I think it's fallacy to assume just because you support one candidate from a party you're obliged to vote for another in that same party once your candidate drops out - this is the sort of herd mentality that is frought with political danger
What did Hillary do wrong and what's next for her?
- Thread starter sammsky1
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Her whole campaign was basically "I'm not Trump" - which, to be fair, I thought was enough at the time. Looking back though, there's nothing about her campaign that was memorable and as others have said - she underestimated how much people dislike her as well.
This, 2016 is just an incredible year, hopefully it'll end without anymore major disaster.
That should be more than enough.
The whole DNC leadership did even when polls of just Democrats during the primaries were showing that even amongst their own support she had worrying negatives.
I know I certainly would've scoffed at the notion that Sanders was a better candidate. Thought Clinton would be the conservative candidate in a race that would be conservative vs reckless. As it turned out she was the unpopular establishment candidate in a race that was unpopular establishment vs something different.
In some ways she really has been unlucky. In the 2008 campaign when it really looked like all any Democrat candidate would have to do was get out the vote and they would beat the Republican candidate (people were sick of Bush and wanted a change from that), she ran into a buzz saw named Barrack Obama. Not only could he be presented as a candidate for change as he did not have a long political career in DC, he was everything you want in candidate. Energetic. Outstanding speaker. Cool. Dynamic. Able to deliver his voting base to the polls. She was however, none of this. In fact in the backlash against Bush, why would people turn to electing another Presidential Family Dynasty?
Fast forward to 2016. Large elements of both parties voting base are sick of business as usual. Looking for a candidate who at least gives them a feel of not being a DC insider. Bernie gives her a run for her money in the primaries, despite her being handing a large delegate lead with the super delegates. IN the other party you had a huge ground swell of people who did not want what their party tried to give them either. They however were successful in getting their guy the nomination. So once again she faced a voting populace sick of the same old same old and her she is wife of a former President, former Senator, for Secretary of State swimming against a tide of people who have decided they hate politicians.
Now we can point to all sorts of hypocrisy, racism, stupidity of the voters that also played into her defeat this time, but I was just going along with the victim of circumstance. It should also be pointed out her campaign for the Dem Nomination in 2008 was a total mess and I am not sure her campaign vs. Trump was much better.
sort of the same thing that she ran into when she sought the nomination in 2008.
A victim of circumstance? Any politician would love the chance to run off against someone as vile as Trump.
She's a massive failure with no message and no likeability. Even women didnt take to her. You cant just say well the country is angry, its down to her to win their vote.
She would have won it in 2008 and Obama would have walked this one in an alternative universe.
Michelle 2020 it is then...
So should the DNC have backed Bernie instead of Clinton? As an outsider, Bernie to me spoke the right things. Clinton? ANOTHER Clinton? The DNC underestimated how sick people are of the status quo.
The DNC were never going to "back" someone who'd only just become a Democrat and whose platform was a large departure from the last 8 years, over someone as respected in the party as she was and seen as a continuation of the Obama presidency. Yes, that may be symbolic of the insider/outsider problem, but it's also common sense.
Well, it definitely is. I'm just speaking as a layman here, but maybe they should have looked at Brexit and think about how people's resentment at the establishment can be underestimated.
- She was completely uninspiring, in a time people are desperate for hope,
- She offered to little change in a time people are crying out for it.
- She came across as smug and superior in a time when people are rebelling against the establishment
- She failed to even aknoladge alot of americans fears nevermind address them.
I don't think it is as simple as that.
The superdelegate system is awful IMO and needs to go. Even still, Bernie's campaign needed to do more to capture voters in the south and coasts during the primaries.
Where Clinton fecked up (and yes, hindsight is 20/20) was, Bernie got so much appeal in the midwest. Why didn't she adopt the vast majority of his policies and bring him closer into the fold? I don't think her campaign utilized Sanders much until the very end, in a panic move.
She'd already long since won the primary by the time that happened.
People are very quick to blame her for failing to win over voters from Trump, but don't seem to mention that Sanders failed to win over voters from her. Some are very quick to blame her voters for not thinking about the emails, without blaming Sanders for refusing to make it a campaign issue. Note - I'm not blaming him for these things either, just trying to get away from the "everything was her fault" thing. If Trump's going to be beaten in four years, the correct lessons need to be learned from this and applied. Not just things that reinforce prior beliefs and grievances.
Not really, what that does is tell a lot of people not to vote for Trump, instead of why to vote for Clinton.That should be more than enough.
I thought the same, it certainly was enough for me. But clearly that didn't resonate with as many people as her campaign hoped for.That should be more than enough.
Trump was given loads of ammunition when it showed she may be really unfit to lead, didn't even bother to get in front of her people who stood for hours lamenting and living through hell of crushing projections and final results. Basically threw everyone under the bus, including Bernie.
She could be politically dead just like her husband but democrats need to rebuild anyway and find new set of inspirational figures just like they did with Obama.
She could be politically dead just like her husband but democrats need to rebuild anyway and find new set of inspirational figures just like they did with Obama.
she made the exact same error that the Brexit Remain campaign did, she didn't talk about her strengths and plans but rather the weaknesses of the other side and why it wouldn't work. In the end, that's not what people want to hear and it backfired (on both counts)
Is Comey going to be Def Sec? Surely he was promised a big big position for him to do what he did.
If Comey will receive that kind of payment then Assange should probably become a Vice.
I just can't remember a single speech or media appearance where she really delivered as an orator. It might be overrated to some but for me these days, you need to talk a good game. Trump was talking shite but he delivered his message pretty well (hilarious/cringeworthy as it might have been at times).
Hilary was just a dud. The celebrity stuff was awful too.
Hilary was just a dud. The celebrity stuff was awful too.
Or she lost to a black man and she lost to a misogynst racist so she'd lose to most people.
ie. she is a loser who should never have stood in the first place and only did so because she is part of the entitled elite?
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Huh?
What are these 2 points? 2 more % votes? That's alot of votes so hardly revelations. Especially in the electoral system
Pretty much just a few points in the latter stages. It was unexpected she'd win the popular vote by anything more than 4-5%, and even that was optimistic.Ok mate
Polls had her how far ahead of trump?
So for all the folks saying she will be locked out. Both Giulani and Christie said "that was politics" and it probably won't happen
National ones had her ahead about 3-4, she'll end up ahead by 1-2. The big miss was in polling upper midwestern states.Ok mate
Polls had her how far ahead of trump?
On current numbers - 28,000 votes in Wisconsin, 13,000 votes in Michigan, 70,000 in Pennsylvania.
I'm going to start this now: #KellyAnne2020
Yup. Cheney still breathing like Darth Vader but still... breathing.
You are wasting your time with some.
Simply put neither of these candidates comes out smelling like flowers from morality pov. Whether warranted or not, Hillary has a terrible reputation too and has held that position for much longer with the general public.
That simply means people will consider other issues too when voting.
But it's much easier to call someone a bigot rather than try to comprehend that.
I think he is merely showing the complete contrasts between the people that she lost too perhaps showing that she hardly appeals to either side.
Well I think that's what he meant
Christie might still wind up in prison himself
Based off what I've heard, I would enjoy that. To be fair, If Hillary deserves to go, she should too.
The volatile political environment won't allow it though.