Ive already explained that you would not be able to tell from that angle but we agree to disagree. Whether or not you believe it to be close. When you are talking about millimetres then the angle being off 90 degrees even by a few degrees makes a big difference.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I’ve already explained that’s the one of if not the best angle possible (probably a degree or two off), and no it’s not millimeters out of bounds given the scale of the image.
I'd like a margin of error added to the rules for offside. I stand by what I said VAR should inform on objective fact only. If the tech isn't there then scrap it. What's the point if it's all more guess work?
To get as close to the facts as possible, whilst accepting that it’s a notional end point rather than an achievable aim? VAR gives a greater degree of accuracy than refs can. I don’t think you should say ‘what’s the point’ because the improvement can’t ever be perfect.
There is a too close to call option already, and that is sticking with the on-field decision, which they didn’t do today.
Plus there was one other angle that they were watching synced up with the angle that they based their decision on. Looking at that angle, the ball didn’t look to be out, and they looked at that angle for three seconds before getting rid of it.
You can even see a tiny change in the line right where the ball is.
So we have 1) a tiny change in the look of line right where the ball is, 2) one angle that seems to suggest the ball isn’t over the line, 3) an on-field decision that says goal, and 4) one angle that suggests that the ball may be a millimetre across the line, and that ends up with them overturning the on-field decision, with every pundit out there just going along with it saying it’s the right decision. It’s absolute bollocks.
I said exactly same. Just got glossed over and it looked tight to me.
Imagine that VAR Mic’d up show, but with a fan that gets to ask Webb questions. Not scripted and put on by a program that wants to continue to get the Premier League rights. Would be interesting to see how he explains situations. It’s easy to explain one decision but if you were to show him the same situation where the opposite happens and then see how it’s managed. That’d be interesting to hear the feedback.
I know it’d be chaos allowing fans to have a go, but it’d be more beneficial than them deciding which incidents they are going to put on the show and have so much time to prep, with no real cross examination.
I know it’d be chaos allowing fans to have a go, but it’d be more beneficial than them deciding which incidents they are going to put on the show and have so much time to prep, with no real cross examination.
FA Cup last year against West Ham
This is the sad truth. They promised a bunch of things they never delivered. It’s not error free and impartial. It steals the joy away from a goal celebration. It reduces the human referees to video technicians. How many more years are they going to be experimenting with this shit? The fact a VAR red card was overturned on appeal just proves what a fecking scam the whole thing is. Nobody wants to see those offside lines.
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Exactly. The law is meant to keep feckers from goal hanging, but if the two players in question are tight enough there’s no daylight, the attacker hasn’t gained an unfair advantage.
Absolutely agree with this. We have really been hard done with recent VAR and ref decisions.
Because it was
This wasn’t out btw.
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The same angle of yesterday's shows that the ball was further out of play IMO so if this one was just "in" than id say they got the call right.
That doesn’t look like the same angle. It’s also infinitely better quality.
The same angle of yesterday's shows that the ball was further out of play IMO so if this one was just "in" than id say they got the call right.
Still yet to see any replay of this. Hojlund to me looked on. I’ve no idea if the linesman flagged or what, or if Casemiro even played him in but that was another one where it gets no attention but would’ve been a huge call.
Errr they are totally comparable. In both cases it looks to the eye like the ball has easily crossed the line. In both cases the onfield decision was play on. In neither case was their definitive proof for var other than angles where the ball looked out. The West Ham goal had 3 united players stop thinking the ball was out of play….and no perpendicular camera angle to prove it hadn’t. So the goal stood.
The only way this would be different is if one had a perpendicular angle that proved it was in and one didn’t. Otherwise the situation is identical…
Ball looks out, play goes on, camera angles cannot prove that all of the ball crossed all of the line.
Maybe not exactly the same but I think it illustrates the difference in the two situations.
Agree about the quality of the image, but there is probably an infinity better quality image available for the Rashford decision which is what they based their decision on in the VAR room.
What are you talking about? My point is that video replay should be used for objective fact only. For example, whether the ball crossed the line or whether a player strayed offside. Not whether a tackle should be a pen unless the on field ref has missed an objective fact. Send the on field ref to the screen for every incident if that's what it takes.
