We will never win the league with Bruno Fernandes in the team...

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mu4c_20le

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Most ridiculous thread in recent history of this forum. Everybody played badly yesterday and so did Bruno but to single him out as the reason we won't win something. Come the feck on
Used to be because AWB couldn't play, or ddg couldn't sweep, or mcfred, or Ronaldo couldn't run.

He's just the flavor of the month
 

Marwood

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City already have a title winning team. We are trying to build one, and we will not do that with Bruno in it. And we don't need to stop at the title, the same applies to the CL. The main point is, we will never be a team good enough to compete for major trophies. Liverpool coming second by a point or goal difference is obviously not what we are. They are/have been good enough to win the league or Champions League whether they actually go and win it or not. Just as City have been good enough to win both for 5 years, despite not always winning. Both Liverpool and City have had 'title winning teams' despite the fact that they can't both win it. If you like, 'we will never have a team capable of winning the title with Bruno', to avoid pedantry.
It's not pedantry. You're not just saying he's preventing the current bunch from winning a league, you're saying no matter how good a team we assemble, Bruno will always stop us. Which clearly, is over the top.
 

Borys

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This is not a surprise, he is extremely inflexible player, what means you have to adjust the team around him. In the grand scheme of things, I think we should move away from him as a focal point because it will hinder our progress.

The difference is now we have players to build a team without Bruno.

I can see why ETH decided to stick to this setup but this is not a way forward.
 

NewGlory

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Used to be because AWB couldn't play, or ddg couldn't sweep, or mcfred, or Ronaldo couldn't run.

He's just the flavor of the month
Yeah, the big difference is - Bruno has never been the weakest link under any of our managers and in any team we've had since he joined. He has always been the undisputed starter. He may be the only player you can say that about in our squad, too. He is definitely not perfect and not without his faults, but of all the players we have, to say Bruno is the reason... wow
 

JPRouve

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If we played 4411 with more orthodox wide men he could work quite well as the midfield would be more solid. Another option would be as a false 9 but that would probably mean dropping Sancho and playing Rashford left and Anthony right. Bruno hasn't shown much ability as a false 9 yet but with pacey wide men either side it could work.
That or in a 4312 as the attacking midfielder.
 

Greck

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We don't need the semantic battle. We all know the statement envisions Bruno as the main cog or one of them. Pretty much imagine that the more important or relied on said cog is the less likely to win.
 

Rozay

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It's not pedantry. You're not just saying he's preventing the current bunch from winning a league, you're saying no matter how good a team we assemble, Bruno will always stop us. Which clearly, is over the top.
It is pedantry.

I'm saying that he fundamentally detracts from a team's ability to play top level football. My statement is based upon an assumptions of leagues being competitive with more than one challenger. Therefore, the team that does win it needs to be at their best. If you want to move posts to some sort of 'would Bayern Munich be able to win the league with Bruno' argument - a scenario where one team is so much more dominant than the rest, then suit yourself. Perhaps you have even scored a point over me. I'm sure if, for some strange reason, all the other top PL teams decided to post 25 points less than normal in a season, and then we assembled a team with Mbappe, Tchouameni and the like - and Bruno - that we could even win the Premier League. However, just as I am confident that Liverpool could not have won the PL with Karius in goal or Lovren in defence - we can't win it with Bruno, because, simply, he will prevent us from being as good as we can if we went a different way. In whatever alternate universe you prefer to focus on, where we can win the league at 80% or whatever then yes - my statement is incorrect.

When this thread was made about Pogba, a multiple title winner and World Cup winner - it wasn't because he was a one-legged man or scored 20 own goals a season either. In fact, we had just come second in the league. The point was, having the areas in which he was weak within a top team would always be too much of a fundamental hindrance. In his case, you just cannot win the league without a certain level of defensive effort. Unless of course, everyone else gets 2 red cards a game and we signed every great player in the world. Then maybe. In Bruno's case, I am saying you cannot win it if you cannot keep the ball to a certain level, and with Bruno in the team, we will not be able to keep the ball to that level. That's it. And so far I'm factually right anyway, which in itself takes away any ridiculousness factor from the statement at least.
 

