What did Hillary do wrong and what's next for her?

Drainy

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She also pissed off the left of her party during the primary by fighting dirty and arrogantly acted like they would fall in line during the election.

Picking Tim Kaine she may have squeaked Virginia but lost the enthusiasm of liberals in her party. She should have picked one of Warren or Sanders but she didn't want to deal with the left once she was 'inevitably ' elected
 

Ducklegs

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She made the same mistake that labour and the remain parties made over here.

Rather than focusing on he own policies and what she was going to do and explain how she would make things better she resorted to ad hominem attacks and bleating about how awful the other side are.

You don't need to trot out your entire manifesto, just pick the three biggest head lines you've got and hammer them home

Trump had endless ammunition to fire during his campaign, immigration, jobs, the failure of the establishment, the wall, nothing is made in America any more etc etc etc etc.
 

langster

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Hillary lost due to a combination of many different things.

1. The FBI investigation and announcement a week before the election really didn't help and caused a lot of mistrust surrounding her name. Also, a lot of people genuinely didn't like her very much either.

2. Almost everyone underestimates how angry and hate filled a lot of people are and how a huge part of America feels completely ignored. The best thing Drumpf did was to pretend he heard what they said and attempted to speak for them, if he does or not is not the point, the point is they felt he listened and understood.

3. A lot of Bernie supporters who voted elsewhere didn't help, and neither did the Democrats who just plain didn't vote at all. Hillary lost Michigan by 13,000 votes I think and they had 110,000 votes that didn't vote for President for fecks sake.

4. She just didn't get her policies over well, and also the recent problems with the rising of ObamaCare costs were extremely unfortunate and very bad timing for the Dems and she really didn't make enough out of how she would deal with it either.

5. The Press! They should have destroyed Drumpf before he got started. If they had done their job properly instead of playing for ratings and building him up like the second coming during the Primaries, then none of this would ever have happened. They are as responsible for this loss as anyone else.

6. Russian involvement and WikiLeaks certainly didn't help. Personally I would have thought recent admissions from the Russians would be enough cause for a revote.

Combine those all together and there is Hillary's loss for you. However, the funniest thing I have seen so far is the wankers on Faux and the rest of the Republican tossers all calling for unity and asking the country to get behind the President elect. I find this typical of them and absolutely disgusting to be honest. The way all of them have treated Obama for 8 years is despicable. The birther issue, the constant blocking of his policies and plans, the continuous slagging off of him and his wife and the continuous daily blaming him for every single fault in the country. Never did you ever hear anything positive about Obama on Faux News, nor from Drumpf, of Rudy G, or Palin, or any of the Republicans, and now they have the nerve to ask for unity and for everyone to get behind them. WOW! They have some nerve, and hopefully absolutely no chance of that happening. They should get exactly what they have given Obama and the Dems for 8 years which is sweet feck all. The country is divided, but the man they have just elected is the worst person and least qualified to be able to unite it. This just isn't going to be pretty at all.

I would like to add though that it's a long time to January, its quite possible he might not even make it to then what with lawsuits and past misdemeanours against him. That's not to mention if he tries to do some of the things he has said he will he will be impeached instantly. Making it to January is one thing, actually seeing out 4 years is another. The only trouble with that is his VP is even worse and his possible cabinet look to be even worse still.
 
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greatscott9930

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Hillary lost due to a combination of many different things.

1. The FBI investigation and announcement a week before the election really didn't help and caused a lot of mistrust surrounding her name. Also, a lot of people genuinely didn't like her very much either.

2. Almost everyone underestimates how angry and hate filled a lot of people are and how a huge part of America feels completely ignored. The best thing Drumpf did was to pretend he heard what they said and attempted to speak for them, if he does or not is not the point, the point is they felt he listened and understood.

3. A lot of Bernie supporters who voted elsewhere didn't help, and neither did the Democrats who just plain didn't vote at all. Hillary lost Michigan by 13,000 votes I think and they had 110,000 votes that didn't vote for President for fecks sake.

