So a big bounce, immediately after dipping below €100. Looks as though the Jipster might have been onto something....
Volkswagen Admits to Cheating US Emissions Tests
- Thread starter Sir Matt
- Start date
I didn't, was hoping the Congress hearing yesterday would bash it. To think it got as low as €95 as well. Credit Suisse put a note out yesterday saying best case it reckons is the whole thing will cost VW €23 billion, worst case €78 billion, which would be staggering tbf. Bear in mind VW has only set aside €6.5 billion. Am hoping it can have another leg down, but as soon as there is certainty on how much it will have to pay, you'd expect it to fly up again.
Still an outside chance of a rights issue.
I was all talk and no action though. Been stung a couple of times lately and was over-cautious. Our sub-editor bought into Glencore at 70p and its bounced back to 130p in about a week.
Claiming the deception was just by two engineers and no one else in the company knew about it is completely unbelievable. I wouldn't have much faith in any company management that came up with that one.
That's what I thought actually.
Eh, you mean it's unlikely that just two engineers could have devised, built and installed defeat devices on 11 million cars worldwide. Sounds legit to me, if they hired Superman and his twin brother.
Yeah, it's the installed part that seems ever so slightly unlikely.
It simply must have come with blessing from the top.
I suppose it's plausible that the engineers didn't know what they were installing, given they don't want loads of people knowing what they are doing the different R&D heads and top level software and engineers must have colluded to do it. Whether it actually went to the CEO level, who knows? Will be interesting to see if they found anything in the raids on the office. Having said that, if they are clever enough to build this tech, you'd think they'd also be smart enough to cover their tracks.
Yeah, this is what I wonder too sometimes. I reckon it's not that black and white though, some companies will get away with it while others don't like WorldCom, Enron and dozens of others probably.
They'll be an insider leak and another crash soon enough.
Clearly there is something wrong with the testing procedure given these new revelations.
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...da-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...da-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu
Don't think anyone would be too surprised if the whole industry gets dragged into this.
The issue seems to be more with the testing procedures and drive cycles that test these emissions which do not correlate well to real life, manufacturers have invested a lot to drive down Carbon Dioxide emissions to meet EU regulations and I imagine there will now be greater focus on Nitrogen Oxides now. Obviously the critical difference with VW is the wilful deception element and I am having a very hard time believing that a silo-group of software engineers did to influence 11m cars with no higher-ups knowing of it.
Aren't they recalling something like 11million cars? €23m bill seems very low to me.
I think it's going to be billion, not million.
Ah, that makes more sense, still getting off lightly though if that figure is accurate.
I'd be shocked if nobody else was doing it.
Shareprice currently at 131,50
I don't really get this: there are plenty of analysts setting crazy target prices on the stock now.
Here's a snippet from an article (http://www.dakotafinancialnews.com/...-200-00-by-sanford-c-bernstein-vow3-2/503317/)
Volkswagen AG (ETR:VOW3) received a €200.00 ($227.27) target price from equities research analysts at Sanford C. Bernstein in a report issued on Monday,MarketBeat.com reports. The brokerage presently has a a “buy” rating on the stock.
Other analysts have also issued reports about the stock. Deutsche Bank set a €260.00 ($295.45) price target on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a report on Monday, September 21st. Baader Bank set a €260.00 ($295.45) price objective on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a research note on Thursday, September 17th. Commerzbank AG set a €278.00 ($315.91) target price on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “buy” rating in a research report on Thursday, September 17th. JPMorgan Chase & Co. set a €253.00 ($287.50) price objective on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “buy” rating in a report on Wednesday, September 16th. Finally, Kepler Capital Markets set a €255.00 ($289.77) price target on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a report on Tuesday, September 15th. Four investment analysts have rated the stock with a sell rating, twelve have given a hold rating and four have given a buy rating to the company. The company currently has a consensus rating of “Hold” and an average target price of €131.80 ($149.77).
When do they think these prices will be arrived at given that all are higher than the 5 year high it hit in April of this year. A case of vested interests or a 5 year price target?!
Here's a snippet from an article (http://www.dakotafinancialnews.com/...-200-00-by-sanford-c-bernstein-vow3-2/503317/)
Volkswagen AG (ETR:VOW3) received a €200.00 ($227.27) target price from equities research analysts at Sanford C. Bernstein in a report issued on Monday,MarketBeat.com reports. The brokerage presently has a a “buy” rating on the stock.
