UEFA Champions League 2013 Semi Finals

[mswiss]

Bayern would absolutely kill us.

Just stop and think about what they just did to Barcelona, seriously.

Look back at Barca's games, that barcelona team has looked remarkably average this season. It's as if suddenly they can't press quickly anymore. They also don't seem to have as much movement off the ball

I think we would have matched up well against Bayern, like we did against Madrid, I also think that an injured Messi and pedro and an aging david villa aren't as good as our strikers.

 

[Sam]

Bayern won't beat this team over 2 legs.

------De Gea------
Rafael-Rio-Vidic-Evra
-Cleverley-Carrick-Anderson
--Nani--RVP--Rooney--

If only football was played on paper eh?

Look, we're a good team, with plenty of potential to be a great one. But right now, this Bayern team is a great team. A good few levels above where we are now.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Bayern won't beat this team over 2 legs.

------De Gea------
Rafael-Rio-Vidic-Evra
-Cleverley-Carrick-Anderson
--Nani--RVP--Rooney--

 

[ItsEssexRob]

There's actually somebody in this thread trying to argue Bayern would of battered us as much as they did Barca

Embarrassing even by your standards Rob.

Well theres also someone trying to argue you would have had a 50/50 chance of going through, thats not much worse.

They battered Juventus and Barca, its not exactly stretching it to imagine they would have battered United too. Unless you massively overate your team and think they are well ahead of Barca and Juventus.

Nothing is a certainty, after all we were expected to be battered by Bayern, but you can only use the knowledge given to you.

 

[do.ob]

Ok, 5 years ago already 5 years? blimey, i'm getting old.
Yep they would have invested otherwise, but those two transfers were gambles, Gündogan more so than Reus of course. Usually, you don't buy players of that class for that kind of money. But look at the team that won the title '11.

But Dortmund aren't your usual football club are they? I think it should be pretty obvious that they just didn't have a few lucky transfers.

Looks like what you're trying to say is that Bayern's foundation is a lot more stable because they have been around the top for decades.

 

[Skorenzy]

barcastuff ‏@barcastuff 6m

Bayern Munich scored 3 goals from 2 shots on target tonight #fcblive #ucl #fcbfcb

And wasn't there Arsenal some seasons ago that scored 1 goal without any shots on target against them? (Busquets og?)

 

[Hannibal]

For sure they won't beat this team as SAF will never select this fantasy first 11 of yours.Come on, are you really being serious here ? I sincerely hope you're not

So what would Fergie have changed in the team i selected? Jones over Rio or Buttner over Evra? People forget how mean our defence can be especially away from home. I cannot remember any team beating us more than a 2-goal margin in the KO stage of the Champions League since Milan did in 2007.

 

[Cevno]

Well theres also someone trying to argue you would have had a 50/50 chance of going through, thats not much worse.

They battered Juventus and Barca, its not exactly stretching it to imagine they would have battered United too. Unless you massively overate your team and think they are well ahead of Barca and Juventus.

Nothing is a certainty, after all we were expected to be battered by Bayern, but you can only use the knowledge given to you.

United are better than Juventus right now. Yep.

Better then Barca depends on which Barca you are talking about. Certainly better than the Messi - less flat Barca that turned up against Bayern, against Milan away and against PSG at home.

Look, they are a better team than us but you are overestimating the difference. And even ignoring that Margin's are very thin at this stage in Europe largely. The batterings are one-off more or less amongst the top 5/6 clubs.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Look back at Barca's games, that barcelona team has looked remarkably average this season. It's as if suddenly they can't press quickly anymore. They also don't seem to have as much movement off the ball

I think we would have matched up well against Bayern, like we did against Madrid, I also think that an injured Messi and pedro and an aging david villa aren't as good as our strikers.

Bayern and Real Madrid are not on the same level either though. You were a match for Real, I'd have called that as 50/50 before it started, Bayern would have been a totally different proposition.

 

[Dominos]

Their league is weaker than Bin Laden's heart condition.
Porto can boast of a similar record and they would still get destroyed by Everton. You mean this Bayern team would be in the Premier League and they would only concede 8 league goals all year?

Surely, you must be having a laugh!

Just no.

They didn't concede a single goal in two 2 legged ties against this year's Italian and Spanish champions, and have reached their 2nd CL final in succession, I think it's safe to say they've proved themselves outside of the bundesliga.

 

[Hannibal]

If only football was played on paper eh?

Look, we're a good team, with plenty of potential to be a great one. But right now, this Bayern team is a great team. A good few levels above where we are now.

