I thought he was fine. He surprised me by winning the ball aggressively a few times and had a couple of important tackles. Probably a bit lucky to not concede but he bounced back later in the game and kept his composure instead of becoming nervy. Mentally he looked sharp when it mattered and usually he has problems with that because of his passive style. With that being said, I don't like his style and I shouldn't be so pleasantly surprised by a defender making tackles but there you go.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Tall performance except for one could-be penalty incident...but sometimes shit happens. That's fine.
But.. But.. Outmuscled.. Bad in air.. Etc.Tweet
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Rio Ferdinand has like 0.6 tackles per game and he is probably our greatest defender ever. I remember when he went on a ridiculous streak without conceding a foul, a large part of that was because his positioning was so good he was barely making any tackles. A CB making more than 1 tackle per game is often not a good sign.
I'm a big fan of Lindelof. I think he has the right temperament and will continue to improve. He can be upgraded, but I don't think it's our number 1 concern. He's a very good CB.
If you just completely ignore the fact that he tackles about as much as the average CB, I could see how you'd be surprised by the fact that he makes tackles.
Kind of like you're doing in in this very post?
Or like when you used stats, but operated with entirely different definitions from the ones Opta/WhoScored use, essentially rendering your analysis of said stats meaningless?
I'll give you one thing; You're not afraid of contradicting yourself.
Great show. It would be very bad if he had a 200 or 15,000 Roentgen performance
I actually think he put in a very good performance. I’ve rated his performances better than Maguire recently. Maybe that’s because Maguire frustrates me with his off target headers and the time he spends on the ball when he should keep the ball moving.
Don't mind Ekeke. He has a pretty clear agenda against Lindelöf. I just scroll past his posts nowadays.
Very good game again. I hope people start to appreciate him more.
He's not a very front foot defender. He doesn't like to engage with attackers, I thought he did poorly in that chance Zaha had where De Gea made a good save with his feet. Knowing Zaha is right footed, he should be closing down quicker and not allowing his to shoot, he gave way too much room to him. The interception he made where he passed it straight to Ayew was very poor too. It may seem like I have an agenda against him pointing out these moments but it was poor defending.
Expert words if I ever saw them
right! Revolutionary stuff!Can't belive he gets so much pass in the CAF. I guess only Pogba gets more. Penalty aside Ddg saved a shot from Zaha that came down to his clumsy reaction. Luckly Zaha's shot was straight at Ddg otherwise that would be labeled as a defensive error.
Had a great game. Our best defender by far this year now imo.
This is reminding me of last season when Lindelof would have a mediocre game but at the end of the game people start praising him "iceman iceman". The Caf is already overrating him once again because the agenda now is Maguire was a waste of money
Van Dijk plays next to a CB who makes a good amount of attempts at winning the ball
This means his defensive partner is being far more aggressive while VVD isnt a very aggressive CB. Thats why it works.
On top of that there are areas where VVD is strong with his defending
So he makes a healthy number of clearances, a good amount of headers and a high success rate from them. He's still less of a ball winner than some of his partners, but one of the CBs is doing what he's not.
Now lets look at United
Every single Liverpool CB other than VVD attempts to win a tackle more often than United's CBs.
Every Liverpool CB makes more interceptions than Lindelof including VVD. Maguire makes more than Liverpool's CBs.
So Lindelof is the only one who both attempts very few tackles, and very few interceptions. Lindelof makes the fewest combined tackles and interceptions of all United and Liverpool's CBs this season other than Rojo who played 1 game.
Now we go onto the part where VVD has his strengths in defending
So Gomez is the only CB who played more than 1 match who makes less clearances per 90 minutes than Lindelof
Lindelof attempts less headers than any Liverpool CB, but with Shaw and one game Rojo attempting even less than him.
So in summary with all the proof above - Yes you can make a comparison to VVD when it comes to not engaging in making many attempts to tackle. But VVD does engage and try to intercept which Lindelof does not. Thats a non-aggressive side to VVD thats balanced out by his CB partner trying to make more tackles and interceptions.
BUT the difference is that VVD has his strengths with defending too - makes a good amount of clearances, and a high amount of attempts at winning the ball in the air with a good success rate.
