amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
You'll still get relegated from the PL if you finish in the bottom 3No because you could get relegated like Leeds.
You'll still get relegated from the PL if you finish in the bottom 3No because you could get relegated like Leeds.
I see no reason to believe this will be true. The ESL is only going to involve 18-25 fixtures per year. Even if they expanded the competition, its not like they're going to play 50-60 matches against the same teams every year. Playing exclusively in Europe makes no sense.The ESL teams will likely leave the domestic leagues shortly after and the rest of Europe will have their leagues but it all being secondary to the main European Super League.
It'll turn into an NFL style thing. They'll get the players on their side by it being 20 teams, everyone plays everyone home and away, so you'll have fewer games to play overall, the domestic leagues will literally become irrelevant as the prize money will be tiny compared to the ESL, and there is no incentive to do anything as you'll be in the ESL no matter what and others won't be able to take part in it. You'll have a group of teams in literally a competition that the rest of the league can't touch no matter how good a season they have, another world (more than now) financially, and end up being like if you plucked the big 6 and put them in the championship for whatever reason. It will absolutely kill every domestic league, or at least cause a restructure that in every big league that continues without the team part of the ESL. The Champions League is of course dead, but the domestic leagues won't survive long (with those teams) either. Not a chance. It'll be a new English top division without the big 6. Spanish league without the big 3. Serie A without Milan/Inter/Juve, and so on.I see no reason to believe this will be true. The ESL is only going to involve 18-25 fixtures per year. Even if they expanded the competition, its not like they're going to play 50-60 matches against the same teams every year. Playing exclusively in Europe makes no sense.
In addition, the domestic competitions are still hugely important revenue generators in terms of TV, matchday, and commercial. The sweet spot for these clubs is going to be playing both the domestic league and the ESL (probably withdrawing from or blowing off the domestic cups).
Honestly, I don't think that makes sense for the big clubs at all. Why play 38 games in the ESL and none domestically when you can play 20 in the ESL and 38 domestically? They make a ton of money from domestic TV rights and a ton of matchday revenue as well and they like to be in multiple competitions because it offers more chance to win something, which is important to keeping and winning supporters. Finally, they would obviously be put under huge political pressure if they really did try to leave the domestic leagues altogether. There is legitimate political risk involved with that kind of decision.It'll turn into an NFL style thing. They'll get the players on their side by it being 20 teams, everyone plays everyone home and away, so you'll have fewer games to play overall, the domestic leagues will literally become irrelevant as the prize money will be tiny compared to the ESL, and there is no incentive to do anything as you'll be in the ESL no matter what and others won't be able to take part in it. You'll have a group of teams in literally a competition that the rest of the league can't touch no matter how good a season they have, another world (more than now) financially, and end up being like if you plucked the big 6 and put them in the championship for whatever reason. It will absolutely kill every domestic league, or at least cause a restructure that in every big league that continues without the team part of the ESL. The Champions League is of course dead, but the domestic leagues won't survive long (with those teams) either. Not a chance. It'll be a new English top division without the big 6. Spanish league without the big 3. Serie A without Milan/Inter/Juve, and so on.
Would be more accurate to say that neither competition will matter at all to the owners of these teams.None of the big teams will be kicked out. They will just consider the league as an inferior trophy and not the priority anymore. The priority going into the season will always be to do well in the Super League. The Premier League will be just a bonus + a way to prepare the players for the more important Super League.
Would be more accurate to say that neither competition will matter at all to the owners of these teams.
The managers and players might care about winning one more than the other, but the owners are guaranteed their cash cows regardless, since the distribution of money is largely set before a ball has even been kicked and not based on success in the SL.
The Glazers new minimum expectations for the United manager: avoid relegation from the Prem, otherwise we dont give a feck, won't affect our income one jot how well you do.
They will probably solve this issue by increasing the money won the more you progress into the super league, to make the clubs interested in doing well. They will give all teams a kick start ton of money + more money the further you get into the competition. Well, anything else will just not make sense from their perspective really.Would be more accurate to say that neither competition will matter at all to the owners of these teams.
The managers and players might care about winning one more than the other, but the owners are guaranteed their cash cows regardless, since the distribution of money is largely set before a ball has even been kicked and not based on success in the SL.
The Glazers new minimum expectations for the United manager: avoid relegation from the Prem, otherwise we dont give a feck, won't affect our income one jot how well you do.