If i put out the Arsenal team that destroyed Bayern at the Allianz Arena you would be embarrassed! Arsenal were close to beating them. Neuer didn't let go of the ball after Arsenal's 2nd goal - He was that scared.

 

[Sphaero]

Their league is weaker than Bin Laden's heart condition.
Porto can boast of a similar record and they would still get destroyed by Everton. You mean this Bayern team would be in the Premier League and they would only concede 8 league goals all year?

Surely, you must be having a laugh!

You lost all of your credibility, when you compared the Bundesliga to the Primeira.

This is the same league, which had three CL group winners and seven teams in total in the international KO stages.

The PL is the stronger league, but surely not by such a large margin.

 

[kouroux]

So what would Fergie have changed in the team i selected? Jones over Rio or Buttner over Evra? People forget how mean our defence can be especially away from home. I cannot remember any team beating us more than a 2-goal margin in the KO stage of the Champions League since Milan did in 2007.

So you think he would play Nani of all people ? Anderson who can't finish 90 mins and even Cleverley (the one who would have the biggest chance of playing tbh) ??? You really are crazy man.Have you even watch Man United at all this season ?

 

[Danny1982]

 

[strongwalker]

But Dortmund aren't your usual football club are they? I think it should be pretty obvious that they just didn't have a few lucky transfers.

Looks like what you're trying to say is that Bayern's foundation is a lot more stable because they have been around the top for decades.

Wasn't rating any of them. I was trying to explain that both teams success this year came for very different reasons that can hardly be compared.

And yes, Dortmunds transfers were lucky. They scored a number of hits and very few failures for not a lot of money. That isn't ment to be diminuitive, it is in fact a praise of their scouting staff and the coach.
I think even Kloppo would agree with me on both accounts. Bayern *planned* to attack Europe, Dortmund *hoped* for it.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

United are better than Juventus right now. Yep.

Better then Barca depends on which Barca you are talking about. Certainly better than the Messi - less flat Barca that turned up against Bayern, against Milan away and against PSG at home.

Look, they are a better team than us but you are overestimating the difference. And even ignoring that Margin's are very thin at this stage in Europe largely. The batterings are one-off more or less amongst the top 5/6 clubs.

Yes I agree United are better than Juve but not by a lot, and when you start making claims like Messi-less flat Barca that turned up in certain games you could also say the Rooney-less flat United that turned up against Chelsea in the fa cup. United and Barca full strength full teams you would favour Barca all day long, it's not a given of course but after thumping Juve and Barca I don't see why it is ludicrous to suggest they would have done the same to United.

 

[JP77]

Well theres also someone trying to argue you would have had a 50/50 chance of going through, thats not much worse.

They battered Juventus and Barca, its not exactly stretching it to imagine they would have battered United too. Unless you massively overate your team and think they are well ahead of Barca and Juventus.

Nothing is a certainty, after all we were expected to be battered by Bayern, but you can only use the knowledge given to you.

Bayern are world class, it's that simple.

Looking at it, they beat a Juve side which had just returned to the CL after a while away and that took it's toll on the players and showed in their performances, as good as Bayern were. They battered Barcelona because they have the perfect system right now to do that against a Barcelona side that has the worst defence out of every top side.

And no, that's taking nothing away from Barcelona. However, both them and Juventus play a completely different style to what we play. It's the same story with how the muppets said Madrid would batter us, despite us then going to Madrid and having the better chances and then getting it spot on until a red card decision sent everything into uproar. We wouldn't ever go out to play Bayern the way that Barcelona did.

Anything is possible in football, but that's not to say it's not fecking madness to claim we'd of got battered 7-0 like Barcelona did. You're seriously crazy if you think that actually. We'd of gone to Bayern with a completely different setup and system and if you think we'd of let them trounce us 0-3 at OT then feck me you don't know a great deal about Manchester United.

None of that's to say we'd of beaten Bayern. Who knows? Nobody fecking does. They could of beat us. We could of beat them. But I can safely say that we'd not of been dominated and beaten 7-0 or anything even close to that. Maybe we'll find out next season.

 

[Hannibal]

Just no.

They didn't concede a single goal in two 2 legged ties against this year's Italian and Spanish champions, and have reached their 2nd CL final in succession, I think it's safe to say they've proved themselves outside of the bundesliga.

Fortunately for my argument, United don't play in Italy or Spain. Arsenal scored 3 goals against them, didn't they?

Matter of fact, list Bayern's fixtures against English clubs in recent years and you would see an interesting pattern. Even when Bayern got through it was down to the away goal rule!

 

[Sphaero]

Wasn't rating any of them. I was trying to explain that both teams success this year came for very different reasons that can hardly be compared.

