We are an awfully coached team

Tom Cato

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I thought we were all shit at the start of the season due to no pre-season Tom?

I’ll ignore that your post has nothing at all to do with what I posted.
My post comments on your post. If you for some reason want to get all defensive and moderately hostile about it, that's on you.
 

Leftback99

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Bloody ell, it’s crystal clear that certain teams are very drilled in their play, Leipzig, City, Liverpool, Leeds are obvious examples.
United are not drilled in the same way, at all, there’s no fecking debate there.

That said, Real Madrid won the CL 3 times in a row with a none drilled team, so absolutely the more individualistic approach can actually be more successful depending on the quality of those players. Brazil 1970 were sublime, even when you watch highlights today, they weren’t extensively drilled.

This should be a debate about those two contrasting approaches and their merits, not some bullshit denial thread.

I’d say the two best arguments are the following:

• SAF had an incredible team in 2009 which wasn’t heavily drilled, but Pep’s extensively drilled Barca side really did take us the cleaners and are lauded by many as the best side in history.

• Zidane’s individualistic Real Madrid won more CL’s in 3 years than Pep has managed in his entire career.
Not being drilled to play a particular extreme style doesn't equal 'awfully coached' though.

Players are always the key. Liverpool's style is nowhere near as convincing now they have a few injuries. The quality of coaching hasn't changed.
 

ivaldo

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Are people who are anti this thread debating that we are in fact a well coached team or are they just defending Ole the manager for the overall management job he has done since taking over?
An awfully coached team wouldn't be sitting 2nd in the most stacked league in the world, having out scored everyone. No amount of mental gymnastics will change that.
 
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Considering I didn't even disagree with anything you wrote, merely added to it.. your reply is a bit odd.
You added to nothing, Ruben Dias isn’t the reason City are an extensively drilled side is it?

It may be the reason they are doing better than at the start of the season, but you did already tell us all many many times that the top teams including United started poorly due to no pre-season did you not?
 

Josh 76

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What is your point here?

14 of City's goals came in 3 games.

Teams that score a lot of goals have some games where they score more than others. If you were thinking about making a zinger, you missed the mark.
The point I'm making is most of the games I've watched have been very close encounters. The games could have gone either way apart from the 9-0 (Southampton ) which may have been different had we not been playing against 10 men for 90mins and the 6-2 (Leeds).

I've seen nothing in tactics and strategy that excites me for the comming seasons so far. Don't be fooled by our position. We are a couple of games away of being over taken by David Moyes.
 

ivaldo

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You added to nothing, Ruben Dias isn’t the reason City are an extensively drilled side is it?

It may be the reason they are doing better than at the start of the season, but you did already tell us all many many times that the top teams including United started poorly due to no pre-season did you not?
Is that not also true?

We played more games than anyone in Europe since the lockdown last season, while relying on a small, core group of players. Our season then finished as late as any team and we had no preseason. We played 1 preseason friendly against Watford when we played Palace, while they were playing their 7th game.
 
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Is that not also true?

We played more games than anyone in Europe since the lockdown last season, while relying on a small, core group of players. Our season then finished as late as any team and we had no preseason. We played 1 preseason friendly against Watford when we played Palace, while they were playing their 7th game.
It certainly looks true for City and United yes, so I think Tom was bang on.

And I was sceptical.
 

Tom Cato

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The point I'm making is most of the games I've watched have been very close encounters. The games could have gone either way apart from the 9-0 (Southampton ) which may have been different had we not been playing against 10 men for 90mins and the 6-2 (Leeds).

I've seen nothing in tactics and strategy that excites me for the comming seasons so far. Don't be fooled by our position. We are a couple of games away of being over taken by David Moyes.
We're also a couple personal mistakes from still being in the title race. This nonsensical argument goes both ways. We are where we are.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Literally! I've just read back 3 pages and I'm astounded, haven't been on the internet so much recently but didn't realise there was still such an anti-Ole agenda!

