We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Fair enough, but we are still 20 xG (and goals) behind City and Liverpool on the table. No doubt we have been very wasteful under RR, but we could still do much better
The problem is that RR wants quicker passes. We carry the ball forward until there is no other option.
Yeah, strange bump it was but redcafe in a nutshell I guess. We press much better and create chances, midfield is a big problem still though.
Awfully coached or too many uncoachables?
Their national team performances and performances at other clubs would suggest the former. Just look at hardworking Martial against Elche - that took Lopetegui's team a few weeks to get out of him. One thing is being shit everywhere, another thing is being shit only here. We have a lot of players who are mostly shit here. The reasons for that are probably not all down to mentality of the players.
I think asking questions about the coaching isn't unreasonable given the evidence on the pitch. Let's not pretend Rangnick showed up with a team of world class coaches. We had an emergency coaching team put together because Ole's was failing dramatically and PSG understandably refused to let us get Pochettino and his coaching staff mid-season.
Someone else can confirm but I believe our XG difference under Ralf, between chances on goal vs chances conceded, is as wide as the title challengers this season.
Unless you want Ralf to pick up the ball himself and boot it in the back of the net, there's little else he can do with the cards dealt.
This. I was watching the PSG game on the side and I was comparing how they kept the ball. Verrati and Paredes didnt lose the ball where as McFred under a little pressure cannot handle the football. I seen players come out of tricky positions and line break passes but it seems the ball is always bouncing of our midfielders.
If people can't see the progress Rangnick has made , they should stop replying posts and watch more . Not to mention the context Rangnick has been under: the most craziest media pressure and fan expectation, leaking news all over the place, tight fixtures and COVID hit, limited player options to implement his tactics , unhappy players who were over-promised and wanted to leave anyhow, upside down style change from counter-attack football to gegenpressing.
Now you could see at least 45 mins of play with well drill game plan and effective execution, creating way more chances to allow our forwards to waste. All we need is to carry on and make it 90 min.
Now you could see at least 45 mins of play with well drill game plan and effective execution, creating way more chances to allow our forwards to waste. All we need is to carry on and make it 90 min.
Im at the stage where i dont think i can put the blame on the coach now.. theres no way this is just another coach doesn't know what he is doing, We heard from so many decent sources Ralf is a man to be listened to, and knows his football.
He came in with his own vision and system which the players worked at for a couple games. Now he seemingly has just abandoned his plan to suit these players, & just reverted back to what they already know unfortunately. This says to me they are either too stupid to/ refuse to adapt to the new tactics, or simply not good enough.. Prob a mix of both.
I honestly think we could bring in a Klopp/Pep/SAF super coaching team and we would get the same sh*t. If anythings gotta change, its these lad's attitudes... or the majority of the players shipped out for players who want to be there / actually want to be coached
It will be interesting when a new coach comes in how they act, knowing he's not there for just a couple months. I think it will only be so long before the players start the same sh*t leaking stories and wanting their own way though. Hopefully it's someone who is absolutely ruthless and just starts cleaning the team out from day one. Thats prob their best chance of succeeding
He came in with his own vision and system which the players worked at for a couple games. Now he seemingly has just abandoned his plan to suit these players, & just reverted back to what they already know unfortunately. This says to me they are either too stupid to/ refuse to adapt to the new tactics, or simply not good enough.. Prob a mix of both.
I honestly think we could bring in a Klopp/Pep/SAF super coaching team and we would get the same sh*t. If anythings gotta change, its these lad's attitudes... or the majority of the players shipped out for players who want to be there / actually want to be coached
It will be interesting when a new coach comes in how they act, knowing he's not there for just a couple months. I think it will only be so long before the players start the same sh*t leaking stories and wanting their own way though. Hopefully it's someone who is absolutely ruthless and just starts cleaning the team out from day one. Thats prob their best chance of succeeding
Some people just dont seem to understand what Ralf is doing. Let me put it like this - Lets say United is a ship in a race around the world. The past Captain went out poorly prepared. The ship is at disarray. The captain takes them into one disaster after the other. They hit icebergs, they get hammered by pirate ships, they hit storms. The ship is on fire, water is coming through everywhere and the crew wants to abandon ship. The owners hear the mayday. The send out a new captain and send the old captain off. The new captain is putting out fires left right and center, he is bailing out water, he gets rid of anyone and anything that is excess baggage. His job is to right the ship and get it to safe harbor for repairs. On the radio people are saying throw the crew out. All of them. They are useless. Make a new mast. You should be back in the race by now.
