Aye. It is different from just raking your studs down someone’s ankle like the picture suggests though.
I don’t really care, we’ve had enough bullshit penalty calls this year. VAR will never fix subjectivity.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I don’t really care, we’ve had enough bullshit penalty calls this year. VAR will never fix subjectivity.
Pretty sure it would still be a pen if it was someone else..
Ref doesn't give it so it's not a penalty, but if ref does give it then it's defintely a penalty.
Who thought this was a good idea? Because it's not.
Who thought this was a good idea? Because it's not.
I don’t think intent is relevant. It’s clumsy and he impedes him - absolutely stonewall pen.
Even so, They were just running, Amrabat didn’t make a challenge for the ball.
Getting rid of VAR entirely implies the technology is somehow a bad thing. That's nonsense.
There is nothing that says the only way you can concede a penalty is when making a challenge.
If you trip someone who is inside the box and attempting to score, it’s a penalty regardless of whether or not you intended it.
There isn’t an accidental handball rule for clipping ankles.
No it doesn't.
The use of VAR is detrimental to the sport as it is. If they can come up with a more appropriate use of technology to help the refs, then let's hear about it and test it until it's ready.
Just blindly using technology because progress isn't the way to deal with what was already the most popular sport. Like I said earlier, automatic offsides, out of play and goal line are good uses of technology. Using it for just another long winded attempt to judge some subjective calls is a complete mess.
No, but football is a contact sport and as such collisions are going to happen. The onfield ref Said no foul, and it was reviewed and confirmed by VAR. it wasn’t a penalty.
The onfield ref missed it and VAR isn't fit for purpose.
I'm not sure if you stumbled into this thread by accident, but if your argument is that you're right and the rules are wrong because a referee and VAR backed you up, it's not as strong as you think it is.
I’m sorry, I didn’t know I needed to be a professionally accredited referee or be invited to give my opinion in this thread. My mistake. Although, I was actually replying to a different poster, so why you have chosen to pick an argument I’m not sure. Maybe you stumbled by accident. No harm done, good night!
You don't. You just need to be two eyed enough to acknowledge when we've gotten away with an absolute shocker of a decision.I’m sorry, I didn’t know I needed to be a professionally accredited referee or be invited to give my opinion in this thread. My mistake. Although, I was actually replying to a different poster, so why you have chosen to pick an argument I’m not sure. Maybe you stumbled by accident. No harm done, good night!
The PGMOL is putting blind people in front of monitors but somehow it is the monitors' fault. Mind-boggling.
It wasn't a shocker. It could have been given but on most angles it does look like a coming together. It's certainly not a 'stonewall' penalty.
Even the current implementation of VAR is infinitely better than no VAR. You will never ban human error from refereeing. That has nothing to do with VAR, but more to do with many football rules being too open to interpretation.
I watch our 2nd division quite often and the ridiculously unjust stuff that happens without VAR is just silly at times.
I agree it isnt perfect and perhaps the implementation of it is worse in England, but abolishing VAR? Nah, sounds like a silly plan.
Which massive injustices have been corrected by VAR this season? We’ve seen multiple dives and obviously exaggerated contacts being confirmed as penalties, similar handball situations given different outcomes on a weekly basis, Diaz two yards onside being confirmed offside due to a clerical error. Which massive mistake and injustice has VAR prevented from happening? The Rodri penalty against us that took an eagle-eyed UAE employee to spot? The Onana pen that’s never given where they didn’t give it because they never do but then the media decided it’s a pen so when they got a new chance they gave the pen?
I mean, honestly looking at this entire season, the amount of massive injustices (ie Henry handball goals etc) that VAR has fixed are faaaar outnumbered by the frustration of a huge number 60/40 calls being wrongly given compared to the way you’d reasonably expect them to be given because the ref on the pitch has made the wrong decision, but not wrong enough.
Let's call it a postponement then. Until it's ready to be used in top level football.
What we have now is a farce which spoils the enjoyment of the game for many people, while being a long way from removing or even, I would suggest, reducing controversial calls.
How many times have you seen a possible incident in a game, and wondered if the football you're watching for the next few minutes will even count because someone in a remote room decides that a brush of an arm or slightest of contact is worthy of sending the ref to the screen, so he can watch it in slow motion from just some of the angles which are often still inconclusive?
Cameras, recorded images and slow motion are very ready to be used in top level football. It is just that the people tasked with using them, i.e. English referees, are either blatantly incompetent or willfuly obstinate.
Handball is definitely an example where the rule simply isn't clear enough. No amount of VAR tweaking will fix that.
I cant speak for the premier league as I don't watch it enough for that, but we've had some rather important calls made by VAR at pivotal times this season. Though granted this is mostly offsides or a ball being over the line.
I do believe refs are called to the screen less often in england due to the clear and obvious part being more strict there. And var also tends to take extremely long to decide over there which I can imagine is annoying.
There is something really strange going on now. They have stopped showing clips of the incidents that happen during the game, while the pundits are watching them and commenting without letting us see..the Lampty incident, the push Jackson was supposed to do before he scored and the foul on the man city goalkeeper..normally they would show us and from lots of angles but nothing.
Barring goal line technology which we now know works, VAR should only be used when the on field referee would like to seek clarity with a decision he isn’t sure about and wishes for a second opinion from the VAR. They would review the screen together, discuss amongst themselves and then the on field referee makes the final decision.
Re offsides, that has to go until we have the same technology as goal line, ie. it can’t be disputed and something buzzes on the refs arm when a player is offside. We’re not quite there yet with that technology.
