US exam cheating scandal

[Arruda]

Sorry to be that guy but Texas A&M is not the same as the University of Texas.

I am talking about Texas A&M, not the University of Texas. I didn't write A&M all the time because it was boring.

It is the second largest University in the United States by enrollment, after, well, what a coincidence, the University of Central Florida.

EDIT: Well, I was looking at a list of campuses, not Universities, and A&M only has one campus. That said, it still makes it nearly 10 times as big as Harvard.

 

[Florida Man]

I am talking about Texas A&M, not the University of Texas. I didn't write A&M all the time because it was boring.

It is the second largest University in the United States by enrollment, after, well, what a coincidence, the University of Central Florida.

Hmm it’s always been to my knowledge that U Texas was among the top populous schools. Learn something new every day!

 

[Arruda]

Hmm it’s always been to my knowledge that U Texas was among the top populous schools. Learn something new every day!

Sorry, I edited my post.

University of Texas is bigger, I was looking at a list of campuses, and University of Texas' Austin campus alone is almost the size of A&M, so I guess overall it is significant bigger.
A&M still much bigger than Harvard though.

 

[Wibble]

Probably one of those multiple choice exams as well. You have to be proper thick to need to resort to cheating with one of those.

The SAT is multiple choice but it isn't at all easy. The maths and english grammar is high level. I took a test one last year - English section - when I was helping my son prep for his SAT and I wouldn't have got a score that would have got me a place in a top US Uni on SAT alone and I write for an academic audience as part of my job so I'm not totally illiterate.

 

[Wibble]

How does it work with the fake athletic scholarships when the kid shows up and has no athletic ability?

The coach put them as a recruitment target - in effect a potential reserve - this helps them get in and then they get cut. They aren't offered scholarships.

 

[Wibble]

No way any college wastes a limited athletic scholarship in D1 football or basketball on a fraud.

Or in any NCAA sport for that matter.

 

[Wibble]

Season ending injury which gets them red-shirted followed by inability to rehab properly after the first year ends which results in the scholarship being withdrawn and I doubt the school would kick them out since they can afford the tuition fees anyway .

Just a guess on how I think it could work out.

Doesn't even go that far. Once they are in they can be cut from the roster, assuming they even make the extended roster, before the season starts and they won't kick you out after that. It sounds like most just used being on a recruitment list at the Uni to support their applications, in some cases combined with a dodgy SAT score.

 

[Arruda]

The SAT is multiple choice but it isn't at all easy. The maths and english grammar is high level. I took a test one last year - English section - when I was helping my son prep for his SAT and I wouldn't have got a score that would have got me a place in a top US Uni on SAT alone and I write for an academic audience as part of my job so I'm not totally illiterate.

Tell me about. The exam we do for seriation to access to a medical specialization is a multiple choice exam for which recently graduated doctors, who are among the top 5 percentile of HS students in the country, prepare for more than one year, and usually the last 6 months in exclusivity. The average score is about 70%. A fully qualified and experienced specialist doctor who hasn't specifically prepared for the exam is unlikely to exceed 30% (this has been tested), minding that you should get 20% even if you know nothing just out of luck.

It's more a sadistic contest rather than a proper examination, as the knowledge we need for the exam is of no practical use (hence why practicing doctors suck at it). It is not meant to say if you're qualified or not, it's just a way to sort people in order. Since most of this audience is either very intelligent, workaholic, or both, If it was easier everyone would take 90%+ and it would fail at that purpose of seriating people.

And here I go preparing for it for the 2nd time. FML.

 

[adexkola]

The SAT is multiple choice but it isn't at all easy. The maths and english grammar is high level. I took a test one last year - English section - when I was helping my son prep for his SAT and I wouldn't have got a score that would have got me a place in a top US Uni on SAT alone and I write for an academic audience as part of my job so I'm not totally illiterate.

The SAT is as much a test of your test taking ability, as it is a test of your actual knowledge.

 

[Arruda]

The SAT is as much a test of your test taking ability, as it is a test of your actual knowledge.

Many times teachers don't know how to make these tests, and instead of evaluating your knowledge of the subjects they're evaluating your concentration filling the test with double negatives and other kinds of crappy traps.

 

[adexkola]

The coach put them as a recruitment target - in effect a potential reserve - this helps them get in and then they get cut. They aren't offered scholarships.

This makes sense.

 

[Wibble]

This is just a version of bribery. Exists everywhere unfortunately.



Accepting money for a sports scholarship is one thing....but then actually bringing them into the team is just stupidity and an easy way for the coach to get caught. I bet they play a secondary role or be in bench nominally before dropping off the program totally.

Yes. No scholarship money would be wasted on such a "player".

 

[Wibble]

This makes sense.

This what happened with Jovan Vavic, the water polo coach at USC. He just identified 2 players as a recruitment target to help them get in.

 

[Wibble]

The SAT is as much a test of your test taking ability, as it is a test of your actual knowledge.

That is a big part - yes.

