Was the Casemiro signing a mistake?

[Rood]

I wouldn't call it a mistake as he was a vital player last season but clearly it's a lot of money for a player towards the end of their career

I also don't believe that his legs have suddenly gone as many suggest, I think it was more an issue of a change of midfield system asking too much of him this season

 

[TheLord]

If an ageing player, who has won just about everything in the sport, and multiple times at that, wants to go to a foreign land, to a team that has no chance of winning major silverware in the foreseeable future, it says a lot about the background psychology of the player. Perhaps also about the selling club. I'd stay clear of all such transfers - Casemiro, Ronaldo, and the likes.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I blame EtH for not signing a proper midfielder this summer. Casemiro is a decent signing, he clearly doesn’t see us as a retirement plan and has that drive in him still. He could be someone who helps and leads younger players. Instead we fecked up on our summer window. Now he looks like a deadweight

 

[kundalini]

Too early to tell. If he helps us win the title in year 3 or year 4 of his contract then it will have been a success. Otherwise probably not such a wise move given the fee and wages.

Personally, I'm against the signing of older stars on high wages. They expect to be a regular starter, often the team needs to be rearranged to suit them. In previous years it was very difficult to move them on while still under contract, though that may have changed with the emergence of the Saudi Pro League.

 

[Mickson]

Everyone who says "no" is a part of the problem why United are shit and always will be in this setup. This is not how you build a sustainable squad and I'm quite shocked (actually, I'm not tbf) that so many don't consider him a poor buy.

 

[Gordon S]

100%
Buying experienced players in the latter stages of their career just rarely works out that well.
Sometimes you get lucky, like Juve picking up Pirlo for free when he was about 30, but most of the time it just doesn´t age that well...
We needed improvements in midfield, desperately, but Casemiro and Eriksen were just not the answers. We need younger players, fit, strong players. Players about to reach their prime, players we can rely on game after game, not just once in a while, when they are fit, available, and has gotten into their groove after a long slow start or something.
We need to leave this stupid early retirement shit to the MLS or the Saudi league.

 

[Insanity]

The signing once again showed a lack of long-term planning at the club. These type of signings are the final pieces of the puzzle for a good team to catapult them to a greater team, not the first few pieces of the puzzle. Baffling we paid 60m for him and signed him on a huge long term contract.

Even worse was that instead of accompanying him with a top CM partner this summer, to hide some of his deficiencies, we instead signed another number 10 and tried to go with a completely new system. This left him even more exposed and vulnerable.

However, making this kind of shocking decisions is part of the post Sir Alex United DNA. We'll keep making these blunders until we get a proper structure.

 

[mu4c_20le]

It was the wrong move for him too as he clearly isn't enjoying it. Should've gone to PSG where he only needs to show up a couple times a year for the Champions League.

 

[100]

It was an objectively bad signing. Ticked every mistake we’ve been making for 10 years.

Spend months pissing about trying to sign someone else. Sign an aging player on a long term contract with high wages. Signing made after the season had already started. Delayed full involvement due to fitness/ integration.

 

[Fortitude]

Everyone who says "no" is a part of the problem why United are shit and always will be in this setup. This is not how you build a sustainable squad and I'm quite shocked (actually, I'm not tbf) that so many don't consider him a poor buy.

Well no. It can be the literal opposite of what you're saying, actually saving the club tens if not hundreds of millions in the future.

If Casemiro proved to be the bridge by which Mainoo, Mejbri and Gore became permanent first team fixtures, it would be seen as a genius move that not only saved us money, but also brought numerous youngsters through under the tutelage of a great, giving them insight and invaluable on-pitch, in-game coaching that has the potential for accelerated development.

Changing of the guard is how great clubs do things, but they have a plan in place and blueprint by which these things become seamless.

