What is Ole doing!

[Lash]

it shouldn't have been a toss coin though. We had a far better squad then them and yet we ended up on penalties. These things are happening on a regular basis. Villareal, Wolves (they should have annihilated us), Young boys etc. We might be winning games but luck often helped more then it should have done and our tactics are abysmal.

True, it shouldn't have been in the first place, but there are games where that happens to other sides with superior squads. Given it wasn't a draw, but the sitter last night Dzyuba missed should have made it so. It still is an example where it doesn't always work out against shitty stubborn teams, even if you have a supposed master tactician. I think see where we are in the lead up to the Christmas charge vs where we are currently and if we're still seeing these languid performances, the onus is firmly on the manager and the coaching staff.

 

[Pearl's a minger]

Fully expect a win at West ham over the weekend then the rinse repeat cycle starts again. In my humble opinion,ole is not as tactically inept as some would have you believe however, it's glaringly obvious it's a weakness. He's a safety first man and all his talk when taking over about playing on the front foot the mythical "utd way" certainly got lost in translation along the last 3 years. I've said before he lucked in getting this job. No way in a million years if he wasn't a so called legend would he of even been entertained.

 

[2 man midfield]

Fully expect a win at West ham over the weekend then the rinse repeat cycle starts again. In my humble opinion,ole is not as tactically inept as some would have you believe however, it's glaringly obvious it's a weakness. He's a safety first man and all his talk when taking over about playing on the front foot the mythical "utd way" certainly got lost in translation along the last 3 years. I've said before he lucked in getting this job. No way in a million years if he wasn't a so called legend would he of even been entertained.

His tactics are fine when setting us up for a game, and as long as that game unfolds exactly as he planned it to then I really can’t fault him. We’ve seen him get the better of some of the worlds best coaches many times in the last 3 years.

It’s when he has to be reactive though that I think he struggles. Last night is an obvious example, but I’ve lost count of the amount of times when he just hasn’t reacted to what’s happening on the pitch. Late subs, wrong subs, just hoping things improve, not having a plan B, not knowing what to do if a man gets sent off...

 

[Blood Mage]

He has one plan, and that's to hit teams on the counter. Hence why most teams play a low block against us because they know Ole has no other plan other than to let the individual brilliance of our players change the game.

 

[Tincanalley]

His tactics are fine when setting us up for a game, and as long as that game unfolds exactly as he planned it to then I really can’t fault him. We’ve seen him get the better of some of the worlds best coaches many times in the last 3 years.

It’s when he has to be reactive though that I think he struggles. Last night is an obvious example, but I’ve lost count of the amount of times when he just hasn’t reacted to what’s happening on the pitch. Late subs, wrong subs, just hoping things improve, not having a plan B, not knowing what to do if a man gets sent off...

Corr.e.c.t.

 

[Tincanalley]

He has one plan, and that's to hit teams on the counter. Hence why most teams play a low block against us because they know Ole has no other plan other than to let the individual brilliance of our players change the game.

Its like its the good ole days. Ole days, even. Only its not SAF red faced at the presser, but his acolyte and biggest fan. Bit sickening. I do understand the sentiment, truly I do. Love a bit of the rose tinted glasses. But FFS.

 

[Ajr]

He has one plan, and that's to hit teams on the counter. Hence why most teams play a low block against us because they know Ole has no other plan other than to let the individual brilliance of our players change the game.

Low block, individual brilliance, counter attack, plan

 

[Eriku]

Big Sam never got relegated despite always managing shit teams. Ole got relegated after taking over a Cardiff side that pissed the championship & were sitting in about 12th when he got the job. He then proceeded to leave them 17th in the championship before finally getting the axe. Fat Sam is levels above Ole.

Cardiff were in 17th place when he took over.

 

[Hughie77]

Just sack the poor sod, get in another high profile failure then sell all the best players, get in another load of dead wood take another 5 years or so get a decent squad, then get another manager because the high profile one we got was no good, but that guy in Paris is the one, or that guy in Germany, why oh why didn't we get him. Repeat Repeat. Been there in the 70s and 80s.. great ideas. 5 games into a new season.

