We've had two different managers but same faults. (LVG and Mourinho)

Adisa

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On the face of it, it's difficult to say Mourinho and LVG are similar but Imo the consequences of both ideologies lead to similar problems with the team.
Both managers are very risk averse in that their entire philosophy evolves around reducing mistakes to a bare minimum.
LVG'S idea of reducing mistakes involved around extreme ball circulation with players staying in their positions. While Mourinho's has an extreme fear of his team getting caught out of position or being disorganised.
The result are a team that is frightened of making mistakes and players not moving the ball quickly enough.
I cannot accept that this team doesn't have enough talent to taught to play at a higher tempo. It's simply not possible.
 

Revaulx

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Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.
 

Skills

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Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.
I've felt like this for a while. It's uncanny how much he reminds me of Moyes - self centered, defensive about himself, even their approach to football is quite similar - stay compact, get it out wide and punt it in. Pretty sure Mourinho matched or beat Moyes 80 cross game against Fulham this season - the game Moyes was mocked for.

Anyways, I don't think we play any better football than Van Gaal. I said this last season - there's just much better players on the pitch who can do more.
 

gajender

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On the face of it, it's difficult to say Mourinho and LVG are similar but Imo the consequences of both ideologies lead to similar problems with the team.
Both managers are very risk averse in that their entire philosophy evolves around reducing mistakes to a bare minimum.
LVG'S idea of reducing mistakes involved around extreme ball circulation with players staying in their positions. While Mourinho's has an extreme fear of his team getting caught out of position or being disorganised.
The result are a team that is frightened of making mistakes and players not moving the ball quickly enough.
I cannot accept that this team doesn't have enough talent to taught to play at a higher tempo. It's simply not possible.
We certainly have the players to play at higher tempo but we do have some glaring weaknesses as well and some really average players maybe if Mourinho showed bit more ambition we might be worse off pointwise but entertainment value would be higher and our future outlook would be bit more rosier rather than the gloom which seem to be descending at Old Trafford.
 

Varun

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Mourinho goes ultra conservative if either of the situation or opponent is of a high pedigree. In games like yesterday's though, what shines through is how reliant we are on individual brilliance rather than having a system which breaks teams down.

It isn't about being afraid to lose as much as it is about having no idea how to win.
 

Woodzy

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Not Mourinho’s biggest fan right now but you need to take a look at yourself if you even think about comparing him to Moyes.

Short memories.
 

Tony Banta

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Not Mourinho’s biggest fan right now but you need to take a look at yourself if you even think about comparing him to Moyes.

Short memories.
Indeed. I’m not his biggest fan either.

But Mourinho for all his perceived faults, is nothing like Moyes.
 

Revaulx

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Indeed. I’m not his biggest fan either.

But Mourinho for all his perceived faults, is nothing like Moyes.
I haven't said he's "like" Moyes. He obviously isn't.

I was merely observing, in a "let's compare Jose to past managers" thread, that he seems to have taken on a few superficial but noticeable Moyes-like characteristics recently, that I certain don't remember him displaying in his earlier days. Maybe it's the stress/expectation of managing United, and his arrogance isn't as deep-rooted as LvG's. For a start, neither Jose nor Moyes are Dutch ;)
 

haram

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In games like yesterday's though, what shines through is how reliant we are on individual brilliance rather than having a system which breaks teams down.

It isn't about being afraid to lose as much as it is about having no idea how to win.
We dont know how to win at home? What do you mean by system? This is the same team that blitzed Swansea in that first half bar Herrera in for Lingard. We have some consistency issues, but we have been winning at home all season.
 

Kostov

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Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.
The thing is we didn't hire him to be a clown, but to deliver as a manager of the team.

On topic, I do think they have something in common, both of them were/are too cautious, but Mourinho has always been like that, LVG caved in after that Leicester match I feel.
 

Varun

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We dont know how to win at home? What do you mean by system? This is the same team that blitzed Swansea in that first half bar Herrera in for Lingard. We have some consistency issues, but we have been winning at home all season.
I've not mentioned home anywhere. By system, I mean having a style of play that players are used to, attacking patterns, movement etc. In attack, we look like a collection of individuals doing their thing.
 

ivaldo

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feck me. This place is tragic.
 

Jaap

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Lads, the football won't change under Mourinho - regardless of who else he brings in or sells, respectively.
I have lost hope that he'll deliver quality football over a long period of time.
We have had good games under Moyes, good football under LvG but never CONSISTENTLY.