Pickle85

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It is pedantry.

I'm saying that he fundamentally detracts from a team's ability to play top level football. My statement is based upon an assumptions of leagues being competitive with more than one challenger. Therefore, the team that does win it needs to be at their best. If you want to move posts to some sort of 'would Bayern Munich be able to win the league with Bruno' argument - a scenario where one team is so much more dominant than the rest, then suit yourself. Perhaps you have even scored a point over me. I'm sure if, for some strange reason, all the other top PL teams decided to post 25 points less than normal in a season, and then we assembled a team with Mbappe, Tchouameni and the like - and Bruno - that we could even win the Premier League. However, just as I am confident that Liverpool could not have won the PL with Karius in goal or Lovren in defence - we can't win it with Bruno, because, simply, he will prevent us from being as good as we can if we went a different way. In whatever alternate universe you prefer to focus on, where we can win the league at 80% or whatever then yes - my statement is incorrect.

When this thread was made about Pogba, a multiple title winner and World Cup winner - it wasn't because he was a one-legged man or scored 20 own goals a season either. In fact, we had just come second in the league. The point was, having the areas in which he was weak within a top team would always be too much of a fundamental hindrance. In his case, you just cannot win the league without a certain level of defensive effort. Unless of course, everyone else gets 2 red cards a game and we signed every great player in the world. Then maybe. In Bruno's case, I am saying you cannot win it if you cannot keep the ball to a certain level, and with Bruno in the team, we will not be able to keep the ball to that level. That's it. And so far I'm factually right anyway, which in itself takes away any ridiculousness factor from the statement at least.
So are you saying that he's a lost cause and that, regardless of coaching, he'll never be able to change his game to a point where he irons out the creases sufficiently?
 

FriedClams

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I don’t recall even an 8/10 performance from him in a big game. Great players play well against the big teams, regularly.
 

TMDaines

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So are you saying that he's a lost cause and that, regardless of coaching, he'll never be able to change his game to a point where he irons out the creases sufficiently?
If he feels the same way I do, I imagine he feels that Bruno is someone that will need to be replaced in our starting XI in order for our team to compete for the title and consistently challenge for trophies.

Bruno's 28 now. I don't really see him changing for the better from here.
 

kouroux

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Winning the league is such a high bar that naming Bruno isn't necessary. You could make this thread for any other player in the world given the reigns of this team.

However I agree with the idea of the OP, Bruno is way too erratic of a player to be our main guy and captain, he isn't good enough nor consistent enough to guide us in the most challenging situations but rather he sinks to the same low level as everyone.
 

Rozay

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So are you saying that he's a lost cause and that, regardless of coaching, he'll never be able to change his game to a point where he irons out the creases sufficiently?
Yes.

Being coached to pass and move, dribble, turn, carry the ball happens at 8 years old, not 28. I'm not one of the people who simply says 'Bruno just needs to be told to not play so risky'. You reserve that for players like Neymar, who has all the actual ability in the world, but may need to make better choices. With Bruno, my view is that he is simply not good enough at these things. The way he plays is the only way he can play and still impact games at a high level. A 'simpler' Bruno would just quickly be exposed as a player who needs to drop down a level. Bernardo Silva can get away with scoring 8 goals and posting 8 assists in a season. Bruno simply cannot. So yes, he can 'change his game', but that version of Bruno would not be good enough IMO. He's not capable of being a world class midfielder who keeps it short and is heavily involved in midfield play on the ball.

Players need to be coached how to apply their abilities. I don't think the tools are there with Bruno. Physically or technically.
 

Skills

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That or in a 4312 as the attacking midfielder.
Isn't that just saying 4-3-3 as a false 9?

Maybe going off topic, but I find the narrow formations only really exist on paper and generally morph into one of the other more conventional formations (i.e. 4-3-3 with a false 9) or a 3-5-2 on the pitch.
 

JPRouve

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Isn't that just saying 4-3-3 as a false 9?

