MrSingh2002
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- Dec 16, 2013
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LAST season. We have a new squad and starting 11 now. Counts for nothing.Funny because we beat City last season.
LAST season. We have a new squad and starting 11 now. Counts for nothing.Funny because we beat City last season.
0-0 at home, still beat them away though. So we do have a scooby..At home?
Come on man it definitely counts for something.LAST season. We have a new squad and starting 11 now. Counts for nothing.
So we lost the vital game at home in the Carabao and City made sure we didn't beat them enough to get to a final. Maybe we do know how to beat them, LvG beat them. Maybe he needs to work out how to beat the lesser teams instead of just trying to win against the big teams. Something we didn't do very well last year. Showing some balls we might have had a EL win, but no, why try to win it in 90 minutes.0-0 at home, still beat them away though. So we do have a scooby..
Come on man it definitely comes for something.
I think that’s what he’s trying to do putting out more attack minded teams it just hasn’t worked yet.So we lost the vital game at home in the Carabao and City made sure we didn't beat them enough to get to a final. Maybe we do know how to beat them, LvG beat them. Maybe he needs to work out how to beat the lesser teams instead of just trying to win against the big teams. Something we didn't do very well last year. Showing some balls we might have had a EL win, but no, why try to win it in 90 minutes.
I fully understand your point I just don't think its right.You're not getting this. It's got nothing to do with Pep. You could replace him with 18 other names from the PL.
Our performances are a lottery. Sometimes we line up well and play well from the start, sometimes we don't, but if we don't then our coaching staff have no clue how to change things. Our subs and tactical changes are random and sometimes they work, but just as often they don't or even make us worse. There is no logic to them and therefore no consistency. It's akin to guessing. 'We need a goal? Let's sub on a striker'. 'They're attacking us? Let's bring on a defender'.
That's Sunday League level of thinking and was highlighted yesterday in the way Klopp knew exactly what was wrong in the first half and made the correct tactical change without needing to swap any of his players. We just can't do that.
Yeah agreed. I think the problem is that putting more attackers in a team doesn't always make you play more attacking football. You need a base in midfield to attack from. I'm willing to bet that if we'd swapped ronaldo and sancho for two similar quality midfielders, we'd find it easier to control games and create attacking situations. Probably defend better to boot.I think that’s what he’s trying to do putting out more attack minded teams it just hasn’t worked yet.
Exactly.Liverpool just did it with Jordan Henderson (a laughing stock pre Klopp) and an academy lad Jones in CM, and James Milner at full back, but apparently we need 2 more World Class players in CM in order to perform.
Make no mistake, this is the standard and we’re miles off it.
It is simply possible, that a team is setup in a way, that simply said leads it to score more goals than the opponent.Ole can't read a game and change it? Yet we came from behind to win more than any other team last season. Something doesn't add up there unless all those comebacks are being put down to luck or chance.
Because he went on a run of 8 or 9 good games and was a breath of fresh air after the fog of Mourinho and a lot of fans were calling for it. The reason we are where we are as a club is because of decisions like this was, aimless groping in the dark by a leadership team who have no experience of running a football club. Ole was never a top manager and shouldn't have been a realistic option for us, he did the job of clearing the air brilliantly, but that was the extent of his abilities. We should have then thanked him profusely, shaken his hand and appointed a qualified manager. He'd have carried on being a fan hero (he always will be, this period hasn't impacted my opinion of the bloke, its not his fault he's not capable) and perhaps moved into a different role.We have a really tough run if fixtures coming up, can see the fans getting restless if we produce more performances like we have vs Villa and Everton, only then might we see the incompetents running the club grow a set of balls and sack Ole.
How he managed to get a 3 year extension still baffles me.
Apart from top 4 finishes hes failed to deliver.
Still hasnt worked out how to play against a low block team, over 3 years and still hasnt figured it out, means hes highly unlikely to do so.
Has been backed to the tune of 300m and struggled against bang average sides.
If he has the clubs best interest at heart like he claims he would admit the job is too big for him and hand in his resignation...I wont hold my breath.
I mean, that’s exactly where some fans are. At least before it was ”we just need a Varane”, or ”if we only signed Sancho”. Now the one player that will change everything is Declan fecking RiceIt's ok folks, once we sign Declan rice for 100m we'll be ok.
He's going to Chelsea.It's ok folks, once we sign Declan rice for 100m we'll be ok.
Look I don't want to be a messiah and say , hey I told you so. But I have done lot of research on tactics by various teams and I closely watch lot of managers. The thread was created after we lost at Istanbul last year but it wasn't a one off incident. I understand people were not so keen to write off Ole because of who he was and not who is he now. But I am happy that people are realizing slowly that we need to have a change.The "awfully" is so strong in the thread title every time I read it. @bond19821982 was really fed up.
