It would likely benefit our rivals.
Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag
- Thread starter Nickelodeon
- Start date
It feels like some see the squad as a unit, all are one and the same. ”Players are lazy primadonnas” You are thinking of Rashford here? And only him?
Bruno cares and runs his socks off most games.
Dalot cares as well.
Mctominay is United through and through and is as loyal as anyone.
Garnacho, never stops trying.
Antony has been a flop no doubt, but you can’t fault his effort.
Maguire has also been a flop but is as proud as anyone wearing our shirt.
Mainoo has just started his senior career and is still somehow a shining light this season, you can not fault his character and desire.
Höjlund has just arrived, had a tough first season but seems like a very determined and hungry young player.
Martinez is a crazy argentinian who has as much fight in him as any other player in the sport.
Amad lost his marbles scoring a winner against Pool and got sent off. I think he is a proud United player and dying to become a regular.
Mount is an odd signing, especially considering his injury issues but he doesn’t seem like a lazy primadonna at all.
We have a few players leaving this summer for different reasons, regardless of manager.
We need to improve our decision making regarding new players in, something i think the new ceo and sporting director will help with. No more quickly declining star signings for one.
It is hard for me to see any clear advantage too keep EtH. We are miles away from clicking as a team and good things will happen with the organisation and squad either way.
Bruno cares and runs his socks off most games.
Dalot cares as well.
Mctominay is United through and through and is as loyal as anyone.
Garnacho, never stops trying.
Antony has been a flop no doubt, but you can’t fault his effort.
Maguire has also been a flop but is as proud as anyone wearing our shirt.
Mainoo has just started his senior career and is still somehow a shining light this season, you can not fault his character and desire.
Höjlund has just arrived, had a tough first season but seems like a very determined and hungry young player.
Martinez is a crazy argentinian who has as much fight in him as any other player in the sport.
Amad lost his marbles scoring a winner against Pool and got sent off. I think he is a proud United player and dying to become a regular.
Mount is an odd signing, especially considering his injury issues but he doesn’t seem like a lazy primadonna at all.
We have a few players leaving this summer for different reasons, regardless of manager.
We need to improve our decision making regarding new players in, something i think the new ceo and sporting director will help with. No more quickly declining star signings for one.
It is hard for me to see any clear advantage too keep EtH. We are miles away from clicking as a team and good things will happen with the organisation and squad either way.
To a degree where some results could be excused, yes but not the unraveling of the whole season and us finishing 8th and going out of the champions league at group stage. And I don't even think it could be considered an excuse especially if it's related to any of the coaching/training methods - we don't have the knowledge but there's no reason it couldn't happen again. What's galling is despite all of this, the manager has continued to persist with suicidal tactics that have only meant our defence is constantly stretched and at risk for more injuries through last ditch challenges/interventions. Most of our injuries have also been at the back so that still doesn't explain how poor we've been going forward have scored among the lowest number of goals, likely even lower than van Gaal's attritional season. I might even be willing to be sympathetic to Ten Hag if he admitted the number of shots on goal we were conceding was a problem or his tactics weren't working - but nope, it's all referees/VAR, injuries and players not following his instructions.
So where did you predict United to finish in the league?
You do wonder if SAF has ever had regrets saying about supporting the manager. That one phrase has been a bit of a millstone around our necks. Not that we have not sacked managers, but people, especially ex players are treated it as some sort of sacrilege.
I think it’s just more you don’t want to see it honestly because it quite clearly explains why we regressed so much. if anything we actually exceeded expectation last season because Rashford had a purple patch but he was never going to keep that going.
Is English not your first language? Because Top 8 is only reference to the top 8 positions. Nothing more. I just thought it would be a struggle for us to finish within the top 8 positions.
If sacking somebody is the right decision you do it. They seem for have forgotten we dismissed five managers from Sir Matt Busby until we got SAF in.
Suppose 2 things would be
1) that he’ll get to continue the development of Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund
2) if he stays the players might think they can’t keep getting managers sacked at will
Not that I think either is a solid enough reason to keep him
Wait, are we now being told that it was expected at the start of the season for Spurs (after losing Kane) and Villa to finish comfortably above us and finishing in the top 8 was realistic? That’s just rewriting expectations and history.
Forget competing or winning the title, the minimum expectations were finishing in the top 4 and we’re miles off it.
Forget competing or winning the title, the minimum expectations were finishing in the top 4 and we’re miles off it.
But only Rashford, Shaw and Dalot have survived multiple sackings (Martial and Lindelof leaving regardless).
Genuinely think people need to be more worried about what Mainoo Garnacho and Hojlund could end up like if they're exposed to more ETH next season. More of the same intensity levels in matches and training, while also being so heavily relied on they start every game. Repeat muscle injuries have happened to Shaw, Casemiro and Mount this season, who knows who could be next.
Ok so we can agree there has been an impact and it’s fair to say then we just disagree over the severity of that impact?
