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2022-23 Performances


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Paul the Wolf

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Even @golden_blunder can see he's turned in a good performance yesterday. I'm not sure what you expect from him.
It's pointless explaining, it's been gone through so many times. Then someone will come up with some statistic that his 3mph 5 yard pass did actually reach its intended target even though the target was surrounded by opposition players, or that his one tackle per game was 100% successful or that when the ball nestles in the back of the net he's usually 40 metres away from the play.

It took 22 years for people to realise that Lingard was hopeless despite numerous people defending him endlessly. 6 years in and Lindelof is still the same and the saga goes on until he finally leaves. One day.
 

Grande

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Aside from being saved early on by DeGeas big face, thought he played well after that
Agreed.
Very poor start with a big mistake that should have put us behind, but a decent game after that
Agreed.
Big mistake at the beginning, flawless after that. I like that he is being quite aggressive.
Agreed.
You've been got at, haven't you.
One good game last time out and they've converted you.

My wife had to stop me swearing to stop calling him a useless c**t tonight. Lost count how many times.

If they renew his contract I will despair.
I feel for your wife.
 

Devil You Know

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His mistake at the beginning of the match was just as bad as Maguire's from a couple of games ago.
 

Raven

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It's pointless explaining, it's been gone through so many times. Then someone will come up with some statistic that his 3mph 5 yard pass did actually reach its intended target even though the target was surrounded by opposition players, or that his one tackle per game was 100% successful or that when the ball nestles in the back of the net he's usually 40 metres away from the play.

It took 22 years for people to realise that Lingard was hopeless despite numerous people defending him endlessly. 6 years in and Lindelof is still the same and the saga goes on until he finally leaves. One day.
It seems you're basing at least part of your opinion on his early mistake. I thought he was pretty flawless after that.
 

McGrathsipan

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He's better than Maguire so if we're keeping one of him or Maguire then I hope it's Victor.
Do I want him starting in big games?
No.
 

FerociousCorgis

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He's better than Maguire so if we're keeping one of him or Maguire then I hope it's Victor.
Do I want him starting in big games?
No.
as a 3rd/4th CB feel like he is plenty good enough. Nobody is going to have 4 world class CBs. Feel like lindelof has shown at least that he can be somewhat counted on, and now we just need to add another CB rotation option to replace the outgoing (hopefully) Maguire.
 

Paul the Wolf

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It seems you're basing at least part of your opinion on his early mistake. I thought he was pretty flawless after that.
I certainly wasn't happy with the mistake but every player makes mistakes. No, it was his overall performance. The way he plays invites trouble for our defence as has been the case for the best part of six years and occasionally he doesn't have a substandard performance or against lesser teams has nothing to do. He's never evolved.

My patience is completely maxed out and we can't afford for him( or Maguire) to be even our back-up CB's next season if we want to be serious title contenders.
 

Raven

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I certainly wasn't happy with the mistake but every player makes mistakes. No, it was his overall performance. The way he plays invites trouble for our defence as has been the case for the best part of six years and occasionally he doesn't have a substandard performance or against lesser teams has nothing to do. He's never evolved.

My patience is completely maxed out and we can't afford for him( or Maguire) to be even our back-up CB's next season if we want to be serious title contenders.
Could you give a couple of examples of this from yesterday's game?
 

RedDevil@84

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as a 3rd/4th CB feel like he is plenty good enough. Nobody is going to have 4 world class CBs. Feel like lindelof has shown at least that he can be somewhat counted on, and now we just need to add another CB rotation option to replace the outgoing (hopefully) Maguire.
The problem for us is that while Varane is world class, he is injured quite easily. So the 3rd CB will play a lot more important games in the season.
 

Irwin99

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He's better than Maguire so if we're keeping one of him or Maguire then I hope it's Victor.
Do I want him starting in big games?
No.
Similar to where I am. If he stays that's fine, he's a good player, but i'd be happy to have Varane and another right sided CB fighting for that position.

If a club in Italy or Spain offered 30 million for Lindelof i'd take it.
 