Lindelof has the non-aggressive side down with a similar amount of attempted tackles, but doesnt play next to a partner who does attempt to get in a tackle unlike VVD. Lindelof also attempts to intercept less than VVD, but Maguire does intercept more than Liverpool's CBs so that one part is covered.
Unlike VVD, Lindelof doesnt make many clearances and doesnt attempt many aerial challenges. So essentially he has the weaker part of VVD's game where someone else helps him out being more aggressive trying to win the ball, but he also has weaknesses in the areas where VVD excels. So theres no pay off unlike VVD. He's just low on everything.
Maguire on the other hand is just a little under VVD's numbers in those strong parts of his game, clearances and aerial challenges though with a worse success rate.
So now Maguire has Lindelof covered with interceptions, clearances and aerials. While together the two lack in attempted tackles.
Maguire does all the work and Lindelof has no strength in defending. Thats the problem.
I think he’s really starting to get better. He’s still only what, 25/26? Defenders don’t really peak until a couple of years later after that. They can easily carry on till their mid 30s
He would be highly rated in Series a
Thought he was great last night. One of the few players that did well through the whole game.
They have different roles. Maguire is dominant in the air and Lindelof covers behind. They also have different styles. Some players are reactive with a lot of tackles etc, other are good at following their opponents like Lindelof. In the end there is only one team with better defence record this season (Liverpool 6 goals better after 36 matches). If you look at goals conceded from open play I think the difference is even smaller. There is no way they would get that result if Maguire did all the work alone. He’s good but not that good.Van Dijk plays next to a CB who makes a good amount of attempts at winning the ball
This means his defensive partner is being far more aggressive while VVD isnt a very aggressive CB. Thats why it works.
On top of that there are areas where VVD is strong with his defending
So he makes a healthy number of clearances, a good amount of headers and a high success rate from them. He's still less of a ball winner than some of his partners, but one of the CBs is doing what he's not.
Now lets look at United
Every single Liverpool CB other than VVD attempts to win a tackle more often than United's CBs.
Every Liverpool CB makes more interceptions than Lindelof including VVD. Maguire makes more than Liverpool's CBs.
So Lindelof is the only one who both attempts very few tackles, and very few interceptions. Lindelof makes the fewest combined tackles and interceptions of all United and Liverpool's CBs this season other than Rojo who played 1 game.
Now we go onto the part where VVD has his strengths in defending
So Gomez is the only CB who played more than 1 match who makes less clearances per 90 minutes than Lindelof
Lindelof attempts less headers than any Liverpool CB, but with Shaw and one game Rojo attempting even less than him.
So in summary with all the proof above - Yes you can make a comparison to VVD when it comes to not engaging in making many attempts to tackle. But VVD does engage and try to intercept which Lindelof does not. Thats a non-aggressive side to VVD thats balanced out by his CB partner trying to make more tackles and interceptions.
BUT the difference is that VVD has his strengths with defending too - makes a good amount of clearances, and a high amount of attempts at winning the ball in the air with a good success rate.
Lindelof has the non-aggressive side down with a similar amount of attempted tackles, but doesnt play next to a partner who does attempt to get in a tackle unlike VVD. Lindelof also attempts to intercept less than VVD, but Maguire does intercept more than Liverpool's CBs so that one part is covered.
Unlike VVD, Lindelof doesnt make many clearances and doesnt attempt many aerial challenges. So essentially he has the weaker part of VVD's game where someone else helps him out being more aggressive trying to win the ball, but he also has weaknesses in the areas where VVD excels. So theres no pay off unlike VVD. He's just low on everything.
Maguire on the other hand is just a little under VVD's numbers in those strong parts of his game, clearances and aerial challenges though with a worse success rate.
So now Maguire has Lindelof covered with interceptions, clearances and aerials. While together the two lack in attempted tackles.
Maguire does all the work and Lindelof has no strength in defending. Thats the problem.
Anyway, we can conclude that looking at tackle stats shows that many of the top CBs have relatively small numbers and that’s even in PL. The stats from Whoscored more reflect the type of style, role and team, than how good a CB is. Laporte for example has 1.7 won aerial per match, 0.9 tackles, 1.5 interceptions, 1.8 clearances and 0.4 blocks.
The fallacy of your method is known at the McNamara-fallacy. You tend to think that what you can measure and compare is what is important, put too much weight on it and end up with the wrong conclusion.
