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I'd like to see us go through with it so Brexiteers can see the full impact of British people not wanting to do all the jobs the low-skilled foreign workers do.
You need some sort of intelligence and self awareness to know you are wrong.I'd like to see us go through with it so Brexiteers can see the full impact of British people not wanting to do all the jobs the low-skilled foreign workers do.
Good point, well made.You need some sort of intelligence and self awareness to know you are wrong.
They will just look for someone to blame.
This exactly. I know too many of them as they don't budge.You need some sort of intelligence and self awareness to know you are wrong.
They will just look for someone to blame.
Damn foreigners not coming over here and doing the jobs we never wanted to do anyway.You need some sort of intelligence and self awareness to know you are wrong.
They will just look for someone to blame.
Yep. It's exactly what the Tories (well, Boris and his clan of idiots) said they were going to do.
That was an interesting article. It almost seems like rural Australia has their own eyes in the hills.It can be quite a shitty deal
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-law-leaves-backpackers-exploited-and-exposed
Also many of the EU workers that do this are skilled at it, lots has to be picked, sorted, packed and distributed in very small time scales to get the fresh fruit and veg on our supermarket shelves, lots of farmers prefer the regular returnees from the EU as they already have the skills having returned to the same farm year after year. WHV won't cover this at all.
Sounds like 1930s Germany.Boris is leading a new kind conservatism that embraces populist concerns and shifts left on economic policies. His key to real power is through the working class communities that he won over in the recent election so he has to enfranchise them in some way. He forced the Saj out to take over the exchequer so he can green light public spending without Tory economic ideologues getting in his way. I think economically his government will be more Keynesian than classical.
I think we'll see a lot of pragmatic political calculations around this, he'll fund the NHS and make a big song and dance out of it because he sees that as his key to winning the next election but he'll cut public spending further in areas with less electoral impact. Cuts to council budgets, for example, will be seen as permissible because the local councils tend to get the resentment for failures on their patch.
He has to balance this new approach with the traditional conservatism in his party and their traditional base but with his majority he has a lot of power at the moment. He also benefits from having no credible opposition for those the might feel disenfranchised to migrate to.
If it was just the wages then I’d completely understand, but it’s the harder working part that pisses me off. I was waiting on a contract for my current job for months, so I went and worked in a warehouse for a few months to bring in some cash and pass the time. It was 75% Polish and Romanians and they worked their asses off almost without exception, were on time, and were reliable. They had a laugh on breaks, but work time was for work. The older British workers were the same, and were class. The young British ‘workers’ though were largely lazy, unreliable and spent as much time fecking around as they did actually doing the job. They were obnoxious to people, damaged merchandise playing stupid games, and were about half as productive as the others. They sulked if they got told off, quit at the drop of a hat, and just moved between these kind of jobs any time the job center threatened to cut off their dole.Its a problem of micro vs macro. At an individual level, there are cases where foreign workers can drive down wages, for sure. If its happening in your back yard, its not unreasonable to be upset by it.
Britain desperately needs to find a way to get youngsters willing to properly engage in manual work again.
Thanks for sharing. Do you think the young British kids you saw would have behaved the same way if they were earning 50% more? I've got a theory that young British mess around in these jobs because it isn't worth enough to them, the difference between the pay and the dole doesn't make too much difference, and probably doesn't compensate for the faff of working (especially if you can occasionally get some cash in hand work while also claiming benefits). Is there a case for this or would any salary level not be enough to motivate them?If it was just the wages then I’d completely understand, but it’s the harder working part that pisses me off. I was waiting on a contract for my current job for months, so I went and worked in a warehouse for a few months to bring in some cash and pass the time. It was 75% Polish and Romanians and they worked their asses off almost without exception, were on time, and were reliable. They had a laugh on breaks, but work time was for work. The older British workers were the same, and were class. The young British ‘workers’ though were largely lazy, unreliable and spent as much time fecking around as they did actually doing the job. They were obnoxious to people, damaged merchandise playing stupid games, and were about half as productive as the others. They sulked if they got told off, quit at the drop of a hat, and just moved between these kind of jobs any time the job center threatened to cut off their dole.
It’s easy to think it’s just Daily Mail/boomer whining when you hear about ‘the youth of today’ and all that, but when you see it first hand it does make you wonder how the feck these industries are going to survive once you remove the foreign workers. Britain desperately needs to find a way to get youngsters willing to properly engage in manual work again.
I quite like the idea of non-military national service between 17-19, combined with on the job training. Take a year off school and then send kids to university at 19 when they've got a better idea of what they want to do, or if they want to continue working.National Service and regular thrashings with the cane would be the boomer answer.
