United and Liverpool driving "Project Big Picture" - Football’s biggest shake-up in a generation

Paul_Scholes18

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And helps smaller clubs financially with a David/Goliath fixture. Even the charity shield, we aint playing in it as we can get an extra game in malaysia
I can understand removing the charity shield in a season like this with Corona and everything.
Although a supercup is a tradition in many leagues and it is only one game. Teams want to win it, but do not risk things in it and it is like a friendly anyway at worst.
I don't care much when we are not in it, but always enjoyed it under SAF. Even Moyes and Mourinho getting a win in it was nice.
 

sun_tzu

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4 games less in the league...
Up to 5 games less in the league cup
Up to 1 game less with the community shield

10 games... if they then also said fek the champions league off
6 group games and up to 7 knock out games

Thats 23 games less a season...

25 if you include cl qualifying round

Chuck in a a few games in the winter break and a game or two at the start and end of the season...

And you have enough room for a midweek European super league with the clubs owning the league and TV rights... no uefa ffp rules etc

Thats got to be the long term plan from a financial perspective I think
 

Gio

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Absolutely vile from United and Liverpool to be honest. It's very very easy to see through this. So let's go through it........



So before we start the process of these new measures that over a long period will benefit us about 200 times more than the lower league lets try and buy them off with some payments, maybe they wont notice the absolute nonsense that will follow.



Ah yes, here we go. So basically us teams in the top six we want to paid more than the rest because we always finish in the top six, why should you get money when we always finish in the top six and you don't?

Yes, we should abolish the League Cup and Community Shield and instead play pre season tournaments in 100 degree temperatures in the middle east and Asia because more money for us of course. Less competitive football and more pre season friendlies, its for the good of the players...

Also do Man City know about this? cant see them approving of the League Cup being disbanded, that basically wipes out half their trophy cabinet.



Ah wait we better throw in a mention about the women's game so it looks like we give a shit.



How can we shit on the lower teams whilst pretending we're giving them more opportunity? I know lets relegate more of them and promote less of them but give them an extra game to try and save themselves, hopefully they wont see through the charade.



We better mention something about financial fair play so these proposals look fair.



Oh yeah, we better do something nice for the fans who see through the charade so let's mention something that's been spoken about for ten years but we secretly know is never going to happen, 'safe standing'. We'll cap their away tickets but don't worry we'll increase the prices to view the Premier League on TV so we make the money back in other ways. Worse case scenario we charge them 50 quid for a beer and hot dog instead of the standard 25.



Yeah so cancelling the League Cup and a later start date means we can to do important things like play more pre season friendlies half way across the world. It'll be great for the players but mostly those Sheiks will pay us shit loads. Not you though Burnley because nobody wants to see you.

And yes we want more loans, more and more loans. This way we can stockpile talent, keeping them away from smaller clubs and that way we get all the transfer money when we sell them.

Honestly, anyone advocating this wants to have a long and hard think, read through the lines. The thing with greedy bastards is they never stop, if something like this gets the go ahead how far do you think these bigger clubs will go to protect themselves and make more money for them. The next step would be league splits (similar to Scotland) so that we get 4 Manchester derbies a season and shit and before you know it, they'll be stating we should get a two tier Premier League.
Brilliant. Agree with every word.
 

Samid

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Premier League statement

We have seen media reports today regarding a plan to restructure football in this country.

English football is the world's most watched, and has a vibrant, dynamic and competitive league structure that drives interest around the globe.

To maintain this position, it is important that we all work together.

Both the Premier League and The FA support a wide-ranging discussion on the future of the game, including its competition structures, calendar and overall financing particularly in light of the effects of COVID-19.

Football has many stakeholders, therefore this work should be carried out through the proper channels enabling all clubs and stakeholders the opportunity to contribute.

In the Premier League's view, a number of the individual proposals in the plan published today could have a damaging impact on the whole game and we are disappointed to see that Rick Parry, Chair of the EFL, has given his on-the-record support.

The Premier League has been working in good faith with its clubs and the EFL to seek a resolution to the requirement for COVID-19 rescue funding.

This work will continue.
 

Cloud7

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After doing so well with their corona virus response, especially in comparison to say Liverpool, whose initial response was a disgrace, United really are coming across like absolute menaces this last couple of days.
It always did seem too good to be true, and too good to last. United are as corporate as football clubs come these days.

One of the funniest things about this is that they released that puff piece about Woody being one of the people that stood up and said they shouldn't charge those PPV matches, only for the vote count to come out and show that Leicester were the only ones that actually opposed it. And now this. Pathetic.