Other analysts have also issued reports about the stock. Deutsche Bank set a €260.00 ($295.45) price target on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a report on Monday, September 21st. Baader Bank set a €260.00 ($295.45) price objective on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a research note on Thursday, September 17th. Commerzbank AG set a €278.00 ($315.91) target price on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “buy” rating in a research report on Thursday, September 17th. JPMorgan Chase & Co. set a €253.00 ($287.50) price objective on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “buy” rating in a report on Wednesday, September 16th. Finally, Kepler Capital Markets set a €255.00 ($289.77) price target on shares of Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “buy” rating in a report on Tuesday, September 15th. Four investment analysts have rated the stock with a sell rating, twelve have given a hold rating and four have given a buy rating to the company. The company currently has a consensus rating of “Hold” and an average target price of €131.80 ($149.77).
When do they think these prices will be arrived at given that all are higher than the 5 year high it hit in April of this year. A case of vested interests or a 5 year price target?!
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My father in law just registered his Tiguan from 2012 with the Suisse Federal authorities who are working with VW to determine what the next steps will be. Apparently to retrofit the cars to acceptable standards would be expensive and not without potential future issues as well. I've read that in some countries it's even being discussed to reimburse the purchase price of the automobile, presumably if you waive your involvement in any lawsuits.
23 bn is getting off lightly? Put into context against the 900m fine Chrysler got for being directly repsonsible for 174 deaths, it seems on the harsh side.
I was meaning to come here and say that €23bn could potentially navigate them towards the verge of bankrupcy, but I've just realized they make a profit of €21bn a year. WTF.
Yes! It's not a small concern 
134,55
Blimey, same source as earlier seems to have updated the article and slashed all the price targets, almost by half.
http://www.dakotafinancialnews.com/volkswagen-ag-pt-set-at-100-00-by-baader-bank-vow3/503555/
Volkswagen AG (ETR:VOW3) has been given a €100.00 ($113.64) price target by equities researchanalysts at Baader Bank in a research report issued on Monday, Analyst Ratings Net reports. The brokerage presently has a a “neutral” rating on the stock.
Other research analysts have also issued reports about the company. JPMorgan Chase & Co. set a €179.00 ($203.41) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “neutral” rating in a research note on Wednesday, September 23rd. Kepler Capital Markets set a €136.00 ($154.55) price objective on Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “neutral” rating in a research report on Monday, October 5th. Equinet Institutional Services set a €180.00 ($204.55) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “neutral” rating in a report on Monday, September 14th. Goldman Sachs set a €100.00 ($113.64) price objective on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “sell” rating in a report on Tuesday, September 29th. Finally, Societe Generale set a €110.00 ($125.00) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “neutral” rating in a research note on Thursday. Four research analysts have rated the stock with a sell rating, twelve have assigned a hold rating and four have assigned a buy rating to the stock. The stock has an average rating of “Hold” and a consensus price target of €131.80 ($149.77).
http://www.dakotafinancialnews.com/volkswagen-ag-pt-set-at-100-00-by-baader-bank-vow3/503555/
Volkswagen AG (ETR:VOW3) has been given a €100.00 ($113.64) price target by equities researchanalysts at Baader Bank in a research report issued on Monday, Analyst Ratings Net reports. The brokerage presently has a a “neutral” rating on the stock.
Other research analysts have also issued reports about the company. JPMorgan Chase & Co. set a €179.00 ($203.41) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “neutral” rating in a research note on Wednesday, September 23rd. Kepler Capital Markets set a €136.00 ($154.55) price objective on Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “neutral” rating in a research report on Monday, October 5th. Equinet Institutional Services set a €180.00 ($204.55) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the stock a “neutral” rating in a report on Monday, September 14th. Goldman Sachs set a €100.00 ($113.64) price objective on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “sell” rating in a report on Tuesday, September 29th. Finally, Societe Generale set a €110.00 ($125.00) target price on Volkswagen AG and gave the company a “neutral” rating in a research note on Thursday. Four research analysts have rated the stock with a sell rating, twelve have assigned a hold rating and four have assigned a buy rating to the stock. The stock has an average rating of “Hold” and a consensus price target of €131.80 ($149.77).
Ah....the key is in the dates.
What a strange couple of articles.
What a strange couple of articles.
I'd say just under 2k per car is cheap yeah.
If I owned one I'd be handing the keys back and looking for a full refund.
A basic term of sale is that goods must be of merchantable quality, if a new car is failing emissions tests I'd seriously question whether it is of merchantable quality. It also means the sale was completed based on deliberate misinformation.
I'm amazed they don't have a queue looking for a full refund.