This is where Rangnick is. He is just trying to get us to the end of the season. Yes he can make some minor repairs when possible. Yes he can try and galvanize the team and teach them to be better. Get them better disciplined. Get them pulling together. But only to a point. We need to get to the end of the season by whatever means possible. If we can sail into the end of the season and everyone is like family and turn world class and they manage to fix a lot of the issues on the way then happy days. But that would be a miracle. Lets just get to the end of the season by whatever means possible and start again in the summer.
And in fact this is what Ralf has been saying at his press conferences. Yes I can see what this team needs but our priority is the next game. Our priority is top 4.
This is where Rangnick is. He is just trying to get us to the end of the season. Yes he can make some minor repairs when possible. Yes he can try and galvanize the team and teach them to be better. Get them better disciplined. Get them pulling together. But only to a point. We need to get to the end of the season by whatever means possible. If we can sail into the end of the season and everyone is like family and turn world class and they manage to fix a lot of the issues on the way then happy days. But that would be a miracle. Lets just get to the end of the season by whatever means possible and start again in the summer.
And in fact this is what Ralf has been saying at his press conferences. Yes I can see what this team needs but our priority is the next game. Our priority is top 4.
That one ‘pass’ from Fred last night, tells you everything you need to know about what Ralf’s working with.
Why is this thread still bring bumped? This was made during Ole’s tenure for Ole and has nothing to do with Ralf
Absolutely. It will be the same with your fan base I’m sure but I’ve come to the conclusion they’ll always be a section of moaning, likely immature, posters who only see what they want to see.
Of course it is the second. People that still have go at managers are just those who don't realize that their idols can't play football. To little football knowledge in those players. Lets hope somehow Rangnick can teach these players so we can win some games. Solskjaer did it for a while. Mourinho and vanGaal did it for a while. But in the end it always goes back to players and their lack of will and character.
We press much better? Look who we've been playing.
We aren't better than we were under Ole last season.
We're not the best coached team in the world right now but since RR has joined, we're getting into good positions and situations to create goal scoring chances, but the players let themselves down with a poor first touch or a touch in the wrong direction completely ignoring where the play is supposed to develop, we overhit or udnerhit important passes, make wrong decisions with shooting or passing and fluff or take weak shots.
The amount of times we absolutely piss our pants just at the crunch moment really annoys me. It seems now to be a quality issue more than anything else.
The amount of times we absolutely piss our pants just at the crunch moment really annoys me. It seems now to be a quality issue more than anything else.
Dont agree at all. I guess you decided what you want to believe without properly watching what's in front of you. Cheers.
Edit: Just seen you wrote ship was steadied after 3 games with Carrick in charge.. Jesus.
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Well, last year, we picked up 74 points from 38 games - just under 2.0 PPG. Since Ole was sacked, we've picked up 26 from 13 - exactly 2.0 PPG. The football is vastly better too.
we are much better than we were under him last October & November
getting battered by watford Leicester & co
Ole's football last season was the peak of what he could achieve, so I'd say Ralf's doing okay to be as good in significantly less time.
The signs were there last season that our football was absolutely not sustainable and far away from what's expected from a modern team. At least we're starting to correct that. It was never going to be an easy transition after years of severe under-coaching and drastic changes in philosophy under different managers.
Important win last night. Still not convinced by us. Still think we will get bashed by city and Liverpool and better teams with way we are set up.
I agree with this,
I actually think the team looks reasonably balanced and a lot better in terms of general all round play, i just think its a quality issue with certain areas of the pitch and certain aspects of the game that lets us down.
Shaw is a great player going forward, but his reading of the game is poor at times, his positioning is awful through out the game,
Fred is a very good player in regards to breaking up the play and pressing, however his decision making can be lacklustre,
Rashford is similar, we know he can produce, just his decision making at times is poor.
There are several other aspects that can be brought up, but i feel whilst we have quality in our side, we also lack quality in vital areas which makes us look a worse team than what we actually are.
Goals paper over a lot of issues, we tend to panic in the crucial moments, like when there's a counter attack brewing, one of our players will play a pass behind a teammate and the attack dies even before it starts.