 

[adexkola]

This what happened with Jovan Vavic, the water polo coach at USC. He just identified 2 players as a recruitment target to help them get in.

Is your son still into water polo?

 

[Wibble]

This is big news in my life as my son is on a water polo scholarship in California - not USC - but his mates play for USC and he regularly spends weekends down in LA with them. The worry for USC Water Polo now is that the $250k cash he was bribed with went to fund the team - who won the NCAA championship last year - so the NCAA will have to take action. What that is I don't know. Suspension for 1 or more years is possible. Stripping of titles? Scholarship restrictions? Who knows. I feel so sorry for the players who are blameless in all of this.

 

[Wibble]

Is your son still into water polo?

Yep. On a scholarship at UCSB.

 

[adexkola]

Yep. On a scholarship at UCSB.

Ah, that's awesome.

 

[Wibble]

Ah, that's awesome.

He loves it there. And a much better Uni than he would have got into on his academics alone.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He loves it there.

The absence of giant, man-eating spiders is probably a real plus.

 

[Wibble]

The absence of giant, man-eating spiders is probably a real plus.

He misses them and the snakes.

 

[Carolina Red]

Hmm it’s always been to my knowledge that U Texas was among the top populous schools. Learn something new every day!

UT at Austin is 7th.

 

[Wibble]

For most this is newsworthy because a couple of well know people got arrested and some CEO types.

 

[Florida Man]

UT at Austin is 7th.

Interesting. I wonder who makes up 2–6. (I could probably just google it)

 

[Wibble]

https://blog.prepscholar.com/the-biggest-colleges-in-the-united-states

 

[berbatrick]

Good article:
The Other College Scam

 

[MrMarcello]

UT at Austin is 7th.

And the greatest uni in America!!!

(I may or may not have burnt orange blood in my veins but in no way am I biased )

 

[MrMarcello]

https://blog.prepscholar.com/the-biggest-colleges-in-the-united-states

And the most alumni according this 2017 article.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/biggest-college-alumni-networks-in-us.html/

 

[Carolina Red]

And the greatest uni in America!!!

(I may or may not have burnt orange blood in my veins but in no way am I biased )

I’ve always had a soft spot for the Longhorns.

It is interesting that your orange and white team and my orange and white team both have significant hatred towards two garnet and white teams.

 

[MrMarcello]

What will happen to the students involved in the college admissions cheating scandal?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/us/college-admission-cheating-students/index.html

Students' fates will be determined 'case-by-case'
Christine Helwick, the former general counsel for the California State University system, said "there's no right solution" when it comes to the future of these students.
"It will have to be a case-by-case determination," she said.
If a student is found to have cheated on an exam like the SAT or lied on their application to the school, their fate would depend on where in the application process they were and whether they were already enrolled or had graduated when the cheating was discovered, Helwick said.
If they were in the middle of the application process, the school could easily take them out of consideration. At least two universities have said they will deny the admissions of students if they're found to be connected to the scandal.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Of Course College Admissions Rigged for the Rich. The Whole Economic System Is
The college admissions scandal is just the tip of the inequality iceberg

It’s crucial that everyone who is not a wealthy movie star, hedge fund executive, or corporate CEO—that is, 99 percent of all Americans—sees this college admissions scandal for what it really is: a microcosm of the larger, corrupt system that works against working people, squashing their chances for advancement.

This system is the reason that rich people and corporations got massive tax breaks last year while the 99 percent got paltry ones. It is the reason the federal minimum wage and the overtime threshold are stuck at poverty levels. It is the reason labor unions have dwindled over the past four decades.

This system is the reason we cannot have nice things. Despite all that land-of-equal-opportunity crap, the rich ensure that only they can have nice things, starting with what they can buy legally and illegally for their children and rising through what they can buy legally and illegally from politicians who make the rules that withdraw money from the pockets of working people and deposit it into the bulging bank accounts of the fabulously rich.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/...-admissions-rigged-rich-whole-economic-system

 

[ErranMorad]

It's not an obsession. The US has tremendous influence and power all over the world, so are naturally scrutinized. For example I very much doubt the President of Brasil would be who it is if Trump hadn't been elected before in the US. Although the US cannot be held responsible (i.e., "blamed") for the choices other societies chose to make, it has a tremendous observational value, almost predictive. For example, the first time I heard of excessive political correctedness issues was in relation to American universities. Fast-forward two or three years and the exact same issue is being debated here in relation to the Portuguese universities. To suggest that other countries should ignore the US because you "don't give two shits about them" either is a bit stupid. Your influence is far beyond economical and military, it is cultural too.

You are also the biggest western developed country in the world. And size matters in these things. I was just mentally thinking about all EU countries and I know the name of the head of state of every country more populous than Portugal (except Netherlands and Poland) and don't know the name of any of the smaller countries (apart from Hungary, who is well known for the worst reasons). You naturally pay attention to who is bigger.

