Victor Lindelof image 2

Victor Lindelof Sweden flag

2020-21 Performances


View full 2020-21 profile

6.0 Season Average Rating
Appearances
12
Clean sheets
4
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
1

Zlatan Ibrahomovic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
82
Pretty good game. Lost a few duels but played good enough with Maguire beside him.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
2,461
Location
Copenhagen
Pretty good game. Lost a few duels but played good enough with Maguire beside him.
This. We played a very good team away from home and they barely had a chance all game. When you play DCL you prepare for the second ball. And we did. However, on their goal he could have done better, but it was not really a big deal (AWB in that situation on the other hand...).
 

Mike_Gustav

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
3
I only say this, He had a good evening. If someone make him pay for one goal then same should blame offensive line. If you make one misstake as defender why not do same to attack line?
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
47,415
Location
Hope, We Lose
I’m not sure where you get your stats from? Lindeof lost 3 aerials, not 6.
Those are the ones where he came close enough to be counted in the duel. When Calvert-Lewin takes the ball out of the air for free it doesnt count
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
47,415
Location
Hope, We Lose


The blue dots are an aerial duel won by a United player. The red are won by Everton. All 7 of the top red dots are 7 of Calvert-Lewin's 9 wins. The top one is obviously in AWB's area

The 6 in United right midfield are from long balls from the back where Calvert-Lewin won against Lindelof akin to Fellaini Vs. United in that same area in the same match. McTominay may have been beaten in some of them as thats also his area of the pitch in normal play, RCM.

All 3 of the blue dots in United's box were won by Maguire. Lindelof's 1 win is the 2nd top blue, pushing further forward than the cluster of aerial balls that Calvert-Lewin won
All. AWB also had one win inside our box that isnt shown as hes not selected here

McTominay's 1 win is the furthest forward blue dot
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
6,252
I know Calvert-Lewin is superb in the air but it is appalling that you're surprised when your centre half actually beats the centre forward to a header lumped up from the back. He's absolutely atrocious in the air but I thought otherwise he played ok.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
Those are the ones where he came close enough to be counted in the duel. When Calvert-Lewin takes the ball out of the air for free it doesnt count
Yes, that’s how they always count. It’s the same for everybody. Lindelof also won more aerials but they didn’t count as duels because he wasn’t challenged enough to call it a duel. Same for everybody.

The map you’re showing is based on the same stats, the aerial duels. If it is not considered a duel it’s not in there. Lindelof lost all together 3 duels, AWB 5 and Maguire 2.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
47,415
Location
Hope, We Lose
Yes, that’s how they always count. It’s the same for everybody. Lindelof also won more aerials but they didn’t count as duels because he wasn’t challenged enough to call it a duel. Same for everybody.

The map you’re showing is based on the same stats, the aerial duels. If it is not considered a duel it’s not in there. Lindelof lost all together 3 duels, AWB 5 and Maguire 2.
Lindelof was the one failing to do enough to count as a duel. Thats the point.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
Lindelof was the one failing to do enough to count as a
duel. Thats the point.
Which ones do you mean? As Inremember he lost about 3 aerials but I didn’t really count them. Do you have any examples?

At 1:54 is an example where Lindelof won an aerial but it doesn’t count in the stats because Calvert-Lewin didn’t challenge enough. That’s how the stats work. Especially Maguire wins many more aerials than he get statistic cred for.
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
16,070
Supports
Ole Ole Ole
He and Maguire could hardly contain Calvert alone. If Richarlison was playing, it might be much different story.
 

Davie Moyes

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
364
Location
Up North
Calvert-Lewin has and will continue to bully elite central defenders in the air. Seems a strange reason to be very critical of what was overall quite a good performance. Especially when Calvert-Lewin was generally kept very quiet, despite being almost unplayable in most of Everton’s games so far this season.
This basically. It seems to read a sensible or good post on the Cafe these days I have to filter by a select few of the old brigade posters like yourself otherwise I'm wondering what I'm reading most of the time.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,255
Location
DownUnder
A bit surprising that Maguire did not go for those long balls. It was long time in the air.
Not how this defensive unit works, having 1 defender challenging for most heads would leave many many gaps and be counter productive. Maguire won numerous vital headers in the area, he’s just not going to cover Lindelof on his side of the pitch outside the box as it’s not his role.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
47,415
Location
Hope, We Lose
Which ones do you mean? As Inremember he lost about 3 aerials but I didn’t really count them. Do you have any examples?