Isn’t it £70 a week? Unless you’ve got kids etc. Even a low paid job is going to get you 4/5 times more than that.Thanks for sharing. Do you think the young British kids you saw would have behaved the same way if they were earning 50% more? I've got a theory that young British mess around in these jobs because it isn't worth enough to them, the difference between the pay and the dole doesn't make too much difference, and probably doesn't compensate for the faff of working (especially if you can occasionally get some cash in hand work while also claiming benefits). Is there a case for this or would any salary level not be enough to motivate them?
I watched a recent documentary on universal credit and it seemed like those who went into full time work on minimum wage £130 per month better off, which isn't great, especially if you can get the odd cash in hand gig.Isn’t it £70 a week? Unless you’ve got kids etc. Even a low paid job is going to get you 4/5 times more than that.
I used to work for a place that purposefully requested migrant workers from the recruitment agency when filling the picking lines on a temporary basis. It was for exactly that reason, they turned up and worked hard. Their British counterparts turned up late or hungover and fecked about all dayIf it was just the wages then I’d completely understand, but it’s the harder working part that pisses me off. I was waiting on a contract for my current job for months, so I went and worked in a warehouse for a few months to bring in some cash and pass the time. It was 75% Polish and Romanians and they worked their asses off almost without exception, were on time, and were reliable. They had a laugh on breaks, but work time was for work. The older British workers were the same, and were class. The young British ‘workers’ though were largely lazy, unreliable and spent as much time fecking around as they did actually doing the job. They were obnoxious to people, damaged merchandise playing stupid games, and were about half as productive as the others. They sulked if they got told off, quit at the drop of a hat, and just moved between these kind of jobs any time the job center threatened to cut off their dole.
It’s easy to think it’s just Daily Mail/boomer whining when you hear about ‘the youth of today’ and all that, but when you see it first hand it does make you wonder how the feck these industries are going to survive once you remove the foreign workers. Britain desperately needs to find a way to get youngsters willing to properly engage in manual work again.
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The education system isn't free at any level of study in Peru.I think it honestly starts at school level.
Those that aren't clever enough to do something they want or more likely are clever enough for something but it's born into their culture to despise intelligence and shit on those that work hard and instead embrace pissing about because they've got their dole at the end of the day.
I have to do it all the time as a TA, working with kids completely disenfranchised with the idea of doing well in school through whatever means, trying to reach them so that they realise it's okay to be good at 'something' rather than just mess around because they think they're shit and it's okay to be shit.
I have no idea what it's like in other countries but the education system here is failing those at the lower levels and is only interested in the really smart kids. The majority just end up not caring and then get in with the wrong crowd of likeminded people and you lose them then, they're effectively useless for the rest of their lives because they've no work ethic or desire.
Psychologically all the people dossing about between jobs and dole and working 1/8th as hard as foreign workers whilst causing 200x the trouble have been moulded to be anti-intelligence and anti-working hard. Something has to change.
Perhaps if we engaged them to have an open mind and focus on their own qualities, they might be less likely to tear strips off those that they're jealous of and less likely to blame their own shite lives on foreigners (let's face it, it incentivises them to be lazy even when thinking about the problem) because they'll have an awareness of where people are at and some empathy.
But that's a dream...
I think it honestly starts at school level.
Those that aren't clever enough to do something they want or more likely are clever enough for something but it's born into their culture to despise intelligence and shit on those that work hard and instead embrace pissing about because they've got their dole at the end of the day.
I have to do it all the time as a TA, working with kids completely disenfranchised with the idea of doing well in school through whatever means, trying to reach them so that they realise it's okay to be good at 'something' rather than just mess around because they think they're shit and it's okay to be shit.
I have no idea what it's like in other countries but the education system here is failing those at the lower levels and is only interested in the really smart kids. The majority just end up not caring and then get in with the wrong crowd of likeminded people and you lose them then, they're effectively useless for the rest of their lives because they've no work ethic or desire.
Psychologically all the people dossing about between jobs and dole and working 1/8th as hard as foreign workers whilst causing 200x the trouble have been moulded to be anti-intelligence and anti-working hard. Something has to change.
Perhaps if we engaged them to have an open mind and focus on their own qualities, they might be less likely to tear strips off those that they're jealous of and less likely to blame their own shite lives on foreigners (let's face it, it incentivises them to be lazy even when thinking about the problem) because they'll have an awareness of where people are at and some empathy.
But that's a dream...
But we could trick them into it back then as social media wasn't around to make them geniuses.Well we used to have the apprenticeship system where lots of the thick could learn a trade.
