UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Kinsella]

You clamp down on them avoiding it, ignoring what they do and being scared of increasing tax on people who accumulate so much wealth does nothing for country.

It depends on the rate. If it's too high the result will be a reduction in tax revenue.

Also, increasing the rate has little effect on the accumulated wealth you mention.

 

[esmufc07]

Isn't that about as wide as the gap has been over the last year? Can't see it somehow.

I’ve seen anywhere between 6 and 15 points.

 

[sun_tzu]

[

jeReMY cORbYN

The soon to be ex Leader of the labour party

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

This is just not true at all. People who earn 101k under this system even with the extra tax would still take home more than they would if they kept their income below 100k.

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Isn't that for the police to decide?

I think they're forgetting that they no longer have that guy who could fix it for them. Too soon? Is it feck

 

[Rolandofgilead]

Ok, I’m debating on social media with a friend of my aunt.

The guy will not read what I actually write and instead throws a completely irrelevant point back at me.

I merely mentioned that 88% of conservative adverts on social media contained falsehoods compared to 0% of Labours, which is a fact according to the investigation.

He said, do you believe pigs can fly, do you actually believe corbyn doesn’t lie?

Ummm, what?

 

[sun_tzu]

The marginal additional effort?

There are people earning 20k who work harder than people earning 150k... you can almost certainly guarantee the people earning £200k are likely not really working any harder than they did when they were earning half that... they are just getting paid a lot more. Plenty would even admit to working less hard...

Really cos I have a wage bill of about 6 million a year and you know what although I earn a good wage I know a work a fek lot more than anybody else

And as I sign off all their overtime (which I don't get ) I literally know that

Minimum anybody earned last year 57k... (Full time I had a part time person on 38k) Most other than me 175

I generally work about 80 hours a week plus emails etc in the weekends ... Nobody is given £200k plus... It's feking earned

 

[horsechoker]

Ok, I’m debating on social media with a friend of my aunt.

The guy will not read what I actually write and instead throws a completely irrelevant point back at me.

I merely mentioned that 88% of conservative adverts on social media contained falsehoods compared to 0% of Labours, which is a fact according to the investigation.

He said, do you believe pigs can fly, do you actually believe corbyn doesn’t lie?

Ummm, what?

So you were fine when we sold Jaap Stam?

 

[Pexbo]

The soon to be ex Leader of the labour party

If he doesn’t get a minority government in this election, which is unlikely, I hope he’s gone.

Partly because it’ll be funny to watch you struggle with political emotions you don’t have the capacity to understand as you try to explain to us how despite Corbyn no longer leading the party and despite you being a traditional Labour supporter you still get a chub in your pants when you hear Boris talk about how better off you will be under his government and you believe him... because Tom Harwood told you to in the fascist Beano.

 

[Traub]

The marginal additional effort?

There are people earning 20k who work harder than people earning 150k... you can almost certainly guarantee the people earning £200k are likely not really working any harder than they did when they were earning half that... they are just getting paid a lot more. Plenty would even admit to working less hard...

And why are they earning 200k now? Is it perhaps because they’ve worked themselves up to CEO of a company after helping to grow the corporation from a small/medium enterprise to a much larger corporation now employing hundreds of more people. This may seem like a contrived example, but why would anyone want to put in that extra effort of being instrumental in building a large organisation that employs hundreds of people when the government just takes most of the additional earnings? Note this is just based off the example of someone working a lot less now than when they earned half their salary - my personal experience is the more senior you get, the more responsibility and associated stress you have.

 

[Zarlak]

But at some point the marginal additional utility is not with the marginal additional effort.

It's not marginal though. Not even close.

 

[esmufc07]

Really cos I have a wage bill of about 6 million a year and you know what although I earn a good wage I know a work a fek lot more than anybody else

And as I sign off all their overtime (which I don't get ) I literally know that

Minimum anybody earned last year 57k... (Full time I had a part time person on 38k) Most other than me 175

I generally work about 80 hours a week plus emails etc in the weekends ... Nobody is given £200k plus... It's feking earned

Jesse Lingard

 

[Fluctuation0161]

In the past few weeks I've resigned myself to two things. Liverpool winning the league and the Tories getting a clear majority. It will make what happens tomorrow evening a lot smoother.

I'd prefer a liverpool double to the Tories getting in. Less people will suffer.

 

[Fiskey]

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

I wouldn't bother. What you are saying is clear and makes sense, but no one will believe it.

 

[Pexbo]

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

Would you like some more money?

No rich person ever: Sorry no thanks I’d rather sit on my arse because it’s going to taxed.