4. She just didn't get her policies over well, and also the recent problems with the rising of ObamaCare costs were extremely unfortunate and very bad timing for the Dems and she really didn't make enough out of how she would deal with it either.

5. The Press! They should have destroyed Drumpf before he got started. If they had done their job properly instead of playing for ratings and building him up like the second coming during the Primaries, then none of this would ever have happened. They are as responsible for this loss as anyone else.

6. Russian involvement and WikiLeaks certainly didn't help. Personally I would have thought recent admissions from the Russians would be enough cause for a revote.

Combine those all together and there is Hillary's loss for you. However, the funniest thing I have seen so far is the wankers on Faux and the rest of the Republican tossers all calling for unity and asking the country to get behind the President elect. I find this typical of them and absolutely disgusting to be honest. The way all of them have treated Obama for 8 years is despicable. The birther issue, the constant blocking of his policies and plans, the continuous slagging off of him and his wife and the continuous daily blaming him for every single fault in the country. Never did you ever hear anything positive about Obama on Faux News, nor from Drumpf, of Rudy G, or Palin, or any of the Republicans, and now they have the nerve to ask for unity and for everyone to get behind them. WOW! They have some nerve, and hopefully absolutely no chance of that happening. They should get exactly what they have given Obama and the Dems for 8 years which is sweet feck all. The country is divided, but the man they have just elected is the worst person and least qualified to be able to unite it. This just isn't going to be pretty at all.

I would like to add though that it's a long time to January, its quite possible he might not even make it to then what with lawsuits and past misdemeanours against him. That's not to mention if he tries to do some of the things he has said he will he will be impeached instantly. Making it to January is one thing, actually seeing out 4 years is another. The only trouble with that is his VP is even worse and his possible cabinet look to be even worse still.
By a Republican congress? Not likely.
 

Drainy

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5. The Press! They should have destroyed Drumpf before he got started. If they had done their job properly instead of playing for ratings and building him up like the second coming during the Primaries, then none of this would ever have happened. They are as responsible for this loss as anyone else.

6. Russian involvement and WikiLeaks certainly didn't help. Personally I would have thought recent admissions from the Russians would be enough cause for a revote.
The press were actually doing everything to help Hilary. The wikileaks emails indicate that Clinton camp asked their friends in the media to promote Trump during the primary to muddy the field and leave easy pickings for her.
 

greatscott9930

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That matters not if he is committing illegal acts or embarrassing the party and country. Not to mention the fact the majority of Republicans don't like him either, feck, many voted against him for fecks sake.
Embarrassing the party or country is not exactly an impeachable offense. He certainly could be impeached for committing illegal acts, but I do not recall him proposing anything that is illegal per se (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Most of what he has proposed would require congressional approval anyway, so it seems unlikely that congress would impeach him for something they had a hand in.
 

greatscott9930

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Also, the only two instances of impeachment in US history were by Republicans against Democratic presidents.
 

greatscott9930

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They're too proud to accept that he's a total asshole.
I get what you're saying, but that's not an impeachable offense either (I'm not approving of his behavior, don't get me wrong; I did not vote for him so don't think I'm one of his supporters). I've probably derailed the thread from the original topic, so I'll bow out.
 

Abizzz

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They'd be stupid as hell to even try to impeach him. He and his "movement" are currently larger than the GOP in the public eye. He has just convinced millions of people to vote GOP who wouldn't have voted GOP for any other candidate. Impeaching him would be political suicide atm (and for a couple of years).

He's been guarding against this with his disdain for the republican establishment. If they impeach him they'll just be thrown in with the democratic establishment... We have to face it, in domestic politics he will be the most powerful president in a very long time.
 

Winrar

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That matters not if he is committing illegal acts or embarrassing the party and country. Not to mention the fact the majority of Republicans don't like him either, feck, many voted against him for fecks sake.
I applaud you for staying so optimistic in this time.
 

Striker10

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She's done a lot of things wrong. Not just criminal acts and acts of stupidity but she's a war monger. She represents corporations not people. She is a liar which is what people are when they say one thing to the public and another to special interest. With them paying her, who is she going to listen too?.. What's next for her? Jail hopefully but who knows right? There are assumptions and then there are assumptions. Lots of people make assumptions but America needs to handle the corporations because the people are getting 'raped' by corruption.