100% agree. Take this season as an example - you're telling me Arsenal can finish mid-table but qualify for the ESL, while Leicester can finish 3rd, and not? And it's all fine saying clubs can compete to qualify for one of the c.3-5 actual competitive places - but that's across multiple leagues, and there are already 6 English clubs in there - so why should Leicester qualify ahead of Lazio, or Ajax, or Lille, Leipzig or Dortmund - and that's assuming PSG and Bayern are added to the 12. Does this mean clubs in the Portuguese and Dutch leagues can't qualify for the ESL?As far as I can see this does terrible damage to Europe's domestic leagues.
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In short, I can't see how this doesn't devalue the PL as a competition as it removes some of the fundamental dynamics that make it so competitive. Am I wrong?
Exactly - this just secures their cash-cow and means they can spend less and earn more.The Glazers new minimum expectations for the United manager: avoid relegation from the Prem, otherwise we dont give a feck, won't affect our income one jot how well you do.
conversely. If you are a team doing poorly in he super league, wouldn’t you then look to concentrate on domestic competition so that you can win a trophy?None of the big teams will be kicked out. They will just consider the league as an inferior trophy and not the priority anymore. The priority going into the season will always be to do well in the Super League. The Premier League will be just a bonus + a way to prepare the players for the more important Super League.
Domestic cups will become a nuisance if they remain and all the big clubs will get themselves KOed from them by the first or second round at most. Ultimately they will probably get canceled completely. Who will want to play in Fa Cup or League Cup instead of the Super League? Doesn't make sense.
Basically the football will revolve around the Super League. It will be the main competition. The others will be inferior trophies in comparison and will just be considered glorified friendlies.
Anyone thinking anything else will happen is honestly just lying to himself.
This doesn't change the fact that the league will be 2nd at best in priority. It will be no different than current state when you can't win the league so try to win a domestic cup just to salvage anything out of the season, it doesn't make domestic cups of any more value than the league. This will be the same : "oh boy, we are doing poorly in Super League, maybe try to win the PL or something, better than nothing eh?".conversely. If you are a team doing poorly in he super league, wouldn’t you then look to concentrate on domestic competition so that you can win a trophy?
only one team can win the super league - the 19 other teams will still want silverware.
But only one team can win the SL. That won’t satisfy 19 clubs’ fans. What’s the priority for City or PSG this season? It’s the CL, 100% - hasn’t stopped this high winning their domestic titles.This doesn't change the fact that the league will be 2nd at best in priority. It will be no different than current state when you can't win the league so try to win a domestic cup just to salvage anything out of the season, it doesn't make domestic cups of any more value than the league. This will be the same : "oh boy, we are doing poorly in Super League, maybe try to win the PL or something, better than nothing eh?".
The top priority will always be the super league. The league will be degraded to the same level the current Fa Cup and EFL cups are : a bonus trophy and nothing more.
Needless to say, I am ready to bet the amount of money you will still win by "doing poorly in SL" will be far more than what the PL winner themselves will get.
Fans what fans? This entire super league stuff is just done for business. It's not done for sports or anything. It's done because they want more money than what UEFA is giving them that's all. No one cares about fans (who are still going to watch and bring revenue regardless of the competition and what their team will do anyway).But only one team can win the SL. That won’t satisfy 19 clubs’ fans. What’s the priority for City or PSG this season? It’s the CL, 100% - hasn’t stopped this high winning their domestic titles.
you are just too emotional.Fans what fans? This entire super league stuff is just done for business. It's not done for sports or anything. It's done because they want more money than what UEFA is giving them that's all. No one cares about fans (who are still going to watch and bring revenue regardless of the competition and what their team will do anyway).
PL won't be on the same level of current CL in priority when the super league kicks on. It will be a tournament for losers, basically, teams who couldn't do shit in super league and want to salvage season by any trophy. Current CL isn't treated like that, Fa Cup and League Cups are.
Why does everyone keep referring to the Big 6? Have Tottenham really done enough to merit the 'Big 4' being expanded. And if so, what have they done that other teams can't. They certainly haven't won anything.Again, this is your narrative but not reality. since 04/05, Only Everton (in 05) and Leicester after their title win have qualified for CL. The rest of the time all CL qualifiers have been one of these top 6 teams going in to the SL
Hmm, honestly pretty much has nothing to do with what I said. You are the one who said it's for fans satisfaction that their team who can't win SL will want to win PL, even though you recognize that no one gives a shit about fans anyway (which is what I said by the way, who cares about fans satisfaction as long as they keep watching and bringing revenues? ).you are just too emotional.