 

[fergieisold]

Point well & truly missed.

enlighten me.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Just sack the poor sod, get in another high profile failure then sell all the best players, get in another load of dead wood take another 5 years or so get a decent squad, then get another manager because the high profile one we got was no good, but that guy in Paris is the one, or that guy in Germany, why oh why didn't we get him. Repeat Repeat. Been there in the 70s and 80s.. great ideas. 5 games into a new season.

This.

People forget so easy.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Ok. Ole has done much better than many people, including myself, have given him credit for.

Yes he is one of the biggest spending managers in the world, but as we have seen with our previous managers it’s easier to spend big and waste it then it is to spend it and get it right. Is Ole a great transfer genius like SAF or Klopp? no, until the lines of Diallo become regulars then we can say Ole is pretty much a cheque book manager who signs quality players aged 24-28, however he also gets the best out our talented players eg Shaw, Rashford etc.

So Ole has done a great job, he’s built moral, built a great squad arguably the best squad we have had for over a decade. He’s kept us in the CL spots. But I honestly think he’s lack of tactical game play will continue to make us draw games that we should win and his utterly poor in game management will lose us big matches.

He has taken us as far as he can, it will be an utter shame if one of the best squads and most exciting squads we have ever had isn’t allowed to fulfil its full potential because of the managers limitations.

As I said Ole deserves respect. He’s done what Mourinho and LVG failed to do and has built a beautiful foundation for a team that in the right hands can dominate the prem and Europe.

The rebuilding is done and Ole deserves 100% credit for that. But in 2-3 seasons Pogba, Fernandes, Varane, Maguire etc will be 30 and there will be talk of new mini rebuild. Do we really want to waste time only to end up where we’ve been for the past 9 or so years?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

It's clear you've made your mind up, so you're not actually interested in any real objective discussion on it, your just aligning everything that happens with your already held view. Ie after one bad result, further reinforcement of your already held view, when one result isn't the measure of success.

Of course not, but we've had the best window in probably the last decade and I think a fairer assessment on whether we will win trophies is maybe when we have a squad capable of doing so (there's no arguing that's the case now) if he does or not. Yes I think we should have won the EL, but it went down to a coin toss, so I'm willing to believe we potentially can and should go one further this year and win something.

Let me ask you a question. Why do inferior teams out play us so often? Isn’t that down to tactics?

 

[Hughie77]

This.

People forget so easy.

Yep.

 

[NZT-One]

We attack quickly when you can. Get the ball up in their half as soon as you can, as quickly as you can. If you score, fantastic, if not then you've got to have patient build-up play

This part of the quotes is interesting. It describes what we do to great extent. Only thing missing is the patient built-up I guess, but thats probably something that needs definition. I mean, we are patient when we do not do anything at all ^^

Ive never seen us play out from the back. Its side to side and long balls with the occasional forage into midfield by Maguire. If Ole really wanted to play out from the back he wouldnt have 1 midfielder isolated in midfield all the time

I think, the issue here are different understandings of "play out from the back". I agree with the other poster, we do do that, but not for long, as soon as the ball reaches Bruno or Pogba, they seem to be tasked to launch it fast and directly to the strikers. It isn't hoofball, this would be the case, if anybody in the team would just launch it into a striker or something.

I know its Rugby However I listened to a podcast with Brian O'Driscoll ( Irish Rugby player ) last year and he spoke about how teams don't have a plan B they have variations of Plan A. He said the arm chair supporter thinks you can just change everything and it just doesn't work like that ,teams Train and play to specific Targets and game plans they make slight adjustments throughout the game but the plan remains pretty much the same . I think this would apply to Football too we have a game plan and then variation of that plan which possibly doesn't go too far away from what Ole is trying to achieve. I thought it was interesting anyway. Last night we tried to reinforce due to going to 10 men and it went belly up.

