It's hard to come up with a logical counter argument for this. Barring an injury when losing its pointless bringing on a striker in the 93rd minute. I guess he got a close up view of those crosses that went way over his head from inside the Sevilla box instead of from the sidelines. Something to tell people when he retires.
Waiting to the 87th Minute Before Subs
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
de Jong who hasn’t scored in 11 games before this is not better than Ighalo. Mata and Vazquez are similar.
Lack of quality?
This is a lack of quality: having a reject City winger in their back four, a City reject in their midfield, another midfielder who's off to Saudi, and a Liverpool reject who scored.
Unbelievable the lengths people are going to defend Ole on this one.
He simply doesn't have the nous to recognise when a game is getting away from us, and is just not proactive enough for a manager of a world class football club. He was completely outdone by Lopetegui today.
Any sub today, made early enough, would've changed the outcome. Rashford was out on his feet and did nothing of note apart from a 5 minute spell at the beginning, Williams was struggling, Mason locked out of the game.
We cannot blame lack of quality on the bench looking at that Sevilla side. Ole's game management is just piss poor. He tries too often to be the nice guy, to keep everyone happy. Not ruthless enough.
This is a lack of quality: having a reject City winger in their back four, a City reject in their midfield, another midfielder who's off to Saudi, and a Liverpool reject who scored.
Unbelievable the lengths people are going to defend Ole on this one.
He simply doesn't have the nous to recognise when a game is getting away from us, and is just not proactive enough for a manager of a world class football club. He was completely outdone by Lopetegui today.
Any sub today, made early enough, would've changed the outcome. Rashford was out on his feet and did nothing of note apart from a 5 minute spell at the beginning, Williams was struggling, Mason locked out of the game.
We cannot blame lack of quality on the bench looking at that Sevilla side. Ole's game management is just piss poor. He tries too often to be the nice guy, to keep everyone happy. Not ruthless enough.
Ole is very passive in using his subs, but to be fair it's probably a conscious decision that he just doesn't have many to use. I'd have chucked Ighalo on as soon as they scored, but other than that, who are we relying on? A lad who couldn't get a game for dogshit relegation fodder last year and the white Aaron Lennon.
Unfortunately, we're about as passive in the transfer market as well.
Unfortunately, we're about as passive in the transfer market as well.
Yes we should make subs far earlier. But who are you bringing on to make a difference. The bench is shocking.
In saying that I would have pulled rashford far earlier.
In saying that I would have pulled rashford far earlier.
I guess he rates his starting 11 far more than he does his subs.
You mean the 5 minutes they had something to do? Come off it, you need to feel your way into a game... Just coming on and expecting something straight away is silly.
Also our knackered players clearly weren't better because they did the square root of feck all after 60 minutes.
Inexplicable for me. But as someone else said no one should be rushing to bring those players on.
We need quality in depth, points to even more of a justification for Grealish and others.
We need quality in depth, points to even more of a justification for Grealish and others.
Exactly this.
How anyone can blame Ole for relying on our main 5 up front I do not know.
Would you bring James and Mata on any earlier?!
I can only think Ole is trying to pull a Jose by saying these player are too crap for me to bring on, trying to make a point about getting new transfers. I’ve done some right moaning, but I can’t believe that any manager would genuinely leave subs so late so often.
People are really making an excuse of our "shite" bench? 
I don't think Sevilla have a bench full of superstars either but it didn't stop them making subs way earlier. I honestly have no idea what Ole expects the subs to do in 5-6 mins or so, it's utterly pointless waiting until 87th min to make a sub...
I don't think Sevilla have a bench full of superstars either but it didn't stop them making subs way earlier. I honestly have no idea what Ole expects the subs to do in 5-6 mins or so, it's utterly pointless waiting until 87th min to make a sub...Mata literally changed the Copenhagen game when he came on as a sub.
Need to be more proactive with the subs, the bench players aren't fantastic but on any given night you only need one to offer something different and make the opponents have to adjust even if only for a couple minutes. A player as ass as Lingard was able to put Leicester to the sword with workrate.
Even that was overdue. I was amazed he wasn't making changes from 70-75min.
With some the shit spouted across the forum today, you'd think we were playing prime Barcelona today.
I’d genuinely like someone to put out a semi-detailed argument as to who should have been subbed off, when, for whom, and why you think that would have made the difference? No one seems to be able to elaborate any further than just screaming for subs.
It's a stupid excuse.People are really making an excuse of our "shite" bench?
People are acting as if our starting XI were still doing anything good after 60 minutes..
If Lingard had come on and simply run around he'd have already been playing better then Rashford.
Rashford. He was absolutely awful today. Ighalo - he's scored a decent number of goals.