Our transformation as a club over the past 2-3 seasons has been incredible. We're 2nd in the league to the most expensively assembled squad of all time, ffs! Bore off, you're not United fans.
Ole has done decent and we are doing better than last year obviously, I won't argue with any of that . However, we were second to the most expensively assembled squad of all time literally 6 months before Ole took over.
 

Tom Cato

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You added to nothing, Ruben Dias isn’t the reason City are an extensively drilled side is it?

It may be the reason they are doing better than at the start of the season, but you did already tell us all many many times that the top teams including United started poorly due to no pre-season did you not?
Every team that started poorly lacked match fitness, that includes us and Manchester City and most of the teams in Europe with the exception of perhaps Bayern.

City has gone from a defense with our quality in 19/20 to a side that is almost impossible to score on with the addition of one Centerback. Did Pep drill them differently from last season? Or is Ruben Dias' individual contribution having a major impact here?
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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I'm not so sure. We've tried big names in LvG and Mourinho not so long ago. Yet the best results and football style have come under Ole.

My take is I'd rather give him time until it's obvious he has nothing to give rather than take risk and try to fix something that seems to be working.
The football style part can may be argued for. I think the main difference from LVG and Jose is the belief Ole has instilled in the team. We do keep winning whilst playing poorly or going down a goal early on.

Results wise however Jose is the clear winner, he got us second with 81 points.
 

cyberman

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The point I'm making is most of the games I've watched have been very close encounters. The games could have gone either way apart from the 9-0 (Southampton ) which may have been different had we not been playing against 10 men for 90mins and the 6-2 (Leeds).

I've seen nothing in tactics and strategy that excites me for the comming seasons so far. Don't be fooled by our position. We are a couple of games away of being over taken by David Moyes.
And City are a few games from getting into a tussle with us. That logic doesnt make sense. We are where we deserve to be.
We are the top goal scorers in the division. Not just a side scoring above their means but top scorers while missing a lot of other chances we should be scoring.
We were told 9-0 was a one off, a mirage. Then we score 11 goals in our next 4 games.
Its kind of tiring to be told everything we do is smoke and mirrors, of course you dont see any progress if thats your mindset.
 
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Every team that started poorly lacked match fitness, that includes us and Manchester City and most of the teams in Europe with the exception of perhaps Bayern.

City has gone from a defense with our quality in 19/20 to a side that is almost impossible to score on with the addition of one Centerback. Did Pep drill them differently from last season? Or is Ruben Dias' individual contribution having a major impact here?
I think playing with no striker is probably a large part of it* Tom, but yes, Dias is clearly a good addition.

* City scored 102 goals last year, on course for just 79 this season.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Every team that started poorly lacked match fitness, that includes us and Manchester City and most of the teams in Europe with the exception of perhaps Bayern.

City has gone from a defense with our quality in 19/20 to a side that is almost impossible to score on with the addition of one Centerback. Did Pep drill them differently from last season? Or is Ruben Dias' individual contribution having a major impact here?
Pep is clearly less dogmatic in his original beliefs now as evidenced by him playing little defensively against us compared to last year. So yia Pep has evolved, Dias might have helped with that but it is mainly Pep.
 
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Pep is clearly less dogmatic in his original beliefs now as evidenced by him playing little defensively against us compared to last year. So yia Pep has evolved, Dias might have helped with that but it is mainly Pep.
He’s been forced to by the loss of Aguero too, a side that scored 102 is always going to be more open than a side that is on course for less than 80.
Playing with no striker is a defensive tactical change.
 

Tom Cato

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Pep is clearly less dogmatic in his original beliefs now as evidenced by him playing little defensively against us compared to last year. So yia Pep has evolved, Dias might have helped with that but it is mainly Pep.
Without checking, didn't Ole and Pep essentially use no subs, or wait until 80+ with using a sub? I remember taking note of that during that game as something odd and unexpected.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Without checking, didn't Ole and Pep essentially use no subs, or wait until 80+ with using a sub? I remember taking note of that during that game as something odd and unexpected.
If you are talking about that famous hugs match, I don't remember about subs but basically both managers were happy with a draw.
 