Maybe going off topic, but I find the narrow formations only really exist on paper and generally morph into one of the other more conventional formations (i.e. 4-3-3 with a false 9) or a 3-5-2 on the pitch.
No. I'm talking about an 4312 with actual strikers and an actual attacking midfielder behind them. Otherwise I would have said a 433 with a false nine.
 

Marwood

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It is pedantry.

I'm saying that he fundamentally detracts from a team's ability to play top level football. My statement is based upon an assumptions of leagues being competitive with more than one challenger. Therefore, the team that does win it needs to be at their best. If you want to move posts to some sort of 'would Bayern Munich be able to win the league with Bruno' argument - a scenario where one team is so much more dominant than the rest, then suit yourself. Perhaps you have even scored a point over me. I'm sure if, for some strange reason, all the other top PL teams decided to post 25 points less than normal in a season, and then we assembled a team with Mbappe, Tchouameni and the like - and Bruno - that we could even win the Premier League. However, just as I am confident that Liverpool could not have won the PL with Karius in goal or Lovren in defence - we can't win it with Bruno, because, simply, he will prevent us from being as good as we can if we went a different way. In whatever alternate universe you prefer to focus on, where we can win the league at 80% or whatever then yes - my statement is incorrect.

When this thread was made about Pogba, a multiple title winner and World Cup winner - it wasn't because he was a one-legged man or scored 20 own goals a season either. In fact, we had just come second in the league. The point was, having the areas in which he was weak within a top team would always be too much of a fundamental hindrance. In his case, you just cannot win the league without a certain level of defensive effort. Unless of course, everyone else gets 2 red cards a game and we signed every great player in the world. Then maybe. In Bruno's case, I am saying you cannot win it if you cannot keep the ball to a certain level, and with Bruno in the team, we will not be able to keep the ball to that level. That's it. And so far I'm factually right anyway, which in itself takes away any ridiculousness factor from the statement at least.
Its a strange thing to conclude you're correct because yes Bruno plays for us and we haven't won the league.

I could say the same thing about every other player in the squad, every manager we've bad post Fergie, every member of backroom staff. So how much value is there in this kind of statement. It's meaningless.

I haven't mentioned Bayern Munich, no goal posts shifted there.

Simply asked if you put Bruno into a very good team would he single handedly stop them winning the league. I've used City as they're likely to win the league this year. I could ask the same about the Liverpool team that won the league. Would he stop them.

Of all the players we have to say Bruno is the biggest culprit is miles off.

This definitely is a Pogba fan having one final dig.
 

fezzerUTD

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Not a fan of him, ghosts big games and his antics are cringy. Yet he’s here for rest of his career. Gutting.
 

Rozay

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Its a strange thing to conclude you're correct because yes Bruno plays for us and we haven't won the league.

I could say the same thing about every other player in the squad, every manager we've bad post Fergie, every member of backroom staff. So how much value is there in this kind of statement. It's meaningless.

I haven't mentioned Bayern Munich, no goal posts shifted there.

Simply asked if you put Bruno into a very good team would he single handedly stop them winning the league. I've used City as they're likely to win the league this year. I could ask the same about the Liverpool team that won the league. Would he stop them.

Of all the players we have to say Bruno is the biggest culprit is miles off.

This definitely is a Pogba fan having one final dig.
Okay.
 

Marwood

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I don’t recall even an 8/10 performance from him in a big game. Great players play well against the big teams, regularly.
The Arsenal game?

Put in an incredbile shift, crazy good assist, should have had another.
 

Smithy89

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Hindsight is wonderful but Casemiro should have started over Eriksen or Bruno.
 

DWelbz19

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Wholeheartedly agree with the OP. It's just a shame we gave him a brand spanking new contract and we're 'stuck' with him for the foreseeable.
 

bosskeano

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the simple issue I have with bruno is his lack of positional discipline especially defensively....he's constantly trying to press in situations that don't allow it and he leaves the middle creating a 3v2 situation against us

if you're to press like Bruno does, then honestly you have to almost mirror the pressing style of City with KdB...the mids have to push higher and the two CB's have to pick up the additional deep playmaking midfielder
 

Skills

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No. I'm talking about an 4312 with actual strikers and an actual attacking midfielder behind them. Otherwise I would have said a 433 with a false nine.
I know, but what I'm saying is - can that sort of system really exist? I'm being a bit facetious I guess - it's based on this old video of Cruyff

 

Scandi Red

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Who is this weeks scapegoat... *spins the wheel*.. Bruno you're up!
I thought this thread was weird too. Is finding a new scapegoat after every loss a common theme in here?

