We’re getting better at selling

[Cantonagotmehere]

When Ralf said we didnt need open heart surgery, well, the clear out says otherwise.

Didn't he say we needed 10 new players? If I remember correctly.

 

[Melville Red]

You can only sell something if someone else wants what you’re selling.
It’s only worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

Have we actually sold Fred then, I mean as he actually packed up handed in his locker keys and left?

 

[Gopher Brown]

I think if we were ‘getting better at selling’ we’d have shipped off Sancho, Martial and Maguire long before now.

 

[Solius]

I think if we were ‘getting better at selling’ we’d have shipped off Sancho, Martial and Maguire long before now.

Yeah but long before now we weren’t better.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Yeah but long before now we weren’t better.

Well, as long as we get a halfway decent fee for Mount next summer I may agree with the premise.

 

[Reiver]

Couldn't get much worse.

 

[Partridge]

Yes it’s taken a few managers to do this clearout

Bald is best

bald is best. We had moyes, with his floppy, stupid hair. Useless. Van gaal with his tall, grey hair, clearly mental. Rangnick, whose hair hated him. Mourinho, who had all fifty shades of grey, and was a bit of a minge bag. We get erik, with no hair..a sort of patrick stewart light, but who actually knows what he wants. bald power.

 

[Cloud7]

It's an improvement on Woody in that I am almost sure some of these players would have been renewed. So just the act of selling is a step in the right direction. The next step for me is selling players in a more timely manner. Whether they are youth products or transfers that don't seem to be working out, no more waiting years to see if someone will 'come good' because Fletcher did it or because 'there's a player in there, he showed it before and he will come good at United eventually'

 

[Devil You Know]

Fred could play every domestic cup game for me and for that alone is worth more than 25m

As long as he plays for you and not for Manchester United.

 

[VeevaVee]

It's easier to buy and sell when the squad is in half decent shape and most of these players have had some half decent performances in the last season. Fred is cheap, but at least we're actually clearing players out before they become dead wood.

 

[tentan]

Maybe a bit better. But a club like Chelsea would've sold Maguire for 60 mill at least.

 

[Tarrou]

Maybe a bit better. But a club like Chelsea would've sold Maguire for 60 mill at least.

sorry but who is paying 60m for Maguire?

he can't play in a high-line and failed at a big club, on massive wages and has become a global meme for failure

 

[Denis79]

Murtough effect.

 

[pogbasformerbarber]

People on here have outrageously high and absurd expectations…we are one of a few massive clubs.

massive clubs spend speculatively on young and/or elite talent. That means spending big on players that might or might not hit and be elite. If they do hit…YOU KEEP THEM. Or if they don’t…YOU SELL. So you are almost always in a position to lose money on selling a player that is producing BELOW expectations…or might be older at that point.

What do people want? To be Brighton or Fulham? Spend low or hit on a youth player and then right when they are close to world class we sell them for a juicy profit!?!

People expecting actual profits on selling underperforming players we are trying to get rid of are completely mad.

 

[SAFMUTD]

This is exactly how we jinx Maguire's and McTominay's transfers. Thanks

 

[Redstain]

I think recency bias is an important element and United have categorically been known as a club for the last 10 years that has underperformed at all levels so the perception about the value of the players diminishes.

Consider Havertz and Mount I think what's helped their values in moving to other clubs was their contribution in the season they won the UCL. As bad as Maguire has been if United had won the league or even a UCL perception of the players importance skyrockets irrespective of how bad the performances could look in isolation.

If United win major competitions over the next few years and some players around the first team depart it would be a completely different outlook. It's the same reason why City are getting ridiculous fees for youth that have never made a first team appearance, the allure of Pep and the clubs success invariably leaves the idea that the youth players are are special bunch in comparison to the rest.

 

[Marcus]

When we have no CL, we have to overpay players' wages. Hopefully we keep doing well from now on on the trophies front and don't need to bribe players to join us with high wages. The selling will then take care of itself in time.

 

[Plastic Evra]

sorry but who is paying 60m for Maguire?

United.

 

[the_cliff]

A pre requisite of getting better at selling is to get better at buying.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Fred money is a joke

 

[Tarrou]

United.

no chance

unless you're for some reason referring to when we bought him, which makes no sense

 

[stoinz]

Sorry who had we sold again? We had only sold Iqbal and Telles. The rest are news but not confirmed sales.