And now, compare our XIs during those years - Mourinho should be doing much, much better.
 

haram

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I've not mentioned home anywhere. By system, I mean having a style of play that players are used to, attacking patterns, movement etc. In attack, we look like a collection of individuals doing their thing.
The way we set up against West Brom was very similar to how we set up against Swansea. Do you think there was a pattern of play and movement in the Swansea game? Was that a collection of individuals? I made a thread specifically on Mata’s positioning in that game which shows a certain set up and attempt to create patterns through a concentrated overload on the left.

There has been several games where we do play as a team, there are several games where we look disjointed. We DO know how to win though.

Lets not make out losses to teams like West Brom at home are a regular thing. We were very poor, but we’re better than that.
 

Eckers99

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Mourinho goes ultra conservative if either of the situation or opponent is of a high pedigree. In games like yesterday's though, what shines through is how reliant we are on individual brilliance rather than having a system which breaks teams down.

It isn't about being afraid to lose as much as it is about having no idea how to win.
Abso-fecking-lutely. When faced with any kind of organisation the team is utterly clueless. There's no movement, runs in behind, creative hub...nothing.
 

Varun

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The way we set up against West Brom was very similar to how we set up against Swansea. Do you think there was a pattern of play and movement in the Swansea game? Was that a collection of individuals? I made a thread specifically on Mata’s positioning in that game which shows a certain set up and attempt to create patterns through a concentrated overload on the left.

There has been several games where we do play as a team, there are several games where we look disjointed. We DO know how to win though.

Lets not make out losses to teams like West Brom at home are a regular thing. We were very poor, but we’re better than that.
No, we've not had a system of play all season. Yes, we overload the left pretty much every game when we play a WBA but that in itself isn't a system. More often than not, we see all 3 of Mata, Pogba and Sanchez within 5 yards of each other with the receiver taking the others out of play. There's more to having a system than overloading one flank.

When I say how to win, the emphasis is on the "how", not the result. We don't have a system in place that enables our attackers to do well as a unit or give them a platform to work with. We look an uncoached team going forward. This would have remained the case had we beaten WBA yesterday too because lets face it, our points total this season isn't too shabby.
 

King.of.Red

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Well, at least for me, I feel happier watching United under Jose than LVG. god, those years under LVG were nightmares. Hopefully Jose can make the team stronger and better next season. Although there were periods where I was truly annoyed watching us this season, I still believe him.
 

haram

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No, we've not had a system of play all season. Yes, we overload the left pretty much every game when we play a WBA but that in itself isn't a system. More often than not, we see all 3 of Mata, Pogba and Sanchez within 5 yards of each other with the receiver taking the others out of play. There's more to having a system than overloading one flank.

When I say how to win, the emphasis is on the "how", not the result. We don't have a system in place that enables our attackers to do well as a unit or give them a platform to work with. We look an uncoached team going forward. This would have remained the case had we beaten WBA yesterday too because lets face it, our points total this season isn't too shabby.
The overload against Swansea is not something that has been happening all season. Mata’s heatmap from that game foes not compare to any of the other home games.

We have been coached and there is a platform. The reason why Lingard has more output this season is exactly because of that. We simply do not operate a high press like other teams.
 

jem

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Well, at least for me, I feel happier watching United under Jose than LVG. god, those years under LVG were nightmares. Hopefully Jose can make the team stronger and better next season. Although there were periods where I was truly annoyed watching us this season, I still believe him.
It's like comparing having a nasty cold to having the flu. One is obviously worse than the other, but they are both pretty damn miserable.
 

Varun

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The overload against Swansea is not something that has been happening all season. Mata’s heatmap from that game foes not compare to any of the other home games.

We have been coached and there is a platform. The reason why Lingard has more output this season is exactly because of that. We simply do not operate a high press like other teams.
Well, I wish you're right and the team shows it on the pitch but it hasn't been the case. I'll just agree to disagree really because words don't mean much to me, I prefer seeing it on the pitch.
 

Minimalist

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There's a big difference (for me) knowing why something isn't working and just knowing it's not working. Mourinho's the latter.

I also, like some other people, found LvG very likeable away from the results. I know that's a hotly debated topic but I genuinely thought he was good craic even compared to Ferguson.

Moyes and now Mourinho are fecking miserable.
 

Blind

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They're both stuck in the past, as was Moyes. The board are as risk adverse as our football after the Moyes debacle, if Mourinho was to burn his bridges either in the summer or next season, I have no doubt we'd appoint Ancelotti and continue this dull, tedious cycle through past it managers.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Mourinho is increasingly resembling Moyes rather than LvG.

