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2019-20 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
45
Clean sheets
18
Goals
1
Assists
1
Yellow cards
6

Kamprad

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This is not true though. Weak, I would agree (it is actually more than he is hesitant rather than really being bullied), but he is neither slow, nor bad aerially. And his passing is more than decent.
Are you serious?
 

Revan

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Are you serious?
66% aerial win rate this season from 146 duels. Smalling for example, last season had a 64% win rate from 159 attempts.

Sure, that was not Smalling's best year, and he attempts more (despite that the sample is similar, but Smalling played less games) which means that he tries to win some headers that cannot be won, but 66% is a decent win rate, and 146 attempts is respectable though not great.

For more comparisons, here are the stats of some good defenders:

Joe Gomez: 59% from 119 duels
Tomori: 54% from 63 duels (smaller sampler but still lower win rate)
Rudiger: 59% from 96 duels
Nathan Ake: 49.6% from 125 duels
Jonny Evans: 64% from 198 duels (quite more attempts, worse win rate)
Otamendi: 62% from 98 duels
Christensen: 57.5% from 120 duels
Wan Bissaka (whom Caf wants to convert him to CB): 40.7% from 59 duels.

Lindelof's aerial duels are comparable with them (probably Evans is better considering his much higher sample) and better than most of them, yet people act like he cannot win a header to save his life.

'I watch the match with my own eyes instead of Teletext' brigade coming.
 

Kamprad

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66% aerial win rate this season from 146 duels. Smalling for example, last season had a 64% win rate from 159 attempts.

Sure, that was not Smalling's best year, and he attempts more (despite that the sample is similar, but Smalling played less games) which means that he tries to win some headers that cannot be won, but 66% is a decent win rate, and 146 attempts is respectable though not great.

For more comparisons, here are the stats of some good defenders:

Joe Gomez: 59% from 119 duels
Tomori: 54% from 63 duels (smaller sampler but still lower win rate)
Rudiger: 59% from 96 duels
Nathan Ake: 49.6% from 125 duels
Jonny Evans: 64% from 198 duels (quite more attempts, worse win rate)
Otamendi: 62% from 98 duels
Christensen: 57.5% from 120 duels
Wan Bissaka (whom Caf wants to convert him to CB): 40.7% from 59 duels.

Lindelof's aerial duels are comparable with them (probably Evans is better considering his much higher sample) and better than most of them, yet people act like he cannot win a header to save his life.

'I watch the match with my own eyes instead of Teletext' brigade coming.
He’s so bad he doesn’t even try to win 50/50 duels. That’s why his percentage is high. Show me statistics of how many defensive corners those CBs has cleared aerially. Or offensive corners they have headed.
 

A-man

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If Lindelof has pace why didn't he cover the ground for the Spurs goal?
This is not logic. Just because you saw a polar bear at a zoo, doe



The way he backs off like that happens a lot. It doesn't always lead to goals, but it often leaves an impression that he's not pulling his weight defensively especially with being proactive, tackling, and generally getting stuck in.

He just simply doesn't like to engage, and as a CB it's a very weird trait, especially for a club like ours which needs proactive CB's. Sometimes I just trust my eyes with these things, and I'm calling it as I see it on the pitch. Nothing personal or agenda based.
So how many goals have we conceded because Lindelof backed off and gave a clear shot? I can only remember the one you picked and from that distance it should be safe to give a clear shot, because DDG should be able to handle it. Could be more goals but do t think this is a big and costly problem really. Most of the time he follows the attacker quite well and close and stalls them or forces them to pass the ball backwards.
 

georgipep

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The way he backs off like that happens a lot. It doesn't always lead to goals, but it often leaves an impression that he's not pulling his weight defensively especially with being proactive, tackling, and generally getting stuck in.

He just simply doesn't like to engage, and as a CB it's a very weird trait, especially for a club like ours which needs proactive CB's. Sometimes I just trust my eyes with these things, and I'm calling it as I see it on the pitch. Nothing personal or agenda based.
If Lindelof commits to Mount in this situation he leaves the entire other half of the pitch empty and exposed for AWB to cover (impossible if a Chelsea player attacks the middle). CBs share the area and Lindelof shouldn't have moved any further to close down Mount, it's just defending 101. Maguire was not caught out of position. Problem was De Gea and Williams for gifting the ball.
 