 

[esmufc07]

I'd prefer a liverpool double to the Tories getting in. Less people will suffer.

Liverpool can win the title for the next decade if it means we can stop Brexit and rid ourselves of the Tories.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Ok, I’m debating on social media with a friend of my aunt.

The guy will not read what I actually write and instead throws a completely irrelevant point back at me.

I merely mentioned that 88% of conservative adverts on social media contained falsehoods compared to 0% of Labours, which is a fact according to the investigation.

He said, do you believe pigs can fly, do you actually believe corbyn doesn’t lie?

Ummm, what?

Show him this
https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

 

[Segment]

Amazing - Come on lads, I don't think I can survive another years of cuts

 

[Segment]

Liverpool can win the title for the next decade if it means we can stop Brexit and rid ourselves of the Tories.

no doubt mate, I'm the same

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I have this argument with everyone at work albeit on a lower scale.

Tax isn't worked out in the way you're setting out. It's gradual so it still pays to earn more as you don't suddenly lose a large percentage of it that you wouldn't have lost had you not worked.

I go just over the 40k tax bracket and I don't suddenly get taxed a shedload more than my colleagues that try desperately to stay just under the 40k mark.

I am afraid that you have misunderstood what the marginal tax rate means. I am not in anyway saying that you get taxed on all of your income at the marginal tax rate - it means for the next £1 you earn your get taxed at that rate. So for every £ you earn between £100-125k your marginal tax rate is 60% because you loose your tax free allowance. Therefore my point is you are disincentivized to work past £100k as the tax is 60%.

 

[ZupZup]

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

What do you mean, stop working when they reach this barrier? These people are almost certainly getting paid a salary... not by the hour.

Would a footballer ask to be paid just £100k a year because any higher and the tax rates make it not worth their while? It’s all extra money and they still have to train 5 days a week and play the matches regardless... just like these people are still doing a full time job whether they get paid £100k or more.

 

[Fiskey]

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

Actually I did exactly this at a lower level when I was on a commission based job. I knew I could not do too much work and earn up to the lower threshold (somehwere in the £40ks at the time) and I valued my free time more than what I would be earning at the next marginal rate.

 

[Zarlak]

you miss the point. yes someone who earns £101k will take home an additional £400 from that addition £1k - but why bother when you get taxed at 60% and pay £600 in tax? Increase this further, even more people will stop working when they reach this barrier.

You really think that someone who would earn 120,000 after tax would prefer to instead earn less than 100,000? Extremely doubtful. You may get the odd case or two, but let's not pretend that the 1% are about earning less money and not more money.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It’s not even just that - you start taxing people who aren’t actually rich, you destroy their entrepreneurial spirit. You have a similar effect to the doctors who won’t work overtime because it negatively affects their pensions.

You put a brake on people working - why would you push yourself to work and earn more. People who earn £100-125k already have a marginal tax rate of 60%. Why bother, and just keep your income below £100k, add more tax on top of this and there is no incentive to earn more, and HMRCs tax take is overall lower.

Please, wont someone please spare a thought for those earning £100k who now may lose a modicum of motivation to earn over £100k because they will pay a slightly higher percentage on anything earned over £100k.

Please just show some empathy for these people too.

 

[Fiskey]

What do you mean, stop working when they reach this barrier? These people are almost certainly getting paid a salary... not by the hour.

Would a footballer ask to be paid just £100k a year because any higher and the tax rates make it not worth their while? It’s all extra money and they still have to train 5 days a week and play the matches regardless... just like these people are still doing a full time job whether they get paid £100k or more.

So many people are on commission based jobs or have the option to do overtime or are self employed.

 

[Pexbo]

Liverpool can win the title for the next decade if it means we can stop Brexit and rid ourselves of the Tories.

I’d buy a Mane shirt

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Lower interest rates, have inflation overtake wage increases, allow landlords to buy multiple homes without harsh penalties and inflate the housing market pricing, stop building houses and allow a culture of zero hours contracts and food banks to thrive - want to aspire to one day own your own home or save for your business? Feck you, cretin.

But damage someone's entrepreneurial spirit by taxing the richest a little bit more? Oh, now way Jack. We can't do that because it would make their lives difficult.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

If you do genuinely find that baffling do you put that down to you not understanding that subset or do you think that subset don't understand what they are doing

Maybe those people are spending too much time on Guido too.

 

[Fiskey]

Please, wont someone please spare a thought for those earning £100k who now may lose a modicum of motivation to earn over £100k because they will pay a slightly higher percentage on anything earned over £100k.

