Vinicius Junior

MassVolto

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Vini has achieved something quite remarkable the last two seasons(20+goals&assist)... 22yrs old.
 

Real Name

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They are not. Carles Puidgemont, the now ex-president of Catalunya that pushed through the referendum, is a centre-right wing politician for example

The city of Barcelona tends to be very much left leaning, but Catalunya itself not so much
Ah thanks. Didnt know that really.
 

Denis79

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He can go anywhere but not to United please.

and he Will have similar polemics in the UK, give it time. He has a provocative style, but instead Of showing himself on the pitch, he tends to victimize himself.
Its not a coincidence that it always happens to Vinicius.
It's his fault that he's abused by fecking scum racists? Just delete your post man.
 

Revan

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The racists win every time they get to be racist with impunity. If it takes everyone to lose to start fighting racism for real, so be it
It is crazy that how heavy punishments are not a thing yet. If fans invade a stadium, game gets suspended, the team whose fans invaded loses 0-3 and potentially gets some points removed.

It should be similar to these cases of blatant racism, when a player is a target of many racists. I am not saying in cases where there is a single or two racists who abuse a player (in which case they should be identified and arrested, with the match continuing), but when there are so many racists abusing a player, there is no justification whatsoever for the match to continue.

Also, for people who are found in cameras doing racist abuse, they should be banned for life from ever entering a stadium.

This game should have suspended, I have no idea how the authorities didn't think so.
 

Niemans

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Could you explain why you ask this question?
Here all the sports commentators of Real Madrid applauding the words of Xavi. Why do you think they are bad?
 

Revan

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But why? The reasons why those words are stupid.
My guess is because it is fecking stupid talking about a red card being overturned, in a match where that player was heavily racially abused and when the match should have been suspended and people arrested.
 

WeePat

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Just for the sake of clarity, these are the full Xavi quotes.

“In general, unfortunately, there are cases of racism. Unfortunately. It’s a shame. It’s sad and unfortunate that it happens in 2023. We have to condemn them, regardless of badges, players or clubs. We must condemn them, like Vinicius yesterday in Valencia, Valencia are already doing so. Racism must be eradicated once and for all.”

The games have to be stopped. I’ve always thought so. We’re the only place where insults are accepted, it’s the only sport in which it is accepted. I’m working and they call me the son of such and such, you can imagine… I don’t see a baker or a journalist putting up with this. If there are insults, then we stop playing. It’s a message to the president of the League, the Federation…

“I don’t think I should have to put up with an insult. Insult a worker, they will throw a brick at your head. I don’t have to put up with insults during my working hours and impudence of all kinds. You have to say enough is enough.”

“It is an educational issue. You have to educate people so that they are not going to insult people on the pitch. I do not go to the theater to insult. It is not positive for society.”

“I don’t think there is much point in saying that Spain or the League is racist, but there are racist acts. And they must be condemned. We are in an environment where we are insulted and have all sorts of things said to us. We are asked to be role models, but it’s hard when they insult you the whole time. It’s hard not to get angry, and that happens to Vinicius. And to any player. You have to have a favourable environment. And that’s sad.”

I don’t know if it’s fair. In my opinion, racist acts should be condemned. What the players do on the field is a different thing. There was aggression there, so I’m surprised they rescinded the red card.”
 

MadDogg

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But why? The reasons why those words are stupid.
I'd hardly say he 'assaulted' his opponent, which is what Xavi is claiming. Both the goalkeeper (charging out of nowhere and barging into Vini, then grabbing his jersey right near the throat) and especially Duro (grabbing Vini in a choke hold around his neck) were far far far more guilty of 'assault' than he was. What Vinicius did was a direct reaction to the latter, and to be honest it was more of a push to get him away than it was a hit.

Technically it doesn't surprise me that he gets a red card for it (any kinds of reaction these days tend to get the same punishment as the guy who starts it), but the fact that he was the only one who got a red is unbelievably disgraceful refereeing even if you take the racism out of the equation. When considering the racist abuse and the fact that he was the least guilty of the three players of 'assault', why is it a surprise that it gets overturned?

