I'm his biggest critic but I was pleasantly surprised. Thought he was pretty good V spurs. Didn't really put a foot wrong.
Hopefully he plays like that more often.
Hopefully he plays like that more often.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
It's actually a very basic premise of defending, don't risk getting beaten as last man unless you are absolutely certain of making the tackle. Slow the attacker down or push them out wide and wait for other defenders to get back.
Yeah I agree, he won 100% of his aerial duels yesterday so hopefully that's a step in the right direction. I've been frustrated with him this season but I've always kept faith that the things that seem to have been missing in his game can be acquired with time and hard work.
Good game and good cooperation between him, Fred, McT and Maguire. The CBs often moved up to help the midfield, and vice versa. Yesterday it was very hard to penetrate the central defence with those four in the way.
I’m still curious why he hits those long balls along the side. He started with this a few matches ago, almost like it is an order from Ole. It is always 3-4 long balls in the first 20 minutes, then nothing.
From one situation I wouldn’t be able to tell if this was on purpose or not, but he has used this way of defending 10-15 times now over the last seasons and it has never been a goal conceded. I think his main focus is to make sure the attacker can only move outwards, to a worse angle. The way he is positioned makes it very difficult to dribble him or cut in. I can understand if you prefer more aggressive methods, like being close, trying to steal the ball, trying to tackle, etc, like most of the other United CBs would do, but this is the way he often does it and has nothing to do with cowardness.
I’m still curious why he hits those long balls along the side. He started with this a few matches ago, almost like it is an order from Ole. It is always 3-4 long balls in the first 20 minutes, then nothing.
From one situation I wouldn’t be able to tell if this was on purpose or not, but he has used this way of defending 10-15 times now over the last seasons and it has never been a goal conceded. I think his main focus is to make sure the attacker can only move outwards, to a worse angle. The way he is positioned makes it very difficult to dribble him or cut in. I can understand if you prefer more aggressive methods, like being close, trying to steal the ball, trying to tackle, etc, like most of the other United CBs would do, but this is the way he often does it and has nothing to do with cowardness.
He was excellent yesterday.
True, and it's not even "advanced defending" or anything. This is what you get taught as a defender as a kid even. Try to force the attacker outwards toward the sidelines whilst staying between the attacker and the goal. It's just schoolbook defending, and IMO he did it well. Sure, once in a while the attacker fires off a fluke shot that almost goes in (which happened) but you still do this, because 90% of the times it's better to frustrate the attacker to take shots at shitty angles than to try to attack the ball. Especially, especially, if you're the last defender defending without support, you don't attack the ball unless you are 100% sure you can take it, because if you fail, you're effectively giving the attacker a 90% goal chance. Better to have him fire off a shot from that angle, because with a keeper like DeGea, they very rarely go in.
Cant just everybody understand that Lindelofs biggest weakness isnt that he is a bad defender, or that he doesnt have the qualities to be a top-defender. His weakness is really one thing, and obviously a big thing, and that is his inconsistency. A lot of people come to this thread everytime he has a bad game and writes that they dont see any quality at all. Then he has a great game and people take back everything they said. Its just stupid.
Cant we just together agree that Lindelof has qualities to be a world-class defender, which he proved yesterday, but still is a extremely inconsistent at the moment?
Cant we just together agree that Lindelof has qualities to be a world-class defender, which he proved yesterday, but still is a extremely inconsistent at the moment?
Also thought he was very good last night... a lot more commanding, which is nice to see.
Yeah this is bizarre - especially as like you say it's only in the first 20 minutes or so... but all our defenders bar AWB do it, so probably is an instruction of some sort.
The whole team has been inconsistent, not just Lindelof. I think he's a good defender and he's probably getting even better. But I don't think he can be what I mean is a world-class defender. Unfortunately.
But he has many good qualities and, in my opinion, is the most stable and complete defender we currently have next to Maguire. Against Tottenham he made a very good effort, our best defender in that match.