Remember 2014 when we hired Van Gaal and Spurs brought in Pochettino? If we had swapped managers do people think Pochettino would have failed to at least establish us in the top four? I think Potter is in the exact position that Pochettino was in 2014 and if Spurs/Arsenal get him they will easily take our CL spot away.Potter would be a very risky choice, yes, but stranger things have happened in football. Arrigo Sacchi came straight from the runner up in Serie B to lead Milan to their first league title in 9 years in his first season, Nagelsman is 33 years old and already the head coach of Bayern Munich and they are doing just fine. Mourinho didnt have the best rep around here nowadays but his breakthrough at Porto was similarly meteoric.
You just have to take a leap of faith and bank on a manager on the up, if those at the absolute zenith of their career isnt available. Sure, it can end in a debacle like AvB with Chelsea, but at least not for want of trying, and not like Chelsea had trouble winning since.
I fully share in your sentiment. I think Ole has done better than I expected even, in terms of finishing top 4 consecutively twice and what he has done in the transfer market. Although he has been the biggest or second biggest chequebook manager during his tenure.Look I don't want to be a messiah and say , hey I told you so. But I have done lot of research on tactics by various teams and I closely watch lot of managers. The thread was created after we lost at Istanbul last year but it wasn't a one off incident. I understand people were not so keen to write off Ole because of who he was and not who is he now. But I am happy that people are realizing slowly that we need to have a change.
We still don't have a style or pattern or plan on how to play. Even Norwich has a style and they are sticking to it. Even after 3 years, we are still nowhere and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
We have a fecking GOAT with us now supported by Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Varane, Maguire. We are wasting their potential under Ole. The sooner we understand this, better for the team.
You're absolutely right. We have no defined style.I know it’s almost become a meme at this point to complain about our apparent lack of any cohesive way of playing. I think that mostly stems from the fact that it’s been repeated so often, not so much that’s it’s wrong, per se. If i was just to talk about Chelsea, Liverpool and City here because they are our rivals and the teams that we are, nominally, competing with for the title.
Perhaps Chelsea don’t factor into this as much as Liverpool and City because Tuchel has only been there for a short amount of time, but i think we can agree he’s implemented a certain style there. But anyway, the point is, when City or Liverpool (and Chelsea i guess) are playing a game, you have a certain understanding of how that game (and those teams) are going to play. Or certainly, how they want to play. Whether you can actually articulate how they play is irrelevant, really. You can throw out things like “high press” “counter pressing”,etc., but really, what matters is that when you mention those teams there’s an image that pops in your head of how they play. Now sometimes that doesn’t work. Sometimes they lose, sometimes they play poorly and look a mess. But the point is, if I say City are on TV tonight, you immediately know what sort of game it will be and how they will play (or at least attempt to play). Again, it may not work out for them. They may draw 0-0 at home against Southampton. But that’s not the point. It conjures up an image in your head of how they WANT to play
I don’t get that with United. We may win or we may lose (just like those teams) but i have absolutely no idea what they will TRY and play like. Basically, there is no picture that forms in my head, like the teams i mentioned above, when i see United are going to be on TV. It’s basically a crapshoot. I think that is what annoys fans the most. The results aren’t catastrophic. We finished second last season which is decent. We're only a point or two off the top now. Alright, our cup results aren’t great. But it’s that lack of knowing what the feck your going to get served up from one week to the next which is the most frustrating thing for me.
Don’t forget that we need to tie Ole down to a 8 year contract (minimum) so that the players don’t go around worrying about his job security.It's ok folks, once we sign Declan rice for 100m we'll be ok.
He should never have been offered a contract when he first came in as caretaker. As soon as the contract was announced we went on a horrible run, players looked like they werent paying attention at that point. 3 years down the line and we are basically in the same position albeit with a better squad. I dont see much changing between now and the end of the season. We will most likely scrape top 4 but no chance we sustain a challenge this season.Because he went on a run of 8 or 9 good games and was a breath of fresh air after the fog of Mourinho and a lot of fans were calling for it. The reason we are where we are as a club is because of decisions like this was, aimless groping in the dark by a leadership team who have no experience of running a football club. Ole was never a top manager and shouldn't have been a realistic option for us, he did the job of clearing the air brilliantly, but that was the extent of his abilities. We should have then thanked him profusely, shaken his hand and appointed a qualified manager. He'd have carried on being a fan hero (he always will be, this period hasn't impacted my opinion of the bloke, its not his fault he's not capable) and perhaps moved into a different role.
This does sound good, I'll give you that, and I would also celebrate it, if the conditions were like this: the match starts, United plays well, the other team plays well too and it is stalemate or a lucky lead in a tight game. Then Ole makes a change, we are still good but the other teams dwindles or whatever and we can take the result. I definitely applaud that scenario and Ole had that on a few occasions.I fully understand your point I just don't think its right.
