for a reason, we're shit for the majority of the season. Could have would have, but I won't cry if they finalized us as 5th.
Do tell me, which teams deserves a playoff.Have a playoff. The somewhat (but still less than PPG) "unfair" thing that English football has been doing for ages in the Championship.
Pts is certain, everything else is relative.Not entirely sure why you mention Liverpool, City and Arsenal.
Fact is that we're 3 points behind 4th, but we've played better teams than Chelsea and thus we have an easier run in, just as we have an easier run in than Leicester at 3rd. Suggesting we don't deserve more than 5th, because that's where we are now, when we look at the distance between the teams and the remaining matches, is bizarre.
No at least it’s based on this season’s results. Saying “let’s just do football manager from now on” is ridiculous when you know full well this season is an exceptional circumstance. Going off last season is ridiculous when both Spurs and Chelsea are already out. Why not go back to 2002 and reinstate Leeds. They are a past CL team just like Spurs.I’m sorry but that’s not more ridiculous than point per game are you having a laugh . Let’s just sack off real football and do football manager from now on. It makes an absolutely mockery of competition. At least with a reset we are all in the same position, not some teams being rewarded for part of a job done.
All decisions would be arbitrary. There's no avoiding that. There will be a cut off point. It will not be fair, there is no perfect solution. But anything you put out is still a lot better than finishing the season halfway through, applying PPG and pretending there's some sort of sporting integrity in that. It's like you'd build a house and then decide you won't put up a roof because the premium roofing that you want is not available anymore. Sure it's a bit shit if you have to put up a shit roof but at least you won't get wet when there's rain.Do tell me, which teams deserves a playoff.
Go on.
Illustrate how "Playoff" can be done in a week.
You do know that there are numerous teams across English whole division that wants and needs a play off right??? It's not just Manchester United. So City can still mathematically win the league (albeit close to impossible), should they get a play off against Liverpool?
Should Arsenal play wolves?
Should Sheffield play us? How's that fair? That our upward form being and harder fixtures being hinged on 1 playoff in a neutral ground?
There are 6 teams or more that can still technically be relegated, should we play off them?
You seem like less of a cynic and more of an emo...Given the fixture list and clear difference in opposition quality that the various teams have played to get where they are now, it's bizarre to suggest that 75% of the season is a fair reflection of 100% of the season and that we don't deserve better than 5th.Pts is certain, everything else is relative.
You said it yourself. "The FACT is that we're 3pts behind 4th"
The rest is subjective, being a cynic people can say that we actually lost more points against worse team. Where does that ends?