America is in big trouble and i'm not concerned about some witch ultimately. The stupidity of the people is mind blowing. Obama during his election saying it could be rigged - then denying it after Trump kept saying it....but according to ma memory - anyone could be president (providing they were a yank), so why they all related?......That would indicate strongly, a rigged system lol. Even with some of the machines yesterday flipping from trump to Clinton - when it's that one sided it's implying something....but it doesn't mean it's implying what's suggested.

People have had enough to the corruption but there is a long way to go yet till we rid ourselves of complete assholes.
 
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Drifter

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She pampered to much to the Republicans. The DNC warned her about this but she ignored it. You can take the woman out of the Republican party but you can't take Republican out of the woman.Also she never really won over those Bernie supporters that felt that he was hard done by during the primaries. I hope after this the Democrats will adopt Bernie's progressive style politics and move forward.
 
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jimmyb2000

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She always dressed like an alien ambassador from an early Star Trek The Next Generation episode.

Wear some human clothes next time.
Yeh, she looked like a female chairman Mao a lot of the time with the weird Tunic Pant Suits covering up every bit of flesh.
 

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She's done a lot of things wrong. Not just criminal acts and acts of stupidity but she's a war monger. She represents corporations not people. She is a liar which is what people are when they say one thing to the public and another to special interest. With them paying her, who is she going to listen too?.. What's next for her? Jail hopefully but who knows right? There are assumptions and then there are assumptions. Lots of people make assumptions but America needs to handle the corporations because the people are getting 'raped' by corruption.

America is in big trouble and i'm not concerned about some witch ultimately. The stupidity of the people is mind blowing. Obama during his election saying it could be rigged - then denying it after Trump kept saying it....but according to ma memory - anyone could be president (providing they were a yank), so why they all related?......That would indicate strongly, a rigged system lol. Even with some of the machines yesterday flipping from trump to Clinton - when it's that one sided it's implying something....but it doesn't mean it's implying what's suggested.

People have had enough to the corruption but there is a long way to go yet till we rid ourselves of complete assholes.
Absolutely

She's so reprehensible I wouldn't even know where to begin but Whitewater alone was so damning that it beggars belief that so many people associated with it saw jail time yet the Clintons emerged unscathed. If Vince Foster could be interviewed from the grave, wonder what he'd have to share.

In the end though, she is an out of touch corporate stooge that will never be likable - hope this is the end of the Clintons, I'm sure most are tired of them
 

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He may not be successful in jailing her, but he can humiliate her by making her arse around the country in courts defending her actions. It would be a spectacle that will play well with GOP hardline voters.
And would probably see him impeached. Using the power of the President's office to humiliate a political opponent is a big no no.
 

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The support for Bernie among young people was something really special. If he would have been the candidate, i imagine all this young people would have taken the job to convince their family's why he is the best alternative, etc... "Mom, Dad, you guys know the political system in those countries where the people is happy and thriving? well, its something like what Sanders propose to make us. Aren't you guys tired of supporting this corrupt system of ours? We live in the greatest country in the world, the richest, yet, we are so far away from the standard of living in some other countries with less resources than us, etc etc"

in a some parallel universe, Sanders won easily.
I'd like to believe that as well, but you should never underestimate the pathological hatred for socialism over there. Still, it's evident that people wanted change in some form or the other, and they voted on the candidate they believe will bring that about instead of the one who would just keep the status quo. Sanders had the right ideas and he might have been "changey" enough for many of the voters, but he was still a socialist and that's a bad start right there.

Still, as long as the republicans own the congress and the senate, it would be impossible for Sanders to do anything radical, just as it has been for Obama these eight years.

The sad fecking part though, is that politics (especially over there) is more about a game of one-upmanship than it is about actually helping the citizens. On top of that you have the immensely powerful industry lobbies who pull the strings in the backgrounds and don't really give a shit about anything other than profit (remember Pizza being classed as a vegetable in Congress).
 

