Unpopular Opinions Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by KiD MoYeS, Feb 4, 2014.

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  1. Sep 4, 2015

    dannyrhinos89 OMG socks and sandals lol!

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    I have a horrible feeling Martial will be Danny welbeck mk2

    He will score the odd goal, he will be fast and strong but for the vast majority of the time he will be average.

    Of course I really hope he turns into the "new Henry" as people suggest he is
  2. Sep 4, 2015

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    If alien overlords enslave us all tomorrow, and cancel all the sports competitions -- save for Biathlon world cup, of course -- Zaha would be the more accomplished player of the two.

    He'd have at least 28 more minutes for United than Martial. ;)
  3. Sep 4, 2015

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Oh dear, what's all this that Martial has achieved that Zaha never will?
  4. Sep 4, 2015

    United again! New Member

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    No, because he should have cost 12m pounds and been a little cheeky youngster punt. I wasn't actually saying he is though - It was a tongue in cheek comment in reply to his comments. I've seen the phrase "The Dutch Zaha" before and I thought that "The French Zaha" was apt.
  5. Sep 4, 2015

    redevil2 New Member

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    You're so right! it's both disrespectful and ungrateful. Even they have become one or two years older, they would have still done the job enough to make things exciting for fans, if not challenging for titles. At the end of day, it's football and you move on when you're less productive for a team ambitious of achieving the highest possible. Calling them deadwood is so unnecessary and inappropriate. They have paid great part in bringing fans the joy and excitement and they don't deserve that!
  6. Sep 5, 2015

    Kazi Full Member

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    Absolutely this. Annoys the feck out of me.
  7. Sep 5, 2015

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Was arguably the best player on the pitch against Valencia in the champions league qualifiers, became a starter for Monaco at the age of 19, starting in the champions league round of 16 and quarter finals, and had a very good game (and got an assist) away to Arsenal in the champions league knockout rounds, scored 8 goals in his last 12 games of last season, made his national team debut for France at 19 (Zaha was 20 by a day :p).

    They aren't even close really. It's beyond retarded to even compare them. It's stupid to compare welbeck with him, let alone fecking Zaha. Stop being a negative cnut and have a bit of faith eh? This kid was wanted by Chelsea, Barca were interested, and many other top clubs as well. Most people in France see him as the next big thing. Though of course you probably know more based on your extensive football knowledge right?
  8. Sep 5, 2015

    The Purist New Member

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    Dislike the sentiment that Martial played well against us by people who obviously didn't watch either game with logic amounting to:

    Monaco won; therefore he must have done well.
  9. Sep 5, 2015

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    I don't remember how he played in the home game but he definitely played well at the Emirates.. Especially taking into account his age. Monaco killed you on the break, and while he wasn't the main part of that (think it was Carrasco or whatever who was the main threat), he still played his role and got an assist.
  10. Sep 5, 2015

    caid Full Member

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    Was he any good out of interest?
  11. Sep 5, 2015

    The Purist New Member

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    He really didn't mate. I was watching him closely because I was aware of his hype and the fact he came from Les Ulis (the club that produced Sanogo and Henry) so figured there's a chance we'd buy him. I was disappointed with him that night and truly didn't want us to invest in him after. He got the assist yes, but that was because of our defensive naivety (only one defender behind the half way line). It was a simple pass across to Berbatov after dribbling without any challenge. Truthfully, he was back pocketed by Bellerin on both legs.

    That said, I have seen him a few times for Monaco in the Ligue 1 since. He's showed qualities for his age but he's not the finished article yet. I just don't understand why you loaned Januzaj out and brought in this guy who, for me, is further behind in his development for a huge fee.
  12. Sep 5, 2015

    The Purist New Member

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    Not against us mate but has shown many glimpses of quality in Ligue 1. By the way, don't take my Januzaj comment above as an insult. When you read it, remember that Januzaj has shown many glimpses of quality for United.
  13. Sep 5, 2015

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Fair enough, I remember him catching my eye in that game but not really focusing on him much. Watching back his individual highlights from that game certainly weren't bad though.

    As for Januzaj... Not sure why we loaned him out but he wasn't ready at all to be starting, mostly due to him not being strong enough physically. Van Gaal gave him 4 starts in a row and he really didn't impress in any of them, and just played like a youngster basically. He's still rated highly, but he was pushed around too easily. Martial has the talent, but is also very fast and strong on the ball for his age. He handled Luiz and Silva well physically, playing as a lone striker away to PSG, which is no easy task. Of course, they got hammered in that game, but he did pretty well individually. Think he's ahead of Januzaj in his development, or at least is a lot more confident so can show his talent a lot more.
  14. Sep 5, 2015

    The Purist New Member

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    @bosnian_red Thats a fair comment. I think it's just for me, Januzaj and him are on the same level currently. Thats why I don't understand your deadline day dealings. I could be wrong though and this kid could explode.. I don't get paid to manage football teams like Van Gaal so all I can give is my honest opinion.