Raven

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Similar to where I am. If he stays that's fine, he's a good player, but i'd be happy to have Varane and another right sided CB fighting for that position.

If a club in Italy or Spain offered 30 million for Lindelof i'd take it.
It would cost a lot more than 30 million to get a player of his quality though.
 

Lyng

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I certainly wasn't happy with the mistake but every player makes mistakes. No, it was his overall performance. The way he plays invites trouble for our defence as has been the case for the best part of six years and occasionally he doesn't have a substandard performance or against lesser teams has nothing to do. He's never evolved.

My patience is completely maxed out and we can't afford for him( or Maguire) to be even our back-up CB's next season if we want to be serious title contenders.
So who should we sign as backup instead of him?
 

ti vu

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It would cost a lot more than 30 million to get a player of his quality though.
I don't believe it's true. Akanji, Kim moved last year for less than 30mil. In some odd year we have someone like Rudiger moving for free. Even adding the sign on fee and wage different, it still would not cost much more than 30mil.

Don't believe we can get 30mil for him though. As 4th choice CB, it's not urgent matter to move him. Maguire though is what we need to look at.
 

Irwin99

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It would cost a lot more than 30 million to get a player of his quality though.
I understand that spending mega bucks on a centre back is risky but I like the idea we could buy a good young defender with great potential to partner Martinez and let Varane be more of a squad player. I guess it depends on EtH's plans and the budget but if we're looking to improve the squad then the likes of Timber or Kim min Jae seem far more exciting than seeing Lindelof stay here for his 6th or 7th season where he's only been decent at best.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Could you give a couple of examples of this from yesterday's game?
I was thinking of doing a compilation of things that some people don't seem to notice. I'd have to watch him again though.

Two incidents spring immediately to mind. After he did make that mistake in the second minute, look at his reaction after he had made that mistake including trying to blame AWB. I was more annoyed with that than the mistake itself.

On the penalty incident. He jumps and misses the ball from the corner, clatters into Shaw and another player (I think was Sancho). I actually laughed at that until the referee indicated he was looking at VAR. I hadn't noticed the handball at first. Then the ball gets cleared and the action continues over to Bruno who thumps it up in the air.
If the ball had stayed in play, look what Lindelof was doing, where he was and his reaction.

These are just a tiny selection of what drives me crazy.
 

Paul the Wolf

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So who should we sign as backup instead of him?
I'll leave that to EtH. There are a few in the PL who I think are just as bad as him like Faes, Dier.

Maguire I'm sure is definitely on his way out, will EtH sell two in the same window? Hopefully.

We need a defender with determination, strength and defensive ability plus ability on the ball. You can see why Varane and Martinez are liked by EtH. Maguire and Lindelof are the opposite. EtH has defended all of his players but I'm hoping and trusting that behind the scenes he will know exactly what he wants and will get them.
 

Lyng

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I'll leave that to EtH. There are a few in the PL who I think are just as bad as him like Faes, Dier.

Maguire I'm sure is definitely on his way out, will EtH sell two in the same window? Hopefully.

We need a defender with determination, strength and defensive ability plus ability on the ball. You can see why Varane and Martinez are liked by EtH. Maguire and Lindelof are the opposite. EtH has defended all of his players but I'm hoping and trusting that behind the scenes he will know exactly what he wants and will get them.
But if he is so bad surely you can think of at least one better defender to bring in, that is willing to be a backup only.
 

A-man

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The problem for us is that while Varane is world class, he is injured quite easily. So the 3rd CB will play a lot more important games in the season.
The bench CBs have been very important this year.

Our first pair Varane and Martinez have been important as individuals but as a pair they haven’t had any big impact on our PL season. They have these PL stats as a pair:

6 clean sheets out of our total 15.

7 wins, 5 draws and 4 losses = 26 points of our total 63.

Most our wins, our points and clean sheets come from other constellations at the back. So yes, the bench players are really important.
 
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mintyred

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What is happening now is what I thought would happen at the start of the season. Lindelof seemed like a Ten Hag player but I have a feeling he played Maguire for political reasons.