no one is claiming this is anything but greed. But the pl was formed due to money, so was the CL, and the subsequent revisions. Fans haven’t mattered to clubs and organising bodies for 30 years. I’m not saying that’s right, and this is not just aimed at you - but feck me, everyone has got on their moral high horse over the past 24 hours, and forgotten the greed and corruption that’s endemic across football to get us to this point.
however, fans will still watch this, and yes the domestic leagues will still matter
Ya, the worst thing about this is that United are helping out foreign clubs. That's 100% the worst thing about this entire situation .What annoys me about this super league idea
Clubs like Real Madrid lived off government bail outs and Franco to become successful. Both Real and Barca get the lions share of their league's revenue money. Rightly so because THEY are the draw. However clubs like ours had to share revenue with all the premier league sides despite being THE Draw for a long time. That enabled Real/Barca to use their leverage to become the most financially successful clubs in the world. The benefit of the Premier league shared tv revenue model was that it become the most entertaining/competitive league globally. Now clubs like Barca and Real are beginning to feel financial strain. So why are EPL clubs trying to benefit those european clubs? why not stick to the premier league and end la liga clubs long run?
I also don't like that Tottenham get to be part of this league. they're a big club but so what? They're just another premier league club.
Annoying.
And clubs will fleece us more than before too since Utd would be a SL founding teamIt will affect Man Utd more than any other club in it
1) the money for joining - other clubs will invest it. Our owners will keep it
2) We no longer will invest enough to stay in the top 4. We will just invest enough to remain in the PL
That’s exactly where the PL will end up as well. If the PL give in to the big 6 now, United et al will come knocking for bigger PL TV rights in future. The gulf between the big 6 and the rest of the league will be so big that the PL would just roll over. This is all about money, pure and simple.It varies according to the league. The PL will no doubt suffer, but nothing compared to La Liga or Serie A where all the big tv money will be syphoned out. The gap between the big clubs there is much bigger than in the PL
Yeah this is the biggest issue. It's basically assured money for the Glazers without spending money on us too much to stay competitive.It will affect Man Utd more than any other club in it
1) the money for joining - other clubs will invest it. Our owners will keep it
2) We no longer will invest enough to stay in the top 4. We will just invest enough to remain in the PL
It will because they will just end up playing their best players in the week prioritizing the super league because there is so much money involved and then weaker teams at the weekend in the premier league. I hope they get kicked out of the EPLNope, you're right. It will slowly kill off the leagues.
The problem withLet's see using your example.
How would it be if there were a 20 club premier league with no relegation/promotion and no reward like top 4 to CL (cause there is no reward for that in ESL). Other than winning it what else is there?
Where does such a system exist? In the US sports. So how do they keep the interest alive? With a playoff system for the title. Personally not interested in that.
I was replying to the idea the Super league might damage domestic leagues. I was pointing out that the last time a new elite league was created (EPL) the lower league clubs still had fans, still retained attendances and still remained exciting leagues for their fans.Let's see using your example.
How would it be if there were a 20 club premier league with no relegation/promotion and no reward like top 4 to CL (cause there is no reward for that in ESL). Other than winning it what else is there?
Where does such a system exist? In the US sports. So how do they keep the interest alive? With a playoff system for the title. Personally not interested in that.
They've played more CL finals in recent years than any English team except Liverpool.Why does everyone keep referring to the Big 6? Have Tottenham really done enough to merit the 'Big 4' being expanded. And if so, what have they done that other teams can't. They certainly haven't won anything.
Shhhh apparently this is all fine according to some posters. Forget competitiveness, forget merit.You say "the top teams" will compete for the title but those top teams will only ever be from the permanent SL teams, bolstered by the lucrative and guaranteed financial income that competition provides.
The ability of a team like Leicester to supplant a team like Arsenal (as they have in recent years) among the league's "top teams" disappears as regardless of how they perform in a given season they cannot compete in the long-run with Arsenal's guaranteed wealth and status, which is now unaffected by their league performances. The ability to build on the windfall of competing in the CL relative to one of the big name teams that misses out is diminished.
The likes of ourselves and Arsenal (who deservedly fell behind other teams who were better run than us in recent years and failed to make the CL) are now protected from our own incompetence.
Sure, they've done well in a knockout competition. I'm not denying they've had relative success, but they've still not won anything.They've played more CL finals in recent years than any English team except Liverpool.
They played more CL finals than Madrid too in recent years (depends on what you mean by recent years btw).They've played more CL finals in recent years than any English team except Liverpool.