    He seems like a decent lad in fairness, will be interesting to see how he deals with the pressure.
  15. Sep 5, 2015

    United again! New Member

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    How is being wary of potentially poor decision making in the transfer market being a "negative cnut"? Just because some choose not to blindly delude themselves into thinking this kid will be the beez neez because of his transfer fee and a few times kicking the ball around at club level? Settle it down a bit eh?

    If you are paying 20/30m+ for a player who's completed around 10 full games in his career then people have every right to turn around and say 'what in the actual feck?....' No amount of deluding yourself into hoping he'll be amazing goes any way to answering those questions.

    Of course we'll wait and see, but we have no recognized number 9 hold up striker in our squad and yet we've splashed out on this young kid. If you want to ignore that it makes little sense then fine.
  16. Sep 5, 2015

    redevil2 New Member

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    People who predict/hope young Martial will become an instant success are lying to themselves. First of all, he's going to have to adapt to a rigid philosophy. Secondly, he's in a foreign country trying to learn the language and gel with new team mates (quite a few of them are not the most experienced, in playing nor in winning trophies, to mentor him anyway); moreover, it's a new competitive league in which he's going to have to be on top of his game to be able to excel. These are just a few things he will be encountering. He's still young and learning and needs to be nurtured and protected (from physical players trying to target him for example), and not being given the burden of playing full game week in week out. He simply is too inexperienced to become an instant superstar and hero. Handling him appropriately we may have him for years to come. But like you said he can also be just average. I am not being negative but he needs time. Is all
  17. Sep 5, 2015

    redevil2 New Member

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    Fair enough observation as a rival fan. I believe Januzaj still has a lot of hidden (unexplored) talents and ability to excel (at times he looked like he's frustrated rather than not being good enough. I don't agree loaning him out is the best for him nor the squad.

    He will still be very useful in cups games and there are just so many games to play and cover for injuries etc. Your suspicion about the last minute signing is not totally unfounded. To loan out our own young talent and then bring in a very young record signing does not come across as a well planned strategy. But who knows. I hope he can cope and at least live up to some expectation but he can't be relied on as the main man. Neither can Depay be regarded as such.
  18. Sep 5, 2015

    Kostur Full Member

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    Oh boy, wasn't aware that it's this close. Obviously, fairly many variables and different factors counting in (no, for me 'but moyes tookl champinos lole!!!' is not one) but it's frankly shit to watch.
  19. Sep 5, 2015

    hobbers Full Member

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    Not a lot in it points wise but a feck ton in it in terms of performances against our main rivals.

    Would Moyes have ever been able to mastermind thrashings of City and Liverpool?

    Granted we seem to have developed a massive bogey team in swansea under LVG, but i'd sooner drop points in games like that than see more 3-0's at home to Liverpool and City.

    There wasn't a single game against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool or spurs last season where we were not either the winning team or the dominant team, the games we dropped points were due to smalling's red card, Mourinho's bus tactics and Lloris' heroics.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  20. Sep 5, 2015

    RedOldBoy Full Member

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    Just seems a bit strange. He prefers pace down the middle but doesn't mind using Mata on the wing. How long before he goes back to playing Memphis as a no.10 with Young on the left?
  21. Sep 5, 2015

    dannyrhinos89 OMG socks and sandals lol!

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    It's Unbelievable people think we are better under LVG than Moyes. That tweet just proves they are similar in everyway.

    LVG has an almost identical record but has spent £200 million extra too. What's even more better is the majority of new players that are doing well now are players Moyes bought or identified as targets.
  22. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Revisionism around here, it's rampant.
  23. Sep 5, 2015

    United again! New Member

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    He's an Arsenal fan.
  24. Sep 5, 2015

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    This is like the "Why is Rooney beyond criticism" remark. Do you really think van Gaal is considered to be someone that can do no wrong?
  25. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    I know?
  26. Sep 5, 2015

    prath92 Full Member

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    So you are crediting Moyes with Herrera and Shaw signings (I'm assuming they are the 'targets identified by Moyes' ) but adding the £55m that we had to pay for them as 'money spent by LvG'? If they were not LvG signings per se, then shouldn't the amount we paid for them be not included in the money he spent too?
  27. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    In my dream last night we sold Shaw to Liverpool in January for around £12m because LvG wanted to go in a 'different direction' for the LB spot. That was a most unpopular dream. I don't know why I feel compelled to share this but it was scary stuff.
  28. Sep 5, 2015

    Kostur Full Member

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    He has played well against them, especially in the away leg though.
  29. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    I watched both legs and don't remember him standing out. Maybe some watched him intently and genuinely took notice of him but I'm sure you know yourself; plenty are just trotting it out because they can. In saying I didn't notice him, I also wasn't looking out for him. I'm in no place to give a proper assessment. My standout memory is the first leg and Fabinho playing DM and having an excellent game alongside Kondogbia.
  30. Sep 5, 2015