Casemiro proved his worth and quality, but we did not cater to the needs of an older player, which is folly. Then we exacerbated that this season with an even worse midfield. That's not a failure of the player, or a transition process as old as football, but the club.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

The big mistake isn’t the player. It is the length of the contract. He probably wouldn’t come if we offered a 2 year deal and that would be fine because we just sign someone else. United decides what they want and if you don’t want that that’s fine, we will look further. But in reality at United the players are always in charge. You want 4 year? No problem because we really want you for the first year.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Of course it was….I mean 70 million for a 31 year old who’s legs are on the way out On a huge wage, long contract it’s the exact thing we’ve been doing wrong for years.

We should paid the money for Rice or another younger DM that was ready to make the step up.

 

[Roboc7]

Yes it was a mistake, money should have gone on longer term solution. It was a desperate signing and it’s crazy we were prepared to pay so much in terms of a fee and wages for someone at that stage of his career.

He did have a very good spell last season but he’s also not been available a lot and has been pretty awful this season. The chance to sell him to Saudi Arabia in the summer is an opportunity to correct the mistake, if that option wasn’t there it would just compound a poor decision.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yes it was a mistake, money should have gone on longer term solution. It was a desperate signing and it’s crazy we were prepared to pay so much in terms of a fee and wages for someone at that stage of his career.

He did have a very good spell last season but he’s also not been available a lot and has been pretty awful this season. The chance to sell him to Saudi Arabia in the summer is an opportunity to correct the mistake, if that option wasn’t there it would just compound a poor decision.

souness called this correctly. We would spend even more money to replace him in a couple of years. We still have a huge gap at DM. Awful, awful signing that is exactly why we are in such a mess. Overpay and crazy wages for a play on the downhill, RM happy to get rid and laughing all the way to the bank. Only way we get something more out of him if he retires from international football, but doubt he will

 

[Hound Dog]

20/20.

I actually thought this since he was signed.

Really do not see the point of buying players at that age with such cost. Even if United got 3-4 excellent years from him (which was the absolute possible best), I would have thought the money could have been better spent on a younger player.

 

[Appletonred]

No, he's a great player and a winner who was brilliant for us most of last season, however, he might be thinking that he actually made the mistake of joining such an unstable club.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think the signing is good but the transfer fee was too high.

But you can spend a big transfer fee on a young player like Sancho or Antony and it can be an even bigger waste of money.

 

[fergieisold]

Considering he's been one of our best players this seems like a strange question.

 

[mikeyt]

He obviously played a key role in last season’s success - we probably wouldn’t have won a cup and made it to the Champions League without him - and so from that point of view it’d be silly to say it was a mistake.

But his signing points to the more general problem of us spending big on either stopgap measures or low percentage punts, instead of properly building something for the future.

I think this nails it for me. His contribution last season was huge and cannot be underestimated. He provided us bite and a presence in the middle of the park but it's showing now that he can't do it on is own and the strain is clear to see. He needs a team around him rather than him being the team.

 

[11101]

I don't care about the fee too much since nobody outside the club knows our finances and affordability.

Viewed purely from a football perspective its hard to say he's not been a successful stopgap. He was brilliant last season but at his age we should know we are not getting many years out of him and it seems like the club didn't think that far ahead.

I think he's been a success and the failure is on the club to sign somebody else to learn from him and start to take over his position in the team.

 

[samlee86]

Last season would have been the mother of all shit shows had we not signed Casemiro. We lost 4-0 away to Brentford the day before we signed him. Ten Hag would have lost his job and we would be starting again with a new manager.

We were all raving about him last season. Best DM in the world. Some of you have such short memories.

And signing young players has really worked for us. Sancho and Antony have been ripping the Premier league up (or not)

Any world class player we sign goes to crap. We ruin players. Look at the difference between Bruno in his first season and now.

Fernandinho played for City till 35 so why cant Casemiro at 31.

And how old is Mason Mount. Why isn’t he carrying the team if youth was the only criteria

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Short term signings can make sense for pushing a team over the edge in competing for major trophies, and no the league cup don't count. Adding them to teams in transition when they are invariably going to need replaced by the time the team gets to the level needed is questionable. Varane also falls into this question. Not just about age, have to be hungry, when you add guys who have won everything and have little to prove you are asking for trouble.