Those two decisions are far more disgusting than anything transfer related United have done under his tenure.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Soon they will want to close the league or stuff like that. Move games into Asia, America and other crazy ideas.
 

Glorio

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Mostly seem like good ideas, the alarm bells ringing in my head are more about Ed's allegiance to Liverpool!

It's already out that he's a Liverpool fan, and there must have been a lot of close working and long standing cooperation on this. Which is not bad in itself, in fact, I like it when rival clubs work together for the common good.

Unfortunately, in my mind's eye at least, Ed's caught in the middle and it worries me a bit considering one of my older mates is convinced he's sabotaging United from within as a scouse spy! :lol:
 

Stretender

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Absolutely vile from United and Liverpool to be honest. It's very very easy to see through this. So let's go through it........



So before we start the process of these new measures that over a long period will benefit us about 200 times more than the lower league lets try and buy them off with some payments, maybe they wont notice the absolute nonsense that will follow.



Ah yes, here we go. So basically us teams in the top six we want to paid more than the rest because we always finish in the top six, why should you get money when we always finish in the top six and you don't?

Yes, we should abolish the League Cup and Community Shield and instead play pre season tournaments in 100 degree temperatures in the middle east and Asia because more money for us of course. Less competitive football and more pre season friendlies, its for the good of the players...

Also do Man City know about this? cant see them approving of the League Cup being disbanded, that basically wipes out half their trophy cabinet.



Ah wait we better throw in a mention about the women's game so it looks like we give a shit.



How can we shit on the lower teams whilst pretending we're giving them more opportunity? I know lets relegate more of them and promote less of them but give them an extra game to try and save themselves, hopefully they wont see through the charade.



We better mention something about financial fair play so these proposals look fair.



Oh yeah, we better do something nice for the fans who see through the charade so let's mention something that's been spoken about for ten years but we secretly know is never going to happen, 'safe standing'. We'll cap their away tickets but don't worry we'll increase the prices to view the Premier League on TV so we make the money back in other ways. Worse case scenario we charge them 50 quid for a beer and hot dog instead of the standard 25.



Yeah so cancelling the League Cup and a later start date means we can to do important things like play more pre season friendlies half way across the world. It'll be great for the players but mostly those Sheiks will pay us shit loads. Not you though Burnley because nobody wants to see you.

And yes we want more loans, more and more loans. This way we can stockpile talent, keeping them away from smaller clubs and that way we get all the transfer money when we sell them.

Honestly, anyone advocating this wants to have a long and hard think, read through the lines. The thing with greedy bastards is they never stop, if something like this gets the go ahead how far do you think these bigger clubs will go to protect themselves and make more money for them. The next step would be league splits (similar to Scotland) so that we get 4 Manchester derbies a season and shit and before you know it, they'll be stating we should get a two tier Premier League.
A bit of a daft comment there. Who the hell are Manchester City?

Manchester United and Liverpool are two iconic and very powerful football clubs in England

They will need to work together to deal with the vague projects at Manchester City and Chelsea. I personally applaud them.

They clearly want to look at EFL lower league clubs better than it is now. Great.

I don't think this brief is the be all and end all but Manchester United and Liverpool must work together or else they will be wiped out by dodgy money from the middle east, that UEFA seem powerless to do anything about.
 

Flanders Devil

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Prem reduced to 18

So basically the team who come 3rd bottom will have to win 2 games to retain their place in the PL, essentially replacing the team who come 6th in the Championship play-offs.

16. play-off
17. Relegated
18. Relegated

1. Promoted
2. Promoted
3. Play off
4. Play off
5. Play off

16th vs 5th, 3rd vs 4th, final.
It's done in Germany works without any problems. The winner of the game between 3rd last and the playoffs in the championship play a game and the winner gets to play in the PL next season.
thanks for clarifying - I missed the bit about Prem being reduced to 18!

i was thinking of some sort of 6 team play off series!

@arthurka - out of interest,do you know roughly how often 3rd last stays up in the BL?
 

choccy77

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The big picture about this, is the big teams Like United, want less domestic games, so they can create more high profile and revenue making matches abroad and max out the fanbases of their money as it's the only way they can grow financially ultimately.

This is the reason behind it.
 

arthurka

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thanks for clarifying - I missed the bit about Prem being reduced to 18!

i was thinking of some sort of 6 team play off series!

@arthurka - out of interest,do you know roughly how often 3rd last stays up in the BL?
Well since 2012 once has the BL club been relegated. VfB Stuttgart was relegated to Union Berlin 2018-19..
 

