Wayne Rooney's legacy

TsuWave

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I’m not sure why you’d name drop Messi or neymar then. Not similar to Rooney in terms of skill set either. Just better footballers. Like Ronaldo.
exactly. man said skill set then named dropped Messi and Neymar and acted flustered when you mentioned Ronaldo :lol: Even funnier because Ronaldo has a more rounded skill set than both Messi or Neymar.
 

FrankDrebin

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Can you imagine the fuss Ronaldo would've made had we replaced Rooney with Valencia (solid pro,tbf), Obertan and brochure boy Owen ?
 

MattofManchester

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Hope this is the right thread to post this in but every Unites fan should enjoy this.

Wow what a player, I love the boys we have up front now but he was something else. Other than Messi and maybe Neymar, I dont think any attacker now comes close to his wide skillset.

Watching Ruud in these videos makes me sad, he was such an amazing striker. His strength, speed, control and finishing, just wow. Where are these players nowadays?
Jesus, look how clinical we were.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but it was common for us back then. When we were on it, we made goalscoring look easy.
Granted, it's a highlight reel, but you have to wonder how many of our current players would be able to finish some of these chances.
 

NewGlory

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He didnt take care of himself. Started super early at the highest level, ran himself to the ground, bad diet and off the pitch stuff, played injured respectively rushed back after injuries etc.
Very true. Don't want to generalize, but feels like it's a common theme for English players, too. Don't know if it's a character or if coaches should be instilling the sense of diet and regiment discipline early on.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Ronaldo is still playing now? He was better when they played together and Rooney looks like a darts player while Ronaldo was the top scorer at the Euro a couple of weeks ago….and still a better player than Neymar.
Rooney was always a more well rounded and complete player than Ronaldo. He was a goalscorer but also could playmake (for a forward), spread play with long diagonals, scored many headers and belters, was a better short passer, had a proper engine and hence pressed superbly, could tackle and defend when the need arose etc There were few things Rooney couldn't do and hence he's one of the most complete attackers you'll see.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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If Rooney is more selfish on the pitch and willing to offer himself to be a lone striker, he could actually score more goals and this could lead him to be in the top 3 Ballon dor nomination once or even twice. End of the day, as forward, those individual achievement look at your numbers but Rooney didn't care about individual achievement so he chose not to be the focal point of goalscorer but more as the unsung hero of the team. He cares more about team's achievement and prefers to get involved more in the games for the team to do defense, attack and playmaking simultaneously.
 

Get In Scholesy

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Quite the anomaly in the sense that as he added more facets to his game and became a better rounded player his explosiveness waned year after year. He went from being an exciting player to one who was more refined although inconsistent at times with his technical ability (his sporadic touch for instance)

Will go down as one of our best no doubt.

Personally I couldn’t get over the City bullshit, and felt like as a player he dropped off massively after that.
 

devilish

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If Rooney is more selfish on the pitch and willing to offer himself to be a lone striker, he could actually score more goals and this could lead him to be in the top 3 Ballon dor nomination once or even twice. End of the day, as forward, those individual achievement look at your numbers but Rooney didn't care about individual achievement so he chose not to be the focal point of goalscorer but more as the unsung hero of the team. He cares more about team's achievement and prefers to get involved more in the games for the team to do defense, attack and playmaking simultaneously.
you're making him look like a Saint here.

Players of such talent have the potential to do whatever they want. Thus their game is styled by their own character. Top quality finishers have a certain selfishness that makes them what they are. Rooney lacked that which means he could never be a top quality goal poacher like RVN or Shearer were. He also did a lot of running which was unnecessary for a player of his talent who could have easily allowed the ball to do the work on his behalf. That's Wayne Rooney for you and I wouldn't praise or criticise the player for that. It was his nature to play that way. It would be like asking Ronaldo to drop deep and win the ball or Keane to shut up and let others do the work. It simply won't happen.

Regarding Wayne, I don't blame Rooney for wanting out when he actually asked to leave. United had always placed balancing the books over trophies. That is good for us since we don't suffer financial meltdowns like Leeds, Milan or Barca did are doing however it can impact a player's career. What I do blame Rooney is for not taking good care of himself. These days players don't finish their career in their early 30s. That's on Rooney.
 