Penna

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Yeh, she looked like a female chairman Mao a lot of the time with the weird Tunic Pant Suits covering up every bit of flesh.
I have a suspicion that she's not in very good health and I think her clothes choices (which became noticeable after a while) may have been something to do with that. As for her next move, to retire to enjoy a well-heeled lifestyle and write her memoirs (if she hasn't already written them) would be the best thing she could do.

She'll never get another chance at the top job.
 

kidbob

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The woman had no concession speech written for God's sake. They were so sure they could screw over Bernie and raise Trump up as their easy opponent and it blew up in their faces. The sheer embarrassment of not facing your supporters and conceding over the phone should ensure her political career is completely over.

Like Cameron, the Democrats decided that calling the oppostion voters a plethora of different names would easily win them a victory. Clearly not once did they stop and think to ask these "stupid, racist" people what their feelings actually were. It's the height of ignorance to believe you can assume knowledge of a situation without first putting in the effort to learn about it. This election and brexit are what you get when you fight ignorance with ignorance.

Look at twitter for feck sake, peoples arguments are limited to a lovely 140 caracters. We can upvote the things that suit us, regardless of truth, and downvote the things we don't like, regardless of truth.

Hell look at the election thread here, none of you thought he could win. You called the ones who argued 'out of touch' and ridiculed them for their opinions. Seems a lot like ye guys are out of touch too.

Having a lovely 2 party dictatorship don't help much either.
 

Jaxdan

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The more I think on it, the more I'm struggling to buy into the narrative that Hilary was just up against a tidal wave of support for Trump, and that everyone would've struggled against him.

Polling that came out last night showed remarkably high approval for Obama, especially impressive after being in office for eight years and almost paradoxical in the context of what came afterwards. It's a general sentiment that seems to be prevailing, too - that the US is only realising how lucky they were to have Obama and will view him very positively in hindsight.

Based on that, I think a good Dem candidate would've won, and probably done so quite comfortably. Sanders is a different case because of the socialist candidate and independent background but the major argument I've seen many, many people use in regards to this election was how shite both candidates were. The narrative that both were as bad as each other was a frustrating one, but it was a narrative that persisted nonetheless and Sanders wouldn't have been able to be tagged in the same light.

Even if it wasn't him though, I reckon a decent, strong Democrat candidate with a clean background and a likable personality would've won. Clinton's biggest problem by far was that she ultimately lost the swing states - in a number she only needed a small swing and a better candidate than her would have surely been able to achieve that.

Obama's high approval ratings are based on his 'likeability'. Most people think he is a nice guy. His policies? Not so much. This was also a repudiation of him in a way, she would've basically carried on his 'legacy' as a 3rd term. He campaigned HARD for her the last two weeks in Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio. She lost all three. I wasn't surprised as so many seemed to be, because I could feel it on the ground. But the numbers she lost Ohio by was really telling.
 

sammsky1

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Absolutely

She's so reprehensible I wouldn't even know where to begin but Whitewater alone was so damning that it beggars belief that so many people associated with it saw jail time yet the Clintons emerged unscathed. If Vince Foster could be interviewed from the grave, wonder what he'd have to share.

In the end though, she is an out of touch corporate stooge that will never be likable - hope this is the end of the Clintons, I'm sure most are tired of them
Despite wanting het to win, Im also detest her now. Mostly because if she couldn't beat Trump despite her many advantages, then she must genuinely be quite unlikable.

As I wrote in the OP, I will blame for for Trump for the rest of my life.
 

FCBarca

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Blame the state of politics and our general apathy towards actual change, not the Obama mediacized change we were promised
 

sammsky1

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What I've been saying all along.
Trump won because he know how to answer the right question, and Hillary had no idea what question she was answering.
Hillary Clinton had the prior experience of 3 election campaigns, she had overwhelming support from the media and a massive advertising budget and yet she failed to properly identify what her product was.
Its an unforgivable and amateurish mistake that she appointed people who could not provide her the proper council.
Genuinely, I would personally have done a better job.