Varane does but ole was under the gun to win something big. The fans wanted him sacked after a second place finish. Hence Ronaldo and Varane for the reasons you outlined above.

Important part of a rebuilding is that the owners know it is a rebuilding, and communicate that. You can actually see the logic in the glazers brain that Tom Brady got them to a superbowl so..

 

[RedRonaldo]

He was one of our most important player last season, when we finished 3rd in the league and won the league cup.

 

[a_devil_inside]

Short term he solved some stuff even though we overpaid on the fee and wages, but long term he needs replacing already

 

[Amir]

He was one of our most important player last season, when we finished 3rd in the league and won the league cup.

No doubt. But it would take more than that to justify such an expenditure.

 

[UpWithRivers]

He is the wrong sort of DM. We went for De Jong then got Casemiro. But they are totally different players. Casemiro would be brilliant next to De Jong not replacing him. Now we think he can just hold the midfield with two 8's ahead of him. Makes no sense. Its the story of United. Get a player and play them out of position or a system that doesn't suit them then bash the sht out of them until they are broken wrecks of human beings. Then sell for nothing.

 

[Roboc7]

souness called this correctly. We would spend even more money to replace him in a couple of years. We still have a huge gap at DM. Awful, awful signing that is exactly why we are in such a mess. Overpay and crazy wages for a play on the downhill, RM happy to get rid and laughing all the way to the bank. Only way we get something more out of him if he retires from international football, but doubt he will

I know Madrid got the best years of his career, sold him for a profit and used it to fund a replacement. We have just got lucky that we may be able to sell him for a decent fee and get his full wages off the books, if as it has been reported he is a target for the Saudi League in the summer.

It just baffles me that this deal and the Anthony deal went ahead for the fees it literally wrecked any rebuild before it had even started.

 

[RedRonaldo]

No doubt. But it would take more than that to justify such an expenditure.

I assume extra income from CL qualification for this season would kind of cover our expense on him?

 

[Lemon Moon]

No. We can afford to bring in this type of player (quality, age, value) and he was our best player last season. Helped us get CL football back.

 

[Borys]

No, it was the best short-term signing we made in years, and fantastic stop-gap panic signings.
BUT it came with consequences, mainly what we were supposed to do is find him a midfield partner and backup this summer - his decline started last season, so we should be already planning to offload him to Saudi next summer. If we can recoup some money for him and get him off our books, it will still be a good bit of business.

If we can't offload him and he runs his contract down because of fat paycheck, we're in deep shit.
The fact we didn't find him a midfield partner (wtf was Mount signed for?) and didn't get a young backup (don't think Amrabat is staying) means we're in deep shit anyway. Next summer we will be looking for 2 midfielders AGAIN.

Our transfers strategy is a mistake, I don't think specific transfers are that bad (apart from Antony). Even Mount imo will be useful for us.

 

[sullydnl]

Last season would have been the mother of all shit shows had we not signed Casemiro. We lost 4-0 away to Brentford the day before we signed him. Ten Hag would have lost his job and we would be starting again with a new manager.

We were all raving about him last season. Best DM in the world. Some of you have such short memories.

And signing young players has really worked for us. Sancho and Antony have been ripping the Premier league up (or not)

Any world class player we sign goes to crap. We ruin players. Look at the difference between Bruno in his first season and now.

Fernandinho played for City till 35 so why cant Casemiro at 31.

And how old is Mason Mount. Why isn’t he carrying the team if youth was the only criteria

That's certainly true if we didn't sign Casemiro and also didn't sign anyone else. But there's no reason those should have been our only two options, especially given Casemiro himself wasn't our first choice.

Other top sides manage to find younger and/or cheaper DMs all the time. Was it really impossible for us to do the same?