    Kostur Full Member

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    Yea he wasn't a standout player but it doesn't mean that he didn't play well, which is what Purist is implying.
  31. Sep 5, 2015

    prath92 Full Member

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    Sack LvG for not delivering quality dreams unlike Fergie? :p
  32. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Oh most definitely. I'll be using this against LvG.
  33. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Oh I know. My comment was kind of tongue-in-cheek to be honest. Just because I didn't notice him means feck all. I was just saying that for everyone who genuinely did notice him, there's just as many using that match, that didn't notice him, because they can.
  34. Sep 5, 2015

    stevoc Full Member

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    And Solskjær has won it!
    Except for the fact we got turned over by nearly every half decent team we played under Moyes. Our only win against a top team coming at home to Arsenal when we actually defended like a mid-table team away and nicked a goal from a corner. Yeah apart from that very similar :rolleyes:

    Heres our record against the top 10 under Moyes, and it's fecking disgraceful. Compare that to our matches against the same teams last season.

    Those stats are misleading and don't really give us a true picture of things, like most stats they don't account for the context. Moyes racked up some of his wins in easy games against teams in the CL and League cup Van Gaal had only one game in either competition last season.

    LVG had to deal with the aftermath of Moyes failure, quickly reshape a broken squad in a new country and league in a very short time. And deal with probably the worst injury crisis in United's modern history.

    Yeah the football hasn't been great for the most part but we are a far better team under Van Gaal than we ever were under Moyes, it really is night and day.
  35. Sep 5, 2015

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    People really still think Moyes done on ok job? I thought we were way past this shit.
  36. Sep 5, 2015

    Speak Step up to my misogyny soapbox

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    He clearly didn't do an okay job, but I believe he got a rawer deal than van Gaal in taking over Sir Alex's direct squad - for a number of reasons.
    Obviously you can argue he should have been ruthless and made huge changes, but the same people who argue this were probably the same people who were annoyed that he dared to bring in his own staff. I think having the opportunity to reshape the whole squad has been a benefit for van Gaal, not a hindrance.

    But anyway, that's the past. They took on such different jobs that it's almost pointless to compare stats.
  37. Sep 5, 2015

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

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    I disagree. I think the job LvG took on was much bigger.

    Moyes had the benefit of taking over a team of Champions fully in tact who won the league at a canter, and the mission was to remain in the top 4 as an absolute minimum. LvG had to take over a side that had been mentally obliterated by David Moyes, finishing 7th, a good chunk of the squad were desperate to leave, and the aim was to get back in the top 4!

    LvG had to start the refreshing of the squad which Moyes didn't have the balls to do. When Moyes took the job, it needed a little bit of patching up. Perhaps 3 or 4 players from the off, with some players being phased out. But he brought in one to begin with, and it was not the player we needed, nor were any of the older heads phased out. They were first choice right until the end. By the time LvG took over, it needed overhauling.

    The two situations were completely different and cannot be compared. But I am certain LvG would not have finished 7th if he had succeeded Sir Alex.
  38. Sep 5, 2015

    dustfingers Full Member

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    Looking at his youtube videos, I share the same sentiment. But on the other thought, at 19 Monaco were willing to make him their first choice number nine over the course of a season including Europa league. They are probably not that stupid to rely on a stutterer in front of goal (if he is) for a whole season as their main source of goal. I am kind of divided between the two opinions right now. No sane manager makes a 19 year old a first choice without being pretty sure about his potential.
  39. Sep 5, 2015

    dustfingers Full Member

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    I just don't understand this part. Moyes was said to be a bad manager and the squad underachieved because of him and finishing 7th was basically his fault. If that was the case then, probably with a decent manager we could have finished fourth, right? Then how come LvG's task was much bigger?
  40. Sep 5, 2015

    Speak Step up to my misogyny soapbox

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    The thing is, everything can be argued either way.

    I'd say taking over Sir Alex's champions wasn't a true benefit. This wasn't a regular squad, accustomed to change. This was a squad where a good number of players only knew success under one man.

    You then have to factor in that Sir Alex had this team playing functional football for the most part. The mentality was what won them games, in my opinion. A few main men and a handful of grafters.
    I don't believe this squad was suited to winning in a more expansive style. They knew how to win by working hard, but not by plying teams off the park consistently. Having this squad dynamic wasn't a benefit, because they foundations weren't built on brilliant football.

    You say it needed patching up, but I disagree. I believe the squad needed a complete makeover. Not only did they need the Sir Alex factor shaken out of their systems, but also new players - who had played/won playing better football, with more initiative to attack and create - were needed. Too many of the players in the squad had gotten by (and won) without taking loads of initiative on the pitch. When they were asked to do it, they didn't know how.

    van Gaal had the benefit (in my opinion) of being able to make the high number of changes most managers have to wait three or four seasons to make. Most managers are forced, to play players they don't particularly want to play until they have been in the job for a good period of time. He was given the opportunity to do it all very quickly. And there was no resistance, because the last set of players had done poorly.

    Edit: also the 'bigger' job is not the same as the rawer deal.
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