Bebestation

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I personally felt that the fans went a bit overboard in hatred to Rooney after the City interest.

I believe the City interest turned Rooney's head because of money, but I also felt he was contemplating it because United was a club being poorly run from the last few years of SAF tenure and afterwards - he wasnt happy with that and he could see the shit that United as a club was going through for the next decade.

Anyway - ultimately he did show his loyalty as a footballer and as a player to United and there is still some people who act like he ended up moving with the level of disappointment they show Rooney who is our top goalscorer.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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you're making him look like a Saint here.

Players of such talent have the potential to do whatever they want. Thus their game is styled by their own character. Top quality finishers have a certain selfishness that makes them what they are. Rooney lacked that which means he could never be a top quality goal poacher like RVN or Shearer were. He also did a lot of running which was unnecessary for a player of his talent who could have easily allowed the ball to do the work on his behalf. That's Wayne Rooney for you and I wouldn't praise or criticise the player for that. It was his nature to play that way. It would be like asking Ronaldo to drop deep and win the ball or Keane to shut up and let others do the work. It simply won't happen.

Regarding Wayne, I don't blame Rooney for wanting out when he actually asked to leave. United had always placed balancing the books over trophies. That is good for us since we don't suffer financial meltdowns like Leeds, Milan or Barca did are doing however it can impact a player's career. What I do blame Rooney is for not taking good care of himself. These days players don't finish their career in their early 30s. That's on Rooney.
I don’t know how do you view my post as making Rooney look like a saint? Rooney has talent to be in top 3 ballon dor list for many times, if he reaches it, he would be more appreciated. However, he chose not to because he‘s a team player who cares about team’s achievement. He enjoys the team’s achievement more than an individual achievement. There is nothing saint and wrong about being team’s player.
 

devilish

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I don’t know how do you view my post as making Rooney look like a saint? Rooney has talent to be in top 3 ballon dor list for many times, if he reaches it, he would be more appreciated. However, he chose not to because he‘s a team player who cares about team’s achievement. He enjoys the team’s achievement more than an individual achievement. There is nothing saint and wrong about being team’s player.
He didn't choose not to win a Balon d'or. Rooney's package as a player was simply not attractive enough for him to win it unless there was an anomaly (ex Owen)

He never really reached the peaks the like of Rivaldo, Messi, Ronaldinho or Ronaldo reached
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He didn't choose not to win a Balon d'or. Rooney's package as a player was simply not attractive enough for him to win it unless there was an anomaly (ex Owen)

He never really reached the peaks the like of Rivaldo, Messi, Ronaldinho or Ronaldo reached
I never say he didn’t choose not to win ballon d’or. I said to be in top 3 ballon d’or list. Ribery made it once, Neuer made it once so Rooney could easily made it the top 3 if he wants to.

You clearly said it on your post that player’s such a talent can do whatever they want. It’s Rooney‘s desire to always prefer team’s achievement over individual achievement.
 

devilish

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I never say he didn’t choose not to win ballon d’or. I said to be in top 3 ballon d’or list. Ribery made it once, Neuer made it once so Rooney could easily made it the top 3 if he wants to.

You clearly said it on your post that player’s such a talent can do whatever they want. It’s Rooney‘s desire to always prefer team’s achievement over individual achievement.
What I said is that at that level it's the character traits that shapes the player. Rooney couldn't become a Ronaldo or a Messi just as Ronaldo or Messi couldn't become a Rooney
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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What I said is that at that level it's the character traits that shapes the player. Rooney couldn't become a Ronaldo or a Messi just as Ronaldo or Messi couldn't become a Rooney
Why what you said is relevant to my post?
 

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Jesus, look how clinical we were.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but it was common for us back then. When we were on it, we made goalscoring look easy.
Granted, it's a highlight reel, but you have to wonder how many of our current players would be able to finish some of these chances.
But, but..LVG tried to re-taught Wayne Rooney's shooting!
 