I would argue that the drop down from having Shaw or Malacia to any of Lindelof, AWB, Dalot or Amrabat playing there is monumental and causes significant structural and tactical problems at LB. It decreases the defensive stability, the ability to progress out from the back. This also hampers our ability to attack down the left hand side as it limits our overlapping play and also impacts our midfield as we have no one happy to tuck inside to form a LCB or LDM role.
As for the persistence the only solution I could see is to drop deeper, close the gap and play counter attacking football that we are trying to get away from. Do you have an alternative solution?
Do you agree with the above at all?
Well yeah but it’s the culture of the club and most of football now. If players turn on a manager he’s generally done. I think backing a manager through it forces players to either like it or lump it
I don’t know if ETH is the best manager for them either, but he’s the manager who’ll likely know them best atm
This is the posting equivalenylt of waving an imaginary yellow card and not needed.
In my opinion the biggest issue to fix is the sporting structure and recruitment (and really reduce manager's control). If we do that and make good signings and have a fit squad and ETH is still stinking out the joint then get rid of him middle of next season. I am willing to give ETH the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't become a bad manager overnight. And we also need to send a message to the likes of Sancho that you can't just down tools and think you'll outlast the manager.
So you can just make up hypotheticals to try prove your point? They've been heavily relied upon and played a high intensity and not had repeat muscle injuries. Ten Hag has regularly protected both Mainoo and Hojlund by subbing them and Garnacho doesn't seem like he ever wants to be subbed. Unless you think we'll sign no one in midfield or a back up striker, because we'll likely be playing far less games, I don't see how your point has any basis.
Either that, or only you and Ten Hag can see it. Even his biggest defenders do not agree with it becuse frankly, it's ridiculous. I take it also finishing dead last in an easy CL group was expected as well as he can't do better with this squad.
For me, Ten Hag shall be sacked for the following reasons:
1. as a starter, he downplayed United's history to give himself leeway with his erroneous "back to back FA Cup final" remark and saying that "losing 4 league games since January is not a lot". It was the same thing Van Gaal ("United fans need to accept reality") and Mourinho ("I knocked out Man Utd in UCL a lot!") did before they left - psychologically distancing themselves from the club to protect their own stock. This alone shows a disrepect to our club is a sackable offence alone for me.
2. He is very slow at making changes when things don't go in out way in games - often stunned and petrified. It is not a quality for top managers. We rarely tactically outclassed our opponents in games, we usually win games with individual brillance only (from like of Rashford last season, McTominay, Bruno and Hojlund this season)
3. Our players are VERY poorly drilled and his end-to-end basketball tactic is very wrong.
4. His transfers are rubbish, often very nepotistic and myopic. Often obsessed with players he spotted in person in Eredivisie (Malacia, Antony, Onana Armabat and Mount), and his transfers make no sense (buying Mount, a player with similar profile with vdb, when vdb didn't work; signing Onana, whose biggest asset is playing out from the back, and then to scrap playing out from the back)
5. Very poor season management (like playing first XI against low division clubs after World Cup) and rotation
1. as a starter, he downplayed United's history to give himself leeway with his erroneous "back to back FA Cup final" remark and saying that "losing 4 league games since January is not a lot". It was the same thing Van Gaal ("United fans need to accept reality") and Mourinho ("I knocked out Man Utd in UCL a lot!") did before they left - psychologically distancing themselves from the club to protect their own stock. This alone shows a disrepect to our club is a sackable offence alone for me.
2. He is very slow at making changes when things don't go in out way in games - often stunned and petrified. It is not a quality for top managers. We rarely tactically outclassed our opponents in games, we usually win games with individual brillance only (from like of Rashford last season, McTominay, Bruno and Hojlund this season)
3. Our players are VERY poorly drilled and his end-to-end basketball tactic is very wrong.
4. His transfers are rubbish, often very nepotistic and myopic. Often obsessed with players he spotted in person in Eredivisie (Malacia, Antony, Onana Armabat and Mount), and his transfers make no sense (buying Mount, a player with similar profile with vdb, when vdb didn't work; signing Onana, whose biggest asset is playing out from the back, and then to scrap playing out from the back)
5. Very poor season management (like playing first XI against low division clubs after World Cup) and rotation
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I said I think Ole will be the guy before a proper title challenging manager. Then we signed Ronaldo and couldn’t press anymore.
People love using "Klopp and Arteta got 8th" as an excuse which is a very rubbish one.
Klopp and Arteta got the 8th when they were trying to build some long-term highpress/possession tactics
ETH got 8th when he is trying his best to grind short-term results, the "end to end basketball" tactics is just a "short term fix" when he regards that our club lacks the players to implement a possession based tactic. I would have given him a leeway if we got 8th in the process of building a City-esque tactics, but it is a sheer incompetence when you are working for short term results (at the expense of long term development of the club) AND still get a very poor short term result
Klopp and Arteta got the 8th when they were trying to build some long-term highpress/possession tactics
ETH got 8th when he is trying his best to grind short-term results, the "end to end basketball" tactics is just a "short term fix" when he regards that our club lacks the players to implement a possession based tactic. I would have given him a leeway if we got 8th in the process of building a City-esque tactics, but it is a sheer incompetence when you are working for short term results (at the expense of long term development of the club) AND still get a very poor short term result
I think we cracked the code. Failing manager + Time = Sir Alex Ferguson.Ferguson 89-90 -1, did badly in the league but scraped through to the FA Cup final and then won it after a season rife with specualtion he was going to get sacked.