A-man

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Are you serious?
I took the “10 best centrebacks in the world”- list from Sport Bible. I don’t agree with this list , but they are all good at least and give us a sample of good CBs that I haven’t picked myself. It’s a good way to compare Lindelof’s aerial ability with other CBs. Now I included Lindelof and rank them in aerials won per 90 min:

VvD 5.0
Pique 3.7
Lindelof 2.8
Varane 2.6
Koulibaly 2.1
Ramos 2.1
Laporte 2.0
Boateng 1.9
Bonucci 1.8
Skriniar 1.3
Alaba 0.8
 
Last edited:

roonster09

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He’s so bad he doesn’t even try to win 50/50 duels. That’s why his percentage is high. Show me statistics of how many defensive corners those CBs has cleared aerially. Or offensive corners they have headed.
Exactly, aerial win % should be used alongside how many they won. His header win % was same as Smalling's last season but Smalling won around twice the number of headers. Also it's not just headers, Lindelof is weak at everything.

Out of 46 CBs who played at least 15 games this season, Lindelof total header attempts ranks him at 36, even less than Fernandinho, And he ranks 30th in Aerial duels won per 90 mins.

Out of 46 CBs who played at least 15 games
36th is headers attempted
30th in headers won
44th in interceptions per game.
39th in clearances
40th in blocks
43rd in Tackles attempted
39th in Tackles won

He doesn't stand out even in one attribute. If he was good at least in 1 attribute it would have been easier to look past his weakness.

Also when it comes to on the ball ability, he doesn't even stand out in dribbling, he ranks 41st in accurate long passes.
People use "He wasn't dribbled past" stat without even understanding what that means, just like how few hyped up Van Dijk using that stat when there are players who dribbled past VVD but only reason it wasn't counted was, he didn't attempt to tackle. That's how poor that stat is.

Lindelof is very passive defender.
 

Cassidy

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This does not make sense IMO. Maguire is too expensive (and too high profile) to be signed for the bench. Whatever club signed him, was going to play him.

In any case, Barca wanting a player does not say anything about that player's quality. And Maguire would be suitable for Barca too, his passing is very good, plus brings enough aggressiveness and good quality defending. I don't see why Lindelof would be able to do a job but Maguire wouldn't.

Magure is better than Lindelof (took me a while to understand this, and it is important to see past the price to get to this). Lindelof has more pace and doesn't get dribbled (while Maguire is very prone to be dribbled and also useless in 1 on 1), but in all other aspects (tackles, interceptions, clearances, blocks, aerial duels, passes) Magure is quite better.
He was not too high profile when we bought Lindelof. Please lets stop it, he only became too highprofile the season before we bought him. His profile was lesser than Lindelofs before that. Hence one had many European clubs chasing him and the other was playing for Leicester. Its very simple whats being said yet the mental gymnastics being played out is incredible.

One has had plenty of European clubs interested in his services and the other has not. So it makes no sense to say all European clubs would pick Maguire just because he is now an 80m CB is what I have been saying
 

roonster09

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He was not too high profile when we bought Lindelof. Please lets stop it, he only became too highprofile the season before we bought him. His profile was lesser than Lindelofs before that. Hence one had many European clubs chasing him and the other was playing for Leicester. Its very simple whats being said yet the mental gymnastics being played out is incredible.

One has had plenty of European clubs interested in his services and the other has not. So it makes no sense to say all European clubs would pick Maguire just because he is now an 80m CB is what I have been saying
ManCity wanted Maguire and even last week Pep was crying about it.

Wish we had taken that option and sold him to Barca, would have been brilliant deal for us.
 

Hoboman

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He is not slow, but not fast, is not poor in aerial battles, but not great either (especially in attacking crosses and headed clearances), is weak, but reads the game relatively well and generally very reliable fitness wise.

His progress since first season was nothing short of outstanding, he didn't crack under massive pressure, which indicates his strong mentality.

Hovewer Maguire's catastrophic season ending somehow elevated Lindelof's abilities and valuation in some fans' eyes.

All in all, Lindelof is above average defender with no standout qualities, who is good enough to be squad player or maybe even starter, but for dominant, well-oiled, posession-based side with very mobile midfielders.

He can be upgraded, but new defensive midfielder or commanding and confident goalkeeper are bigger priorities for now.
 

roonster09

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Because they are a European club...
Not sure why the filter, Mancity are a top club and they wanted Maguire, their manager confirmed it.

European clubs wanted Mkhi, I'm not sure if any of them were linked strongly with players like Kane, Sterling. Not sure what to make of that, English players don't leave England apart from rare occasions, so having European clubs linked with one player is not some badge of honor.
 

Cassidy

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Not sure why the filter, Mancity are a top club and they wanted Maguire, their manager confirmed it.