Apart from De Bryune, is there any other attacking midfielder in top football who is as productive as Bruno? I can't think of any. He also works very hard and covers a lot of ground, so you can't fault him for that either. He does squander possession a lot with his risky passes, but it's the same passes that leads to his productivity so I think that it's a fair trade-off.

Maybe we wont win the league while Bruno plays for us, but that's hardly his fault.
 

DWelbz19

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This is not a surprise, he is extremely inflexible player, what means you have to adjust the team around him. In the grand scheme of things, I think we should move away from him as a focal point because it will hinder our progress.

The difference is now we have players to build a team without Bruno.

I can see why ETH decided to stick to this setup but this is not a way forward.
Inflexibility is the biggest point there. He can only play in one position, and I don't think he offers enough for us to be the only major side to set up in a very rigid 4231 because he cannot play elsewhere.
 

Zippycup

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He was once undropable but that's no longer the case.
It is a worry how he rarely turns up these days but more so how he never turns up for the big games
 

Dannn411

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I've always said that control of midfield is more important than anything. Teams that control midfield are much more likely to win games than teams that do not. The only way forward for us as a team is with three central midfielders because we do not have the talent to play two in midfield. Even in the games we have won we have looked so vulnerable playing Eriksen and Mctominay and have been winning games by the skin of our teeth.
Bruno has not done anything for 18 plus months to justify him being undroppable in this team. He is killing us in midfield and is offering absolutely nothing going forward. So let him compete with the other forwards for one of the 3 forward spots and take his CAM spot away and give it to a central midfielder that will help us in the midfield battle. We cannot continue like this in midfield. We are going to keep getting dominated in that area of the pitch.
 

UnofficialDevil

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Agree. We were perfectly fine, if not better, for that spell when he was inured and missing under Ole. For some stupid reason he is never dropped never even subbed. He is on a bizarre wage, and taking up a position that fits Erikson perfectly. Honestly, I would play Lingard over Bruno as a 10.
 

Physiocrat

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Isn't that just saying 4-3-3 as a false 9?
Essentially yes, if the strikers go wide out of possession and Bruno goes up top. Another option out of possession though in a 4312 is for the wide midfielders to go to wide out to LM and RM and the 1 to move to CM.
 

mu4c_20le

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Agree. We were perfectly fine, if not better, for that spell when he was inured and missing under Ole. For some stupid reason he is never dropped never even subbed. He is on a bizarre wage, and taking up a position that fits Erikson perfectly. Honestly, I would play Lingard over Bruno as a 10.
When was this? The guy is never injured.
 

JPRouve

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Essentially yes, if the strikers go wide out of possession and Bruno goes up top. Another option out of possession though in a 4312 is for the wide midfielders to go to wide out to LM and RM and the 1 to move to CM.
No in 4312, I'm talking about an actual AM like in the 90s, not a false nine. Bruno is terrible as a false nine. Now in that kind of systems you essentially defends in 442 with the AM moving to the opposite side of the ball and the midfield three slides to the side of the ball.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Well Bruno is 28 and we don't look like winning the league in the next 4-5 years so technically the OP may be correct.

Its feck to do with Bruno though.
 

Silas

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Anyone arguing over semantics is missing the point of the thread completely. Having someone like Bruno as the fulcrum of the attack can only get you so far and we’ve seen it time and time again against top opposition. Feel like most of the caf was on the same page that the contract extension made no sense, especially considering his form at the time, but here we are.

Although he came in and was amazing initially, his signing realistically didn’t make much sense either when we had finally found some good balance with Pogba as the most advanced midfielder and Herrera and Matic behind. Signing someone like Thiago/De Jong (stylistically) and a Matic replacement seemed like the obvious next moves at the time, but it wasn’t to be.
 
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