Jeppers7

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Rooney was always a more well rounded and complete player than Ronaldo. He was a goalscorer but also could playmake (for a forward), spread play with long diagonals, scored many headers and belters, was a better short passer, had a proper engine and hence pressed superbly, could tackle and defend when the need arose etc There were few things Rooney couldn't do and hence he's one of the most complete attackers you'll see.
Rooney was a different player, I’d say that. He lacked that clinical edge to be a world class goal scorer year after year and he lacked that top level genius, of a Cantona for example, as a playmaker but was very good at both aspects. For sure he could play long diagonals, Valencia will testify to that. Ronaldo was better in the air and a far better goal scorer. Ronaldo’s first touch and technique were on another level to Rooneys which meant his weight of pass, short and through the lines was better than Rooneys. You surely can’t tell me Rooney was a better athlete than Ronaldo? As for pressing and defending I always felt Rooney was a better player when he stopped charging around the pitch letting his emotions take over. Once SAF got a grip on that he became more effective. He gets praised to the hilt for letting emotion take over, but he was far better once that had left his game. But the long and short of it is that he was nothing like Messi or Neymar. They are better players than he was, whether you want to argue he was more rounded or not he wasn’t as good at football as that level of player.
 

Jeppers7

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Can you imagine the fuss Ronaldo would've made had we replaced Rooney with Valencia (solid pro,tbf), Obertan and brochure boy Owen ?
One can only imagine………..maybe he would have tried to force a move to city and forced SAF to grovel in press conferences whilst trying to prepare for important CL games? Perhaps he’d have released a statement saying that his teammates weren’t good enough?

That would’ve been terrible wouldn’t it?
 

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I’m not sure why you’d name drop Messi or neymar then. Not similar to Rooney in terms of skill set either. Just better footballers. Like Ronaldo.
I do think they contain Rooney's range of skillset, that's why.
 

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Genuine World Class player in his prime for us who gave everything even when his powers waned.

A Legend.

Yet trashed on here and the dirt rags like the MEN and those frauds McKola and Howson.

The same fans who now put flakey cnuts like Martial and Pogba on a pedestal. :lol:
 

Jeppers7

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Genuine World Class player in his prime for us who gave everything even when his powers waned.

A Legend.

Yet trashed on here and the dirt rags like the MEN and those frauds McKola and Howson.

The same fans who now put flakey cnuts like Martial and Pogba on a pedestal. :lol:
There isn’t an aspect of the game that Pogba is better than Rooney at.
 

Posh Red

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Rooney was a different player, I’d say that. He lacked that clinical edge to be a world class goal scorer year after year and he lacked that top level genius, of a Cantona for example, as a playmaker but was very good at both aspects. For sure he could play long diagonals, Valencia will testify to that. Ronaldo was better in the air and a far better goal scorer. Ronaldo’s first touch and technique were on another level to Rooneys which meant his weight of pass, short and through the lines was better than Rooneys. You surely can’t tell me Rooney was a better athlete than Ronaldo? As for pressing and defending I always felt Rooney was a better player when he stopped charging around the pitch letting his emotions take over. Once SAF got a grip on that he became more effective. He gets praised to the hilt for letting emotion take over, but he was far better once that had left his game. But the long and short of it is that he was nothing like Messi or Neymar. They are better players than he was, whether you want to argue he was more rounded or not he wasn’t as good at football as that level of player.
I would argue Rooney is a better player than Neymar. For all his ability, Neymar is too selfish on the pitch whenever I watch him. Rooney was a team player and for that he ranks higher than Neymar for me.
 
