I think his point is that it's ridiculous to make that sort of claim especially in the arrogant manner you've done so far. Alderweireld was the best CB in the league in 2016/17, while Vertonghen was the best CB in the league in 2017/18 so it really does seem delusional to say VVD is playing on a higher level than either of those two did.
What? How does me mentioning you didn't even win the CL turn this in to Spurs vs Liverpool? The topic was that VVD is supposedly better because he's accomplished something .. despite the fact he didn't actually win it. That was directly relevant, it's you who then started mouthing off about how we don't compete for trophies blah blah blah.
Yeah it's hilariously terrible logic, even funnier when you consider Liverpool's side is basically made up of players signed from clubs where they never won anything at all, the likes of Mane, Salah (except his 'trophy' at Chelsea), VVD, Robertson, Keita, Alisson, Firmino .. pretty much their entire side, all have never won a major trophy in their club careers. Almost like good players can also play for teams who aren't winning trophies. We may not have won anything, but we have a number of very good players who could play for top European clubs, it's just the likes of City have more of those players.
Nobody is really talking about the fee already, if you have a clear deficiency in your team and a player is available who can solve that, you pay the money if you are able to do so. That's what they have done with Keita/Alisson/VVD, and it's really impressive, I'll admit to being envious of how well they have backed Klopp. Going for the cheaper, less proven option carries with it a far greater chance of failure, and the likelihood is you'll have to dip in to the market again anyway, with Van Djik they've got a mainstay in their defence for years to come.
It's ridiculous/arrogant to suggest VVD is better? Not really, it's just my opinion.
Because us losing the final has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I simply mentioned the fact that Spurs would be incredibly happy to make a CL final after you dismissed it.
That’s a valid opinion. I wanted Alderweireld when he was at Ajax. At Spurs, he plays in a solid unit with quality keeper and quality defensive players around him. Comparing players by comparing their teams, like some have done, isn’t going to give and accurate view of the individual players.
It's about consistency. Even Smalling has gobbled up Kane before. The question is whether VVD can have a top season.
& you conceded 4 goals in 2 games when you were defeated twice by Monaco in the CL in the very same season you only let in 26 goals in the PL. At least I can point to the fact that we, as a team, switched off against Roma. You were trying to qualify for the knockout stages with your best centre-backs in attendance, so the point I'm making, & the one you seem to be ignoring, is that comparing league performances to those in cup competitions is like comparing apples to oranges.
It has been the case his whole career. When he was at Groningen no top sides were interested him not even the top sides in Holland. Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord all were not interested. So he ended up at Celtic(beating out Brighton). And obviously after leaving Celtic Southampton were the best side interested in him.
It's a crazy story yeah. At 19 years old, he wasn't allowed to join Willem II's first team which is why he crossed the whole country to Groningen in the first place. Rejected Brighton & Krasnodar in 2013 and offered himself to Overmars (Ajax) via his agent, but he wasn't interested and signed Van der Hoorn instead who's now at Swansea.
It's bizarre really. What weren't they seeing in him?
My theory is that his best quality(his aerial ability) would not heavily appreciated in a league like the Eredivisie. And when he was at Celtic the obvious answer was the top clubs in England would be hesitant buying a player straight from Scotland.
True, I was just trying to highlight he hadn't even had a real test anyway.
Didn't look very solid in defence?
Forget 2yrs ago, poor bloke must be wondering why a top club hasn't shown interest even now
I just find it odd that in the netherlands, a young player with such obvious natural attributes, and strong ballplaying ability to boot, didn't have his potential recognised. You'd think a talent scout somewhere would have said "he's got flaws, but we can work with this."
The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Jose Fonte look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.
It's odd indeed. I don't know what Groningen were asking for him though. Maybe he would have been too expensive for Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord?
That IS NOT a fact, that is an opinion. I don’t agree with it either. I think VVD (I’m assuming you aren’t actually talking about Van Der Vaart) is better in pretty much every single way, and I thought that before we signed him. That’s my opinion.
Something is very wrong institutionally in the Netherlands. Just look how average their NT is these days, easily the worst side they've ever had.
Would be pretty hard for him to have done considering Alderweireld and Lovren never played together at Southampton at the same time.
On that basis, Lovren is playing at a higher level then Alder and Vertonghen...
Alderweireld never once played with Lovren to have made him look good. I'm not doubting he would have, but they never played together. Damn you @Liver_bird
Agree with most of us. VVD makes a massive difference to us, mainly in terms of the composure he exudes to those around him, in a previously panicky back 4. But let's not get ahead of ourselves until we've kept clean sheets consistently against the top 6.
I assure, if we were to make a direct statistical comparison of the two over the past 2 seasons in the league. Your favoured man would not come out on top.
to be fair. the player I wanted to mention was Fonte not Lovren my wordAlderweireld if anything, is poor on the air. I'd consider Van Dijk better in one on one too.
I don't think Brighton could afford his £30K pw wages at Celtic, hampered by FFP as a Championship club. Poyet did his nut, complaining about a glass season on transfers.
You're missing the point entirely, again. Both you and @ShadesOfTomato seem to be under the impression that I'm claiming Toby/Vert are the best defenders ever, and that we have a fantastic CL record. We don't, our defenders have made mistakes, had poor games etc .. hence why I haven't claimed they're on 'another level' to VVD, which is what the original claim is.
Of course we would .. and no I didn't dismiss it, it's a great achievement. It's just you were being incredibly arrogant about it and I felt the need to remind you that it ended in defeat.Because us losing the final has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I simply mentioned the fact that Spurs would be incredibly happy to make a CL final after you dismissed it.
So reaching the final of the CL isn't an achievement? Despite the fact that no English team has been there since 2012? Yep, means nothing
Indeed, you have effectively no presence in the competition. Have you ever been past the quarter finals? Again, that's not me being a WUM but simply stating fact.
I'm aware that suggesting VVD is better because he made the CL final is flawed logic. But I'm using it as an example of the impact he's had upon the team. It's been seismic and immediate.
We haven't conceded a goal at Anfield since February and our goals against column since his arrival is now in alignment with that of a title winning side.
The 'another level' comment was simply in referral to the fact that he's come in and performed at the highest level in the CL. Something Alderweireld and Vertonghen have consistently failed to do. It's just one barometer of comparison.
As for the league, he's played half a season at Liverpool. What do you expect?
I think VVD is easily in the top 5 in the CB in the EPL, not the world. I'm interested why you've placed Vertonghen in such esteemed company there, considering what the rest have won and done consistently he's not in the same bracket. In his first 3 seasons at spurs they had the 8th, 9th and 16th best defensive record, it was only after Toby joined that they improved dramatically in my opinion. Even last season they only conceded 2 less goals then us and we're supposedly dodgy at the back.