Now there is no hiding that although a limited player he’s our second best right footed CB.
 

Paul the Wolf

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But if he is so bad surely you can think of at least one better defender to bring in, that is willing to be a backup only.
Who says they have to be back-up only. Players can come in that can play themselves into the team and make themselves first choice. Our first choice partnership before EtH was Maguire and Lindelof and people wonder why we weren't winning things. Varane was brought in and spent a lot of the first season on the sidelines. This season he's played more but whether he's going to be able to play more next season than this season, who knows.

We need two players for every position, not one good and one substandard back-up . Playing 60+ games per season, we can't afford passengers.

If we sign two new CBs they have to be top quality not someone's cast-off. Eth knows who he will want and if he can get them. I don't and it's pointless speculating who that could be.
 

Lyng

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Who says they have to be back-up only. Players can come in that can play themselves into the team and make themselves first choice. Our first choice partnership before EtH was Maguire and Lindelof and people wonder why we weren't winning things. Varane was brought in and spent a lot of the first season on the sidelines. This season he's played more but whether he's going to be able to play more next season than this season, who knows.

We need two players for every position, not one good and one substandard back-up . Playing 60+ games per season, we can't afford passengers.

If we sign two new CBs they have to be top quality not someone's cast-off. Eth knows who he will want and if he can get them. I don't and it's pointless speculating who that could be.
So you want us to buy to top tier cbs along with striker, midfielder, keeper etc. We don't have endless funds and do you expect those to be fine with only playing some of the time?
 

FrankDrebin

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This is the best I've seen from Lindelf yet he still has a mistake in him. Got fortunate that Brighton were goal shy in open play.

Still prefer him over Maguire though.
 

Paul the Wolf

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So you want us to buy to top tier cbs along with striker, midfielder, keeper etc. We don't have endless funds and do you expect those to be fine with only playing some of the time?
No as I said before, two CB's and a fit goalscoring striker to compete with Martial. Can we afford 3 players? Lots of departures with Maguire and Lindelof at the front of the queue. Probably won't get much for those two but there you go.
Weird take that we have to have crap players.
 

RuudTom83

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Lindelof's talents and salary(guessing) are totally fine for a 3rd/4th choice cb.

Lindelof shouldn't be at the front of any queue to leave the club, also its massively exaggerated how many players each club can buy/sell in one transfer window.

Maguire on the other hand is the donkey in the dressing room on inflated wages who needs moving on.
 

FrankDrebin

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Agree, he's arguably the best 3rd, 4th choice CB you could really ask for. Composed (mostly), great fitness levels, experienced.
It took a while, granted.
 

MadDogg

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No as I said before, two CB's and a fit goalscoring striker to compete with Martial. Can we afford 3 players? Lots of departures with Maguire and Lindelof at the front of the queue. Probably won't get much for those two but there you go.
Weird take that we have to have crap players.
I just don't understand it. Why are two centrebacks a higher priority than first choice #8, goalkeeper, back-up defensive midfielder and arguably rightback?

We have Varane and Martinez as our first choice. With Varane being injury prone we do need a good backup, but Lindelof in that role already means that that position is a lower priority than the positions I mentioned above. If we sell both Maguire and Lindelof then yes a centreback becomes an absolute priority, but not two. Shaw's ability to play in the centre so well means we can get away with only one main back-up until we fix the positions.

Obviously in an ideal world we would have a better backup than Lindelof (one that can push Varane and ultimately take over as first choice) and a good backup on the left side so Shaw could stay at leftback. I don't think anyone will deny that. But all the positions I mentioned in my first sentence (with the possible exception of rightback) will surely make a bigger impact over the course of the season than upgrading Lindelof and Malacia/Dalot (seeing as it's them that come into the team if Shaw moves into the centre), let alone bringing in two CB's. I'd say one centreback to replace Lindelof is the #5 priority at absolute best, and a second one is way down the list.