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Bondi77

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I would argue Rooney is a better player than Neymar. For all his ability, Neymar is too selfish on the pitch whenever I watch him. Rooney was a team player and for that he ranks higher then Neymar for me.
Give me a peak Rooney over a peak Neymar any day of the week.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Rooney was a different player, I’d say that. He lacked that clinical edge to be a world class goal scorer year after year and he lacked that top level genius, of a Cantona for example, as a playmaker but was very good at both aspects. For sure he could play long diagonals, Valencia will testify to that. Ronaldo was better in the air and a far better goal scorer. Ronaldo’s first touch and technique were on another level to Rooneys which meant his weight of pass, short and through the lines was better than Rooneys. You surely can’t tell me Rooney was a better athlete than Ronaldo? As for pressing and defending I always felt Rooney was a better player when he stopped charging around the pitch letting his emotions take over. Once SAF got a grip on that he became more effective. He gets praised to the hilt for letting emotion take over, but he was far better once that had left his game. But the long and short of it is that he was nothing like Messi or Neymar. They are better players than he was, whether you want to argue he was more rounded or not he wasn’t as good at football as that level of player.
Yes, because that was that the initial argument until you felt the need to keep reminding everyone of how much better Ronaldo is/was, which was completely unconnected. Rooney was a very complete package (more so than Ronaldo, Neymar etc) , and he was a top player as well. One of the our and the PL's greatest.
 

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Makes you realise how rare it is for top class player to do all the dirty work as well. You see it with ronaldo and messi nowadays where they constantly stand around though it is a factor in their long careers as well. Closer to home we see it now with the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Martial. Bruno is probably the only exception we currently have.
 

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Is Rooney better than Lewandowski?
I think most people outside of an United forum wouldn't say so. Lewandowski's output for such a long period of time just speaks for itself and got him much closer to the best of the world talk.

However, put Rooney as a striker in such a functioning team behind him for years and I think he wouldn't be far off at all.
 

Jeppers7

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Yes, because that was that the initial argument until you felt the need to keep reminding everyone of how much better Ronaldo is/was, which was completely unconnected. Rooney was a very complete package (more so than Ronaldo, Neymar etc) , and he was a top player as well. One of the our and the PL's greatest.
The initial poster quoted Neymar and Messi and said only those two had Rooneys skill set. I added Ronaldo and questioned how Messi and Neymar were worthy of a mention and Ronaldo wasn’t as he’s still playing today. For me Ronaldo is the most complete attacking player to perhaps ever play the game. Their isn’t an aspect of his forward play that wasn’t elite. Rooney is one of our and the premier leagues greatest. Ronaldo and Messi are in a different category altogether, which I know grates on big Rooney fans. For me he never really was as good as people expected him or thought he was going to be as a teenager. He was never a Pele.
 

amolbhatia50k

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The initial poster quoted Neymar and Messi and said only those two had Rooneys skill set. I added Ronaldo and questioned how Messi and Neymar were worthy of a mention and Ronaldo wasn’t as he’s still playing today. For me Ronaldo is the most complete attacking player to perhaps ever play the game. Their isn’t an aspect of his forward play that wasn’t elite. Rooney is one of our and the premier leagues greatest. Ronaldo and Messi are in a different category altogether, which I know grates on big Rooney fans. For me he never really was as good as people expected him or thought he was going to be as a teenager. He was never a Pele.
Trust a Ronaldo fan to get overly defensive and derail the thread. And no, Ronaldo is not the most complete forward ever ffs. His passing is miles from elite, his playmaking doesnt exist, that's a decent chunk of what many attackers do. Please take the fanboy-ism to the other place. This one is about R-O-O-N-E-Y.
 

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I loved Rooney for half his stay at the club. The second half, I was either annoyed at his transfer request or frustrated at his physical fitness declining. His bad games were gutter levels of play.

However, Rooney at his pomp was magic.
 

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He was absolutely unreal and not fully appreciated by some during his playing days.

Managed to combine being lethal and scoring loads of goals whilst also being incredibly entertaining. Scored all types of goals.
 

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The initial poster quoted Neymar and Messi and said only those two had Rooneys skill set. I added Ronaldo and questioned how Messi and Neymar were worthy of a mention and Ronaldo wasn’t as he’s still playing today. For me Ronaldo is the most complete attacking player to perhaps ever play the game. Their isn’t an aspect of his forward play that wasn’t elite. Rooney is one of our and the premier leagues greatest. Ronaldo and Messi are in a different category altogether, which I know grates on big Rooney fans. For me he never really was as good as people expected him or thought he was going to be as a teenager. He was never a Pele.
Fair point but do you believe Ronaldo's game still is elite in all those aspects? I mainly looked at current performance or else Suarez should be easily included for example. As of now, I don't think Ronaldo's game is as expansive as Rooney's was during his peak, which is no stick to beat Ronaldo at all. This Ronaldo isn't the same as during his United and early Real days.
 