 

[December_16]

Sorry who had we sold again? We had only sold Iqbal and Telles. The rest are news but not confirmed sales.

Elanga went for decent money.

 

[stoinz]

Elanga went for decent money.

oh ya. Kinda forgotten him he played for us. But my point is we haven't really offload any of our notable deadwoods to say we gotten better at selling.
Sure there are news of Magguire, Fred, AWB, DVB and MCT but we haven't really sold any of them. To say we are getting better is a bit premature.

But we did got better at signing players.

 

[December_16]

oh ya. Kinda forgotten him he played for us. But my point is we haven't really offload any of our notable deadwoods to say we gotten better at selling.
Sure there are news of Magguire, Fred, AWB, DVB and MCT but we haven't really sold any of them. To say we are getting better is a bit premature.

But we did got better at signing players.

Fred and Maguire are gone, just a matter of official confirmation. DVB most likely gone too, at least on loan. AWB is not deadwood and no plan of selling him, he’s most likely our first choice RB too. McT is not deadwood either, if he goes, he will fetch good money. I think we are getting more ruthless at getting rid of mediocre players who don’t fit the system, which to me is the definition of “getting better”. It also sends a strong message to the rest of the squad to buckle up and perform if they want to remain. This mentality also applies to letting high wage players go on a free, like DDG, Ronaldo, maybe even Pogba.

Transfer fee is just one aspect of selling and doesn’t tell the whole story.

 

[roonster09]

Discuss. Disagree. Fight in the replies please.

Read somewhere that Fred will be the second player that Jose signed or gave debut to, who will fetch a transfer fee. So checked transfermarkt site to see who all were signed and gave debut to, it was tragic.

Jose signings and players he gave debut to (all in euros as per transfermarkt for buying price)

Total spent - 432 million (didn't add any fee for Sanchez as it was player swap)
Total recouped - 95 milllion (including 15 million for Fred)
Debutants - Only McTominay is remaining and can be sold for 35 million.
From his time only 3 players are in the squad. Lindelof, McT and Dalot. 2 of them are squad players and Dalot is 1st or 2nd choice RB.

Spoiler: Jose signings + debutants

	Buying Price	Selling Price	Squad Status
Paul Pogba	105	0
Henrikh Mkhitaryan	42	0
Eric Bailly	38	0
Zlatan Ibrahimović	0	0
Romelu Lukaku	84.7	80
Nemanja Matic	44.7	0
Victor Lindelöf	35		Squad player
Alexis Sánchez	p/e	0
Fred	59	15
Diogo Dalot	22		1st/2nd RB
Lee Grant	1.7	0
Angel Gomes	Youth	0
Josh Harrop	Youth	0
Demetri Mitchell	Youth	0
McTominay	Youth		Squad player
Joel Pereira	Youth	0
Tuanzebe	Youth	0
Ethan Hamilton	Youth	0

Ole signings and players he gave debut to (all in euros as per transfermarkt for buying price)
Total spent - 450 million
Total recouped - 111 Milllion
Debutants - Players like Henderson, B Williams can get transfer fee close to 25-30 million.
Players from his time -
Bruno - Captain and arguably our best player
Raphaël Varane - First choice CB
AWB - like Dalot, 1st or 2nd RB

Sancho - Squad player
Greenwood - Squad player

Amad - One for the future
Pellistri - One for the future
Hannibal - One for the future


De Beek - Not needed, might be gone
Henderson - Not needed, might be gone
Brandon Williams - Not needed, might be gone

Spoiler: Ole signing and debutants

Buying Price	Selling Price	Squad Status	Squad Status
Harry Maguire	87	34.6
Bruno Fernandes	65		First team
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	55		1st/2nd RB
Daniel James	17.8	32.3
Donny van de Beek	39		back up player, to be sold
Amad Diallo	21.3		Young player
Alex Telles	15	5
Facundo Pellistri	8.5		Young player
Edinson Cavani	0	0
Jadon Sancho	85		Squad player
Raphaël Varane	40		First team
Cristiano Ronaldo	17	0
Tom Heaton	0		back up player
Dean Henderson	Youth		Squad player
James Garner	Youth	18
Greenwood	Youth		Squad player
Chong	Youth	2.8
Mellor	Youth	0
Bernarad	Youth	0
Ramazani	Youth	0
Levitt	Youth	0
Galbraith	Youth	0
Mengi	Youth		Academy
Laird	Youth	0.8
Brandon Williams	Youth		back up player
Hannibal	Youth		Young player
Will Fish	Youth		Academy
Elanga	Youth	17.5
Shola	Youth		Academy

We have clearly improved, especially selling young players from reserves instead of losing them for nothing.