Of course, if there's somebody we can sign for a fairly cheap price that is too good to pass up then we might have to go for it. That could either be a very good defender who can take over from Varane immediately in a good contract situation, a very promising youngster we can pick up for cheap or somebody who is capable of playing well at either centre or rightback. But the same can be said for plenty of positions in the squad.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I just don't understand it. Why are two centrebacks a higher priority than first choice #8, goalkeeper, back-up defensive midfielder and arguably rightback?

We have Varane and Martinez as our first choice. With Varane being injury prone we do need a good backup, but Lindelof in that role already means that that position is a lower priority than the positions I mentioned above. If we sell both Maguire and Lindelof then yes a centreback becomes an absolute priority, but not two. Shaw's ability to play in the centre so well means we can get away with only one main back-up until we fix the positions.

Obviously in an ideal world we would have a better backup than Lindelof (one that can push Varane and ultimately take over as first choice) and a good backup on the left side so Shaw could stay at leftback. I don't think anyone will deny that. But all the positions I mentioned in my first sentence (with the possible exception of rightback) will surely make a bigger impact over the course of the season than upgrading Lindelof and Malacia/Dalot (seeing as it's them that come into the team if Shaw moves into the centre), let alone bringing in two CB's. I'd say one centreback to replace Lindelof is the #5 priority at absolute best, and a second one is way down the list.

Of course, if there's somebody we can sign for a fairly cheap price that is too good to pass up then we might have to go for it. That could either be a very good defender who can take over from Varane immediately in a good contract situation, a very promising youngster we can pick up for cheap or somebody who is capable of playing well at either centre or rightback. But the same can be said for plenty of positions in the squad.
We have good full backs - we have an excellent goalkeeper, statman will tell you he has kept the most clean sheets in the PL. Midfield? We'll probably sign Sabitzer permanently and cheaply.
We have youngsters improving all the time like Garnacho, Pellistri, Mainoo & Antony.

The basis of a successful team is through the middle with a strong defence. Take our main CB's out and we're vulnerable. It's almost as if the past 6 years since Lindelof joined has been forgotten because he had one good game against Villa and scored a penalty in the Cup.

Statman will bring up distorted stats but I'm ready.
 

MadDogg

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We have good full backs - we have an excellent goalkeeper, statman will tell you he has kept the most clean sheets in the PL. Midfield? We'll probably sign Sabitzer permanently and cheaply.
We have youngsters improving all the time like Garnacho, Pellistri, Mainoo & Antony.

The basis of a successful team is through the middle with a strong defence. Take our main CB's out and we're vulnerable. It's almost as if the past 6 years since Lindelof joined has been forgotten because he had one good game against Villa and scored a penalty in the Cup.

Statman will bring up distorted stats but I'm ready.
De Gea hasn't been an excellent goalkeeper for five years. ETH had to change our entire gameplan of playing out from the back within a few games because of his limitations on the ball, we have one of the lowest defensive lines in the league because De Gea can't sweep, he's literally the worst keeper in the league at dealing with crosses, and the truly great saves he does make barely outnumber the mistakes that concedes a goal. He's certainly not the worst keeper in the league (there are others who do make more mistakes and are less able to make great saves), but upgrading him is definitely a higher priority.

Sabitzer is worse in midfield than Lindelof is in defence. He's been utterly anonymous and barely gets on the ball whenever he's played either of the deeper positions, which is basically the exact opposite of what you want in that position. Fred has been better in the #8 role and Scott has been better in the #6, and the latter in particular is far worse than Lindelof in their respective roles. The only time Sabitzer has looked remotely good enough has been when played at #10. A back-up for Casemiro and a proper partner for him (Eriksen has huge problems against high-intensity opponents and struggles after 60 minutes in general) are certainly higher priority.

There have been quite a few games this season that even our first choice defence has got torn apart and conceded a lot of goals, and that's more because of the limitations of the team around them than those players themselves. If Casemiro isn't there or is having a bad game there is no protection whatsoever, and our inability to hold onto the ball (thanks to basically all our players except our defenders) means we're just under wave after wave of opposition attacks. Which is why I consider the three positions above (as well as striker of course) as comfortably higher priority. Rightback is more debatable and I'd have them about even as a Lindelof upgrade, and certainly higher than a second centreback (I'd say a second striker and a right winger are also higher than that).
 