I don't know Rugby but I am not sure, how well this can be translated to football. I mean, it also depends on which level of detail you place your "plan". Fergies 07/08 team was able to hit teams on the counter, it was able to punish them at set pieces, had a few elite dribblers and were well capable of holding possession to bait opponents. These could be seen as alternative plans.
On a more detailed level, with specific moves, I guess you are right, there are no capabilities to train players for environments. Which, to me, wouldn't even be a problem. I don't think it is necessary for Ole to reinvent himself and maybe, adding Varane and Ronaldo will make us a weapon at set pieces again which can work as a good source of goals.

However, a topclub needs to be able to adapt to opponents and situations. I have no issue if we go hollywood passes as plan A. But after 70min, please adjust something. And if you concede a red card, don't go fully defensive as the first reaction.

Plan A, plan B, does Solskjaer have a plan and all the other malarkey. On the other hand, the laughs and the shrugging off, pretending that everything is working like clockwork. I have never considered myself an "Ole-inner" or whatever, but seriously, this place has become an echo chamber and both extremes are responsible for it (in general, not directed at you).

To answer your question, no, they don't. To make it even easier, neither did Ferguson. In fact, the biggest compliment you can give Fergie is to say that, during his heyday, he was winning game after game despite the fact that everyone and his dog could tell you how United were going to set up on a football pitch.

What these two did were adjustments to their fundamental philosophies, so that they could deal with the particularities of the PL and the demands of their era. While you can very well argue that Pep has been giving an unlimited credit card at City, he still had to come up with a new structure, the one with the FBs tucking inside and operating as agile/mobile midfielders, to maintain his high-line and push his more creative players further up in the attacking third. You can also argue that Klopp got lucky with Robertson and TAA, but his possession game has improved greatly over the years and his Liverpool side can create overloads everywhere in the attacking half. That's after he spent a couple of years watching his team's performances deteriorating in the second half of the season, simply because there was no fuel left in the tank. They spent the money, true enough, but they also found working solutions to their problems. And, frankly, isn't that why the best managers in the world are being paid the big salaries for?

The new sensation on the Caf is the defensive midfielder. As if signing Rice would change the fact that we have only one player, Luke Shaw, that can actually move the ball forward with purpose in the first phase of build-up. As if having a new Carrick would make up for the fact that we don't work hard, off the ball, to win second balls in order to stay high up the pitch and pin the opponent down.

Solskjaer has a system and he also has implemented several, what do they call them... "patterns of play". He's not a stickler for rigid structures, like Pep, and he's also not as gung-ho as Klopp in his approach. There's a flexibility in his way of thinking that can work in our favour (it has in some big games and it has also helped him when he was with his back to the wall), but can become detrimental too. We let Lukaku go (fine with that), spent two seasons utilizing either Martial or Rashford up front, as players who would start centrally and move to the left for others to attack the box, to revert to a system where everyone is trying to find Ronaldo in the box. We say we want to play with a high line, and we break the bank for Maguire. We want to use the wide channels to advance the ball, and we sign a FB that isn't good at that. Then we were crying out for a new CB, and now that we have him, we want Trippier too. What kind of defensive midfielder do we want? A Carrick-like player in a midfield of two means that we'll use the low-block more often than not. But isn't that the type of football that turned Mourinho into a managerial dinosaur? A better version of McT/Fred? This surely must lead to the "3" and the "1", in our 4231, working their socks off without the ball to regain possession and play high octane football in tight spaces, but it's clearly not what we've been seeing on the pitch.

I'll reserve my judgement for the end of the season, but it's not a good sign when, three years into his tenure, when we're bad, we look utterly hopeless on the pitch. He says he wants to play with pace and power and we still spend entire games moving the ball sideways at a snail's pace. That would suggest that is not the absence of a Plan B that's hurting us.

Very good post, completely agree.

You honestly cannot stop Tuchel from talking tactics. He does not preview what he will use before a game, but he is an absolute football nerd who will go on forever about tactics.

About halfway through this interview he talks about why he is using the formation he is using at Chelsea. He often emphasizes the formation is not important, it is the players know what their responsibilities are in attack and defence and that allows them to make decisions on the pitch.

Thats a very good video, I've seen it when it was published, well worth listen to. I also shows, that you don't have to chose between being Pep or LVG if you want to intruduce some level of structure. Clear roles and responsibilities can be a great foundation to built on from.