Its based on the image we all saw.
Maybe not exactly the same but I think it illustrates the difference in the two situations.
Agree about the quality of the image, but there is probably an infinity better quality image available for the Rashford decision which is what they based their decision on in the VAR room.
the other image is from a greater height much closer to being vertical over the ball
Then no doubt its an infinitely higher quality version of the image that we all saw.
If it was the "Wrong" call it would have been all over the internet with how hated VAR and the refs are.
From a quick browse after the game yesterday on Reddit and various other online forums (as well as Redcafe) the general consensus is it was the right call to be honest and I would tend to agree from all available footage.
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Well you can tell by looking at the Brighton player compared to the other images, this person is clearly trying to bullshit people. I could take an image 30 seconds earlier and it proves about as much.
VAR is useless. We don't even have the right tech to come to a definitive conclusion over whether or not a ball has crossed a line or not.
Yeah fair enough, I think I was responding to someone else's question. Or drunk.
Shocked I am.
Out of interest has Mike disagreed with any Ref/VAR decision since rocking up on Sky Sports?
The Wolves one against us were the media had an absolute fit ?
There is no way anyone can accurately Tell if all of the ball has gone over the line or not from the available footage/images.
It's a complete 50/50 it should of been given because of the onfield decision, but it was overturned because they didn't want the media pile on United getting a 50/50 decision there way would of caused. Goes against United nobody bats an eyelid. Goes for United, gets talked about all week.
That's the only reason the goal wasn't given.
It's a complete 50/50 it should of been given because of the onfield decision, but it was overturned because they didn't want the media pile on United getting a 50/50 decision there way would of caused. Goes against United nobody bats an eyelid. Goes for United, gets talked about all week.
That's the only reason the goal wasn't given.
It doesn't need to to still be in play.
All of the ball has to have passed over the white line, it doesn't need to be touching.
Yeah I have no doubt he'd disagree with the refs in that instance.
I dunno, he was always a twat anyway.
However, when you look at that call it does look like the ball is fully over the line. I think it is. But when you slow it down and look at the stills, the images are too blurry and pixilated to know for sure. The only angle that you could see to be 100% sure is the top down one.
Seems pretty clear the ball went out to me. I’m not going to screech about conspiracy’s and the like, but it’s really frustrating to be missing out on crucial points because of bad luck and really narrow, rizla thin margin calls. We’re just not getting the rub of the green at the moment.
The thing is that "reckoning it's the right call" is something we've been told for, what, three years now, isn't enough to overturn an on-field decision, and we've begrudgingly come to accept that that is the standard they're applying across the board. Then suddenly we have a grainy image from a non-optimal angle of a ball potentially going across the line, and suddenly reckoning it's the right call is enough to overturn an on-field decision.
It's the same as with Casemiro last season, tons of tackles given yellow card where most people could "reckon that a red is the right decision", where we're told to accept the yellow card because it has to be clear and obvious to overturn on-field decisions or recommend a pitchside review. Then suddenly Casemiro's yellow becomes a red and everyone goes "ah yeah right call for me innit".
He didn't think the Villa pen was right.
Yep which is why VAR shouldn't have ruled it out. Its not a clear and obvious error on the part of the on pitch officials. But then their directives seem to be very fluid when it comes to decisions involving United.
Fair enough, personally I thought the ref got that one right. Defender only touched the ball after taking the strikers legs out.
Why don't the refs have the same technology available to them for the touchline as they do the goal line?
It was a foul but it was outside the box.
It gives some added accuracy, sure. But it comes at the expense of the overall enjoyment as a spectator. How many people on this forum have stopped celebrating goals because they know it’s gonna be reviewed for minutes?
That, for me, was an unintended consequence and I agree it’s bad. But think back to times when Utd have been knocked out of a competition by an offside goal, and think how angry you felt. Both options have pretty significant drawbacks.
Sure but some of the most memorable goals in recent history would have felt completely different with VAR. Examples being Sheringham’s equaliser vs Bayern or Owens deciding goal vs City.