And yes, Dortmunds transfers were lucky. They scored a number of hits and very few failures for not a lot of money. That isn't ment to be diminuitive, it is in fact a praise of their scouting staff and the coach.

There is not much luck involved, when you have one of the best talent developer in the world in your ranks. Klopp knows exactly what players he wants and needs for his system and Zorc got him said players.

 

[SER19]

and so begins. an era of a new team our miserable fans can say we're a world away from. and yet none of them were saying it a few months ago. this seemingly super power has emerged from being a good solid team to being a force of unstoppable greatness in the space of a few months. whats the secret?

there are extremes on either side, but we have to be the most underrated big team in europe by our own fans. we do have masses of rational sensible ones too, but as a whole its embarrasing. you need only read the reaction to drawing real and remember the build up to that game to prove the point.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Bayern are world class, it's that simple.

Looking at it, they beat a Juve side which had just returned to the CL after a while away and that took it's toll on the players and showed in their performances, as good as Bayern were. They battered Barcelona because they have the perfect system right now to do that against a Barcelona side that has the worst defence out of every top side.

And no, that's taking nothing away from Barcelona. However, both them and Juventus play a completely different style to what we play. It's the same story with how the muppets said Madrid would batter us, despite us then going to Madrid and having the better chances and then getting it spot on until a red card decision sent everything into uproar. We wouldn't ever go out to play Bayern the way that Barcelona did.

Anything is possible in football, but that's not to say it's not fecking madness to claim we'd of got battered 7-0 like Barcelona did. You're seriously crazy if you think that actually. We'd of gone to Bayern with a completely different setup and system and if you think we'd of let them trounce us 0-3 at OT then feck me you don't know a great deal about Manchester United.

None of that's to say we'd of beaten Bayern. Who knows? Nobody fecking does. They could of beat us. We could of beat them. But I can safely say that we'd not of been dominated and beaten 7-0 or anything even close to that. Maybe we'll find out next season.

So if someone had said to you before the Bayern Barca game, Bayern are going to win this 7-0 you wouldnt have thought they were crazy?

Lets face it, everyone expected it to be tighter than 7-0, everyone expected Barca to at least score a goal, it was a crazy result, but not undeserved.

Now it was 7-0 everyone can be wise after the event and say how Barcas system fitted right into Bayerns plan, but what about Juve's system? who are slightly below United but still a top side. Bayern may not have thumped United, but its not madness to suggest they would have.

 

[Sarni]

Bayern won't beat this team over 2 legs.

------De Gea------
Rafael-Rio-Vidic-Evra
-Cleverley-Carrick-Anderson
--Nani--RVP--Rooney--

They'd be shitting it if they saw Anderson face Martinez, Schweinsteiger and Kroos, that's for sure.

 

[Hannibal]

You lost all of your credibility, when you compared the Bundesliga to the Primeira.

This is the same league, which had three CL group winners and seven teams in total in the international KO stages.

The PL is the stronger league, but surely not by such a large margin.

All i was trying to say is their league is weak and only Dortmund can challenge Bayern's supremacy. If you think any team on the planet can play in the Premier League and concede only 8 goals in 30 odd league games then you are deluded.

The Premier League boasts of an avalanche of strikers that would have breached the Bayern defence more than 30 times alone.

 

[paceme]

2010 Bayern and 2013 Bayern are like comparing 2005 Chelsea with 2011 Chelsea. In all likelihood United would have been embarrassed as Barca have been.

We would of got beaten, but have you seen some of the fecking defending on show over this tie!

 

[ItsEssexRob]

and so begins. an era of a new team our miserable fans can say we're a world away from. and yet none of them were saying it a few months ago. this seemingly super power has emerged from being a good solid team to being a force of unstoppable greatness in the space of a few months. whats the secret?

there are extremes on either side, but we have to be the most underrated big team in europe by our own fans. we do have masses of rational sensible ones too, but as a whole its embarrasing. you need only read the reaction to drawing real and remember the build up to that game to prove the point.

On the contrary in this thread you have an example of several people who vastly overate not underrate. I think all season long everyone on here has been saying that United were a level below Bayern and Barca, and this isn't exactly dispelling that idea, despite Barcelona being taken down a peg or two.

 

[Sarni]

All i was trying to say is their league is weak and only Dortmund can challenge Bayern's supremacy. If you think any team on the planet can play in the Premier League and concede only 8 goals in 30 odd league games then you are deluded.

The Premier League boasts of an avalanche of strikers that would have breached the Bayern defence more than 30 times alone.

Yeah. Juventus and Barcelona cannot score in 360 minutes against this Bayern side but they'd definitely be conceding a goal per game against Stoke, Sunderland, West Brom and Wigan. Amazing Premier League where teams like Bayern go to get relegated.