 

[Lash]

Let me ask you a question. Why do inferior teams out play us so often? Isn’t that down to tactics?

I think there is probably a bit of some of the tactics we employ, but it can't be totally down to tactics, because we also beat inferior teams very often - hence how we came second in the league. I doubt Ole goes, let them get set into two banks of four and play aimless slow passes Infront of those banks and don't bother moving either. Also why do we beat better teams with our tactics too? Are the inferior teams tactical masterminds?

 

[Real Name]

No they don’t. You have to entirely missed the point. Why does it have to be Ole is great or Ole is a PE teacher? Why can’t we just call it what it is, Ole is decent, but he’s not good enough.

I brought up those 3 managers because those are our title rivals & my point was we are going to be hindered in the title race because we have a vastly inferior manager to our rivals.

Your point is the same in every thread you post in. Every one of them. Even in this thread where we discuss his tactics. There are about 8 other threads in which you can vent your frustrations with Ole and point that he's inferior to Klopp, Tuchel and Pep if it needs repeating cause we heard that 100 times already.

 

[Real Name]

It is not just class of 92, there's Rio, Hargreaves and Evra … all of them reap the benefit of their association with United, and continue with their circus. With absolute zero benefit for the club, but it seems that they all are influential enough to affect the club negatively.

Tell me, how do they affect the club negatively and do they speak about Ole only in a positive manner. Cause it seems to me you're making things up?

 

[Jibbs]

Tell me, how do they affect the club negatively and do they speak about Ole only in a positive manner. Cause it seems to me you're making things up?

By bigging Ole up, by ignoring his shortcomings as manager, by constantly keeping the expectations low that United is not ready to compete for the league and Ole needs to be supported more.
How much more does he need to be supported? What has he done to warrant that? What improvement has he brought to the side?

 

[Real Name]

By bigging Ole up, by ignoring his shortcomings as manager, by constantly keeping the expectations low that United is not ready to compete for the league and Ole needs to be supported more.
How much more does he need to be supported? What has he done to warrant that? What improvement has he brought to the side?

I bet you have few examples to back your claims. I'm especially interested in 'keeping the expectations low' part.

 

[Jibbs]

I bet you have few examples to back your claims. I'm especially interested in 'keeping the expectations low' part.

I bet if you were not living in a cave you and watching pre and post match "analysis" and social media, you would know.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Out of curiosity, do Pep have a plan b? Does Klopp have one? If so, what is their plan b?

Pep has no plan B so to speak. But his teams work like a machine constantly taking posession and passing and passing, even when things in final 3rd are not happening.

 

[devilish]

True, it shouldn't have been in the first place, but there are games where that happens to other sides with superior squads. Given it wasn't a draw, but the sitter last night Dzyuba missed should have made it so. It still is an example where it doesn't always work out against shitty stubborn teams, even if you have a supposed master tactician. I think see where we are in the lead up to the Christmas charge vs where we are currently and if we're still seeing these languid performances, the onus is firmly on the manager and the coaching staff.

Sure but its happens to us far more then it should. Let's face it but most of the time our game is quite frankly not good enough. We do get the 3 points because of some individual brilliance or down to luck (ex against Wolves were their strikers simply refused to score) but we all know that we're not good enough.

 

[Real Name]

I bet if you were not living in a cave you and watching pre and post match "analysis" and social media, you would know.

Just as I thought.

 

[Real Name]

Cardiff were in 17th place when he took over.

Ups, doesnt fit the agenda.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Not sure about his tactics, but when things are not going our way, our players enter into a strange "can't even pass to the player next to me" mode. Has happened so often. It is so strange.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I'm fine with him managing as long as we have some competent coaches around him. One of his coaches is Martyn Pert who failed with him at Cardiff, another is Mark Dempsey who was his assistant manager at Molde and Cardiff and then we have McKenna, Carrick, Fletcher and Ed Ramsey who are quite young coaches.

 

[Lash]

Sure but its happens to us far more then it should. Let's face it but most of the time our game is quite frankly not good enough. We do get the 3 points because of some individual brilliance or down to luck (ex against Wolves were their strikers simply refused to score) but we all know that we're not good enough.

