Oh yes we have coped very well. To be top of the league despite missing the players we have and the Rooney controversy and our strangely poor performances is extraordinary. The league is there for the taking if we can step up a few gears and get our midfield working again.
We're not watching SAF's classical playing style.
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I've wondered about this as well. And I think it's a good explanation for the thing's we're seeing re the OP. But who knows.
I said pretty much the same thing in the matchday thread yesterday and got ripped to pieces for it.
I will once again reiterate, our playing style has most definitely changed and for the worst this season.
I cannot, in over 20 years of supporting the club, remember a more boring approach to football from the team.
The players need a kick up the fecking arse. We don't seem to come to life until the 85 minute Mark.
I will once again reiterate, our playing style has most definitely changed and for the worst this season.
I cannot, in over 20 years of supporting the club, remember a more boring approach to football from the team.
The players need a kick up the fecking arse. We don't seem to come to life until the 85 minute Mark.
No creative force from midfield that can drive attacks forward plain and simple. Our playing style changed instantly since Ronaldo left/ Think of the ECL Semi second leg against Arsenal and look at us now.
just too many players off form at the same time it seems. We may be joint top but this has been the most frustrating season for me in a long while.
..and we seem to play better, the second half of the season 'normally' because we have a stronger squad than most.
..and we seem to play better, the second half of the season 'normally' because we have a stronger squad than most.
I must say I agree. Our build up play and movement is so slow and labored. Its easy for the teams to get men behind the ball. Its worked a treat for us in Europe but against teams in the PL at home I wish we'd go for the jugular. Then we inevitably concede a goal and suddenly a switch turns on and we go for attack again.
We have been pretty poor this season because Rooney who seemed to have replaced Ronaldo last season has been rubbish this season so far.
Pathetic football - Decent results.
Go figure.
Go figure.
Saying that I think some of the younger players we brought in like Hernandez, Obertan and Bebe are fecking whippets and with the right development and alongside a more mature Nani would skin many teams on the counter attack.
fixed
The problem is in midfield.
We have a solid midfield in the likes of Carrick, Park, Fletcher, but lacking in something special. We do need a creative player in the midfield, someone who stands out head and shoulders above the rest. A player who is the first person on the teamsheet.
That sounds very muppet like, but I think it is what we need. Carrick, though I have always been a fan, has evolved into someone you want as a squad player, but should not start for United in every game. I have taken a long time to decide that, cause he still has those great games. But he does it too seldom, IMO.
We have a solid midfield in the likes of Carrick, Park, Fletcher, but lacking in something special. We do need a creative player in the midfield, someone who stands out head and shoulders above the rest. A player who is the first person on the teamsheet.
That sounds very muppet like, but I think it is what we need. Carrick, though I have always been a fan, has evolved into someone you want as a squad player, but should not start for United in every game. I have taken a long time to decide that, cause he still has those great games. But he does it too seldom, IMO.
how has our playing style changed then?
I disagree that a playing style has changed - we are still trying to play good passing football and break with pace when we have the opportunity - not sure if you remember but VDS throw to Nani and Hernandez almost scoring springs to mind - or Rooney vs Arsenal last season
the difference this year is definately the quality of the players at the club coupled with the injuries to valencia, giggs and rooney
our passing in some games has been abysmal, we have been dominated for long periods by every team we've played away (apart from city and bursaspor), wigan dominated us at home yesterday for periods of the first half
there are several issues which will need resolved in the summer
- carrick - after a few games where he was decent he has been shite again and almost non-existant in games - his influence is poor
- hargreaves and anderson - big question marks over injuries - felt anderson had to start showing some signs but not even sure where he is...
-park - great worker and good squad player but creativity once in a while
-nani - hopefully he can become a bit more consistant
-berbatov - after a bright start is now the player he was the last two seasons
-gibson - is he united quality?
at a club like United we shouldnt have to rely on older players like scholes/giggs or younger ones either
they should be used as squad players to support the first team - the problem is our first team, particularly in midfield isn't good enough - plain and simple
looking at arsenal's football yesterday with players like arshavin, fabregas and nasri linking up you can't help be jealous
I think its a mixture of players like hernandez, obertan, macheda still in the process of developing an understanding with the others as well as a bit of of a lack of creativity and flair. Were too reliant on nani to create something for us. The guy who makes our midfield look good is 35. I think we will be a team with more grit than class this season. But that's not to say we won't get better than we are right now as the season wears on. We will.
We're missing a central player that dares to run at the opposition and take them on/Giggs (and Anderson)
Carrick is either developing into a different player and becoming more cautious as he ages, or has lost confidence in his once fantastic passing range.
With Carrick, I think its a matter of 2 things; his lack of confidence at the moment, and the lack of an influential midfielder beside him.
I've always maintained that Carrick at his peak was when there was Paul Scholes beside him to take control of the midfield and dictate our play, leaving Carrick to do his own thing in his own quiet way.