At 1:54 is an example where Lindelof won an aerial but it doesn’t count in the stats because Calvert-Lewin didn’t challenge enough. That’s how the stats work. Especially Maguire wins many more aerials than he get statistic cred for.
I know how it works, we had this conversation already. The point is that a lot of the time Lindelof doesnt even register in the duels because he tried but didnt even get close to challenging for the ball. Whereas Maguire won 3 in the box, AWB won 1 and Lindelof won 0.
 

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
42,224


The blue dots are an aerial duel won by a United player. The red are won by Everton. All 7 of the top red dots are 7 of Calvert-Lewin's 9 wins. The top one is obviously in AWB's area

The 6 in United right midfield are from long balls from the back where Calvert-Lewin won against Lindelof akin to Fellaini Vs. United in that same area in the same match. McTominay may have been beaten in some of them as thats also his area of the pitch in normal play, RCM.

All 3 of the blue dots in United's box were won by Maguire. Lindelof's 1 win is the 2nd top blue, pushing further forward than the cluster of aerial balls that Calvert-Lewin won
All. AWB also had one win inside our box that isnt shown as hes not selected here

McTominay's 1 win is the furthest forward blue dot
I cant look at this without wondering who on earth decided to put the blue dots as United and the red dots as Everton? Absolute animals.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
I know how it works, we had this conversation already. The point is that a lot of the time Lindelof doesnt even register in the duels because he tried but didnt even get close to challenging for the ball. Whereas Maguire won 3 in the box, AWB won 1 and Lindelof won 0.
I can’t even remember them winning any header in the box close to Lindelof. Maguire lost one header which Calvert-Lewin got on goal, but apart from that it was quite calm in the box, everything easily cleared away. That includes Lindeof clearing in the box.
.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
7,223
Not how this defensive unit works, having 1 defender challenging for most heads would leave many many gaps and be counter productive. Maguire won numerous vital headers in the area, he’s just not going to cover Lindelof on his side of the pitch outside the box as it’s not his role.
That's how Rio and Vidic worked Rio said. Vidic goes with their CF to head the balls and Rio drops back.
 

Bobski

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
3,958
When Utd played Duncan Ferguson Utd accepted they were going to lose a lot of aerial duels and defended the second ball. DMC is one of the best in the air since Dunc, they defended well for the most part.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
42,391
Location
Munich
I like him and have been one of his biggest supporters here, but that was a bad performance, no doubt there.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,252
That's how Rio and Vidic worked Rio said. Vidic goes with their CF to head the balls and Rio drops back.
That's the plan but but it doesn't work like that every single time an aerial ball comes, Rio still had to head the ball at times. Looking at aerial duels is a pointless stat for a team that was primarily to press the ball player and then win the second ball.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,207
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
A bit surprising that Maguire did not go for those long balls. It was long time in the air.
Yes, but at the same time it’s not. The cost is mostly higher than the gain letting CB’s swap around like that, losing formations, inviting runs etc. For long balls against a specialist like Calvert’Lewin it’s usually enough to give him enough reisitance that he can’t deliver clear through balls, and then deal with the second balls. We mostly did that well on Saturday, with the exception of AwB being punished rather harshly for uncertain press in the goal situation, and being a bit rash in the tackle on the flukey DCL-gets-the-ball-from-hiss-own-header-situation. Apart from that, CL got free from Maguire once to make a bit of a scary deflection once, otherwise I thought we dealt well with him as a team, even if he is evidently in form and they set him up a lot.

As this is a Lindelöf thread, I’ll add that I though did ok on his tasks for the most parts, but like the rest of the team was guilty in the 2nd half of ceding possession too easily.

Looking at the season so far, he’s been our best and most important defender by far, with Shaw starting slowly, AWB starting slowly and then wobbling a bit, Maguire to me still not being as good as last season and it would seem to be his head that is trailing abit, and Bailly and Tuanzebe both showing glimpses of heaven and hell. As for Tuanzebe, I still have very high hopes for him and hope/expects him to take Lindelöf’s spot in the shorter or longer run, though I was a bit miffed seeing how chaotically he played with Maguiere when he played so orderly with Lindelöf. But it’stwo games, so I’ll not put too much into that.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
6,318
I think he done well, we all know he isnt the greatest in the air and he was coming up against the best in the league at jumping and hold up play.

We have seen where managers would put in a DM to deal with the headers so that the CB's can mop up. Maybe if we said to McTominay, from goal kicks stay on DLC and make it hard for him. Saying that, they didnt really cause us that many problems.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
Hope he isn't off to play in Denmark this Wednesday as sportsman are not exempt from the isolation when coming back here.