For instance, a clearance is litteraly just a pass without direction. You have no proof that a higher number of clearances is actually a positive. It just depends on how you approach a situation. You also try to adjust the numbers to your narrative. Fact is, van Dijks most succesful partner this year has been Gomez. Maguire makes, combined, the same amout of interceptions and tackles combined.
It is also interesting to note the amount of tackles, aerial and clearances Lovren actually make. Because it is very telling of how little these numbers actually matter. Lovren has been awful the entire season and it seems likely that Klopp will ditch him this summer. If Klopp and Liverpool had used the same amature approach to stats that you use, they would probably kept Lovren, their worst CB, and played him next to van Dijk. It is extremely telling to use statistics this way. It is literally worth nothing.
He was brilliant again. A few shaky moments, but overall had a very good game, composed on the ball and was there covering AWB on the wing. He had a tricky player in Zaha to deal with and done well for most of the game.
1) It’s a stonewall penalty; don’t be so blinkered.
2) During the match, there was one occasion in the second half when Zaha turned him inside the box and got a shot away. It was blocked.
3) There was lots of space to cover and he covered it. He could have done more by getting across on the slide to block the attempt. Picky, yes, but true all the same.
I form my opinion based upon merit, not the score line at the end of the game. It’s why I quite rightly said that he was very good against Southampton.
1. A stone wall penalty is one that VAR would over turn. He got the ball and the man, we wouldn't moan if it wasnt given. He got the ball first as he intercepted which way Zaha was going.
2. Yeah, it is a very big mistake letting one of the trickiest players in the pl from getting a shot away.
3. Zaha is a tricky winger, If he slid in Zaha would have easily done a fake shot and left Lindelof for dead, he trusted DDG not to get beat from there.
We’ll agree to disagree on points 2 and 3. The suggestion that the penalty incident isn’t a penalty just diminishes your credibility here altogether, mind. He goes straight through the back of the man and gets a nick on the ball; it’s a foul. VAR didn’t overturn it because the bloke in the box wasn’t up to the job. There isn’t a football supporter in the land who genuinely believes that not to be a foul, but do crack on.
He like Maguire are decent CBs but not in the very best bracket. They're both slowly improving and our defense looks far more settled this year than it has for a few seasons.
Does Lindelof make mistakes? Yes. Can he be upgraded? Yes. Is it a priority? Depends what objectives we're aiming for next season, both Maguire and Lindelof have too many errors in them to be title worthy but they can easily lead us to a top 3 finish and they are improving as a unit. Neither are injury prone which is a minor miracle so i'd stick with them for another season and see if they continue to improve. If there's still questions being asked next Summer then we can bring in a replacement.
Does Lindelof make mistakes? Yes. Can he be upgraded? Yes. Is it a priority? Depends what objectives we're aiming for next season, both Maguire and Lindelof have too many errors in them to be title worthy but they can easily lead us to a top 3 finish and they are improving as a unit. Neither are injury prone which is a minor miracle so i'd stick with them for another season and see if they continue to improve. If there's still questions being asked next Summer then we can bring in a replacement.
Good sensible post.
They make mistakes, if they can cut those mistakes out next season along with a few good additions in midfield and attack, we could dominate games score goals, play well and look like we can push the two teams above us. Then we know going into the season after, a top quality CB would complete us.
We have 2 defenders who want to play, will give it their all and like you say, can stay fit for a season.
I would rather spend big on a RW which is a position for concern for number of years and a CDM who can get us control of the game in the absense of Matic.
Asides from this there isn't any CB in the market available for the right price that is guaranteed to turn the back line to a title winning one
Agreed. I understand that people get very jittery about our defense given just how bad it was last season but we've made big strides in the last 6 months. I thought Lindelof was a terrible purchase so i'm eating my words when I say this but as player he's dependable and that is something we've lacked for a number of seasons really. He'll never be a Rio or a Vidic but thats ok, we're not at that level yet as a team. Give it another season or two and those are the standards we should be aiming for.
I'd also look to improve those positions too for what its worth. I've been banging the RW drum for around 5/6 seasons now so hopefully Ole is the man to finally cure me of this never ending beat.