Now that Scholes is playing less, Carrick has the responsibility of being our playmaker; the player who will dictate our tempo and play and he doesn't seem like he's able to do it. He's basically shying away from responsibility. He's not a leader or a playmaker, he needs someone beside him to do all that for him while he quietly does his own thing.
I've always maintained that Carrick at his peak was when there was Paul Scholes beside him to take control of the midfield and dictate our play, leaving Carrick to do his own thing in his own quiet way.
Now that Scholes is playing less, Carrick has the responsibility of being our playmaker; the player who will dictate our tempo and play and he doesn't seem like he's able to do it. He's basically shying away from responsibility. He's not a leader or a playmaker, he needs someone beside him to do all that for him while he quietly does his own thing.
Spot on. Yesterday there was a moment about an hour in when we broke out and the crowd really roared. I noticed it because it hadn't happened all game.
Evra on MUTV
My thoughts exactly Patrice.
i'm surprised ( but delighted of course ) at our position, our football has been - and i hate to say this - decidedly pedestrian
Which is what exactly? Act as a sieve rather than shield in protecting our defence? Or being Scholes-lite?
You make it sound like he needs someone to hold his hand to make a contribution.
He needs a midfield partner that suits his game. As do all central midfielders.
Hardly needing his hand held...
Hardly needing his hand held...
That's the right word. Yesterday, and other games, that is exactly what we've been. Being off form and such is alright, although also annoying, but at times this season we have seemed determined to stroll lazily through the games. Luckily it has worked more often than not, but it is an odd sight. I miss Valencia.
Any player worth his salt should be able to perform for a large portion of games rather than going AWOL for 18 months as Carrick has done, regardless of who he's played/playing alongside.
Carrick of 2006-2009 was a fine player whether it be with Scholes, Hargreaves, Anderson, Fletcher or whoever. The modern day Carrick is a waste of space who's playing like one floppy cock.
Because he wasn't all that. I'm not sure Fergie could stomach such an ill disciplined player. We need a CM like Ozil, Fabergas or Sneijder not a VDV type.
at the risk of sounding petty, he'd have fit right in then .....
( I can't believe I even think that about our current midfield )
. Couldn't agree with the bolded part more.
The one thing that worried me yesterday was that we played against 9 men for 35 mins and we only looked like scoring for around 7-10 mins of that. Right at the end we played more like United with Scholes bringing wingers into play and Rafael and Nani putting in great crosses.
Until the 80-85th min or so we rarely looked like scoring. Wigan, at OT, were far more threatening than we were in the first half
Anyway I think we need to stop playing 1 striker vs bottom half teams at home. It can't really help our performances when we play Berba or Kiko alone up front, neither of whom are suited for that particular role.
Until the 80-85th min or so we rarely looked like scoring. Wigan, at OT, were far more threatening than we were in the first half
Anyway I think we need to stop playing 1 striker vs bottom half teams at home. It can't really help our performances when we play Berba or Kiko alone up front, neither of whom are suited for that particular role.
Jesus, a little negative there.
On current form, United don't have good enough players to play flashy football, however are defense and GK are healthy so if we want to actually compete for the League or the CL we will have to play reserved and hold onto the ball to win matches 1-0. I wish we could play better and I have no doubt we will once Rooney hits form, but let's be honest the squad is full of overpaid, underperforming players and that is not going to change anytime soon, that is why there does need to be a summer clearout. These players that will be sold, arent Shit players by any means, but they either arent good enough or arent performing well enough to deserve to wear the shirt.
Good post mate.
Aye, and that's crucial. Scholes has started something like two of our last ten games. We're a different beast when he is pulling the strings. What a marvellous player he still is, at the age of 60. Best midfielder in the league.
This is true, but it's also a massive worry. We are so reliant on him to pull the strings and probe for the defence splitting ball, it's actually quite pathetic.
He's a 36 year old and yet he's still essential to our fluidity and potential to break stubborn opposition down. As good as he is and has been, it's a sad reflection of where our other CM's are at right now.
By the way, you're last sentence isn't the case. 7 years ago maybe, not now. He's more vulnerable to being harrassed out of a game than ever before, Liverpool, Fulham, and Chelsea to name but a few have shown what pressing him and denying space can do to his influence on a game, which then pretty much shuts us down aswell.
Park's been more involved than anyone in our best counter-attacks (or simply counter-attack goals) over the past 3 years or so. The games against Arsenal are hailed as great display's of counter-attacking and Park is involved in so many of the goals.
Apparently Diego Maradona, Pele and Zidane never had a bad spell in their carrers.
Wow, just wow.For a start, they were class, and class is permanent. Carrick is far from class. I also don't recall any of them turning into a wrecked, waste of space for 18 months like Carrick has.
someones really gunning for that TROTY title.