VivaObertan

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Ole has done decent and we are doing better than last year obviously, I won't argue with any of that . However, we were second to the most expensively assembled squad of all time literally 6 months before Ole took over.
You could also argue that Liverpool at that stage were better than United; Spurs and Chelsea too... (two of those reached a UCL final, the other beat us in the FA Cup final.)

But at the time Ole took over, we were definitely in a worse position than City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs. Right now we're looking better off than 4 of those 5,
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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You could also argue that Liverpool at that stage were better than United; Spurs and Chelsea too... (two of those reached a UCL final, the other beat us in the FA Cup final.)

But at the time Ole took over, we were definitely in a worse position than City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs. Right now we're looking better off than 4 of those 5,
I think Jose sabotaging the team has many people believing we were way worse than what we actually were. But yes even though Liverpool finished below us I agree they were better prepared for future than us as performances are more important indicator of future and they had a cracking last 6 months that Jose second season.
 

cyberman

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Ole has done decent and we are doing better than last year obviously, I won't argue with any of that . However, we were second to the most expensively assembled squad of all time literally 6 months before Ole took over.
6 months is a long time in football and our style of sitting back in low blocks got found out and ruthlessly exploited.
 

Maticmaker

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When you see certain players making the same mistakes, not just bad judgement, but sloppy passing, poor covering, not communicating effectively, then its easy to say they are being 'awfully coached' because these 'rinse and repeat' errors should be able to be removed from a players performance. However it depends on how important the player believes such shortcomings detract from his abilities overall.

Yesterday saw two good examples either way; until he scored his goal, Marcus was doing some of his own ' rinse and repeat' errors; wanting the ball to feet, taking the ball too far, running up 'blind alleys', not laying off to others, etc. Then he scores, by taking the ball to feet , moving the defender, running into more defenders, ignoring his team mates around him, then scoring at the near post from a position where he had no right to score from! So hands up in the air, he broke all the rules and scores!! Why because he knows he can, he may fail three or four times, but the fifth, sixth or seventh one he will succeed.

Later listening to Daniel James post match interview, he explained how he had brought himself back to form and it was mainly, by, "my working with the coaching staff on my weaknesses, a lot of hard work to iron out problems then taking that into games." James recognised his failings as being 'a debilitating problem' for him, so he tries to limit his errors with the help of the coaching staff, so that what he 'can do', he does do well.

Matt Busby's famous line about with players like Law, Best and Charlton, "you throw them the ball and say get on with it, with players like Nobby Stiles you tell them, 'win the ball... then give it to Bobby". Its the United way that Ole often quotes, trust your players to see for themselves, may be nowadays we just don't have those sorts of players, except for Bruno and Rashford???
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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6 months is a long time in football and our style of sitting back in low blocks got found out and ruthlessly exploited.
That is a fair point, last year we were great against the big sides this year we are atrocious, last year we struggled against the smaller sides, this year we have done very well.

But I still think Jose throwing players under the bus and playing players out of position was more the reason of our decline that season.
 

georgipep

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I think playing with no striker is probably a large part of it* Tom, but yes, Dias is clearly a good addition.

* City scored 102 goals last year, on course for just 79 this season.
While tactics chance is a huge deal, there is also the very recent Liverpool example of how adding two top pieces of the defensive puzzle can work miracles. Look how their team was transformed with Alisson and VVD.
 

Ayoba

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We have 70% possession after 86 minutes. Sit down.
Let how silly you are sink in
Well that’s just a giant untruth. We actually dominated the ball. Think it was 70-30. There’s enough to analyse and say we need to do better with without having to make stuff up.
I don't understand these posts, it seems you're very quick to criticise me rather than removing your blinkers and objectively looking at our performance (which I admit as a fan can be difficult sometimes).