Just like Ten Hag this year, it's a sign.
Made up hypotheticals are the only basis for this thread and every pro-ETH argument.
At least that hypothetical is rational and extrapolated from the observation of muscle injuries striking down about half the playing squad during training sessions this season.
Except you're just ignoring the facts. He regularly takes Mainoo off quite early and Hojlund isn't immune from substitution.
There's plenty of reasons to criticise Ten Hag, but asking for people to give a positive and then just making something up as a reason to counter, just seems like you're not even interested in hearing an alternative opinion or an answer to the question you asked.
No I'm genuinely interested in reasons for keeping Ten Hag that are based in reality, because the vast majority of reasons in this thread are not.
The possibility that a different manager might not play Mainoo and Garnacho as much is one reason, definitely. But then if ETH gets the signings we think he needs that might also be the case with him as well.
I am a big ETH outer, and have wanted him out since the Bournemouth game. That said, people are now seriously willing to entertain the SOUTHGATE discussion. For me, that's a no-go. Southgate is not a United level manager. IF he's a serious option, then I'm seriously going to consider keeping ETH in for a season.
ETH can't be sacked until new CEO + DoF are fully up&running, obvious for me. Who will take the responsibility of recruiting new guy? Plus if we want a manager to think long term we can't be sacking managers every 2 seasons, or no other candidate will come with full focus on developing youth etc. knowing the owners want instant results. Between SJR comments about patience and Neville's latest change of heart towards ETH I think they're not sacking him this summer.
Well that's just 1 reason in a list of 5 and the least important so hardly worth focusing on
I don't think anyone is that attached to Ten Hag TBH, Ole and Jose had stronger supporters right until the bitter end - but the 2/3 year hire/fire cycle is definitely getting boring
It actually isn't made up, and was part of the report from the brazilian paper. That he maintains the same level of intensity in training thoughout the season regardless of fixtures. Also Hojlund is physically incapable of playing effectively past 70 minutes, we've seen that all season, and Mainoo is just a kid. Everyone else he runs into the ground.
What about ETH have you seen that suggests he's worth keeping?
Has he motivated the players?
Has he coached them to play a certain way?
Has he displayed tactical nous?
Has he made good signings?
Perhaps he's achieved good results?
In my opinion he's not done anything well. What is there to keep?
Has he motivated the players?
Has he coached them to play a certain way?
Has he displayed tactical nous?
Has he made good signings?
Perhaps he's achieved good results?
In my opinion he's not done anything well. What is there to keep?
yes to all, in his first season.
No one is expecting no injuries but a normal injury list relative to other teams doesn't seem an unreasonable expectation
If Ten Hag survives then he count himself lucky given the results so he won't get long to prove he was worth another chance - the new board will be fully in place by next season so in a better place to consider alternative managerial options if required
It's more about that there are no decision makers in place to make such a significant sporting decision
Ten Hag decided to terminate the Reguilon loan and also decided to loan Fernandez to Benfica, so clearly his decision making in this regard failed us from having adequate squad replacements in the event of injuries. He also decided that the injury-prone Mason Mount was worth investing in over an actual defensive midfielder who'd have helped and Mount has been a non-entity season and likely could be next one too if his injury history is an indication.
I don't think it is a binary decision between completely defensive football and leaving yourself fully open between midfield and defence which is pure chaos. We did some of it last season in the first half of it with some degree of control but presumably we've just decided to throw that out of the window out of arrogance. We shouldn't need to play completely defensive against teams like Crystal Palace and other bottom half teams - I can understand against some sides in the top 4 but there's no need to be completely open and unstructured against lower half teams and not be sensible.
We played hoofball that season too. Rashford being in the form of his life helped patch it up.
There are though. Ratcliffe, Brailsford, Berrada, Wilcox. Also Blanc has an input.
More than enough. If none of them have the balls to make a decision for the good of the club without foisting responsibility onto Ashworth then we are truly sunk before we've even left the harbour.
His first season is a prime example of a checkbook manager getting the bare minimum out of his squad budget. Even with that kind of spending, he lost in the quarters in Europa league and suffered terrible thrashings, including a 7-0 to Liverpool.
Except it's not. He broadly outperformed expectations, hitting 2 finals and getting a cup whilst coasting 8pts clear into the top 4.
Given the minority of fans and pundits had United in the top 4 at seasons start, it's very fair to say he overperformed.
Berrada is at City. There’s no CEO and no DoF.
We haven't played consistently well since the Carabao Cup final last season. Apart from the 4-1 win against an awful Chelsea side who were in disarray.
Sounds like a great plan. When you have a manager who cannot do anything right and make the club the laughing stock of football, the club owns him to sacrifice two seasons. In EtH we trust.
No, Berrada is on gardening leave. And due to start at United in July.
I'm sure he'll be able to smuggle out an opinion on whether to sack ETH or not before then as well.