Ole can't read a game and change it? Yet we came from behind to win more than any other team last season. Something doesn't add up there unless all those comebacks are being put down to luck or chance.
Now if the argument is Ole hasn't got us passing the ball properly and this is further exposed against lesser teams that I'd agree with. Because that's what's actually happening on the pitch.
From where i sit i dont think it's tactical nous getting us those extra points though. It was mostly down to Bruno pulling something out of the bag last season. We are not changing systems or anything like that. We are just terrible at conceding early, one of the worst in the league (just 5 worse than us), even when we are a better team with better players. It's expected that we would go on to win many of those games with the players we have.I fully understand your point I just don't think its right.
Ole can't read a game and change it? Yet we came from behind to win more than any other team last season. Something doesn't add up there unless all those comebacks are being put down to luck or chance.
Now if the argument is Ole hasn't got us passing the ball properly and this is further exposed against lesser teams that I'd agree with. Because that's what's actually happening on the pitch.
Fire Ole. That is the answer to the how to solve our midfield problem thread. Anyone here who watch football long enough sure remember the pre Klopp Henderson. He is a laughing stock and a butt of jokes in the prem. If someone from 2021 time travel to back then and told all of us that Henderson will captain Liverpool for their first PL title we surely will lock him in the asylum.Exactly.
Chelsea also started with Loftus-Cheek, Hudson-Odoi and Trevoh Chalobah on Saturday.
Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
It's a disjointed mess. Car crash football.Watching the game yesterday made me sad for two different reasons.
City is way ahead of us tactically, say what you will about Pep and his spending, but the guys is astute as feck as a manager, the team is incredibly well drilled, they almost seems to have an extra player sometimes. Pep makes mistakes with lots of players, but he can really turn a team.
Liverpool is not so crafty, but their simplicity is magnificent. No nonsense football, direct, high tempo when needed, can go high and low, full of energy. Look at them in paper, and for what they play lots of names are lackluster. In theory, they should play as well as they do.
And now look at us. Can't string simple passes, players seem to have zero clue to where to make a run, infiltrate, triangle a play, how to commit a tactical foul, cover defensive ground... It's just so frustrating.
Add in the fact that Ole removed a lot of players that were considered not United players like Fellaini and Rojo.Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
Here here. Posted almost an identical post in January. It’s incredible actually to see nine months on that Mourinhos win percentage still hasn’t even been passed. I genuinely thought it would be by now.Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
A bit of both for sure. That being said, I clearly remember a time before Ole when the team would get down and the they would show a collective "here we go again " attitude and shit themselves. Ole has done a phenomenal job through recruitment and coaching in getting players that are mentally tough and do not give in when things get difficult. Now that we have a team with a backbone again, we need some actual coaching and strategy to take us to the next level. I have my doubts if Ole is the guy for that.People keep pointing out the number of points Ole has earned from losing positions being a good thing. Surely part of this is down to us being behind more than the other top teams? I mean, sure, we came from behind whatever, 13 times, but I'm 99% sure City weren't behind in 10 matches last season, so them not 'coming from behind' is hardly a stick to beat them with.
I'd happily take a simple, controlled 2-0 victory thanks very much.
I agree. If Mourinho had left at the end of his second season when we finished 2nd, there would not be this revisionism about his time in charge. The start of the third season was dire after his threw his toys out of the pram but it doesn't retroactively ruin the two trophies and solid second season.Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
I don’t want Mourinho back but god damn.Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
Man,that's depressing. Basically , result wise we haven't improved at all ?Just a reminder that our overall points per match under Mourinho was 1.97 from 144 games. It’s 1.83 from 142 games since Ole became permanent manager (1.89 factoring in his time as interim as well, from 161 games).
Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Our average goals scored under Mourinho was 1.74, 0.9 conceded, for a GD of 0.84. Since Ole became permanent manager, his average is 1.92 scored and 1.14 conceded, for an average goal difference of 0.78.
Mourinho won two trophies as well. I am not saying Mourinho was the right fit but this revisionism that we are soooo much better now is nonsense. Things feel positive because we removed Mou and his constant negativity, but we get less points per game, and while we score a bit more, we concede more which more than negates the extra goals. This is after spending 100s of millions on top of what we had spent already. We still have no recognizable direction and are completely clueless when it matters (finals and semifinals)
Im not sure thats conclusive.It seems like Ole is a fantastic man manager. Maybe all we need is a Quieroz to really revolutionise the coaching and develop a noticeable playing style. Would it be worth mixing it up a bit in the first team coaching staff before giving Ole the boot, or am I just fooling myself?