There was a period on the 2nd half for about 15 minutes where we couldn't get hold of the ball and newcastle looked threatening, that's when I made this post - it was an accurate reflection of the game and our performance up till that point. The same happened against sheffield U and west brom. We were struggling to retain possession against a relegation team and we have chelsea and city away coming up, so its obviously a point of concern and a discussion point. You may not agree with it, which is fine, but there's no need to criticise me individually!
 

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When you see certain players making the same mistakes, not just bad judgement, but sloppy passing, poor covering, not communicating effectively, then its easy to say they are being 'awfully coached' because these 'rinse and repeat' errors should be able to be removed from a players performance. However it depends on how important the player believes such shortcomings detract from his abilities overall.

Yesterday saw two good examples either way; until he scored his goal, Marcus was doing some of his own ' rinse and repeat' errors; wanting the ball to feet, taking the ball too far, running up 'blind alleys', not laying off to others, etc. Then he scores, by taking the ball to feet , moving the defender, running into more defenders, ignoring his team mates around him, then scoring at the near post from a position where he had no right to score from! So hands up in the air, he broke all the rules and scores!! Why because he knows he can, he may fail three or four times, but the fifth, sixth or seventh one he will succeed.

Later listening to Daniel James post match interview, he explained how he had brought himself back to form and it was mainly, by, "my working with the coaching staff on my weaknesses, a lot of hard work to iron out problems then taking that into games." James recognised his failings as being 'a debilitating problem' for him, so he tries to limit his errors with the help of the coaching staff, so that what he 'can do', he does do well.

Matt Busby's famous line about with players like Law, Best and Charlton, "you throw them the ball and say get on with it, with players like Nobby Stiles you tell them, 'win the ball... then give it to Bobby". Its the United way that Ole often quotes, trust your players to see for themselves, may be nowadays we just don't have those sorts of players, except for Bruno and Rashford???
Exactly, and that is why keep going on about patterns of play. It worked then, because United had Bobby and Best, and teams in general maybe weren't so great tactically. We are spoiled by usually having the best players, and therefore dictate the game. However, that is an obsolete tactic because every team is so tactically drilled, and has so good footballers, that you can't get away with it as often. United still has one of the best squads, but United can get outplayed by Brighton because Brighton is tactically inferior (in that game). It's not a modern tactic, relying on individuals. That's why the best teams (like City and Liverpool) have the best coaches with a clear pattern. I'm not a football star in any sense, but I have been playing fairly high up. I, and I can only talk for myself but it's my general feeling, like it best when I know what my coach wants. When I know how our attacking play is gonna happen, and when I know how we will set up our defense. I have played under managers that do both, under one manager I had no confidence because he was very unclear in how we were going to set up the team. I'm sure he had a vision, but he couldn't implement it. Then I had another manager that was so clear from day one. This is how we are going to do, and this is how it will look. No bullshit. We played simple football, but effectively. I knew what I was going to do before I got the ball, and I knew where my teammates were because we practiced it all the time. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Every training. My picture of United is that Ole is very unclear in what he wants, and therefore makes it more difficult for the players. Some like system and some don't. Is it any wonder that Martial was better with LvG? Then again, Bruno probably prefers his freedom and takes it as it comes. There is a good reason why Pep and Klopp, the most successful managers, is having a clear system. Because it doesn't make them too vulnerable if players drop in form. I remember a Klopp b team winning against Arsenal at Anfield, they had almost no first-teamers. They won because every single player knew exactly what they would do, and they were confident in that. When United rotates, particularly, then you can see that we kind of look lost. That's because of this.
 

georgipep

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I don't understand these posts, it seems you're very quick to criticise me rather than removing your blinkers and objectively looking at our performance (which I admit as a fan can be difficult sometimes).