Trump vs. Clinton: The Better Candidate Doesn't Win, the Better Marketer Does

You Can't Argue With Clinton's Slogan -- and That's Just Part of the Problem

By Rance Crain, Al Ries. Published on July 29, 2016.

Regardless of what happens in November, the Presidential election will be remembered as a testimonial to the power of marketing.

How did a business person with no political experience propel himself to be in a position to perhaps upset the world's most-experienced politician?

The answer is marketing.

The most important ingredient in marketing is to stake out a unique claim that differentiates your brand from everybody else's brand. Love him or hate him, that's exactly what Donald Trump has done, starting with his classic rant against Mexican immigrants.

Both Trump and Bernie Sanders understood that controversy creates news and news build brands. The media unwittingly helped build both of their brands by not only reporting their controversial statements, but also by taking issue with many of them.

This had the effect of strengthening the viewpoints among people who agreed with Trump and Sanders. It's the old marketing maxim: Ignore your competition, don't debate them.

The minute you debate your opponent, you create the impression that they have a legitimate argument. So the media is turning out to be Trump's biggest ally, the opposite of what many of them intended.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, made the classic marketing mistake. She has not focused on one specific issue. Nor have any of her issues created much controversy.

As a matter of fact, she tries to appeal to everyone by giving away all kinds of goodies to children, students, parents and retired people. She should have heeded the old marketing principle: If you try to appeal to everybody, you're in danger of appealing to no one.

What does her slogan, "Stronger together," really mean? What did her previous slogans such as "Fighting for us" or "I'm with her" mean?

There's no doubt that Trump's slogan, "Make America great again," is controversial because it appeals to people who don't think America is on the right track. It creates controversy because it gets an argument going with people who do think America is doing well.

Who can argue with Hillary's slogan "Stronger together?" It creates no controversy nor any reason for rebuttals.

Her slogan is so weak that Jessie Jackson in his Democratic convention speech tried to help her out with a concoction of his own: "It's healing time. It's hope time. It's Hillary time."

Many of the other speakers at the Democratic convention played into Trump's hands. President Barack Obama, reacting to Trump's slogan, insisted that "America is already great. America is already strong."

And, he added, " I promise you, our strength, our greatness does not depend on Donald Trump."

But, according to the latest Rasmussen Report, only 24% of likely voters think the country is heading in the right direction. So President Obama's words only reinforce Trump's point.

A candidate often wins or loses on Day One, the day he or she throws the proverbial hat into the ring. When Barack Obama announced his entry into the 2008 Presidential race, he hammered the idea of change -- "Change we can believe in." And then he focused his entire campaign on the same idea until the November election which he won big.

Hillary, on the other hand, was all over the place during that primary. She started with: "Big challenges, real solutions: Time to pick a President."

Then she moved onto: "Renew the promise of American." And then: "In to win." And then: "Working for change, working for you." And then: "Countdown to change." (An attempt to play off Obama's idea.)

Then it was onto: "Ready for change, ready to lead." And then: "Solutions for America." (Ironically, the same marketing vacillation she is showing in the 2016 campaign.)

But is Trump really a one-issue candidate? Hasn't he taken a lot of positions on other issues like NATO, taxes, trade, etc?

He sure has, but this is one of the realities of a political campaign. The media forces candidates to express their ideas about a host of issues. That's why it's extremely important for any political candidate to forcefully establish a single position on Day One. A position that can weather the media storm in the months to come.

Whether Trump wins or loses, marketers should emulate his playbook by using more controversy in their ads. These days, advertising campaigns have been pretty bland. And maybe that's why many established brands have been losing market share to upstart products.

In the past, marketers scored big when they pushed the envelope. Remember Clairol's "Does she or doesn't she?" And Calvin Klein's "Nothing comes between me and my Calvins?" And Maidenform's "I dreamed I was . . . . . . in my Maidenform bra?"

Or even Volkswagen's "Think small?"

In the day when the automotive standard was big shinny cars, the VW campaign was shocking. It led to such memorable headlines such as: "It makes your house look bigger." And, "If you run out of gas, it's easy to push."