You mention Fernandinho playing until he was 35, but the key point is that City didn't risk the success of the transfer on him doing so by buying him for a massive fee/wages the season he was going to turn 31. In fact City tellingly almost never make Casemiro-profile signings.

 

[Stacks]

Thought it was when Real let him go and signed the younger French dude. They then went and got Bellingham and left us with an ageing star who scores the odd goal, likes to get suspended and needs to much additional support. It was clear many of our players may not be ready to challenge for honours for a few years so made little sense getting a midfielder who will be on the decline, that we will need to replace shortly. We got fleeced

 

[Foolsgold21]

Good player - yes. Significant improvement last season in the midfield, especially when we have been crying out for a DM for about 8 years.

Bad signing - also yes. Big fee, big wages, Madrid cast off (when will we learn). Signing a 30 year old was always going to be a huge risk, and the amount of time left as a top player wasn't ever going to be more than 2-3 years - unfortunately it appears as if it was only 1 year...

Both these things can be true.

 

[Dorris]

It was stupid but we’ll most likely get away with it as we can recoup a lot of the fee from Saudi, at which point it becomes a good short term signing for 20mil ish….. But knowing us we’ll probably reject all offers and he’ll become worthless within a year.

 

[Amir]

I assume extra income from CL qualification for this season would kind of cover our expense on him?

May cover his fee or some of it, but what about his wages for a few years?

Getting into the CL for one year is just not a good enough reason to spend that sort of money on a short term solution that may cause problems later on. We could and should have spent that money on a longer term investment.

 

[Kazi]

Was every decision in the last 10 years a mistake?

 

[Jed I. Knight]

20/20.

Go back to around the time of the signing, and I think you’ll find many were skeptical, fearing exactly what’s played out. I know I did, and voiced it too. That said, I kinda changed my mind when he had his purple patch last season. Was immense for a period.

But the way he’s fallen off a cliff since — performance wise — has been sad to witness. And, unfortunately, not entirely unexpected.

 

[Fortitude]

Thought it was when Real let him go and signed the younger French dude. They then went and got Bellingham and left us with an ageing star who scores the odd goal, likes to get suspended and needs to much additional support. It was clear many of our players may not be ready to challenge for honours for a few years so made little sense getting a midfielder who will be on the decline, that we will need to replace shortly. We got fleeced

These days, Real Madrid and ourselves compete in different markets and don't even cross paths in the course of a summer. What's good for them has no relevance whatsoever to us. They hoovered the most elite youngsters in the world, almost to a man, with all of them falling of themselves to go there; we couldn't even get Bellingham to look our way after pulling out the big guns to try and capture his signature.

We cannot get world class players, upcoming or in their prime to come here - the only chance is when they are older and seek a new challenge, and at that, only by offering premium rates.

So you're essentially saying we should not pursue players of this calibre until we are a force again. If that's reasonable to you, then you can tag a few years more on to any projected timeline because the experience and quality these players have is something to be harnessed and utilised for the greater good of an entire squad, if you used correctly. The failing is in not having a coherent plan around these players; from the moment they are signed, you've maybe 2yrs before their replacement should be lined up and rotating minutes with them. We failed with both Varane and Casemiro to implement that.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Was every decision in the last 10 years a mistake?

Pretty much all the managerial appointments and vast majority of signings were yes. Hence the mess. Name a player who was a clear and consistent success? Shaw but has injury issues... Martinez but same....Eriksen on a free. Others?

 

[Leftback99]

No. We can afford to bring in this type of player (quality, age, value) and he was our best player last season. Helped us get CL football back.

We can't really 'afford' it, hence the FFP difficulties were now in. These type of short sighted signings have caught up with us. He wasn't our best player last season, he had a good mid season spell and was poor outside of it.

Helped us get CL but it's now very likely we've lost it again and we're stuck with his £300k+ a week contract for a heavily declining player.

He'll be hard to offload unless we're lucky that Saudi come in and he actually wants to go.