devilish

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Makes you realise how rare it is for top class player to do all the dirty work as well. You see it with ronaldo and messi nowadays where they constantly stand around though it is a factor in their long careers as well. Closer to home we see it now with the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Martial. Bruno is probably the only exception we currently have.
On the other hand would Rooney be a better player if he focused more on developing his technique, his finishing, his passing range and his football brain rather then dedicate so much time on work rate? The answer to that is probably yes. I remember when we bought Ronaldo and Rooney. The former was NOT the most rated of the two. Look at them towards the end of their career. Ronaldo is the best player in the Serie A and is still one of the top 5 players in the world while Rooney is managing Derby County.

There's too much emphasis in the EPL on work rate. That's great when the player in question is Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Scott McTominay or Robbie Savage. Its not that great with a striker with the pristine talent of Wayne Rooney.
 

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On the other hand would Rooney be a better player if he focused more on developing his technique, his finishing, his passing range and his football brain rather then dedicate so much time on work rate? The answer to that is probably yes. I remember when we bought Ronaldo and Rooney. The former was NOT the most rated of the two. Look at them towards the end of their career. Ronaldo is the best player in the Serie A and is still one of the top 5 players in the world while Rooney is managing Derby County.

There's too much emphasis in the EPL on work rate. That's great when the player in question is Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Scott McTominay or Robbie Savage. Its not that great with a striker with the pristine talent of Wayne Rooney.
You could make that case yes. Take a player like Berbatov though, could he have benefited from adding some work rate to his incredible technique? On the whole i agree with you, there is an overemphasis on effort and running around in the English game in particular, whereas when you look at teams like Spain it's a more coordinated motion with less wasted energy. Maybe it's fans projecting their limited games onto more technical players as well. Overall a balance is optimal but if you had to choose technique > effort all the time.
 

Jeppers7

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Fair point but do you believe Ronaldo's game still is elite in all those aspects? I mainly looked at current performance or else Suarez should be easily included for example. As of now, I don't think Ronaldo's game is as expansive as Rooney's was during his peak, which is no stick to beat Ronaldo at all. This Ronaldo isn't the same as during his United and early Real days.
Oh I agree with that, Messi isn’t the player he was either and Neymar for me underwhelms. But is seriously talented.
 

Jeppers7

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Trust a Ronaldo fan to get overly defensive and derail the thread. And no, Ronaldo is not the most complete forward ever ffs. His passing is miles from elite, his playmaking doesnt exist, that's a decent chunk of what many attackers do. Please take the fanboy-ism to the other place. This one is about R-O-O-N-E-Y.
:lol: Salty
 

devilish

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You could make that case yes. Take a player like Berbatov though, could he have benefited from adding some work rate to his incredible technique? On the whole i agree with you, there is an overemphasis on effort and running around in the English game in particular, whereas when you look at teams like Spain it's a more coordinated motion with less wasted energy. Maybe it's fans projecting their limited games onto more technical players as well. Overall a balance is optimal but if you had to choose technique > effort all the time.
Well there's a difference between being a Rooney and being a Berbatov though. That's were most forwards fall into. I don't think that anyone could accuse the likes of Roberto Baggio, Gianfranco Zola and Thierry Henry to be lazy even though they didn't shared Rooney's workrate.

Workrate is indeed important in certain positions. Italy for example would have never won the WC without Gattuso. However do you need every single player to run as much as a McT does? Should a striker like Rooney focus on other skills instead?

In the past England had a reputation of a very determined but poorly talented pool of players. That became an unjust criticism decades ago (specifically since the golden generation burst into scene). I am no England talent fan but I'd say that talent wise this England's side is at par if not better to all other top teams during the Euro. However the mentality is still flawed. English players need to learn that they shouldn't run when the ball can the work for you. It needs to stop acting like a pick up truck and start acting like a Bentley. It has all the prestige and the talent to do so.
 
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