Please just show some empathy for these people too.

It's not about having empathy for them. It's about realising these people are highly valuable so as a society we want them to perform their highly valuable skill more, not less.

 

[horsechoker]

I’d buy a Mane shirt

I'd buy a Mane shirt if he kicked footballs at everyone trying to vote Tory.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Would you like some more money?

No rich person ever: Sorry no thanks I’d rather sit on my arse because it’s going to taxed.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ors-revolt-pension-tax-rules-sparked-row.html

Some of my work is with the NHS - tax(in this instances in relation to pensions) has stopped Doctors working.

are doctors, rich, money grabbers? Well you tax them, them stop working.

 

[Pexbo]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ors-revolt-pension-tax-rules-sparked-row.html

Some of my work is with the NHS - tax(in this instances in relation to pensions) has stopped Doctors working.

are doctors, rich, money grabbers? Well you tax them, them stop working.

So your answer earlier about avoiding paying tax by ploughing it into pensions instead?

Are we just going to end up with a really demotivated set of rich people? Like everyone will get up to £100k and then decide they can’t be arse to earn any more and the country will collapse because nobody will make it past £120k anymore?

Those desperately motivated kids who work their arse off to make something of themselves... £100k. Bang. Completed it. No point trying anymore

 

[Fiskey]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ors-revolt-pension-tax-rules-sparked-row.html

Some of my work is with the NHS - tax(in this instances in relation to pensions) has stopped Doctors working.

are doctors, rich, money grabbers? Well you tax them, them stop working.

Thing is it's not even revolting, it's common sense. Most people work for the benefit it brings them. There are some saints who work for the benefit of others, but they are few and far between.

 

[sammsky1]

Would you like some more money?

No rich person ever: Sorry no thanks I’d rather sit on my arse because it’s going to taxed.

Erm. I’ve done that several times in last years. Lot of PAYE or freelance consultant type people do the same as they approach the upper limits of their tax band: namely valuing free time more than extra effort for less pay if they go over the tax band.

The Corbyn £85k band will have a massive impact on some of the most innovative people in UK, and decease UK innovation output.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

What do you mean, stop working when they reach this barrier? These people are almost certainly getting paid a salary... not by the hour.

Would a footballer ask to be paid just £100k a year because any higher and the tax rates make it not worth their while? It’s all extra money and they still have to train 5 days a week and play the matches regardless... just like these people are still doing a full time job whether they get paid £100k or more.

I work as a contractor, and yes, I either stop working and spend some time with family or I pay everything over £100k into a pension so I don’t pay tax on it.

this doesn’t affect people as that level, as the marginal tax rate decreases after £125k once your tax free allowance has been eroded.

 

[Fiskey]

So your answer earlier about avoiding paying tax by ploughing it into pensions instead?

Are we just going to end up with a really demotivated set of rich people? Like everyone will get up to £100k and then decide they can’t be arse to earn any more and the country will collapse because nobody will make it past £120k anymore?

Those desperately motivated kids who work their arse off to make something of themselves... £100k. Bang. Completed it. No point trying anymore

These guys will probably move to the US or Hong Kong.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ors-revolt-pension-tax-rules-sparked-row.html

Some of my work is with the NHS - tax(in this instances in relation to pensions) has stopped Doctors working.

are doctors, rich, money grabbers? Well you tax them, them stop working.

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it? That was about then being handed bills to pay historical charges after pension rules were changed, not losing money on new earnings

Changes to pension rules in 2016 mean rising numbers of consultants are receiving large bills linked to the value of their pension. Some are having to remortgage their homes to pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...tential-threat-as-senior-doctors-work-to-rule

 

[Traub]

It's not about having empathy for them. It's about realising these people are highly valuable so as a society we want them to perform their highly valuable skill more, not less.

Good luck incentivising someone to become a heart surgeon where all the extra hours sacrificed studying and working are not worth the extra cash, as they may as well choose a much less stressful job where you’re saddled with minimal responsibility.

And the next step is to start taxing those below at higher rates to recover what you’re no longer getting.

 

[Pexbo]

These guys will probably move to the US or Hong Kong.

Like how all the Norwegians, Danish, Icelandic and Swiss can’t wait to leave their countries with their high tax rates and beautiful public services?

 

[Pexbo]

I work as a contractor, and yes, I either stop working and spend some time with family or I pay everything over £100k into a pension so I don’t pay tax on it.

this doesn’t affect people as that level, as the marginal tax rate decreases after £125k once your tax free allowance has been eroded.

Are you arrogant enough to think the work you turn down doesn’t get done by someone else?