Xavi has also said that games should be stopped for racist abuse so it's certainly not as bad as what people might think by the tweet, but considering everything that went on it is in very bad taste to say that he should still be getting suspended.
 

Niemans

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Whataboutism
My guess is because it is fecking stupid talking about a red card being overturned, in a match where that player was heavily racially abused and when the match should have been suspended and people arrested.
So in what cases can an aggression be justified and not receive sanction in the world of football?

Isn't it better to be intolerant of all kinds of violence/aggression to set a precedent so that it doesn't happen again?

With how many insults should a football match be stopped and suspended?

When Vinicius told the referee a few weeks ago "to get in the ass, son of a bitch" we also suspended the game for insults?.

How do you rule the law to make this fair and you can play football?

You close an entire stand for the next game where the majority of their fans in that stand did not make racist insults at Vinicius. It's fair?.

Valverde attacked Baena and Yabusele did a judo hold on Exum that injured him. And the next game after these events, the Real Madrid football and basketball field applauded these players for the attacks.

Should the Santiago Bernabéu and the Real Madrid stadium be closed for applauding the attacks? Why were those games allowed to be played when people applauded the violence?
 

top1whoisman

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So in what cases can an aggression be justified and not receive sanction in the world of football?

Isn't it better to be intolerant of all kinds of violence/aggression to set a precedent so that it doesn't happen again?

With how many insults should a football match be stopped and suspended?

When Vinicius told the referee a few weeks ago "to get in the ass, son of a bitch" we also suspended the game for insults?.

How do you rule the law to make this fair and you can play football?

You close an entire stand for the next game where the majority of their fans in that stand did not make racist insults at Vinicius. It's fair?.

Valverde attacked Baena and Yabusele did a judo hold on Exum that injured him. And the next game after these events, the Real Madrid football and basketball field applauded these players for the attacks.

Should the Santiago Bernabéu and the Real Madrid stadium be closed for applauding the attacks? Why were those games allowed to be played when people applauded the violence?
Nice bit of whataboutism there, well done.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Niemans, the issue here is about being tone deaf.

You can have all kinds of opinions about whether Vinicius Jr. 'provokes' things, whether the red card should have been rescinded or not, whether it's fair to call Spain 'a racist country', whether people are being unfair with Mestalla or not, etc.

But this is not the time to talk about it. People who focus on other things give off the impression that they are not particularly concerned about the racist insults.
 

Niemans

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I'd hardly say he 'assaulted' his opponent, which is what Xavi is claiming. Both the goalkeeper (charging out of nowhere and barging into Vini, then grabbing his jersey right near the throat) and especially Duro (grabbing Vini in a choke hold around his neck) were far far far more guilty of 'assault' than he was. What Vinicius did was a direct reaction to the latter, and to be honest it was more of a push to get him away than it was a hit.

Technically it doesn't surprise me that he gets a red card for it (any kinds of reaction these days tend to get the same punishment as the guy who starts it), but the fact that he was the only one who got a red is unbelievably disgraceful refereeing even if you take the racism out of the equation. When considering the racist abuse and the fact that he was the least guilty of the three players of 'assault', why is it a surprise that it gets overturned?

Xavi has also said that games should be stopped for racist abuse so it's certainly not as bad as what people might think by the tweet, but considering everything that went on it is in very bad taste to say that he should still be getting suspended.
The fair thing should be to review the entire play and punish Hugo Duro and the Valencia goalkeeper in an exemplary manner, just like Vinicius.

I don't know what "assaulted" means in English. It happened to me too when trying to say aggression.

Now I am going to give my opinion. this was something that was seen coming from last year. It was very obvious.

When a league and a federation leave unpunished day after day players who throw themselves into the area to deceive the referee, players who simulate attacks, players who make attacks or players who make gestures to the stands, this ends up happening. And I give as an example a player from my team, the most loved by fans and the best. Iago Aspas. He should be sanctioned every game because he is the biggest pig in Spanish football and a bad example for this sport.

Neither are the coaches who swear by the referees on each league day, nor the club televisions (this year's Real Madrid TV is a historical sanction) that insult the referees in each game.

When all these things are allowed, then in the end it ends in a spiral of violence and hatred.
 