Appears United will not release him for this game, sensible.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/man-united-lindelof-sweden-news-19247139
I think there were all together four Swedish players in the PL that were stopped from playing with the National team. Lindelof was one of them. I think all PL teams have agreed to not allow any players to travel.
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
76,699
Location
Barrow In Furness
I think there were all together four Swedish players in the PL that were stopped from playing with the National team. Lindelof was one of them. I think all PL teams have agreed to not allow any players to travel.
Sensible decision. They will join up for the Euro games rather than this friendly.
 

georgipep

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
659
Location
Not far enough
Yes, but at the same time it’s not. The cost is mostly higher than the gain letting CB’s swap around like that, losing formations, inviting runs etc. For long balls against a specialist like Calvert’Lewin it’s usually enough to give him enough reisitance that he can’t deliver clear through balls, and then deal with the second balls. We mostly did that well on Saturday, with the exception of AwB being punished rather harshly for uncertain press in the goal situation, and being a bit rash in the tackle on the flukey DCL-gets-the-ball-from-hiss-own-header-situation. Apart from that, CL got free from Maguire once to make a bit of a scary deflection once, otherwise I thought we dealt well with him as a team, even if he is evidently in form and they set him up a lot.
Even when DCL got ahead of Maguire for that scary deflection, Maguire did enough to put him off balance and make it a very, very difficult execution move.

As this is a Lindelöf thread, I’ll add that I though did ok on his tasks for the most parts, but like the rest of the team was guilty in the 2nd half of ceding possession too easily.

Looking at the season so far, he’s been our best and most important defender by far, with Shaw starting slowly, AWB starting slowly and then wobbling a bit, Maguire to me still not being as good as last season and it would seem to be his head that is trailing abit, and Bailly and Tuanzebe both showing glimpses of heaven and hell. As for Tuanzebe, I still have very high hopes for him and hope/expects him to take Lindelöf’s spot in the shorter or longer run, though I was a bit miffed seeing how chaotically he played with Maguiere when he played so orderly with Lindelöf. But it’stwo games, so I’ll not put too much into that.
I think Tuanzebe and Maguire may be suffering from both wanting to be leading the line. You could see that with Lindelof it is not a problem because he doesn't care for every ball to be played by him. While Maguire does have that in him and I can imagine a similar sync is missing when keeping an organized line in defending. (or I may be stretching massively, I don't know)
 

Borys

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
3,503
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
I think we should consider playing McTominay in the back 3 when facing teams that will sit back. There will be a lot of hoofball and I as much as I rate Lindelof, I have little confidence in him winning aerial duels and we could be much more solid at the back with Scott. He does play for Scotland at the back doesn't he?
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,255
Location
DownUnder
That's how Rio and Vidic worked Rio said. Vidic goes with their CF to head the balls and Rio drops back.
Sorry but current team isn’t managed by Sir Alex, nor do we possess 2 world class central defenders. If that’s how they were coached, it’s not how the current incumbents are, so pretty irrelevant.
That said I can still recall how Rio used to deal with Crouch, so wasn’t always Vida heading the ball.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
7,223
Maybe he is a better organiser than Maguire. He is not as bad as some make him out to be. But his problems with AWB when the ball is in the air needs to be sorted out ASAP.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
1,487
The Iceman is a bit too shambolic for a United CB, but he's definitely reduced the number of bonehead mistakes. However, he's an easy mark for a 9 who knows what he's doing.

Fingers crossed Tuanzebe can develop quickly enough to take over the role with Maguire after the first of the year.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
Yes, but at the same time it’s not. The cost is mostly higher than the gain letting CB’s swap around like that, losing formations, inviting runs etc. For long balls against a specialist like Calvert’Lewin it’s usually enough to give him enough reisitance that he can’t deliver clear through balls, and then deal with the second balls. We mostly did that well on Saturday, with the exception of AwB being punished rather harshly for uncertain press in the goal situation, and being a bit rash in the tackle on the flukey DCL-gets-the-ball-from-hiss-own-header-situation. Apart from that, CL got free from Maguire once to make a bit of a scary deflection once, otherwise I thought we dealt well with him as a team, even if he is evidently in form and they set him up a lot.
What many teams do in those situations are to handle the second ball as you say. AWB did that on the goal but lost the 1v1 and let the shot go through to “his” corner of the goal. One common way is to have a defensive midfielder giving the trouble and the CB covering behind, especially on the long balls we all know Pickford likes to hit. In the goal situation Fred is fully available to do that job.