Sell sell sell
EPA discovers defeat device in more VW TDI engines
The EPA claims that cars equipped with the 3.0 TDI engine know when they are being tested for emissions, and their on-board computers switch into a mode designed to pass the stringent requirements in the United States for diesel exhaust. Vehicles sold in the United States with this engine include the 2014 VW Touareg, 2015 Porsche Cayenne, and 2015 Audi A6, A7, A8L and Q5. The EPA says there are 10,000 vehicles currently on the road with this second defeat device, along with an unknown number of 2016 models either on dealer lots or in the driveways of consumers.
EPA discovers defeat device in more VW TDI engines
The EPA claims that cars equipped with the 3.0 TDI engine know when they are being tested for emissions, and their on-board computers switch into a mode designed to pass the stringent requirements in the United States for diesel exhaust. Vehicles sold in the United States with this engine include the 2014 VW Touareg, 2015 Porsche Cayenne, and 2015 Audi A6, A7, A8L and Q5. The EPA says there are 10,000 vehicles currently on the road with this second defeat device, along with an unknown number of 2016 models either on dealer lots or in the driveways of consumers.
Auf widersehen!
really sell now...
Shares in VW have dropped after it reported "irregularities" in carbon dioxide emissions levels, which could affect about 800,000 cars in Europe.
An internal investigation by the firm into diesel emissions revealed that CO2 emissions and fuel consumption were understated during standards tests.
VW said it concerned mainly diesel but also some petrol models and could affect VW, Skoda, Audi and Seat cars.
It comes weeks after VW was accused of cheating nitrogen oxide level tests.
Cars with 1.4, 1.6 and 2.0 litre motors are thought to be releasing more of the greenhouse gas, CO2, than previous tests had shown.
Shares in VW have dropped after it reported "irregularities" in carbon dioxide emissions levels, which could affect about 800,000 cars in Europe.
An internal investigation by the firm into diesel emissions revealed that CO2 emissions and fuel consumption were understated during standards tests.
VW said it concerned mainly diesel but also some petrol models and could affect VW, Skoda, Audi and Seat cars.
It comes weeks after VW was accused of cheating nitrogen oxide level tests.
Cars with 1.4, 1.6 and 2.0 litre motors are thought to be releasing more of the greenhouse gas, CO2, than previous tests had shown.
Any affected owners have any thoughts on what they're going to do? Got a letter from VW Ireland a couple of weeks ago saying my Audi has one of the devices in it and they would be keeping me updated on next steps.
Did anyone buy stock after they tumbled last month ? I don't see much of an upside for them going forward.
Is it April 1st?
Volkswagen of America informed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Wednesday morning that it will voluntarily recall 91,800 vehicles in the U.S. over engine camshaft failures that can cause a loss of braking power and result in a crash.
The affected vehicles span the 2014 and 2015 model for cars powered by the new 1.8-liter and 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder gasoline engines, including Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Golf, Golf SportWagen, Jetta and Passat.
Volkswagen of America informed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Wednesday morning that it will voluntarily recall 91,800 vehicles in the U.S. over engine camshaft failures that can cause a loss of braking power and result in a crash.
The affected vehicles span the 2014 and 2015 model for cars powered by the new 1.8-liter and 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder gasoline engines, including Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Golf, Golf SportWagen, Jetta and Passat.
Gutted. I sold at 119 a couple of weeks ago when the bad news kept coming. Share price now 140.
You still made a few bob though didn't you?
Not enough bob by far.
I completely missed the boat by being greedy and misreading the impact the US Senate hearing would have (ie it had zilch).
I'm really surprised it has gone to 140. I thought the news was getting worse and worse.
Not surprised at all. Volkswagen won't fall, they employ 500.000+ people and are a German juggernaut. With that being said, I don't even think the majority of people give a feck anyway.
I'd be surprised if they fall totally but 12,000,000 cars need to be fixed. Plus the pending tax evasion issue.Not surprised at all. Volkswagen won't fall, they employ 500.000+ people and are a German juggernaut. With that being said, I don't even think the majority of people give a feck anyway.
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Legally where would you stand if you were a salesman for one of the competitors to VW and paid a sales commission, if you sued VW for loss of earnings due to the inflated figures? If you drove a VW around for years are you entitled to some money back for the extra fuel costs? If you work in parts distribution for Ford and they sold less cars because VW conned the public so you don't have as many customers is there legal redress?
In short is VW going to become the next PPI auto call cash cow for lawyers to milk?
In short is VW going to become the next PPI auto call cash cow for lawyers to milk?