Niemans

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Niemans, the issue here is about being tone deaf.

You can have all kinds of opinions about whether Vinicius Jr. 'provokes' things, whether the red card should have been rescinded or not, whether it's fair to call Spain 'a racist country', whether people are being unfair with Mestalla or not, etc.

But this is not the time to talk about it. People who focus on other things give off the impression that they are not particularly concerned about the racist insults.
The fair thing should be to review the entire play and punish Hugo Duro and the Valencia goalkeeper in an exemplary manner, just like Vinicius.

I don't know what "assaulted" means in English. It happened to me too when trying to say aggression.

Now I am going to give my opinion. this was something that was seen coming from last year. It was very obvious.

When a league and a federation leave unpunished day after day players who throw themselves into the area to deceive the referee, players who simulate attacks, players who make attacks or players who make gestures to the stands, this ends up happening. And I give as an example a player from my team, the most loved by fans and the best. Iago Aspas. He should be sanctioned every game because he is the biggest pig in Spanish football and a bad example for this sport.

Neither are the coaches who swear by the referees on each league day, nor the club televisions (this year's Real Madrid TV is a historical sanction) that insult the referees in each game.

When all these things are allowed, then in the end it ends in a spiral of violence and hatred.
Here's my opinion.
 

Theonas

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Just for the sake of clarity, these are the full Xavi quotes.
I really think that was bad from Xavi. He talks about the issue like it's about verbal abuse which is disingenius. Verbal abuse IS an issue in football but that should not be the focus to what happens to Vini. Xavi makes it sound like it's all the same but it isn't. I am not sure if he is glossing over what happened or if it's just clumsy. Him being called son of such and such should not be tolerated but it shouldn't be equated to what happened to Vini.
 

top1whoisman

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The fair thing should be to review the entire play and punish Hugo Duro and the Valencia goalkeeper in an exemplary manner, just like Vinicius.

I don't know what "assaulted" means in English. It happened to me too when trying to say aggression.

Now I am going to give my opinion. this was something that was seen coming from last year. It was very obvious.

When a league and a federation leave unpunished day after day players who throw themselves into the area to deceive the referee, players who simulate attacks, players who make attacks or players who make gestures to the stands, this ends up happening. And I give as an example a player from my team, the most loved by fans and the best. Iago Aspas. He should be sanctioned every game because he is the biggest pig in Spanish football and a bad example for this sport.

Neither are the coaches who swear by the referees on each league day, nor the club televisions (this year's Real Madrid TV is a historical sanction) that insult the referees in each game.

When all these things are allowed, then in the end it ends in a spiral of violence and hatred.
In your two posts about the subject you have still failed to say anything about the racist abuse Vini was subjected to. No matter what him or Aspas do, nothing gives anyone the right to racially abuse a player. Aspas is of course safe from this as he's not black. The impression I get from your post is basically trying to find justification for the racist behavior from the stands.

Ever thought that the constant racism is one of the reasons Vini does make gestures to the stands etc.?
 

Iker Quesadillas

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It really must be said that "Racism Equals Bad" is a near-universal opinion in the West.

Saying "I think the racist chants are bad" or "I don't approve of racism" or whatever, doesn't mean much. It just means "I know what I'm supposed to say because I live in society." I'm sure many of the people yelling "monkey" would characterize themselves as "not racist."

To the wider world, it comes across like Spain doesn't care about racism. Not because they haven't denounced racism. They have. But my parrot can denounce racism too. It's rote repetition with no understanding behind it.
 

Niemans

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In your two posts about the subject you have still failed to say anything about the racist abuse Vini was subjected to. No matter what him or Aspas do, nothing gives anyone the right to racially abuse a player. Aspas is of course safe from this as he's not black. The impression I get from your post is basically trying to find justification for the racist behavior from the stands.

Ever thought that the constant racism is one of the reasons Vini does make gestures to the stands etc.?
My post is for people with a minimum of understanding.
 

Swoobs

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Just for the sake of clarity, these are the full Xavi quotes.
Well based on the quoted, actually he did not say anything wrong or outlandish. The focus is still on the racism. The bit on the red card was unnecessary though