Ronaldo keeps making runs every 3-4 mins, our players ignore him most of the times, then when after 20 mins and 5 unproductive runs Ronaldo does get a chance, he's too frustrated and snatches at it, not to forget that at 37 he's obviously not as clinical anymore. Scot and Fred do not trust their own first touch and rightly so, they have to take a couple of extra touches to move play from one side to another, gives enough time to the opposition to get in to position.
Little things like these are missing in our players right now.
We're surely going to have to upgrade on a lot of players.
This is basically the crux of our problem. Time and time again you see it in the middle of the park, if you watch our matches on TV, whenever we try to play it out from the back there is never any United player on screen in the middle of the park from that midfield, except McTominay who hides so he can barely recieve a pass. This then forces our players to play it wide constantly, or the occasional long ball and then either lose it or just keep passing it around the back. It's the complete lack of movement that's killing us, for some reason our 2 other midfielders are content to stay wandering around by our forward line rather than come into the middle or deep for a pass, it's the most frustrating shit i've ever seen and we do it constantly. If our players moved around a bit we'd look half decent but a lot of them play like statues out there. an entire midfield revamp is needed.
Pretty much spot on.
When you say get to the end of the season, what do you mean exactly?
Do whatever is necessary to get top 4 (play sht football if necessary, sit back, play counter, play 4-2-3-1, dont become press masters, play players that Rangnick wants out but he needs them etc) and try to at least not completely sink (getting 6/7/8, down tools etc). Everything else is a bonus. Im not saying dont try to improve. Im saying the improvement is the icing on the cake and the cake is missing several key ingredients and is falling apart.
So we are a cake without eggs, sailing on a sea without a mast.
I think I get what you are saying!
Ah okay yeah, I think I agree.
I saw all I needed to see last night to see that we will be badly exposed by better teams without major improvements.
We've had a very easy fixture list which is about to get a lot tougher. From the start of March we have:
City (a)
Spurs (h)
Atletico Madrid (h)
Liverpool (a)
Leicester (h)
Everton (a)
Norwich (h)
Arsenal (a)
Brentford (h)
Brighton (a)
Chelsea (h)
Palace (a)
Out of those I'd say only Norwich and Brentford games should be easy. I think we're going to get exposed badly by the better teams, I'd love to be wrong but from what I saw last night and in the previous games I don't see any other outcome.
It looks for me that none of them are easy with how we play. It will probably be a lot of loss and draws.
It's funny this thread is bumped now. Shows it actually hit the bulls eye when the manager was Ole .
Ralf isn't ready for this yet because
-He just started.
-He hasn't had a transfer window yet (he may not have one ever).
-We are actually seeing some improvements on the pitch in contrary to what we saw under Ole.
-This thread for Ole was created last year. Fans were extremely patient for 2 years ( yes - 2 big years)
Ralf isn't ready for this yet because
-He just started.
-He hasn't had a transfer window yet (he may not have one ever).
-We are actually seeing some improvements on the pitch in contrary to what we saw under Ole.
-This thread for Ole was created last year. Fans were extremely patient for 2 years ( yes - 2 big years)
Now to people losing shit over Brighton game. It was always going to be like this. This is the team that went toe to toe against Liverpool at Anfield and got a draw. Chelsea also lost 2 points against them.
So save some tears for now. March would be the deciding month for us .
So save some tears for now. March would be the deciding month for us .
All this bump tells me is people don't know what patterned passing combinations are. I can't believe anyone is watching us under Rangnick and saying "I see no difference in our passing", No feckin wonder they thought Ole was doing well. Back then I actually thought they were just lying.
Without even going into deep tactical patterns, there is a noticeable difference just on the eye. We have improved in areas under Ralf and if he didn't have a bunch of average joes playing for him, we'd look even better. We have even improved defensively whilst Maguire and Shaw have been shocking.
Damn, Ralf. Maybe Ole should apply for consultancy instead?
I haven't seen a united side coached as badly as......Ole coached them. No way ETH can do any worse. It is impossible.
I haven't seen a united side coached as badly as......Ole coached them. No way ETH can do any worse. It is impossible.
I don't see it honestly. Only saw it like the first 20 minutes of his tenure Deep tactical patterns
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Ralf's situation is untenable really. He doesn't have the dressing room. Most players don't give a damn. And he leaves in a few weeks now. So do most of the players tbh. But yes overall, since being appointed he has had zero impact on our results and hasn't improved our fortunes whatsoever. Failure.