Excellent again. Against world class attack.
What a huge misstake. In my opinion he should rush towards Son, a proper slide tackle would have been preferable.
HE has done it several times and never been a problem for a world class keeper as DDG. Has nothing to do with being a coward or not.
He seems to always play better against better teams, and especially teams who like to play fast on the ground.
It is probably some instructions they've got, and has to do with tactics to break down the opposition's pressure.
I disagree. I don't think he was making a mistake at all, except for slipping, but those things happen.
What Lindelöf is doing is blocking space for any potential shot. This is just how he plays. It may make DDG look even better sometimes because he has less potential space between the posts to worry about. This is teamwork between the defender and goalkeeper to easier be able to anticipate where any potential shot will come and thus be able to save it. Tackling or getting too close and you might give up that space for a well-placed shot. Not to mention tackling may result in a penalty as well. Losing your guy in these situations can easily lead to a goal.
If Ole didn't like him playing this way, I'm sure he'd be told to change it, but he's obviously not getting that instruction.
Yeah, guess it's a good way against teams that play with a high press and their defenders quite high. Pushes them back
Sarcasm, my man.
Sorry, didn't quite catch that because, you know, all the things you read here...
But there were opinions from others that he somehow did something wrong there so I suppose my post wasn't in vain, just targeted to the wrong person.
Of course he has. Like I said, it's basic schoolbook defending.
As for being a coward or not (I never said anyone was, for the record): you aren't a coward if you play at Old Trafford, simple as that.
It's not like any one defender never lets a shot through, you know. Scrutinize any game with a world class defender and you'll surely find many examples as this one.
This clip is actually a good example for showing that defending in football is a full team effort, and that no player should be analyzed in a vacuum.
Key word being certain. Lindelof isn't acting with certainty, which makes it look impossible to win the ball, when in fact it is not. Nobody is contesting the premise you brought up of defending 1vs1 as the last man. You're operating on the notion that the only alternative is to expect him launch himself to the ground early with bad timing and fail, which nobody has suggested he should do, at all.
He was very sharp yesterday. Impressive performance.
I am absolutely certain that Lindelof is one of the best centre backs in the league and if he was at almost any other club he would be recognised as such. If he was at Leicester this season he'd be twice the player that Soyuncu has been. If he'd have been at Liverpool last year they'd have won the league. He's better than any centre back from City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Leicester.
His biggest weakness is that he has no physical attributes. He played well last night though, but I’m sceptical about him being a long term mainstay.
Good post
Statman Dave is a bullshit artist
Like many of our players, seems to get way over the top praise for a 7 our of 10 performance (and probably way over the top criticism for a 5 out of 10). He had little to do against Spurs... better teams still seem to find it easy to trouble him. Overall I remain unconvinced.
Arsenal, yes. The others, I can't agree.
I would take Rudiger over him for sure. Probably Stones or Soyuncu too. And Tomori is very promising.
That's a big problem though, inconsistency. I'll take inconsistency from young forwards who play with flair trying to open up the game with a trick or two.
But a defender? Sorry, I like my defenders consistent, conservative, no-nonsense aggressive types. An inconsistent defender creates doubt in the team, causes problems and loses you games.
Coming from the man behind nuanced posts like this:
I'll stick with Statman Dave, thanks.
Log off Maja Nilsson, you've had too many...
Thanks! @GifLord !
The point is both Trezequet's shot and Son's chance should have never happened if he actually got closer. Son's shot actually got through and was on target if not for Fred's interception.
[Disclaimer: Mcguire would have got equal blame from me for wtf he was doing, if Son's shot went in. Also AWB to a lesser extent]
Not conceding is not equal to good defending if you're allowing easy chances, easy ball travel distances, easy shots being fired away etc.
It's like playing a square pass when you can pass it forward. Sure the square pass finds a team mate and you can praise 'ball retention' but it's not if that is your go-to-move. It's a net-negative attribute.