 

[adexkola]

We have the tools necessary to get back to the top. It's just the pesky midfield that needs addressing.

 

[Sarni]

So what would Fergie have changed in the team i selected? Jones over Rio or Buttner over Evra? People forget how mean our defence can be especially away from home. I cannot remember any team beating us more than a 2-goal margin in the KO stage of the Champions League since Milan did in 2007.

Anderson never starts for us and Nani doesn't really play all that much either.

 

[Hannibal]

They'd be shitting it if they saw Anderson face Martinez, Schweinsteiger and Kroos, that's for sure.

Except that the combination of Arteta, Rosicky and Ramsey destroyed the myth surrounding Martinez and Bastian on German soil. Surely, the Arsenal trio must have doped to cope with the Bayern stalwarts.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

All i was trying to say is their league is weak and only Dortmund can challenge Bayern's supremacy. If you think any team on the planet can play in the Premier League and concede only 8 goals in 30 odd league games then you are deluded.

The Premier League boasts of an avalanche of strikers that would have breached the Bayern defence more than 30 times alone.

*Cough* in 2004/05 we had only conceded 10 in 30 games in the EPL, not that deluded.

Bundesliga is actually the 3rd ranked league and comfortably above Serie A, I think you vastly underate it.

 

[Blair]

Bayern won't beat this team over 2 legs.

------De Gea------
Rafael-Rio-Vidic-Evra
-Cleverley-Carrick-Anderson
--Nani--RVP--Rooney--

This has got to be a wind up.

That team would get absolutely destroyed by bayern home and away.

Cleverley and Anderson who rarely get a game for united against some of the best midfielders in the world in Martinez/schweinsteiger/Kroos.

Some people on this forum really haven't got a fecking clue.

 

[Sarni]

Except that the combination of Arteta, Rosicky and Ramsey destroyed the myth surrounding Martinez and Bastian on German soil. Surely, the Arsenal trio must have doped to cope with the Bayern stalwarts.

Yeah, absolutely destroyed them in a game in which they barely saw the ball. You really should watch football before you make any comments. Arsenal won but that's about it, two defensive errors and complacency cost Bayern more than any brilliant Arsenal performance. And they also destroyed them at Emirates, didn't they? Bayern went out there thinking they already won it, it was the only error they made in this years CL. They learned their lesson which showed against Barca and Juve.

 

[do.ob]

It's amazing how people keep coming back to that Arsenal game which Bayern started with 3 away goals in their pocket. It might sound bold, but I think the game might have turned out differently if Bayern wasn't ahead by 3 goals before the start.

 

[Hannibal]

*Cough* in 2004/05 we had only conceded 10 in 30 games in the EPL, not that deluded.

Bundesliga is actually the 3rd ranked league and comfortably above Serie A, I think you vastly underate it.

And how did you fare in the Champions League that season? What was the quality of the Premier League then? You want to compare the City of then to now? Spurs? Everton? Please, don't make me laugh!

 

[Sphaero]

Except that the combination of Arteta, Rosicky and Ramsey destroyed the myth surrounding Martinez and Bastian on German soil. Surely, the Arsenal trio must have doped to cope with the Bayern stalwarts.

You seriously need to stop hanging on this ONE game and accept it as it was: An off game!

Or do you want me to go parading with the phenomenal performances of United vs. Norwich or Westham fecking United?

 

[ItsEssexRob]

It's amazing how people keep coming back to that Arsenal game which Bayern started with 3 away goals in their pocket. It might sound bold, but I think the game might have turned out differently if Bayern wasn't ahead by 3 goals before the start.

I keep saying that, but it falls on deaf ears.

 

[TheReligion]

They have a weakness at set pieces and corners. We are top scorers in the PL by those means.

 

[Sarni]

And how did you fare in the Champions League that season? What was the quality of the Premier League then? You want to compare the City of then to now? Spurs? Everton? Please, don't make me laugh!

PL was far stronger back then than it is now.

 

[africanspur]

Its ridiculous to suggest that Man Utd would or would not have bean beaten 7-0 because absolutely nobody knows. Nobody expected Barcelona to lose 7-0 over the 2 legs (when was the last time they lost by that margin and when was the last time Barcelona lost 3-0 at home?).

 

[Ludens the Red]

Look back at Barca's games, that barcelona team has looked remarkably average this season. It's as if suddenly they can't press quickly anymore. They also don't seem to have as much movement off the ball

I think we would have matched up well against Bayern, like we did against Madrid, I also think that an injured Messi and pedro and an aging david villa aren't as good as our strikers.

You've just described us......