Cloud7

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A bit of a daft comment there. Who the hell are Manchester City?

Manchester United and Liverpool are two iconic and very powerful football clubs in England

They will need to work together to deal with the vague projects at Manchester City and Chelsea. I personally applaud them.

They clearly want to look at EFL lower league clubs better than it is now. Great.

I don't think this brief is the be all and end all but Manchester United and Liverpool must work together or else they will be wiped out by dodgy money from the middle east, that UEFA seem powerless to do anything about.
Yeah United and Liverpool are some real plucky underdogs being kept down by the dodgy money aren't they?
 

Stretender

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There are some embarrassing posts here from so called Manchester United fans.

We are in an era where we are competing against nation states check PSG check Manchester City. We need to find a way of gaining our advantage back.

So many people on here probably opposed BSKYB's potential takeover of Manchester United back in late 90's because it was deemed immoral. Same people were probably happy that a country was investing in Manchester City.

Let's get real here. Manchester United is not a socialist football club for the working classes. It's operating in a world where it has to compete with state sponsored clubs like PSG or City.

Unless we think ahead and fast, we will be obliterated at the top table by these dodgy clubs.
 
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Stretender

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Yeah United and Liverpool are some real plucky underdogs being kept down by the dodgy money aren't they?
Unless you are not well versed with the realities of premier league finances, you seem like a simpleton who actually doesn't understand what's going on around them.

Wake up .
 

RUCK4444

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There are some embarrassing posts here from so called Manchester United fans.

We are in an era where we are competing against nation states check PSG check Manchester City. We need to find a way of gaining our advantage back.

So many people on here probably opposed BSKYB's potential takeover of Manchester United back in late 90's because it was deemed immoral. Same people were probably happy that a country was investing in Manchester City.

Let's get real here. Manchester United is not a socialist football club for the working classes. It's operating in a world where it has to compete with state sponsored clubs like PSG or City.

Unless we think ahead and fast, we will be obliterated at the top table by these dodgy clubs.
All it takes is for FFP to be implemented properly. Except it isn't because FIFA are inept and corrupt in equal measure.
 

Stretender

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All it takes is for FFP to be implemented properly. Except it isn't because FIFA are inept and corrupt in equal measure.
That is exactly my point brother.

FIFA and UEFA have shown that they have no interest or genuine intentions to enforce FFP.

The onus falls on us to protect ourselves. Some people need to wake up and see the storm surrounding us.
 

Reiver

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Presumably we are only behind it because its best for the club. On that basis I'm all for it. Every club, no matter their size, is only really out for themselves but its only the big clubs that get castigated for acting in that manner.
 

Hulksmash

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That is exactly my point brother.

FIFA and UEFA have shown that they have no interest or genuine intentions to enforce FFP.

The onus falls on us to protect ourselves. Some people need to wake up and see the storm surrounding us.
Our net spend in the last 5 years is higher then City and our Wage bill is also higher . Who are u kidding?

Bad work shouldn't be awarded, and the rule gives Immense Power to the top club 6
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Presumably we are only behind it because its best for the club. On that basis I'm all for it. Every club, no matter their size, is only really out for themselves but its only the big clubs that get castigated for acting in that manner.
Best for the club in the sense of making money for the Glaziers. Not cause it helps us win thing or play good football.
 

0161_UNITED

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This is extremely difficult to parse, there aren't enough details. Here's a take from a Guardian writer on it. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...all-pyramid-should-not-be-swept-off-the-table

I suppose one the best ways to analyze or evaluate this is by investigating who's in favour, and who isn't, because that's probably going to define who are the winners and losers.
  1. It appears some combination or all of the "big 6" clubs would be aligned on this, again the majority is that 6 of the 9 clubs with these enhanced "basically a supermajority" voting rights would be aligned on this.
  2. The EFL seems to be all-in to "right the wrongs" of 1990 and 92 negotiations where they gave up a share of PL profits - a decision that has haunted them for 25 years.
  3. The PL appears pretty adamantly opposed to this
  4. We haven't heard anything from the other PL clubs who are outside "the gang of 9" yet, to my knowledge
The Premier League:
Given that the Premier League seems to be opposed to it, there is plenty of of room to assume that this "top 6 voting group" are basically being given a "blank cheque" of (at this point) very vague privileges but one would assume that they would have almost total control of the PL in this deal. The PL would essentially be this voting block of the 6 clubs for all intents and purposes.