European clubs wanted Mkhi, I'm not sure if any of them were linked strongly with players like Kane, Sterling. Not sure what to make of that, English players don't leave England apart from rare occasions, so having European clubs linked with one player is not some badge of honor.
The filter is due to the post I originally replied to and the whole point of the conversation

Who called it a badge of honour? In future follow a conversation for context before jumping in otherwise you will continue to take posts out of context
 

roonster09

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The filter is due to the post I originally replied to and the whole point of the conversation

Who called it a badge of honour? In future follow a conversation for context before jumping in otherwise you will continue to take posts out of context
I saw the initial posts and it went from "If you offer 2 CBs, no club will choose Lindelof"
"Barca were interested in Lindelof"

Were they offered both CBs? No.

This is like "No club will choose Mkhi if both Mkhi and Rashford are offered to European clubs"
"But Roma signed Mkhi"

Unless if both of these CBs are offered to the clubs, we don't know which player would have been signed. Maguire was always 80 million rated by Leicester, so it doesn't make sense for Barca to be interested.
 

RkkMan

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He is not slow, but not fast, is not poor in aerial battles, but not great either (especially in attacking crosses and headed clearances), is weak, but reads the game relatively well and generally very reliable fitness wise.

His progress since first season was nothing short of outstanding, he didn't crack under massive pressure, which indicates his strong mentality.

Hovewer Maguire's catastrophic season ending somehow elevated Lindelof's abilities and valuation in some fans' eyes.

All in all, Lindelof is above average defender with no standout qualities, who is good enough to be squad player or maybe even starter, but for dominant, well-oiled, posession-based side with very mobile midfielders.

He can be upgraded, but new defensive midfielder or commanding and confident goalkeeper are bigger priorities for now.
Catastrophic season???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Last time I checked Maguire who`s played every PL game is a big reason why we have conceded 30 goals less in all comps and over 10 goals less in the PL
A catastrophic season is where you are a reason why you concede 54 goals in the PL and over 60 in all comps
 

Cassidy

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I saw the initial posts and it went from "If you offer 2 CBs, no club will choose Lindelof"
"Barca were interested in Lindelof"

Were they offered both CBs? No.

This is like "No club will choose Mkhi if both Mkhi and Rashford are offered to European clubs"
"But Roma signed Mkhi"

Unless if both of these CBs are offered to the clubs, we don't know which player would have been signed. Maguire was always 80 million rated by Leicester, so it doesn't make sense for Barca to be interested.
You’re missing the point again.
The point is there is no evidence to suggest that more clubs in Europe would choose Maguire over Lindelof. My posts were to show at least some evidence suggest some do rate or want to sign Lindelof. Its a very simple point

Ive said plenty of times Im not saying one is better than the other. Just calling out a statement made with very little supporting evidence
 

roonster09

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You’re missing the point again.
The point is there is no evidence to suggest that more clubs in Europe would choose Maguire over Lindelof. My posts were to show at least some evidence suggest some do rate or want to sign Lindelof. Its a very simple point
Yes but the initial point was about "Any club in the world". There is clear evidence that ManCity wanted Maguire but Barca wanting Lindelof is all agent talk for better contract, they might have been interested but I don't think it's as clear cut as ManCity and Maguire where their manager spoke about it multiple times.

Initial point was also about if you offer both of them, so Barca wanting to sign Lindelof has nothing to do with the point as both were not offered to them and also the price difference between 2 CBs was so huge that takers for Maguire would be very small.

If OP's point was "No club or no big club will ever sign/try to sign Lindelof" then yes, Barca wanting to sign him was a clear proof that OP's point was nonsense.
 

Cassidy

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Yes but the initial point was about "Any club in the world". There is clear evidence that ManCity wanted Maguire but Barca wanting Lindelof is all agent talk for better contract, they might have been interested but I don't think it's as clear cut as ManCity and Maguire where their manager spoke about it multiple times.

Initial point was also about if you offer both of them, so Barca wanting to sign Lindelof has nothing to do with the point as both were not offered to them and also the price difference between 2 CBs was so huge that takers for Maguire would be very small.

If OP's point was "No club or no big club will ever sign/try to sign Lindelof" then yes, Barca wanting to sign him was a clear proof that OP's point was nonsense.
Any club would pick one over the other. My point is there is no proof of it in either direction. I provided evidence (both the Barca one and the clubs in for Lindelof when he was at Benfica) that casts reasonable doubt over the assertion that Maguire would be picked over him by all clubs

And actually the op said clubs in Europe before it was amended which is why I said Barca in the first place
 

Hoboman

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Catastrophic season???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Last time I checked Maguire who`s played every PL game is a big reason why we have conceded 30 goals less in all comps and over 10 goals less in the PL
A catastrophic season is where you are a reason why you concede 54 goals in the PL and over 60 in all comps
Maguire was awful at the end of the season and made too many mistakes, but generally he had decent first season.