Paul the Wolf

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De Gea hasn't been an excellent goalkeeper for five years. ETH had to change our entire gameplan of playing out from the back within a few games because of his limitations on the ball, we have one of the lowest defensive lines in the league because De Gea can't sweep, he's literally the worst keeper in the league at dealing with crosses, and the truly great saves he does make barely outnumber the mistakes that concedes a goal. He's certainly not the worst keeper in the league (there are others who do make more mistakes and are less able to make great saves), but upgrading him is definitely a higher priority.

Sabitzer is worse in midfield than Lindelof is in defence. He's been utterly anonymous and barely gets on the ball whenever he's played either of the deeper positions, which is basically the exact opposite of what you want in that position. Fred has been better in the #8 role and Scott has been better in the #6, and the latter in particular is far worse than Lindelof in their respective roles. The only time Sabitzer has looked remotely good enough has been when played at #10. A back-up for Casemiro and a proper partner for him (Eriksen has huge problems against high-intensity opponents and struggles after 60 minutes in general) are certainly higher priority.

There have been quite a few games this season that even our first choice defence has got torn apart and conceded a lot of goals, and that's more because of the limitations of the team around them than those players themselves. If Casemiro isn't there or is having a bad game there is no protection whatsoever, and our inability to hold onto the ball (thanks to basically all our players except our defenders) means we're just under wave after wave of opposition attacks. Which is why I consider the three positions above (as well as striker of course) as comfortably higher priority. Rightback is more debatable and I'd have them about even as a Lindelof upgrade, and certainly higher than a second centreback (I'd say a second striker and a right winger are also higher than that).
you think DDG's crap and Lindelof isn't. Pff
 

MadDogg

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you think DDG's crap and Lindelof isn't. Pff
I think both can quite easily be upgraded, but the one who is 1st choice and plays every single game is a bigger priority than the one who is a backup. Hell, I rate Eriksen higher than either of them but I prioritise upgrading his role as first choice ahead of Lindelof's backup role as well. Simply because I see it having a bigger influence on the team and the season as a whole.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I think both can quite easily be upgraded, but the one who is 1st choice and plays every single game is a bigger priority than the one who is a backup. Hell, I rate Eriksen higher than either of them but I prioritise upgrading his role as first choice ahead of Lindelof's backup role as well. Simply because I see it having a bigger influence on the team and the season as a whole.
We still haven't lost with Casemiro/Eriksen/Bruno starting a game. Fred, McT, Mainoo, and maybe Sabitzer as cover, or another . he's only been here a few months and if he does stay expect improvement
Dalot and AWB look considerably better when they haven't got the Chuckle brothers beside them.
RW Anthony and Pellestri will get better and Sancho a first team player cover for RW & LW. Rashford and Garnacho both first team players for LW. Need a no 9.

If we play out from the back with Varane and Martinez we're Ok, with Maguire or Lindelof we are in deep sh!t. DDG is the best shotstopper and although i'd like him to be better at crosses and corners, working with EtH I expect improvement.
Maguire and Lindelof are not the future either as starters or back-up.

Whatever we think, EtH will do as he deems best and I have faith he will mould his team over the next year or so. Thus far I'm very happy with what he's doing. Blips along the way but expected.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I still wouldn’t put all he blame on Lindelof.
I didn't blame him for the penalty apart from missing the header. And apart from getting outmuscled on the touchline and not preventing the cross which led to Shaw committing the imaginary foul which led to the corner which then led to the penalty and then went AWOL until the ref blew for the penalty. Have remembered loads of other incidents in that game if you so wish.
 

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Bulldozers like Antonio have always been his weakness. As everyone knows he’s only really suited to a back-up role so we can play him in games where his strengths are suited. Unfortunately we have lost both our starting CBs and are forced to play him every game.
 
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