The better product doesn't necessarily win in the marketplace. And the better person doesn't necessarily win in the political arena.

But what does win, more often than not, is the better marketing strategy.

http://adage.com/article/campaign-trail/trump-clinton-person-win-marketer/305242/
 
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Jaxdan

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Easy to castigate and call people names because we had to choose between two flawed candidates, hold our nose, and simply vote for who we hope and pray may hire better people around him/her to do a better job running the country. He got almost 30% of the Hispanic/non-white vote as well from polls I've seen.
 

Neutral

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Easy to castigate and call people names because we had to choose between two flawed candidates, hold our nose, and simply vote for who we hope and pray may hire better people around him/her to do a better job running the country. He got almost 30% of the Hispanic/non-white vote as well from polls I've seen.
Yup - his Latino vote count was very much in line with what Romney got. I have serious issues with a core group of his support. But, it's completely out of order to call every Trump supporter a bigot/racist. There are a lot of decent americans amongst those 59.6mil votes and chastising them or labeling them is not going to help anyone.
 

SteveJ

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"Congratulations, Donald - I concede...whaddya mean, 'What am I wearing right now'?"
 

sullydnl

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Yup - his Latino vote count was very much in line with what Romney got. I have serious issues with a core group of his support. But, it's completely out of order to call every Trump supporter a bigot/racist. There are a lot of decent americans amongst those 59.6mil votes and chastising them or labeling them is not going to help anyone.
They might not be racist but they still voted for Trump, so they don't get to escape association with his policies. If you don't want to be portrayed as a bigot, don't vote for a bigot.
 

Jaxdan

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They might not be racist but they still voted for Trump, so they don't get to escape association with his policies. If you don't want to be portrayed as a bigot, don't vote for a bigot.
I don't much care what anonymous people on an internet site may portray me. I'm secure enough in my own beliefs. My family, friends, and other around me know me better. That's fine by me.
 

sullydnl

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I don't much care what anonymous people on an internet site may portray me. I'm secure enough in my own beliefs. My family, friends, and other around me know me better. That's fine by me.
I'm not portraying you as anything, your vote is.

You endorsed a candidate who ran on bigoted policies. If he follows through on them then you're partly responsible. That's a fact, irrespective of how I, you or your family view your character. After all, you didn't vote for what you believe, you voted for Trump and whatever he claims to believe.

If you didn't want to be associated with his policies, then you shouldn't have associated yourself with his policies.
 

Adisa

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As far as i'm concerned, she didn't do much wrong. She's a victim of circumstance.
 

Cheesy

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The Bernie supporter has some very pointed things to say about the Democratic Party and the Clintons.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/opinions/democratic-party-burn-tasini/index.html

Did I mention he was a Bernie supporter? Just mentioning that as a matter of fairness.
Interesting. I think a lot of that is very fair - some may be over the top and too far left in its viewpoint for a lot of Americans, but I think there's a general point to be made that in an election where a lot of key swing states went for Trump, Bernie may have been able to win them by appealing to the dissatisfaction of many people who've been fecked over in recent years.

I wonder if this is part of what we've missed when talking about Trump voters. Anyone who voted Bernie and would consider switching to Trump would be characterised as reactionary and anti-Clinton for the sake of it (and that's true to an extent), but it becomes more understandable if you're someone who's just felt failed by the system, and want something different. Maybe. I don't know, of course...I've never been there, so I might be talking out of my arse, but the impression I'm getting seems vaguely similar to some of the failures of Labour in the UK, wherein they're seeing parties like UKIP thriving in some of their heartlands because people don't feel they're doing enough.

I think part of the problem as well was the sort of condescending attitude sometimes shown to Bernie supporters after the primary. Granted, the absolute, sensible thing to do was get behind Clinton and rally for her to beat Trump, but anyone who argued that Sanders would've beaten Trump and had a better chance than Hilary was typically characterised as an idealist when it's now looking like it would've either been the case, or he'd have given a much, much closer race than Hilary did.