Lindelof was never a reason why we concede so many goals. He was part of broken team and unorganized defence with Ashley Young instead of AWB at right back.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You’re missing the point again.
The point is there is no evidence to suggest that more clubs in Europe would choose Maguire over Lindelof. My posts were to show at least some evidence suggest some do rate or want to sign Lindelof. Its a very simple point

Ive said plenty of times Im not saying one is better than the other. Just calling out a statement made with very little supporting evidence
He was not too high profile when we bought Lindelof. Please lets stop it, he only became too highprofile the season before we bought him. His profile was lesser than Lindelofs before that. Hence one had many European clubs chasing him and the other was playing for Leicester. Its very simple whats being said yet the mental gymnastics being played out is incredible.

One has had plenty of European clubs interested in his services and the other has not. So it makes no sense to say all European clubs would pick Maguire just because he is now an 80m CB is what I have been saying
Pep made a statement that he wanted Maguire. No manager or club had made the statement they wanted Lindelof. Your statement makes less sense.
 

Cassidy

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Pep made a statement that he wanted Maguire. No manager or club had made the statement they wanted Lindelof. Your statement makes less sense.
It doesnt since I have not stated that any club would choose Lindelof over Maguire. Again completely missing the point
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It doesnt since I have not stated that any club would choose Lindelof over Maguire. Again completely missing the point
''Hence one had many European clubs chasing him and the other was playing for Leicester. '' " One has had plenty of European clubs interested in his services and the other has not. "

These statements of yours just completely lack of evidence compared to the fact that Pep made statement that he wanted Maguire.
 

Litch

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I think the problem is irrespective of what he is now, some people are fixed on what he was when he first arrived. Clear that some of the myths attributed to him aren't true and whilst he's not vidic or Rio, but don't think he's solely the problem. It's worrying that you buy a CB for 80m then have to spend another 60m to cover the 80m defenders lack of pace etc. Even more worrying that we are creating a graveyard of CB's and still can't get it right.
 

Cassidy

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''Hence one had many European clubs chasing him and the other was playing for Leicester. '' " One has had plenty of European clubs interested in his services and the other has not. "

These statements of yours just completely lack of evidence compared to the fact that Pep made statement that he wanted Maguire.
Are u suggesting that there is no evidence of clubs chasing Lindelof whilst he was at Benfica. Ok. Right.

Anyway the point remains there is no evidence that all European clubs would choose one over the other. That is the point. So I wont reply again
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Are u suggesting that there is no evidence of clubs chasing Lindelof whilst he was at Benfica. Ok. Right.

Anyway the point remains there is no evidence that all European clubs would choose one over the other. That is the point. So I wont reply again
Who are these clubs? That's the million dollar question we have been asking you.
 

MadDogg

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He’s so bad he doesn’t even try to win 50/50 duels. That’s why his percentage is high. Show me statistics of how many defensive corners those CBs has cleared aerially. Or offensive corners they have headed.
He's not bad in the air anymore. He certainly was when he first joined, but fair dues to him he obviously worked on it and improved significantly. Obviously he's not 'good' either, but he's improved to the point that he's now decent. He wins most of the balls that he should win, but he also won't win too many of the balls that the attacker is favourite for.

It's the same with his pace. I see some people saying he's slow, some others saying he's fast (they must be comparing him to Maguire), when in reality he's just got decent pace. Its not a strength, it's not a weakness, it's just smack bang in the middle of average.
 

Mr PG

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Got bullied by Mane for the liverpool goal(not given) and Obafemi. He's excellent against passing teams such as City/Wolves but gets easily bullied by the rest.
 

Foxbatt

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Got bullied by Mane for the liverpool goal(not given) and Obafemi. He's excellent against passing teams such as City/Wolves but gets easily bullied by the rest.
He didn't get bullied by Vardy either.
 

He'sRaldo

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So how many goals have we conceded because Lindelof backed off and gave a clear shot? I can only remember the one you picked and from that distance it should be safe to give a clear shot, because DDG should be able to handle it. Could be more goals but do t think this is a big and costly problem really. Most of the time he follows the attacker quite well and close and stalls them or forces them to pass the ball backwards.
What I'm highlighting is the timid mentality Lindelof has, where he leaves responsibility to others. I don't need to see a goal conceded to know that that's not the mentality a United CB should have, especially given the calibre of CB's we've had in the past.