 

[MileStolar]

I agree with @Solius, we are getting better, very slowly though.

What's paramount in my opinion is to manage our wage structure, which I also believe got better, however that is very hard thing to do and takes a lot of time.

Ultimately it all comes down to performance, the better we do the more our players will be worth. Even the fringe ones.

 

[VP89]

Didn't he say we needed 10 new players? If I remember correctly.

He said we need 5/6/8/10 new players and they took the upper end.
But he wasn't wrong.

Antony
Malacia
Eriksen
Martinez
Onana
Hojlund
Mount
Amrabat
Todibo/Pavard

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I think it starts with controlling wages, I do not mind paying top wages to top players like Varane, Cas, or even in a new contracts to someone like Rashford, but we should not handout top contracts to a new comer who isn't a top player or yet to be one, Antony starting at 200k pw is too much, I get it if it is given to Mount who had similar offer with Chelsea but Antony clearly didn't deserve that much and i guess our desperation to get a new RW was evident last summer, this window, it seems that Onana & Hojlund will not be on top wages (if I am wrong let me know), which is good, and we have gotten rid or about to get rid of high earners who do not contribute like CR7, DDG and Maguire, with that, it will be easier to sell others, remember, our biggest fees recently apart from Lukaku came from selling players who were on low wages like James & Elanga, and even someone like McTom we can get a great fee for him because he is on low wages.

 

[Plastic Evra]

no chance

unless you're for some reason referring to when we bought him, which makes no sense

Obviously a joke but United did pay that and more for him not that long ago.

 

[davidmichael]

Maguire for £30 million, Elanga for £15 million, Fred for £13 million, Kovar for £8 million, Telles for £6 million, Zidane for £1 million, Laird for £1 million, Savage for £500K and Bishop for £1 million then De Gea, Tuanzebe, Bailly and Jones all also off the wage bill and potentially Henderson and VDB still to also go in the next week or two so that’s around £75 million so far in outgoings and around £1.2 million a week off the wage bill not including the Ronaldo wages from January which is another £500K a week so say £1.7 million a week.

We have brought in Onana for £43 million, Mount for £55 million, Hojlund for £64 million and Evans on a free so currently £162 million spent with another £20 million potentially on Amrabat and £30 million on either Pavard or Todibo so another £50 million thus taking us to £212 million spent plus roughly around £430K a week in wages from respected journalist reports and another £150K a week if Amrabat and Todibo both come in and Evans signs a year contract so say £580K a week.

When you add it all up like that we’d be saving over a million a week in wages so £50+ million and a rough net spend of £150 million but with barely any deadwood left or players that can’t play how ETH wants us too, a younger and hungrier squad. I’d say from that standpoint we’ve got better at selling as outside of Welbeck I can’t remember the last time we managed to get a good fee for someone we wanted to move on.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

We should thank the gods WHU have money in the bank, a need to buy and one of the last connoisseurs of the "all British" game at the helm. Close to 70 million pounds for Maguire and McT is as good as it gets. But you can't blame Murtough and co. for six years of spending a fortune to become the antithesis of modern football where things like physicality and work-rate mean feck all without ability on the ball and quickness of thought.

It seems that we have managed to establish open channels of communication with Forest. This is definitely a nice change from the days when Woodward and Judge were being described as quite arrogant and aloof by representatives of other PL clubs. There's a human element behind these transactions that often goes unnoticed. Driving a hard bargain is OK, being a prick isn't.

Another thing is that we seem to be sending the right messages when clubs try to low-ball us. The art of saying no but not leaving the table. Not a poker face, but signalling to the buyer: "Go a bit higher and we'll get there". Part of it, contrary to what the Caf thinks, is down to understanding what the market is willing to pay and go with that evaluation instead of being intransigent to protect the value. Small steps toward the right direction.