It's not these one or two highlighted incidents, it's his all round general tendancy to play like every attacker is Messi.Too much respect and too stand-offish.
I hope he can channel the aggressiveness and proactive defending he was showing in the 2nd half but those performances are the exception to the rule.
As @MikeKing has said above nobody is saying he needs gets touch tight or commit by sticking a foot in. There's a middle ground between being two arm lengths away and selling yourself short. In fact what you have all admitted above is exactly the problem; what he is doing is extremely basic to the point he's actually ineffective. He's simply sheppherding with no intensity and hoping his body position/covering teammates will help.
The point is both Trezequet's shot and Son's chance should have never happened if he actually got closer. Son's shot actually got through and was on target if not for Fred's interception.
[Disclaimer: Mcguire would have got equal blame from me for wtf he was doing, if Son's shot went in. Also AWB to a lesser extent]
Not conceding is not equal to good defending if you're allowing easy chances, easy ball travel distances, easy shots being fired away etc.
It's like playing a square pass when you can pass it forward. Sure the square pass finds a team mate and you can praise 'ball retention' but it's not if that is your go-to-move. It's a net-negative attribute.
It's not these one or two highlighted incidents, it's his all round general tendancy to play like every attacker is Messi.Too much respect and too stand-offish.
I hope he can channel the aggressiveness and proactive defending he was showing in the 2nd half but those performances are the exception to the rule.
All these 'media personalities' that make a living from clicks and mentions and this and that are bullshit artists. They sell nothing but hype. I'll forgotten more than he'll ever know about footie
Well congratulations you've kept that well hidden in your posts.
First of all, there was never a Trezeguet chance as he was forced to shoot from an impossible angle.
The chance with Son, yes he could have got closer. He slipped and when he got up he is trying as fast as possible to help AWB who more or less has lost his man (Son), and trying to block the potential shot. It was a messy situation involving half the defence. Maguire hit a very unfriendly pass to Young who tried dribble but failed. Lindelof slipped, and AWB managed to end up on the wrong side of his man and did not challenge at all. Then the whole defence were on a distance of a meter from Son. There was no one getting close. This was one of very few chances they created.
Are you saying that our other defenders never do something similar or what are you actually on about? The cherry-picking of mistakes and talking about them as if it's something unique to Lindelöf is really something else in this thread. It's almost as if a defender should never make a single mistake ever, and that defending is something every player does alone, not as a team, to you guys. At least when we're talking about Lindelöf.
He had a great game, they won, he was hailed by OGS, he recieved high ratings in the press, and yet you guys cling onto two situations (one which happened after another teammate f-d up earlier, or maybe both, I don't even remember what happened before the out-of-angle shot that didn't go in). I mean, you don't even have conceded goals to rant about, you're left to almost-conceded-goals-situations to maintain the Lindelöf hate. It's simply unrealistic.
Probably all over it if it was Smalling.
Not for me he's not, he's weak in the challenge and he's weak in aerial duels.
Maybe has the odd good game but I still think we can get a better player in that position.
Been saying this. The hate train in here is really unbelievable. Even when conceding among the least in the league, the defense sucks. Even when scoring among the least in the league, the defense is still the issue, and particularly Lindelöf. I think people have unrealistic expectations and seem to nitpick every single step as if any player would only play perfect matches. I see Rashford screwing up several times in basically every match, but nah, we lose points because of Lindelöf and how bad he is in situations where the opponent doesn't even score.
Good summary. When you get lost as some in this thread seem to have done, it becomes just embarrassing and pathetic.
No physical strengths and his defensive workrate/pro-activity where he wins the ball very few times compared to what are considered the best CBs around.
On average he makes 0.7 tackles, 0.8 interceptions, 3.6 clearances and wins 2.6 aerials
You wont find Liverpool, City or Leicester's CBs doing that little, maybe even Chelsea's. In fact there are only 7 CBs in the league who have played 10 games or more and who's workrate is that low. There are 25 with higher.
- Status