What age to you think it starts at? Judging from my own limited experience of my own and my partners kids and their friends, at primary school the kids are open to hard work and achievement, then at secondary school it all falls apartI think it honestly starts at school level.
Those that aren't clever enough to do something they want or more likely are clever enough for something but it's born into their culture to despise intelligence and shit on those that work hard and instead embrace pissing about because they've got their dole at the end of the day.
I have to do it all the time as a TA, working with kids completely disenfranchised with the idea of doing well in school through whatever means, trying to reach them so that they realise it's okay to be good at 'something' rather than just mess around because they think they're shit and it's okay to be shit.
I have no idea what it's like in other countries but the education system here is failing those at the lower levels and is only interested in the really smart kids. The majority just end up not caring and then get in with the wrong crowd of likeminded people and you lose them then, they're effectively useless for the rest of their lives because they've no work ethic or desire.
Psychologically all the people dossing about between jobs and dole and working 1/8th as hard as foreign workers whilst causing 200x the trouble have been moulded to be anti-intelligence and anti-working hard. Something has to change.
Perhaps if we engaged them to have an open mind and focus on their own qualities, they might be less likely to tear strips off those that they're jealous of and less likely to blame their own shite lives on foreigners (let's face it, it incentivises them to be lazy even when thinking about the problem) because they'll have an awareness of where people are at and some empathy.
But that's a dream...
We need savvy social media folk to create campaigns to trick them.But we could trick them into it back then as social media wasn't around to make them geniuses.
But we could trick them into it back then as social media wasn't around to make them geniuses.
Agreed. I was too immature at the age and we really need to have our head screwed on right then.It was better when they didn't know any better. Lucky for me I got identified as clever by my Primary School teacher, given extra work to prep for the 11+, which helped me get to a great Grammar School.
Yeah it does seem that there's a definite cut off and secondary school is a free for all but the actual psychological damage can be seen in primary schools.What age to you think it starts at? Judging from my own limited experience of my own and my partners kids and their friends, at primary school the kids are open to hard work and achievement, then at secondary school it all falls apart
Agreed. I was too immature at the age and we really need to have our head screwed on right then.
I had to sit A-levels 20 years later.
We need savvy social media folk to create campaigns to trick them.
Can I ask what you think is specifically xenophobic about this?Measure like these are only taken to appeal to the xenophobic and racist voters for the Cons.
Memes are the best thing ever invented.
They weren't invented with the stampede to interwebland though. Just digital versions of which all levels of intelligence can participate.Memes are the best thing ever invented.
I listened to an interesting radio show a few years ago about different teaching styles in different countries (bear with me....) with a Chinese and British maths teacher.I think it honestly starts at school level.
Those that aren't clever enough to do something they want or more likely are clever enough for something but it's born into their culture to despise intelligence and shit on those that work hard and instead embrace pissing about because they've got their dole at the end of the day.
I have to do it all the time as a TA, working with kids completely disenfranchised with the idea of doing well in school through whatever means, trying to reach them so that they realise it's okay to be good at 'something' rather than just mess around because they think they're shit and it's okay to be shit.
I have no idea what it's like in other countries but the education system here is failing those at the lower levels and is only interested in the really smart kids. The majority just end up not caring and then get in with the wrong crowd of likeminded people and you lose them then, they're effectively useless for the rest of their lives because they've no work ethic or desire.
Psychologically all the people dossing about between jobs and dole and working 1/8th as hard as foreign workers whilst causing 200x the trouble have been moulded to be anti-intelligence and anti-working hard. Something has to change.
Perhaps if we engaged them to have an open mind and focus on their own qualities, they might be less likely to tear strips off those that they're jealous of and less likely to blame their own shite lives on foreigners (let's face it, it incentivises them to be lazy even when thinking about the problem) because they'll have an awareness of where people are at and some empathy.
But that's a dream...
I said this policy appeals to the xenophobic and racist voters, the government look like their cracking down hard on immigration and people eat it up and warm to the tories. The Windrush deportations are also part of this.Can I ask what you think is specifically xenophobic about this?
I've seen this word banded around quite a bit today about the policy but am struggling to see the xenophobia there.
Agree with this to an extent.I listened to an interesting radio show a few years ago about different teaching styles in different countries (bear with me....) with a Chinese and British maths teacher.
Not saying the Chinese way of teaching is better at all but their teacher was shocked that we split the children into sets from a young age based on ability.
From her perspective, it was essentially telling the child from a young age 'you're shit at maths/ science/ English /whatever, we've kind of already given up on you and therefore... What's the point?
It was a powerful point which if I'm honest, I'd never considered before.