 

[wolvored]

I think it starts with controlling wages, I do not mind paying top wages to top players like Varane, Cas, or even in a new contracts to someone like Rashford, but we should not handout top contracts to a new comer who isn't a top player or yet to be one, Antony starting at 200k pw is too much, I get it if it is given to Mount who had similar offer with Chelsea but Antony clearly didn't deserve that much and i guess our desperation to get a new RW was evident last summer, this window, it seems that Onana & Hojlund will not be on top wages (if I am wrong let me know), which is good, and we have gotten rid or about to get rid of high earners who do not contribute like CR7, DDG and Maguire, with that, it will be easier to sell others, remember, our biggest fees recently apart from Lukaku came from selling players who were on low wages like James & Elanga, and even someone like McTom we can get a great fee for him because he is on low wages.

Agree. Antony was on £20k a week so surely if we offered quadruple wages he would still have come. This is the only fly in he ointment wage wise since Woodward left, I can think of. If we can move Sancho off the books to Villa, who seem interested, then we have come a long way to getting the inflated wages for undeserved performances, under control.

 

[onemanarmy]

oh ya. Kinda forgotten him he played for us. But my point is we haven't really offload any of our notable deadwoods to say we gotten better at selling.
Sure there are news of Magguire, Fred, AWB, DVB and MCT but we haven't really sold any of them. To say we are getting better is a bit premature.

But we did got better at signing players.

Maguire and Fred just needs confirmation from the clubs, DVB is close and we aren't trying to sell McTominay and AWB. AWB has been offered a new contract if rumours are true.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

10m euro plus 5m addon's for Fred. Awful as usual, took to August to get that. Selling him all Summer. John and Arnold are horrendous at negotiating.

How would have made a club pay more for a pretty average player we obviously don't want to keep, doesn't want to stay, isn't in high demand and has less than 12 months left of his contract?

I'd be fascinated to get your insights.

 

[Garethw]

I don’t think we are any better at selling at all. I think we’ve become better at cutting our losses.

 

[sincher]

As noted by a few above, it's not just the fees. I feel like we are a bit more properly determined to move out players who are not in our plans. We have been wishy washy about this in the past. I think ETH plays it really straight. I mean Fred is a prime example, he must have made it clear right at the start of the window that he should probably find a new club to play more regularly, and put him on the market. I am surprised we didn't get a bit more, but you can't fault the clarity.

Fred, Elanga, Telles, Maguire, Kovar, Savage, Iqbal all moving on, the last few with buyback/sell-on clauses all seem like good business to me. I would not have minded keeping Fred at all but clear ETH wants players who keep the ball better and who am I to argue with that?

Ideally, we still have a few more to sell - Henderson, Bailly, Williams, Van de Beek, maybe McTominay. If we manage to move them on as well, I think you have to give him considerable credit.

 

[Apokalips]

People on here have outrageously high and absurd expectations…we are one of a few massive clubs.

massive clubs spend speculatively on young and/or elite talent. That means spending big on players that might or might not hit and be elite. If they do hit…YOU KEEP THEM. Or if they don’t…YOU SELL. So you are almost always in a position to lose money on selling a player that is producing BELOW expectations…or might be older at that point.

What do people want? To be Brighton or Fulham? Spend low or hit on a youth player and then right when they are close to world class we sell them for a juicy profit!?!

People expecting actual profits on selling underperforming players we are trying to get rid of are completely mad.

Exactly, for the most part if you're selling for a big fee it is because you didn't really want to sell that player. It is very rare that a big fee would come in for a player you aren't that fussed about losing. We could easily sell high if we were up for selling Bruno and Rashford, but we don't.

Our problem is holding onto and persevering with busted flushes too long. We should cut losses earlier or buy upgrades and relegate individuals to squad members, and eventually sold, sooner.

 

[baskinginthesun]

Arguably, you could always squeeze a few extra million out of a deal. But, the fact that were selling players and creating some revenue from the sales is huge progress. It opens up so much more for us in the transfer market to mould the squad.

 

[Solius]

I don’t think we are any better at selling at all. I think we’ve become better at cutting our losses.

Also called selling.