With that said, he has improved on that front gradually throughout this season, but it's clear that it's outside his comfort zone. The most natural thing for him is to shirk responsibility, and because of that it's hard to ever fully take to him.
 

ghagua

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He’s so bad he doesn’t even try to win 50/50 duels. That’s why his percentage is high. Show me statistics of how many defensive corners those CBs has cleared aerially. Or offensive corners they have headed.
Nailed it. He won't win double-digit in headers if they were contested. He even fails when completely uncontested.
 

yan man utd

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This debate seems to be getting sillier. It’s like saying Zlatan who basically p*ssed off everyone in the dressing room and gave the ball away all the time is better than Messi.

It is evident that Maguire and Lindelöf are not a good combination because of our recessive / passive back peddling and giving up of ground in that vital area between half way line and penalty area.

let’s not take it on another level and somehow try to argue that Lindelöf is anywhere near as good as Maguire. Lindelöf could look good next to a super dynamic fast and aggressive defender, but Maguire is basically a much more intimidating and ball playing version of Lindelöf and a defender who has no fear and knows when to step out. Lindelöf looks terrified half the time and knocks it out of play far too often and backs off the opposition far too often. He panics - simple. If you have played football you know.

this is compounded by a passive, nervous goalkeeper who lacks confidence, ball playing skills and totally lacks command of his penalty area.Lindelöf is not awful but you HAVE to look at it from the oppositions point of view.

I would love to play against Lindelöf, too easy and as for de Gea he never comes out for a cross and he looks like he is bolemic. He is getting paid so much money (so is Lindelöf - who looks like a chancer to me - he doesn’t look like he belongs in the first team)

de gea should be in the gym beefing himself.

we also need a dynamic DM

all this talk about sancho and grealish - I want them but we need 3 fecking players in the defensive area of the pitch

how anyone can’t see this I don’t know. I want us to improved I honestly can’t believe a Man Utd fan who doesn’t want us to improve thinks that Lindelöf, and de gea have been good enough over the last 2 seasons.
 

Yagami

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Regarding his heading, one thing that goes under the radar is, when he actually wins a header, he either gets little to no strength on it, or just heads it without any sense of direction; often dropping to an opposition player anyway, that it still becomes problematic.

It's not just him that's a problem in this regard. AWB & de Gea are liabilities when defending aerial balls, too. Maguire and Shaw can't be expected to defend every aerial ball alone.
 

izec

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This debate seems to be getting sillier. It’s like saying Zlatan who basically p*ssed off everyone in the dressing room and gave the ball away all the time is better than Messi.

It is evident that Maguire and Lindelöf are not a good combination because of our recessive / passive back peddling and giving up of ground in that vital area between half way line and penalty area.

let’s not take it on another level and somehow try to argue that Lindelöf is anywhere near as good as Maguire. Lindelöf could look good next to a super dynamic fast and aggressive defender, but Maguire is basically a much more intimidating and ball playing version of Lindelöf and a defender who has no fear and knows when to step out. Lindelöf looks terrified half the time and knocks it out of play far too often and backs off the opposition far too often. He panics - simple. If you have played football you know.

this is compounded by a passive, nervous goalkeeper who lacks confidence, ball playing skills and totally lacks command of his penalty area.Lindelöf is not awful but you HAVE to look at it from the oppositions point of view.

I would love to play against Lindelöf, too easy and as for de Gea he never comes out for a cross and he looks like he is bolemic. He is getting paid so much money (so is Lindelöf - who looks like a chancer to me - he doesn’t look like he belongs in the first team)

de gea should be in the gym beefing himself.

we also need a dynamic DM

all this talk about sancho and grealish - I want them but we need 3 fecking players in the defensive area of the pitch

how anyone can’t see this I don’t know. I want us to improved I honestly can’t believe a Man Utd fan who doesn’t want us to improve thinks that Lindelöf, and de gea have been good enough over the last 2 seasons.
i can see it. I have said numerous times that our central defensive spine isnt good enough (DM, CB, GK). I think we definitely need a DM and CB this summer

But we also need Sancho and squad depth as well. Bit we wont go out and buy 5 players this summer, only 2-3.
 

A-man

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What I'm highlighting is the timid mentality Lindelof has, where he leaves responsibility to others. I don't need to see a goal conceded to know that that's not the mentality a United CB should have, especially given the calibre of CB's we've had in the past.

With that said, he has improved on that front gradually throughout this season, but it's clear that it's outside his comfort zone. The most natural thing for him is to shirk responsibility, and because of that it's hard to ever fully take to him.
You are referring to some kind of romantic picture of the old classic CB who was to be tough and took care of things himself. What you think is leaving responsibility is cooperation and working as a unit. And the reason why you don’t see conceded goals because of it, is because it works.