The Top 6, or "Gang of 9":
This would pretty much consolidate much if not all the power to control in the Premier League to these 6-9 clubs. I suspect, they would, in effect become the de facto "Premier League." Almost certainly, one of the first items on the list would be distributing revenue based on league position, or European qualification. Now from a United and top 6 perspective, this is something we've wanted for a long time. If Real Madrid and Barcelona benefits from getting a greater proportion of La Liga revenue, that gives them a competitive advantage over the English clubs. This is the opportunity to even the playing field with the European giants.

It's also clear these teams want less games. Apparently UEFA is hatching something in 2024. This may be paving the path for that, I won't speculate on European Super League, etc. It could just be less congestion so teams can focus on Europe and minimize injuries.

The Summer Tournament thing is interesting, but again very vague. I suspect it's more about seeing and positioning based on the relative success of the Nations League, where friendlies are replaced by something competitive, because it's interesting and a money making opportunity because people actually want to watch it.

Premier League clubs outside the Gang of 9, and promoted clubs the future:
This is where things get interesting... So, essentially you'd see something where all championship clubs (and those below) would benefit from the revenue share (and bundled TV deals with the PL). However, the elimination pf the parachute payment would mean that promoted clubs have to be much more careful with their transfer activity when they come up, because if they go back down, the parachute payments won't be there. I suspect we'll see much more restrained spending sprees by promoted teams, and much more pronounced fire sales when teams go down. That playoff spot for 16th is added incentive for poorly run PL clubs to get their act together. Whoever is in 16th (let's assume 17th and 18th were promoted clubs), should have a distinct advantage over the Championship clubs. It could create a group of 15 -> 16 clubs that are essentially the PL mainstays. Supporters of teams that are perennially floating around the relegation zone have reason to be both extremely concerned, but perhaps also optimistic, because the pressure on those clubs to get their act together would incentivize those clubs to be competitive, avoid 17th and 18th at all costs and make sure you can win the playoff. Does it make the PL essentially an even more closed shop? Certainly it seems that way. Although, in all honesty, it's kind of a closed shop today, isn't it?

The EFL:
So this is a "rising tide raises all boats" moment. Collective TV bargaining alone could be a game changer. Nobody, from the Top 6, to the teams that flirt with relegation, to Championship promotion, to the smallest clubs in the EFL are going to benefit if this whole house of cards comes crashing down. The biggest clubs need to smaller clubs to continue to be a pipeline to produce new, affordable talent, and ensure that the pool of upcoming talent across all levels of football continue. It will be a PR nightmare if we see mass club liquidations and redundancies, as well. Again, this looks an opportunity to "right the wrongs" of some decisions made in the early 90's whose effects linger to this day.

Now of course, the Top 6, the "gang of 9", and the settled, consistent PL teams are going to take advantage and consolidate their power, and get what they want to, it's natural. Steve Parish has a point (although it's rather short sighted, in my opinion) that the Top 6 and the Premier League aren't obligated to bail out the EFL. If the top 6 decided to secede and start their own league, and extend 12 invitations to a closed league, keep all the money for themselves and let the EFL collapse - I'd wager not one single team in England would turn down the invite to join that league.

All in all, I kind of hope this gets pulled off in some form or fashion, provided the details continue to get worked out. It's important to preserve the EFL and it's in everyone's best self-interest from the biggest clubs to the smallest clubs.

By the way, I'm not going to defend the Glazers, I certainly have quite a few complaints believe you me, but apparently Joel Glazer was pretty instrumental in figuring this out with Henry from Liverpool. It's common to take those criticisms and concerns over the top and buy into a narrative that these are evil, malevolent people. Some of you may truly believe that, and that's your right. If the alternative is watching mass liquidations and redundancies, and if you're like me, you know quite a few people who passionately support teams from the lower divisions, the thought of that coming to fruition is horrifying. We could lose something in this country that we'll never get back if that happens. The significant loss of the infrastructure that supports grass roots football and upcoming talent in this country will affect every level of football, from the Premier League to League 1, and the England, Welsh and Scottish national teams for decades if not a generation. If we are at a point that's a possible reality, which it seems like it could be, then I'm all in supporting this, and credit to Joel G. and Henry for this.
 

Jack - City Fan

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There are some embarrassing posts here from so called Manchester United fans.

We are in an era where we are competing against nation states check PSG check Manchester City. We need to find a way of gaining our advantage back.

So many people on here probably opposed BSKYB's potential takeover of Manchester United back in late 90's because it was deemed immoral. Same people were probably happy that a country was investing in Manchester City.