Miserable demeanour. Distancing himself from the team and its shambolic performances. Nothing being his fault.

LvG’s football may have been largely depressing, but as a bloke he certainly wasn’t.
 

MJJ

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Mourinho goes ultra conservative if either of the situation or opponent is of a high pedigree. In games like yesterday's though, what shines through is how reliant we are on individual brilliance rather than having a system which breaks teams down.

It isn't about being afraid to lose as much as it is about having no idea how to win.
mourinho knows how to win, its just that he isnt hte one playing.
 

RedCurry

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Yeah, I get the comparison with LVG, but you seriously can't be comparing him to Moyes.
 

AshRK

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Moyes should not be even brought to this argument. That guy was a disaster. No other top club would have done that. Manchester United sold its success back in 2009 when they sold Ronaldo and replaced with Michael crocked owen and then to compound that misery they replaced sir Alex with david moyes. Trust me these two things were bound to take our club behind the likes of bayern, barca and madrid. Jose has his flaws and he has become a boring history teacher but he got a broken club , a club that was in a mess. I dont know when he will leave but all I know is he will surely leave our club at a better state with better squad than what he had got. So ffs let us not even compare Moyes or lvg with jose
 

MooseTheMooche

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They're both stuck in the past, as was Moyes. The board are as risk adverse as our football after the Moyes debacle, if Mourinho was to burn his bridges either in the summer or next season, I have no doubt we'd appoint Ancelotti and continue this dull, tedious cycle through past it managers.
Oh God, no. Appointing a manager that lost a league to Montpellier and was sacked by Bayern Munich in the middle of the season, because the results were terrible for a club that wins the league each year would be disastrous decision, but quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if that'd be the case when talking about our club and its recent appointments.
 

Mainoldo

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It's quite clear he's a crap and outdated attacking coach. His teams have never played good football however I've never had them down as a team who lack goals if that makes sense. However everytime a team give us freedom to show our stuff we fail. It's definitely not the players though as Fergie figured Mourinho out twice the last two times we played them. The last game at Old Trafford we got an early goal and told Madrid have the ball and hurt us. They did frig all and only won with a bit of brilliance from Modric (who came off the bench.. shock horror) helped by a stupid sending off.

It's not a coincidence.
 

Lentwood

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Well like I said at the time in defence of van Gaal, it’s very difficult to play attractive attacking football with the players we have

Jose has better forwards at his disposal but still we have no right flank, a keeper who struggles to hit the pitch with his kicks never mind a red shirt, defenders who can’t play the ball out and glaring weaknesses in the middle of the park

Swap De Bruyne and Silva out of City and put in Pogba and Mata - I reckon it makes a 10-12pt difference minimum
 

ravi2

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Not Mourinho’s biggest fan right now but you need to take a look at yourself if you even think about comparing him to Moyes.

Short memories.
I don't feel that optimistic about Jose at the moment but to compare him with moyes is madness, we are 2nd and have been 2nd all season. It isn't good enough for United but it's a far cry from where moyes had us.
 

MadDogg

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There are two key difference:

Under LVG we were only getting worse, and he seemed to have no idea how to improve things.

Whereas under Jose we have seen significant improvement both seasons, and reports are he knows what he needs to continue that improvement. The three key roles which we don't currently have (two fullbacks and the midfield playmaker) are playing a huge part in our poor showings, and apparently he's looking at all three to make improvements to.

Could he have done better? In individual matches - certainly. But over the course of the season, we're about where I expected to be (although should have gone further in the CL). As such he's earned the time to make those improvements that he wants and we'll see how things go then.

Comparing him to LVG is completely ignoring the direction the team is going under both managers.
 

Marcky411

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We dont know how to win at home? What do you mean by system? This is the same team that blitzed Swansea in that first half bar Herrera in for Lingard. We have some consistency issues, but we have been winning at home all season.
True but those wins haven't been comfortable either.
 

ROFLUTION

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Mourinho having no plan is not true in my opinion. Every season he's had some very specific transfertargets and they have usually made us progress.

Its just that the plan is not succesfull against West Brom because Lukaku didnt score on one of his chances - Had he done that, we'd be talking like Liverpool about how next year would be our season. We can't blame him for everything.
 

Kostur

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Lads, the football won't change under Mourinho - regardless of who else he brings in or sells, respectively.
I have lost hope that he'll deliver quality football over a long period of time.
We have had good games under Moyes, good football under LvG but never CONSISTENTLY.

And now, compare our XIs during those years - Mourinho should be doing much, much better.
You mean to compare all the deadwood shite that LVG brought in?