Just before they scored I said were getting tired, why bring on Daniel James when he’s a speed merchant and Sevilla dropped back and defend after there goal at least ighalo holds up the ball and can bring others into play but he comes on in the 93rd minute.
It's fecking ridiculous and it kept happening game after game. Run our best players into the ground and have them labour to the end when their legs have gone. It's not like Sevilla were brilliant, some fresh legs would've helped. Hell Mata made a difference against Copenhagen when he came on despite being pretty average these days, just because he was fresher.
Not sure how we will cope if he doesn’t trust any player on the bench. I get it, none of them are great options. But let’s be honest, we are probably signing 1/2 players this window.
With the congested fixture list next season, we won’t last till December if we keep playing our starting 11 every game.
With the congested fixture list next season, we won’t last till December if we keep playing our starting 11 every game.
Totally agree, at worst his size and physical presence would have opened the door for someone else.
If I were him I'd be asking to cut short my loan tomorrow. He's not been used nowhere near enough.
How? So we have good depth?
Lingard on for Rashford to help Williams down the left and bring some energy to the side.
Matic for Fred for his more incisive passing.
Igahlo on for Mason who was so tired he at one point forgot how to kick a ball... Would also maybe score a goal. Or even Mata in for Mason so he could link up effectively with Martial / Bruno like he did in our last game.
TFM on for Williams or AWB who were knackered and making rash decisions,and not contributing going forward. TFM might also not have contributed but it wouldn't have made us worse.
Any of these could have happened at 60/70 minutes
We have some decent players on subs bench who can definitely do something good for a team, for example Mata changed the game against Copenhagen. But if you give subs 5 mins, it's pointless.
Was hoping for subs when the team ran out of steam at the early part of the second half.
Do we have players who could come on and run around? Yep. There's one thing we would have been doing better for a start.
Did we do anything in this game after 60 minutes!? Anything at all? No... So if we had brought on players with energy maybe that could have led to something.
You would think other teams have superstars on the bench the way they slag off ours.
No it isn't great, but fresh legs are needed sometimes.
Ole just takes too long to react. Be it subs or tactical changes.
No it isn't great, but fresh legs are needed sometimes.
Ole just takes too long to react. Be it subs or tactical changes.
Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if its solskjaers way of highlighting the depth we lack.
Imagine turning to that bench in a CL knockout round against a top team. Mother of God the drop from starting to bench is awful. Assuming Greenwood joins occasional bench if we got sancho, we are still shy 2 very good attacking subs
Imagine turning to that bench in a CL knockout round against a top team. Mother of God the drop from starting to bench is awful. Assuming Greenwood joins occasional bench if we got sancho, we are still shy 2 very good attacking subs
Who are these decent players! Mata changing one game in a whole bloody season, the guy is done. Ighalo is the only one I would like to come on. But who else is decent in an attacking position? James who people call a championship player here, or Lingard who's been getting abuse for god knows how long.
Now compare Munir & James I dare you!
It isnt. The bench is dung. He knows it and he doesnt trust them.
Still, ighalo should have been on as soon as the goal went in.
They need 3 or 4 more players in honesty
Who runs around? James and Lingard?
Nah didn’t bite at that oneNow compare Munir & James I dare you!
Bench is shite, but you have to use it. Rashford should have been off earlier and at least give some players some time to find their rhythm. Fergie use to get a lot more from his mediocre players than Ole is.
It is a strange situation. On the one hand you feel anger because you want to see players out of form taken off. On the other hand the players coming off from the bench lack any genuine quality.
It was criminal. It also wasn’t a one off. It happens nearly every game..
Ighalo or Mata should have come in earlier for Rashford who was terrible. Even TFM for Williams wasn't such a bad idea. Ole waited way way to long to make subs. Really disappointing in game management.
It would be different if Rashford was on his game, but he was clearly off it from the first minute. As a manager, you have to replace him.
There are options, I refuse to believe that a fresh Mata, Lingard or even James would have been as bad as Rashford from the 65th minute on. He was a shadow of a professional footballer.
Similarly Fosu-Mensah for Williams, who as all at sea all game, and on a yellow.
There are options, I refuse to believe that a fresh Mata, Lingard or even James would have been as bad as Rashford from the 65th minute on. He was a shadow of a professional footballer.
Similarly Fosu-Mensah for Williams, who as all at sea all game, and on a yellow.
i think subbing Rashford for Ighalo and moving Martial to the left at around 70 wouldn’t have been unreasonable. Arguably Fred for Mctominay as he was flagging. 3rd sub and beyond I agree it’s a struggle, Williams for Pereira and hope for the best?