Let's get real here. Manchester United is not a socialist football club for the working classes. It's operating in a world where it has to compete with state sponsored clubs like PSG or City.

Unless we think ahead and fast, we will be obliterated at the top table by these dodgy clubs.
What makes you think this would hurt City? They'd be part of the super majority, benefit from the increased revenue share (more so than united) and be able to prevent new competitive owners coming in like with the failed Newcastle takeover. All this is is an attempt to screw over the little clubs and make the big guys more money. It's the gate revenue negotiations from 92 all over again, but turned up to 11.
 

Ludens the Red

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This is extremely difficult to parse, there aren't enough details. Here's a take from a Guardian writer on it. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...all-pyramid-should-not-be-swept-off-the-table

I suppose one the best ways to analyze or evaluate this is by investigating who's in favour, and who isn't, because that's probably going to define who are the winners and losers.
  1. It appears some combination or all of the "big 6" clubs would be aligned on this, again the majority is that 6 of the 9 clubs with these enhanced "basically a supermajority" voting rights would be aligned on this.
  2. The EFL seems to be all-in to "right the wrongs" of 1990 and 92 negotiations where they gave up a share of PL profits - a decision that has haunted them for 25 years.
  3. The PL appears pretty adamantly opposed to this
  4. We haven't heard anything from the other PL clubs who are outside "the gang of 9" yet, to my knowledge
The Premier League:
Given that the Premier League seems to be opposed to it, there is plenty of of room to assume that this "top 6 voting group" are basically being given a "blank cheque" of (at this point) very vague privileges but one would assume that they would have almost total control of the PL in this deal. The PL would essentially be this voting block of the 6 clubs for all intents and purposes.

The Top 6, or "Gang of 9":
This would pretty much consolidate much if not all the power to control in the Premier League to these 6-9 clubs. I suspect, they would, in effect become the de facto "Premier League." Almost certainly, one of the first items on the list would be distributing revenue based on league position, or European qualification. Now from a United and top 6 perspective, this is something we've wanted for a long time. If Real Madrid and Barcelona benefits from getting a greater proportion of La Liga revenue, that gives them a competitive advantage over the English clubs. This is the opportunity to even the playing field with the European giants.

It's also clear these teams want less games. Apparently UEFA is hatching something in 2024. This may be paving the path for that, I won't speculate on European Super League, etc. It could just be less congestion so teams can focus on Europe and minimize injuries.

The Summer Tournament thing is interesting, but again very vague. I suspect it's more about seeing and positioning based on the relative success of the Nations League, where friendlies are replaced by something competitive, because it's interesting and a money making opportunity because people actually want to watch it.

Premier League clubs outside the Gang of 9, and promoted clubs the future:
This is where things get interesting... So, essentially you'd see something where all championship clubs (and those below) would benefit from the revenue share (and bundled TV deals with the PL). However, the elimination pf the parachute payment would mean that promoted clubs have to be much more careful with their transfer activity when they come up, because if they go back down, the parachute payments won't be there. I suspect we'll see much more restrained spending sprees by promoted teams, and much more pronounced fire sales when teams go down. That playoff spot for 16th is added incentive for poorly run PL clubs to get their act together. Whoever is in 16th (let's assume 17th and 18th were promoted clubs), should have a distinct advantage over the Championship clubs. It could create a group of 15 -> 16 clubs that are essentially the PL mainstays. Supporters of teams that are perennially floating around the relegation zone have reason to be both extremely concerned, but perhaps also optimistic, because the pressure on those clubs to get their act together would incentivize those clubs to be competitive, avoid 17th and 18th at all costs and make sure you can win the playoff. Does it make the PL essentially an even more closed shop? Certainly it seems that way. Although, in all honesty, it's kind of a closed shop today, isn't it?

The EFL:
So this is a "rising tide raises all boats" moment. Collective TV bargaining alone could be a game changer. Nobody, from the Top 6, to the teams that flirt with relegation, to Championship promotion, to the smallest clubs in the EFL are going to benefit if this whole house of cards comes crashing down. The biggest clubs need to smaller clubs to continue to be a pipeline to produce new, affordable talent, and ensure that the pool of upcoming talent across all levels of football continue. It will be a PR nightmare if we see mass club liquidations and redundancies, as well. Again, this looks an opportunity to "right the wrongs" of some decisions made in the early 90's whose effects linger to this day.