The current system is flawed when the VAR has the control to contact the on field referee and effectively re referee the game. Thats the fundamental issue I have with how VAR is currently adopted in the PL.
Re offsides, that has to go until we have the same technology as goal line, ie. it can’t be disputed and something buzzes on the refs arm when a player is offside. We’re not quite there yet with that technology.
The current system is flawed when the VAR has the control to contact the on field referee and effectively re referee the game. Thats the fundamental issue I have with how VAR is currently adopted in the PL.
Scrap it.
It's still completely subjective. Two people can look at the same incident and come up with a different opinion. Just spoils the enjoyment of the game.
Mistakes happen, they've always happened. They still happen.
Goal line technology - fine.
That's it.
It's still completely subjective. Two people can look at the same incident and come up with a different opinion. Just spoils the enjoyment of the game.
Mistakes happen, they've always happened. They still happen.
Goal line technology - fine.
That's it.
VAR this year is even worse purely because they've told them not to intervene as much and raised the bar for clear and obvious. It's even rarer for the ref to go look at the replay due to this.
They'd get more correct decisions if they removed the clear and obvious stuff altogether and allowed the VAR and onfield ref to work together to come to a conclusion. VAR itself isn't the problem. It's the wrong-headed way they're doing it that is. Getting rid of VAR just means we get the same shit decisions and no chance at all of penalty incidents or wrong decisions made on goals scored or disallowed being overturned.
But that's the point. They haven't yet come up with a way of using the technology effectively. When they come up with a better plan it's on them to test it and prove it can work. Right now it clearly doesn't.
I'm convinced the referees have intentionally undermined VAR at every turn because they hated the idea from the very start.
There is no way they can actually be this bad not on purpose
There is no way they can actually be this bad not on purpose
Indeed. For example the two soft penalties Chelsea got in the 4-3 win against United and that win will go a long way to Chelsea finishing 6th now and United 7th at best.
I suspect we've gone too far with VAR to turn back. We've conditioned ourselves to it to such an extent that going back to the old days won't feel as good as we hoped. This is an argument for the soul of football and I fear we've inextricably corrupted it.
This. VAR has a strong human aspect, two guys looking screens, so nothing about it is objective.
Without VAR mistakes happen, with VAR mistakes still happen.
It's the way it's worked for me.
It seems so obvious to take a leaf out of other sports that are played at a fast pace.
You can go the rugby route, and the ref asks for clarification if he isn't sure in big moments, or the basketball route and have coaches challenges.
Both scenarios limit the amount of impact Var has, but keeps it for the big injustices or just to clarify an event that the ref isn't sure on rather than completely reffing the game.
I'm actually fine with automated offsides and of course goal line technology.
It seems so obvious to take a leaf out of other sports that are played at a fast pace.
You can go the rugby route, and the ref asks for clarification if he isn't sure in big moments, or the basketball route and have coaches challenges.
Both scenarios limit the amount of impact Var has, but keeps it for the big injustices or just to clarify an event that the ref isn't sure on rather than completely reffing the game.
I'm actually fine with automated offsides and of course goal line technology.
Good. A net negative. I hope it's completely abolished, but it won't be.
But what "technology" it's a bloke looking at a screen
You might as well argue that I'm making this point using the "technology" of a mobile phone, therefore you can't disagree with me that VAR is shit because "technology" is involved and therefore my point must, somehow, be valid
The main one for me is accepting the someone's knee appearing to cast a shadow on the same pixel that the ref had drawn a virtual line on, isn't "offside".
Unless a player looks visibly and obviously offside, it should stand.
That’s what VAR is supposed to be there for.
Should this have been ruled out then since KDB looks clearly offside?
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VAR said they didnt intervene because it wasnt a clear and obvious error which is correct isnt it if the on-field official was in a position where he wasnt actually able to see the contact?
He's not clearly off at all. Who ever drew the lines on the other tweet showed it was very tight. With the thicker lines he's probably on.
The phone is not a bad example actually. This is like blaming your phone instead of the one using it for poor posting.
So it's basically Fontaine!
Go to a challenge system. Give the team captains one challenge in each half (or one per match). Ref and fourth official look at the pitchside monitor.
Don't pretend it's capable of fixing every error or removing all controversy. All it's shown us is that the handball and the interfering with play rules in particular are highly subjective. To the point where the attempts to clarify them have made them worse.
Just give the officials the chance for another look if a decision is that important and it's that disputed.
Don't pretend it's capable of fixing every error or removing all controversy. All it's shown us is that the handball and the interfering with play rules in particular are highly subjective. To the point where the attempts to clarify them have made them worse.
Just give the officials the chance for another look if a decision is that important and it's that disputed.
Only Premiership refs can make VAR look this bad, which is quite remarkable considering how professional they are supposed to be.
Nothing wrong with VAR, use it the right way and it would be great.
Need the right people using VAR, not the current set up of refs protecting refs.
Nothing wrong with VAR, use it the right way and it would be great.
Need the right people using VAR, not the current set up of refs protecting refs.
Dunno why he brings this up as some sort of reason not to scrap VAR. It’s another good example of why it should be binned. Because it’s another reason for pointless arguments about onfield decisions and how you define clear and obvious.
With no VAR that’s a minor error from an unsighted referee, that nobody is too fussed about. With VAR it’s a controversy and an overwhelming sense of injustice from one set of fans, followed by conspiracy theories about corruption. Which erodes confidence in referees more and more each week.
If VAR is binned that will be the best thing about this season by miles.
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