I think this tactics, to handle the second balls, confuse some people that a defence is poor.
But like you wrote, they handled the second balls pretty good and there were all together very few chances. I can’t remember DDG doing even one save. If I compare our defence with how Liverpool handled Everton just a month ago, this was better IMO.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,207
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
What many teams do in those situations are to handle the second ball as you say. AWB did that on the goal but lost the 1v1 and let the shot go through to “his” corner of the goal. One common way is to have a defensive midfielder giving the trouble and the CB covering behind, especially on the long balls we all know Pickford likes to hit. In the goal situation Fred is fully available to do that job.

I think this tactics, to handle the second balls, confuse some people that a defence is poor.
But like you wrote, they handled the second balls pretty good and there were all together very few chances. I can’t remember DDG doing even one save. If I compare our defence with how Liverpool handled Everton just a month ago, this was better IMO.
Yes, a goal and prior history will skew the stories people spread. Lindelöf is not strong in the air, but again, I think there is an exaggeration to say he is weak, or a weak point, because I think it is seldom we get into real trouble from situations where he is in an aerial dual. At leadt compared to what is normal from even top teams. Of course Maguire and Thiago Silva is much better in the air, but not many teams have two regular CB’s who both are more effecient at defending high balls.
Against Everton, I think defensive positioning and ball retention was much bigger defensive problems than lost aerial duels. Bernard scoring there was a one in ten against Wan Bissaka and De Gea, whereas Docoure would score at least six in ten following the messy positioning between Maguire, Tuanzebe, Fred and Rashford(?) I think it was. Of course they were tired and Everton threw men forward at that point, but it’s typical that we scrutinize the Bernard situation more than the Docoure one, even if the latter was a more dangerous situation with more definite mistakes in it.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,761
Yes, a goal and prior history will skew the stories people spread. Lindelöf is not strong in the air, but again, I think there is an exaggeration to say he is weak, or a weak point, because I think it is seldom we get into real trouble from situations where he is in an aerial dual. At leadt compared to what is normal from even top teams. Of course Maguire and Thiago Silva is much better in the air, but not many teams have two regular CB’s who both are more effecient at defending high balls.
Against Everton, I think defensive positioning and ball retention was much bigger defensive problems than lost aerial duels. Bernard scoring there was a one in ten against Wan Bissaka and De Gea, whereas Docoure would score at least six in ten following the messy positioning between Maguire, Tuanzebe, Fred and Rashford(?) I think it was. Of course they were tired and Everton threw men forward at that point, but it’s typical that we scrutinize the Bernard situation more than the Docoure one, even if the latter was a more dangerous situation with more definite mistakes in it.
I agree with this. There are very few top teams that have two aerially dominant centre backs. I would say Liverpool last season was an exception, and maybe there are a few more, but it is not like it is standard. The goal conceded was a serie of things going wrong and a good performance by Everton.

If we talk about Lindelof, I think his main weaknesses are in the air and not being aggressive enough. The aerials improved a little last season and this season it looks as he has addressed the problem with not being aggressive. Hopefully he can improve more. Some say he isn't fast enough, but he has decent speed and is rarely beaten for speed. Most of the time he gets the critique when he fails to cover for Maguire, but there is a huge space to cover behind the line. This is something Tuanzebe, who is a bit faster, found out the hard way against Istanbul.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,207
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
I agree with this. There are very few top teams that have two aerially dominant centre backs. I would say Liverpool last season was an exception, and maybe there are a few more, but it is not like it is standard. The goal conceded was a serie of things going wrong and a good performance by Everton.

If we talk about Lindelof, I think his main weaknesses are in the air and not being aggressive enough. The aerials improved a little last season and this season it looks as he has addressed the problem with not being aggressive. Hopefully he can improve more. Some say he isn't fast enough, but he has decent speed and is rarely beaten for speed. Most of the time he gets the critique when he fails to cover for Maguire, but there is a huge space to cover behind the line. This is something Tuanzebe, who is a bit faster, found out the hard way against Istanbul.
Broadway the hard way, ladies and gentlemen. I have high hopes for Axel, but I think fans and pundits would do well to not underestimate how long it should be expected to and allowed to take to master the many things to do with interplay and positioning that is hard to evalute for us who don’t have the game plan.

I think Victor has been a victim of this as well, but probably more and more recognize what he brings to the defense structurally even if they are not impressed with his physicality.