Now of course, the Top 6, the "gang of 9", and the settled, consistent PL teams are going to take advantage and consolidate their power, and get what they want to, it's natural. Steve Parish has a point (although it's rather short sighted, in my opinion) that the Top 6 and the Premier League aren't obligated to bail out the EFL. If the top 6 decided to secede and start their own league, and extend 12 invitations to a closed league, keep all the money for themselves and let the EFL collapse - I'd wager not one single team in England would turn down the invite to join that league.

All in all, I kind of hope this gets pulled off in some form or fashion, provided the details continue to get worked out. It's important to preserve the EFL and it's in everyone's best self-interest from the biggest clubs to the smallest clubs.

By the way, I'm not going to defend the Glazers, I certainly have quite a few complaints believe you me, but apparently Joel Glazer was pretty instrumental in figuring this out with Henry from Liverpool. It's common to take those criticisms and concerns over the top and buy into a narrative that these are evil, malevolent people. Some of you may truly believe that, and that's your right. If the alternative is watching mass liquidations and redundancies, and if you're like me, you know quite a few people who passionately support teams from the lower divisions, the thought of that coming to fruition is horrifying. We could lose something in this country that we'll never get back if that happens. The significant loss of the infrastructure that supports grass roots football and upcoming talent in this country will affect every level of football, from the Premier League to League 1, and the England, Welsh and Scottish national teams for decades if not a generation. If we are at a point that's a possible reality, which it seems like it could be, then I'm all in supporting this, and credit to Joel G. and Henry for this.
Do you genuinely believe in what you’ve just typed here?
Let us not for a second even pretend the yanks at United and Liverpool have the best interest of the entire football system at heart. Make no mistake about it, in the long run this will damage the lower clubs.

What do you thinks gonna happen when the 15 player loan system is implemented? What are the long term effects of the top
six stock piling talent?

What’s gonna happen over a significant period when every season two smaller clubs are missing out on PL revenue?

What do you think the next step will be once these clubs get to make all the big decisions? How soon before goalposts start getting changed again?
I mean the insanity of it, imagine cancelling competitive league and cup games in order to spend more time on pre season tours playing meaningless friendlies. Who actually cares?

These are hard times for a lot of clubs and the fact United and Liverpool are trying to use it as an opportunity to take advantage of desperate EFL clubs is utterly detestable.
It’s the equivalent of giving poor people struggling right now large payday loans with insane interest rates and then pretending you’re doing it out of the kindness of your heart.
 

treble_winner

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It’s the equivalent of giving poor people struggling right now large payday loans with insane interest rates and then pretending you’re doing it out of the kindness of your heart.
And Manchester United are allying with Liverpool themselves for this proposal. What a time to be alive. :wenger:
 

foxedup

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Anyone thinking this is in the long term good of football is insane, it's created to benefit those at the top.
 

Spark

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Can see us pushing for this and getting relegated. (I jest...)
And Manchester United are allying with Liverpool themselves for this proposal. What a time to be alive. :wenger:
I see it more as two groups of American billionaires working together to take a strangle hold on English football.

Hopefully this gets thwarted. Who knows, if the Glazers AND Fenway don’t get their way it speeds up a sale of both United and Liverpool (1/10000 chance but one can hope).
 

Zen86

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Sunny Manc
Very sad. They slapped a £250m support package for the EFL in there to mask this for what it is, a power grab to ultimately get more money at the expense of the rest of the football league. It’s almost trying to profiteer from the situation.

Pretty sickening and I’m saddened that we’re leading it. Then again, why would I expect anything else from us.
 

MuFc_1992

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How would they get this approved? It would be completely ridiculous to even think the rest of the 11 clubs would vote for this idea. Also, this is the worst possible season for Woodward to suggest increase in relegation places based on how we've started the season.
 

Bugs Bunny

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Anyone thinking this is in the long term good of football is insane, it's created to benefit those at the top.
This is absolutely the case. If these plans are implemented it will be the death of the football pyramid in this country. No club will ever again be able to challenge the current top 6.

Although being spearheaded by Utd and Pool, I've little doubt that City are on board with this and if that's the case then I'm disgusted with my club.
 
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Wumminator

The Qatar Pounder
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Obertans #1 fan.
We had over 1000 pages in a Sancho thread calling the club embarrassing.
These proposals are infinitely worse for the club. We should be ashamed.
 

McGrathsipan

Dawn’s less famous husband
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It's all a money and power grab and I dont like it.
Too many changes all at once.

Why ? If its not a money and power grab then why ?
The fans will end up paying more to watch football.