There was a period on the 2nd half for about 15 minutes where we couldn't get hold of the ball and newcastle looked threatening, that's when I made this post - it was an accurate reflection of the game and our performance up till that point. The same happened against sheffield U and west brom. We were struggling to retain possession against a relegation team and we have chelsea and city away coming up, so its obviously a point of concern and a discussion point. You may not agree with it, which is fine, but there's no need to criticise me individually!
I don't understand how you can claim performance is bad because of a 15 minute period. That's what's silly. Every team has such moment during games. Have you seen the game stats? 72% possession for us, 73% in the first half, 71% in the second half. I don't know about that 15 minute period that you refer to but it sounds to me like you were the one with blinkers on, not seeing this objectively.
 

Flexdegea

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For me, the keep or sack Ole thread was the worst one. So many knee jerkers there who would either argue that Ole is the perfect man for the job who would win us loads of titles or that he’s nothing more than a Championship manager. Absolutely no in between to the point where when someone made a constructive post, it would be applauded as it was an exception.

In my view, he’s doing a decent job at the moment as we are on course for 77 points, 11 more than last season. If we get something like that, come 2nd or 3rd and win a trophy, then I’d be glad for Ole to stay one more year to fight for a title and a new contract. Quality and style of football isn’t a concern for me, which I’m happy to say as it has been from Moyes to Mourinho’s years. We’re top scorers and play good stuff a lot
of the time.

Tbf though, I think you are doing Potter a disservice. If he had better strikers, Brighton would be 7th now based on XG. I’m actually one of those who think Potter could make the step up to a big club and while he wouldn’t outperform Ole as that would mean fighting neck and neck with City, he wouldn’t be doing a much worse job than Ole. Might even equal him. Brighton, with one of the lowest budgets in the league, have been excellent all season and really ought to have comprehensively beat us and Chelsea, and beat Pool with ease at Anfield. He needs better players, but that’s for the Brighton thread.

Here I actually rate Potter. His coaching for a English is very modern like Rodgers style.


My point is, lot of people claiming this manager and that one can get same results are taking into the context the state we were in when Ole came in and he's totally transformed the mentality of the squad in my opinion. Not to say if potter was here now he couldnt do the same thing as Ole right now as the squad rebuild is night and day compared to when he came in, but seems silly thinking all these other managers could have came in over 2 years ago and had the same impact at that time. It was a massive job.

We've already had proven managers attempt it before Ole and they left us in dire states.

I just think it's cheap shots at the manager and not grounded in reality when some certain posters come in and claim such and such can do the same job like Ole holding us back. Was even someone claiming Moyes could match it too........totally forgotting he had a title winning team breaking records weekly and languishing down at 7th in the league :lol:
 

Leroy The Red

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I don't understand these posts, it seems you're very quick to criticise me rather than removing your blinkers and objectively looking at our performance (which I admit as a fan can be difficult sometimes).

There was a period on the 2nd half for about 15 minutes where we couldn't get hold of the ball and newcastle looked threatening, that's when I made this post - it was an accurate reflection of the game and our performance up till that point. The same happened against sheffield U and west brom. We were struggling to retain possession against a relegation team and we have chelsea and city away coming up, so its obviously a point of concern and a discussion point. You may not agree with it, which is fine, but there's no need to criticise me individually!
Haha..

This is what I said about our performance .


Thank feck for that. Underserved completely but we’ll take it.
Dunno what game you’re watching to be honest, we’ve been so so so bad.
Imagine not being able to deal with a Newcastle United press.
Maybe there was a wider context to your post. But I can’t guess that, I took it for what it was.
Trust me I don’t like the football we play but to me it looked like you were making things up about how much of the ball we had.
 