Exactly, I'd understand it if there was a supreme talent on the market aching to join us, but we missed out on that player last Summer. At most we should be looking at a squad player, but personally I much prefer going down the route of improving the first eleven rather than bringing in just another random body who may/may not improve us. We have enough projects in the squad right now.
Although you could say that good manager shouldn't always need to buy "guaranteed" players to improve their team.
Yep, can we name a CB that will instantly improve us ? Nope.
Can we name a RW that will instantly improve us? Yes.
Tbh, I didnt know much about Lindelof before we signed him, just a few words from Zlatan but that's because they are both Swedish. Hwoever; he is a United player and we should back him, its not like he is costing us 5/10 goals a season.
Wow. What game did you watch.
Surprised at some of the praise here, I think he had a better game against Southampton, only for that last minute feck up. Contrary to some, I don't think it was a penalty on Zaha, he got the ball but few other shaky moments and luckily his teammates covered. However, Zaha is a very good attacker and usually causes problems to any defender. Next I hope he adds a bit of a nasty side to his game, smash some attackers and let em know you are here, no more nice guy and lifting attacker on their feet. All together I am just glad that we kept a clean sheet. Credit to the whole team.
Like the Fred one vs City? Or the Jesus one the other day? Or the Harry Kane one the other day? Or countless others?
Fair enough.
So because he almost conceded a penalty, he is a crap defender?
And Maguire is a crap defender because we got saved by VAR?
Or Bruno is a diving merchant because of the penalty V Villa?
Thought Lindelof had a good game last night. Starting to look like he is up for the fight
All I take issue with is the idea that VAR is any way competant!
Ok, my bad.
VAR is not competent, I can agree with that but fans pointing fingers at certain individuals is a clear agenda when we kept a clean sheet.
With the amount of backtracking he was doing last night I thought he was going on holiday to France
Good post,Van Dijk plays next to a CB who makes a good amount of attempts at winning the ball
This means his defensive partner is being far more aggressive while VVD isnt a very aggressive CB. Thats why it works.
On top of that there are areas where VVD is strong with his defending
So he makes a healthy number of clearances, a good amount of headers and a high success rate from them. He's still less of a ball winner than some of his partners, but one of the CBs is doing what he's not.
Now lets look at United
Every single Liverpool CB other than VVD attempts to win a tackle more often than United's CBs.
Every Liverpool CB makes more interceptions than Lindelof including VVD. Maguire makes more than Liverpool's CBs.
So Lindelof is the only one who both attempts very few tackles, and very few interceptions. Lindelof makes the fewest combined tackles and interceptions of all United and Liverpool's CBs this season other than Rojo who played 1 game.
Now we go onto the part where VVD has his strengths in defending
So Gomez is the only CB who played more than 1 match who makes less clearances per 90 minutes than Lindelof
Lindelof attempts less headers than any Liverpool CB, but with Shaw and one game Rojo attempting even less than him.
So in summary with all the proof above - Yes you can make a comparison to VVD when it comes to not engaging in making many attempts to tackle. But VVD does engage and try to intercept which Lindelof does not. Thats a non-aggressive side to VVD thats balanced out by his CB partner trying to make more tackles and interceptions.
BUT the difference is that VVD has his strengths with defending too - makes a good amount of clearances, and a high amount of attempts at winning the ball in the air with a good success rate.
Lindelof has the non-aggressive side down with a similar amount of attempted tackles, but doesnt play next to a partner who does attempt to get in a tackle unlike VVD. Lindelof also attempts to intercept less than VVD, but Maguire does intercept more than Liverpool's CBs so that one part is covered.
Unlike VVD, Lindelof doesnt make many clearances and doesnt attempt many aerial challenges. So essentially he has the weaker part of VVD's game where someone else helps him out being more aggressive trying to win the ball, but he also has weaknesses in the areas where VVD excels. So theres no pay off unlike VVD. He's just low on everything.
Maguire on the other hand is just a little under VVD's numbers in those strong parts of his game, clearances and aerial challenges though with a worse success rate.
So now Maguire has Lindelof covered with interceptions, clearances and aerials. While together the two lack in attempted tackles.
Maguire does all the work and Lindelof has no strength in defending. Thats the problem.
But my eyes can already tell me all that.
it’s maybe not as urgent as RW but we definitely need to upgrade CB if we want to entertain the thought of winning leagues.
So Matip is a better defender than VVD. Gotcha.
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