The league cup should exclude premier league clubs.

We dont need more pre season friendlies.
It's up to the FA to look after grass roots football and lower league clubs.

We need a winter break!
 

esmufc07

Brad
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I’m so apathetic towards football these days, and this won’t help. Just a way for top clubs to solidify there positions and stop any club breaking in in the future.
 

pacifictheme

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This is extremely difficult to parse, there aren't enough details. Here's a take from a Guardian writer on it. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...all-pyramid-should-not-be-swept-off-the-table

I suppose one the best ways to analyze or evaluate this is by investigating who's in favour, and who isn't, because that's probably going to define who are the winners and losers.
  1. It appears some combination or all of the "big 6" clubs would be aligned on this, again the majority is that 6 of the 9 clubs with these enhanced "basically a supermajority" voting rights would be aligned on this.
  2. The EFL seems to be all-in to "right the wrongs" of 1990 and 92 negotiations where they gave up a share of PL profits - a decision that has haunted them for 25 years.
  3. The PL appears pretty adamantly opposed to this
  4. We haven't heard anything from the other PL clubs who are outside "the gang of 9" yet, to my knowledge
The Premier League:
Given that the Premier League seems to be opposed to it, there is plenty of of room to assume that this "top 6 voting group" are basically being given a "blank cheque" of (at this point) very vague privileges but one would assume that they would have almost total control of the PL in this deal. The PL would essentially be this voting block of the 6 clubs for all intents and purposes.

The Top 6, or "Gang of 9":
This would pretty much consolidate much if not all the power to control in the Premier League to these 6-9 clubs. I suspect, they would, in effect become the de facto "Premier League." Almost certainly, one of the first items on the list would be distributing revenue based on league position, or European qualification. Now from a United and top 6 perspective, this is something we've wanted for a long time. If Real Madrid and Barcelona benefits from getting a greater proportion of La Liga revenue, that gives them a competitive advantage over the English clubs. This is the opportunity to even the playing field with the European giants.

It's also clear these teams want less games. Apparently UEFA is hatching something in 2024. This may be paving the path for that, I won't speculate on European Super League, etc. It could just be less congestion so teams can focus on Europe and minimize injuries.

The Summer Tournament thing is interesting, but again very vague. I suspect it's more about seeing and positioning based on the relative success of the Nations League, where friendlies are replaced by something competitive, because it's interesting and a money making opportunity because people actually want to watch it.

Premier League clubs outside the Gang of 9, and promoted clubs the future:
This is where things get interesting... So, essentially you'd see something where all championship clubs (and those below) would benefit from the revenue share (and bundled TV deals with the PL). However, the elimination pf the parachute payment would mean that promoted clubs have to be much more careful with their transfer activity when they come up, because if they go back down, the parachute payments won't be there. I suspect we'll see much more restrained spending sprees by promoted teams, and much more pronounced fire sales when teams go down. That playoff spot for 16th is added incentive for poorly run PL clubs to get their act together. Whoever is in 16th (let's assume 17th and 18th were promoted clubs), should have a distinct advantage over the Championship clubs. It could create a group of 15 -> 16 clubs that are essentially the PL mainstays. Supporters of teams that are perennially floating around the relegation zone have reason to be both extremely concerned, but perhaps also optimistic, because the pressure on those clubs to get their act together would incentivize those clubs to be competitive, avoid 17th and 18th at all costs and make sure you can win the playoff. Does it make the PL essentially an even more closed shop? Certainly it seems that way. Although, in all honesty, it's kind of a closed shop today, isn't it?

The EFL:
So this is a "rising tide raises all boats" moment. Collective TV bargaining alone could be a game changer. Nobody, from the Top 6, to the teams that flirt with relegation, to Championship promotion, to the smallest clubs in the EFL are going to benefit if this whole house of cards comes crashing down. The biggest clubs need to smaller clubs to continue to be a pipeline to produce new, affordable talent, and ensure that the pool of upcoming talent across all levels of football continue. It will be a PR nightmare if we see mass club liquidations and redundancies, as well. Again, this looks an opportunity to "right the wrongs" of some decisions made in the early 90's whose effects linger to this day.

Now of course, the Top 6, the "gang of 9", and the settled, consistent PL teams are going to take advantage and consolidate their power, and get what they want to, it's natural. Steve Parish has a point (although it's rather short sighted, in my opinion) that the Top 6 and the Premier League aren't obligated to bail out the EFL. If the top 6 decided to secede and start their own league, and extend 12 invitations to a closed league, keep all the money for themselves and let the EFL collapse - I'd wager not one single team in England would turn down the invite to join that league.