I am not suggesting other countries should ignore the US or you shouldn't be aware. However, dissecting every single piece of news or tweet ad nauseam comes across as petty. There are a few people on here who are trying to make a career out of posting any stupid tweet from any obscure fecking idiot. Some moron on twitter doesn't represent a large sections of people, forget an entire society. Social media is haven for attention seeking needy assholes who'll do or say anything to get a bit of attention to fill the hole in their empty lives. The best thing you can do is ignore them and don't give them the attention they desperately seek.

The "extremely online" bunch are very proud of themselves on being informed. However, there is a huge difference between being knowledgeable and being informed. Information doesn't gets you very far in life; in fact too much of it is unhealthy. For me it's hilarious to see the kind of obsession that is constantly on show.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I am not suggesting other countries should ignore the US or you shouldn't be aware. However, dissecting every single piece of news or tweet ad nauseam comes across as petty. There are a few people on here who are trying to make a career out of posting any stupid tweet from any obscure fecking idiot. Some moron on twitter doesn't represent a large sections of people, forget an entire society. Social media is haven for attention seeking needy assholes who'll do or say anything to get a bit of attention to fill the hole in their empty lives. The best thing you can do is ignore them and don't give them the attention they desperately seek.

The "extremely online" bunch are very proud of themselves on being informed. However, there is a huge difference between being knowledgeable and being informed. Information doesn't gets you very far in life; in fact too much of it is unhealthy. For me it's hilarious to see the kind of obsession that is constantly on show.

I think your anger is misplaced. Jordan Peterson is Canadian and he gets destroyed on this forum. Milo, Piers Morgan, Farage, Boris (most UK politicians actually), most UK papers, etc. are ridiculed and dissected on this website.

Let alone the fact that this website has a big American presence so people are bound to discuss American things also.

 

[ErranMorad]

I think your anger is misplaced. Jordan Peterson is Canadian and he gets destroyed on this forum. Milo, Piers Morgan, Farage, Boris (most UK politicians actually), most UK papers, etc. are ridiculed and dissected on this website.

Let alone the fact that this website has a big American presence so people are bound to discuss American things also.

There is no anger, buddy. It's simply an observation. This is nation of free speech, and I am all for it. Anyone can discuss and say whatever they want without inciting violence. I can too.

There is shit happening all across. One can find negative news about anywhere if you make it your life goal and trawl through the internet. One simple google google search for "Uk, crime' and there are zillions of articles and tweets that show up to fill 100's of pages of a thread describing UK's serious knife problem. You can do that for any place. It's easy on the internet to go looking for stuff you want to look for, and then get sucked it.

 

[Fridge chutney]

There is no anger, buddy. It's simply an observation. This is nation of free speech, and I am all for it. Anyone can discuss and say whatever they want without inciting violence. I can too.

There is shit happening all across. One can find negative news about anywhere if you make it your life goal and trawl through the internet. One simple google google search for "Uk, crime' and there are zillions of articles and tweets that show up to fill 100's of pages of a thread describing UK's serious knife problem. You can do that for any place. It's easy on the internet to go looking for stuff you want to look for, and then get sucked it.

Anger was the wrong word. You don't come across as angry at all. My point is the CAF is critical of everything, not just stuff in the US.

Not sure what your second paragraph has to do with anything (not that I disagree with it).

 

[Welsh Wonder]

There is no anger, buddy. It's simply an observation. This is nation of free speech, and I am all for it. Anyone can discuss and say whatever they want without inciting violence. I can too.

There is shit happening all across. One can find negative news about anywhere if you make it your life goal and trawl through the internet. One simple google google search for "Uk, crime' and there are zillions of articles and tweets that show up to fill 100's of pages of a thread describing UK's serious knife problem. You can do that for any place. It's easy on the internet to go looking for stuff you want to look for, and then get sucked it.

Yep, there's a thread discussing knife crime too. There are lots of topics discussing lots of things worldwide, which is what a discussion forum is for. The US is a hugely influential place so it's hardly a surprise that a forum largely comprised of members from Western countries would have be discussing events there. Keeping that in mind, your first post seemed rather condescending for someone who is 'all for' people discussing and saying whatever they want.

The Europeans (especially the English) are obsessed for some reason. Weird, as we don't give two shits about them. Think it's an inferiority complex.

 

[entropy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

"My daughter knew absolutely nothing about my actions"

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[adexkola]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is the funny part about that.

Admission to the crown jewels of NYC's public high school system, is determined by a single exam. You don't get in based on who you know, or how much your father donates to the school. If you do well enough on a single test, then you're in.

Normally you would think this is a fair way of admitting students. But because of the low number of black and Hispanic students, there is growing criticism that the test is biased against this demographic.

Another wrinkle is that these schools get filled predominantly by Asian students, not white students. So is the test biased in favor of Asians?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

This is a thoroughly excellent article/opinion piece on the subject (it's also long): They had it coming: The parents indicted in the college-admissions scandal were responding to a changing America, with rage at being robbed of what they believed was rightfully theirs.