Leroy The Red

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Tbh any armchair fan can assess the end product. That much doesn't need qualifications. Like you don't need coaching badges to know a guy like Pep has his teams playing different from the average team. What needs coaching badges is designing such a system. The patterns of play people struggle to explain imo just refers to synchronized passing and movements and how teams execute complex moves without breaking the rhythm of their attack E.g You know the give and go or the 1-2? The most basic play in all of sports. That's a singular pattern of play in its most basic form. Advanced coaching will exhibit itself in how teams blend all of the above but on a teamwide scale
Bloody ell, it’s crystal clear that certain teams are very drilled in their play, Leipzig, City, Liverpool, Leeds are obvious examples.
United are not drilled in the same way, at all, there’s no fecking debate there.

That said, Real Madrid won the CL 3 times in a row with a none drilled team, so absolutely the more individualistic approach can actually be more successful depending on the quality of those players. Brazil 1970 were sublime, even when you watch highlights today, they weren’t extensively drilled.

This should be a debate about those two contrasting approaches and their merits, not some bullshit denial thread.

I’d say the two best arguments are the following:

• SAF had an incredible team in 2009 which wasn’t heavily drilled, but Pep’s extensively drilled Barca side really did take us the cleaners and are lauded by many as the best side in history.

• Zidane’s individualistic Real Madrid won more CL’s in 3 years than Pep has managed in his entire career.
Good posts but it’s futile. At this point in this thread I feel you’re addressing people who just don’t want to understand or may be incapable of understanding. They’ll still come up with their sarcy comments about ‘patterns of play’. They’ll still tell you those counter attacking goals we scored are proof of a fantastically drilled team. They’ll still go on about the goals for column or Rashford and Luke Shaw playing a one two.

Results are the end game and there’s no doubting that but too many on here cannot seem to grasp the fact a lot of people who watch football and happen to be United fans have a burning desire to see their team play an entertaining and convincing brand of football and it’s not happened at United for almost a decade.
A lot of this back and forth on here is as a result of this lack of understanding.
 

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Good posts but it’s futile. At this point in this thread I feel you’re addressing people who just don’t want to understand or may be incapable of understanding. They’ll still come up with their sarcy comments about ‘patterns of play’. They’ll still tell you those counter attacking goals we scored are proof of a fantastically drilled team. They’ll still go on about the goals for column or Rashford and Luke Shaw playing a one two.

Results are the end game and there’s no doubting that but too many on here cannot seem to grasp the fact a lot of people who watch football and happen to be United fans have a burning desire to see their team play an entertaining and convincing brand of football and it’s not happened at United for almost a decade.
A lot of this back and forth on here is as a result of this lack of understanding.
Nobody will tell you that, but keep on attacking that strawman. There's a lack of understanding, at it goes both ways. Your post is a prime example of that, and it's baffling that you even managed to type it out without realising the irony of it.
 

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The one thing I don’t get is the persistence with playing out from the back like we do. Our back four is very poor in close areas and don’t play well against a high-press. So many times we lost the ball in our defensive third I just end up yelling at the TV.
This does wind me up to be fair. We see it every game, and I'm yet to see even a slight improvement at it. I don't know why we're keeping it up, it's just a hazard.
 

Leroy The Red

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Nobody will tell you that, but keep on attacking that strawman. There's a lack of understanding, at it goes both ways. Your post is a prime example of that, and it's baffling that you even managed to type it out without realising the irony of it.
There’s countless examples of it. Just search up the term ‘patterns of play’. It’s now used as a sarcastic quip to make out that people are too dumb to be able to watch United games and process what goes on during it. The two people I quoted responded to this post.

My issue with this thread is that no one really knows whether our coaching is good or bad (myself included). It's just people saying stuff like 'patterns of play' when I'm pretty confident most could not give a decent explanation of what succesful 'pattern of play' any PL team was showing this weekend.
It’s not a straw man at all...

And no, I don’t think there is a lack of understanding from both sides with this specific argument. It’s heavily with one side. I’ve seen people in here repeatedly say they’re happy with everything else but want to see better football only to be greeted by snobby posts see above.