All in all, I kind of hope this gets pulled off in some form or fashion, provided the details continue to get worked out. It's important to preserve the EFL and it's in everyone's best self-interest from the biggest clubs to the smallest clubs.

By the way, I'm not going to defend the Glazers, I certainly have quite a few complaints believe you me, but apparently Joel Glazer was pretty instrumental in figuring this out with Henry from Liverpool. It's common to take those criticisms and concerns over the top and buy into a narrative that these are evil, malevolent people. Some of you may truly believe that, and that's your right. If the alternative is watching mass liquidations and redundancies, and if you're like me, you know quite a few people who passionately support teams from the lower divisions, the thought of that coming to fruition is horrifying. We could lose something in this country that we'll never get back if that happens. The significant loss of the infrastructure that supports grass roots football and upcoming talent in this country will affect every level of football, from the Premier League to League 1, and the England, Welsh and Scottish national teams for decades if not a generation. If we are at a point that's a possible reality, which it seems like it could be, then I'm all in supporting this, and credit to Joel G. and Henry for this.
The guardian isn't behind a paywall so why share it here? They need the clicks.
 

georgipep

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Not far enough
Do you genuinely believe in what you’ve just typed here?
Let us not for a second even pretend the yanks at United and Liverpool have the best interest of the entire football system at heart. Make no mistake about it, in the long run this will damage the lower clubs.

What do you thinks gonna happen when the 15 player loan system is implemented? What are the long term effects of the top
six stock piling talent?
I really can't see the difference with the situation a few years ago. What were the long term effects other than Chelsea buying a lot of young talents?
What’s gonna happen over a significant period when every season two smaller clubs are missing out on PL revenue?
Well, the rest of the EFL will get 25% of the PL TV deal, which is more than 3x more than what they currently. So, in result, in my mind that's a much better deal for them. Or do you prefer to put the benefits for two PL clubs in front of the benefits for the 72 other clubs in the EFL?
What do you think the next step will be once these clubs get to make all the big decisions? How soon before goalposts start getting changed again?
I mean the insanity of it, imagine cancelling competitive league and cup games in order to spend more time on pre season tours playing meaningless friendlies. Who actually cares?
Most non-matchgoing fans (and they outnumber the matchgoing fans many times) do not really care about the Carabao (especially since they started naming it with silly commercial partner names) Cup and the Community Shield. I do watch the summer friendly tournaments and they bring a lot more revenues for the clubs.
These are hard times for a lot of clubs and the fact United and Liverpool are trying to use it as an opportunity to take advantage of desperate EFL clubs is utterly detestable.
It’s the equivalent of giving poor people struggling right now large payday loans with insane interest rates and then pretending you’re doing it out of the kindness of your heart.
I will give you that, I also agree 100% that this is coming now because of the dire situation the EFL clubs find themselves in. But that's how you make a killing in business. You seize opportunities.
 
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Most non-matchgoing fans (and they outnumber the matchgoing fans many times) do not really care about the Carabao (especially since they started naming it with silly commercial partner names) Cup and the Community Shield. I do watch the summer friendly tournaments and they bring a lot more revenues for the clubs.
I don’t believe that.

I like it as a competition, especially as the final is early on. It also give lower league teams the opportunity to play against PL teams, that’s important to fans. It’s has sponsorship for decades, it’s not a problem.

frankly I don’t watch any summer tournaments, and rarely watch a pre-season game. They serve a purpose, but hold no value to me to watch.

that’s what’s great about football, different opinions.
 

SilentWitness

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Everton
This would be rank and is just a way for the people with money to keep hold of that money. Saying that I hope it happens and ends up biting one of these clubs in the arse.
 

Munkehboi

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Great, every summer we will just have Audi Cups hosted in Dubai, American Express tournement in New York and Ali Baba mini league in Shanghai between July and August. We will also play Man City in all these competitions as well as twice in the EPL and twice more in the European Super League. If we're lucky we will also draw them in the FA Cup. Can't wait :rolleyes:.

Rather than these idiotic and greed motivated proposals, all teams should instead pressure FIFA and focus on ensuring FFP is upheld correctly with a fair and legitimate legal system but that's too straight forward, clean and non-profitable right?

Aboslaute joke these proposals, it's just mirroring everything that is wrong in this world today and it's no surprise it's the Americans at Man Utd and Liverpool that are leading the way. The idea that we are in partnership with Liverpool over this whole farce makes me sick.