I think the individual brilliance shtick is a bit overdone. You could say the same about Aston Villa Vs Chelsea, it was mainly down to moments of brilliance of Lukaku and Kovacic, plus Mendy having a blinder. Ole sets up the team to allow our best players to have freedom to express, but I agree the way we set up can be counteracted too easily at times and when we stagnate in a game, the whole teams levels drop.

 

[lex talionis]

Another Ole WTF thread. Nice!

 

[Kush]

It is not just class of 92, there's Rio, Hargreaves and Evra … all of them reap the benefit of their association with United, and continue with their circus. With absolute zero benefit for the club, but it seems that they all are influential enough to affect the club negatively.

This isn't really true. Hargreaves often appears for PL production, and he's been very consistent in saying, this squad is good enough to be gunning for winning all the competitions they are in, nevermind PL. Each of Rio, Evra and Scholes have said, Ole has to win something this season.

Only one who does mental gymnastics around Ole is Neville. But, he's a moron and someone who hasn't been worth listening to for few years now. For the rest of the ex-Utd players, most of them are consistent in demand for a silverware this season.

 

[croadyman]

Give the team to ronaldo

This picture says it all about just how much of a joke our coaching staff really are doesn't it

 

[Zoo]

This picture says it all about just how much of a joke our coaching staff really are doesn't it

Except it doesn’t. Ronaldo was still pissed that he didn’t get a penalty and got up to moan to the ref when their player who was on a yellow was allowed to carry on fouling. The picture says feck all.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

This picture says it all about just how much of a joke our coaching staff really are doesn't it

Get a grip of yourself man, this is ridiculous.

 

[croadyman]

I refuse to believe this squad is not good enough to win either EPL or even CL. United has the most squad depth of all teams, yet we have a PE teacher for a manager. Compare him with Pep, Klopp and Tuchel and it becomes evidently clear this guy wouldn't win a thing with prime Xavi and Iniesta in the side.
His fanboys and class of 92 friends in media will still big him up and shift the blame elsewhere. I wish United board had the acumen and decisiveness of Chelsea.

Yeah so do I as well and shouldn't be waiting in the hope of getting in the top 4 as is always the case

 

[croadyman]

Get a grip of yourself man, this is ridiculous.

No the ridiculous one is that guy who has been in charge since December 2018 and sorry not going to just blindly back him

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

I'm pissed off with the man because not for the first time he doesn't have a positive response to the opposition changes. Its bollocks and he should know better.

He needs to be careful because the boys might see him in a different light soon and the job might get too big too quickly for him. If he looses the dressing room he's fcuked and he's out.

 

[croadyman]

There is no other way to describe a man completely out of his depth and his loyalist supporters blinded by his love.
This is a guy who couldn't have landed a job in Championship on his own merit, got the reins of one of the biggest clubs in world on a platter.

Even you and I wouldn't do much worse with the talent at his disposal.

Fair play on having the guts to say it

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I'm fine with him managing as long as we have some competent coaches around him. One of his coaches is Martyn Pert who failed with him at Cardiff, another is Mark Dempsey who was his assistant manager at Molde and Cardiff and then we have McKenna, Carrick, Fletcher and Ed Ramsey who are quite young coaches.

Mark Dempsey isn't with the first team anymore. He took a role with the academy.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

And if we don't teach West Ham a lesson then OGS can start counting the days till he's up and out of here.

It's not just once we've lost the game because of a tactical error but a number of times. We need Scotty back asap to pin the team together at the centre.

 

[Edgio]

This whole “he doesn’t have tactics” “PE teacher” malarkey just proves how entitled and hypercritical the modern fan has become, confidently stating that a man with a UEFA license “cannot coach” whilst sitting at home with a beer in one hand and a newspaper full of chips in the other, not knowing tactics if it hit them upside the head.

individual brilliance when we win - can’t be Ole’s tactics, has to be individuals when we win. But don’t talk to me about individual errors when we lose, because in that situation it must be ole’s fault

Agree 100%