A few days back I said something about if our football was easy on the eye, it would get more recognition outside the club, more pundits would speak about it and not just throw us back handed compliments about counter attacking and the person kept responding with “no that’s not true”.
 

RUCK4444

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There’s countless examples of it. Just search up the term ‘patterns of play’. It’s now used as a sarcastic quip to make out that people are too dumb to be able to watch United games and process what goes on during it. The two people I quoted responded to this post.


It’s not a straw man at all...

And no, I don’t think there is a lack of understanding from both sides with this specific argument. It’s heavily with one side. I’ve seen people in here repeatedly say they’re happy with everything else but want to see better football only to be greeted by snobby posts see above.

A few days back I said something about if our football was easy on the eye, it would get more recognition outside the club, more pundits would speak about it and not just throw us back handed compliments about counter attacking and the person kept responding with “no that’s not true”.
Nonsense. Pure turd sorry.

2nd in the league and most goals of any team. Talk is talk, points and goals speak louder than your negativity.

What would you prefer? That we score less? Play like prime Barcelona?

We are ahead of where our expectations were after the shocking window from Ed and Glazers. On top of being top scorers in the league we also miss a shite tonne of chances, there are literally video compilations of all our misses.

We create and score more than any team.

Talk about consistency and mentality if you want to pick holes in our season.
 

Olecurls99

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Exactly, and that is why keep going on about patterns of play. It worked then, because United had Bobby and Best, and teams in general maybe weren't so great tactically. We are spoiled by usually having the best players, and therefore dictate the game. However, that is an obsolete tactic because every team is so tactically drilled, and has so good footballers, that you can't get away with it as often. United still has one of the best squads, but United can get outplayed by Brighton because Brighton is tactically inferior (in that game). It's not a modern tactic, relying on individuals. That's why the best teams (like City and Liverpool) have the best coaches with a clear pattern. I'm not a football star in any sense, but I have been playing fairly high up. I, and I can only talk for myself but it's my general feeling, like it best when I know what my coach wants. When I know how our attacking play is gonna happen, and when I know how we will set up our defense. I have played under managers that do both, under one manager I had no confidence because he was very unclear in how we were going to set up the team. I'm sure he had a vision, but he couldn't implement it. Then I had another manager that was so clear from day one. This is how we are going to do, and this is how it will look. No bullshit. We played simple football, but effectively. I knew what I was going to do before I got the ball, and I knew where my teammates were because we practiced it all the time. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Every training. My picture of United is that Ole is very unclear in what he wants, and therefore makes it more difficult for the players. Some like system and some don't. Is it any wonder that Martial was better with LvG? Then again, Bruno probably prefers his freedom and takes it as it comes. There is a good reason why Pep and Klopp, the most successful managers, is having a clear system. Because it doesn't make them too vulnerable if players drop in form. I remember a Klopp b team winning against Arsenal at Anfield, they had almost no first-teamers. They won because every single player knew exactly what they would do, and they were confident in that. When United rotates, particularly, then you can see that we kind of look lost. That's because of this.
What's happening with Klopp's great system now? Systems and patterns of play can't compete with talented footballers who are in form. The system is saying no for Jurgen.
His and Peps teams are far more about great players playing well than about any perceived system. We don't have the best squad and we're not gonna win until we do. Only Fergie won things with lesser squads.
 

Leroy The Red

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Jul 27, 2009
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Nonsense. Pure turd sorry.

2nd in the league and most goals of any team. Talk is talk, points and goals speak louder than your negativity.

What would you prefer? That we score less? Play like prime Barcelona?

We are ahead of where our expectations were after the shocking window from Ed and Glazers. On top of being top scorers in the league we also miss a shite tonne of chances, there are literally video compilations of all our misses.

We create and score more than any team.

Talk about consistency and mentality if you want to pick holes in our season.
Thanks for emphatically proving my point.