We also need to buy Kevin de Bruyne
What is our problem?
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Playing too cautiously. Let the shackles off the players and see the benefits.
Thats a good point.
I honestly can't remember. During the Fergie days our scouts found the likes of Chicharito, Da Silva twins amongst others. Our current scouts must have the easiest job ever.
We're no where close to being a Ferguson team. His teams would run through brick walls to win, and they always had leaders.
I think it’s great. A fresh perspective.
I’m not talking pinnacle Fergie teams, he created well oiled machines that put some teams to the sword, ground out results for periods, had crappy cup matches against lower league sides and had young players who were equally frustrating and exciting. This side has a lot in common with Fergie sides of 2002-2005 and 2010-2013. Take City out of the equation and look at where this side is.
But he is the CEO of the company he should fire all those players or giving them a real warning that they will not be able to be in the office any more if that's the case. I can name 5 or maybe 6 players in this squad who have to go and they will never be a Manchester United quality.
Cant you just sensor the word for a while until the bum fest dies down
Team is not cohesive.
We won this competition last year with a lesser team. You win some and you lose some. The fundamentals are there, patience required.
This.
And put everything about them in to one thread. Sick of seeing multiple city threads clogging up the main page.
This. It's the manager's job to motivate the players and make them perform to the best of their abilities.
Get rid from at least 5 players, get 2-3 ball control players who can pass the f ball.
We need to attack as a unit. How many times today did we see cohesive movement like Bristol had before their first goal? On paper Shaw Martial and Pogba should be a devastating left side, but on several occasions today, they seemed like they had never played together before. Martial coming towards the ball, while Shaw cut inside, and Pogba just dribble towards them. And our right side were even worse.
With other top teams you can change four or five players, but you still recognise the team, they just have a change in quality or make small tweeks to their style. If we change four or five players, we're an entire new team attacking in a completely new way. When the players have a good day, that gives us unpredictabilty, but when they have a bad day, we get matches like today.
With other top teams you can change four or five players, but you still recognise the team, they just have a change in quality or make small tweeks to their style. If we change four or five players, we're an entire new team attacking in a completely new way. When the players have a good day, that gives us unpredictabilty, but when they have a bad day, we get matches like today.
We don't know our... / We haven't got a... best eleven.
Somebody mentioned attitude and I think that's right to a degree. I think our team has some pretty damning mentality problems.
Not knowing what it means to play for Manchester United. And what I mean by that is:
- Most players are new and have been brought by different coaches in those past chaotic years
- Doesn't feel like there is a true captain/leader so there is nobody to wake up the squad up
Imo this is what makes United inconsistent. Team is not cohesive as the foundation is not strong enough yet and it doesn't seem there is anyone who is capable of raising the players level yet (you can say coach plays an important role here but it is not only up to him too)
Today against Bristol is a good example. It is not like the squad lined up didn't have enough quality to win, but which player had the "No way we are losing this match, what the heck teammate?" attitude?
- Most players are new and have been brought by different coaches in those past chaotic years
- Doesn't feel like there is a true captain/leader so there is nobody to wake up the squad up
Imo this is what makes United inconsistent. Team is not cohesive as the foundation is not strong enough yet and it doesn't seem there is anyone who is capable of raising the players level yet (you can say coach plays an important role here but it is not only up to him too)
Today against Bristol is a good example. It is not like the squad lined up didn't have enough quality to win, but which player had the "No way we are losing this match, what the heck teammate?" attitude?
Nowhere near. Not even close.
Our problem is simple. I don’t even understand the debate:
We have two top draw players, a couple of “good” ones, and a swath of “decent to shit” players.
That is; the talent is not nearly there.
We are 3-4 top draw players off being a real team. But that is quite literally hundreds of millions. A top attacker like a Dybala would cost £150m or so.
This is my take on it too but coupled with the fact we don't know our best formation basically works in tandem
There's a few issues I think.
- Lack of enough top quality players. Too reliant on promising youngsters who are still young. Been saying it a lot, but when Ronaldo and Rooney were developing, they had Giggs, Scholes, Van Nistelrooy, Keane, Solskjaer, Saha as part of the midfield and attack. Not to mention we played a very attacking style and had the greatest manager ever in charge. Look at Rashford and Martial the last 2.5 seasons that they've been first team players at United (2.5 for martial, 2 for rashford). Who have they had to look up to? Last season they had Ibrahimovic and Pogba, but now it's just Pogba. And Pogba has been absent for most of this season. So it means that our game play is incredibly reliant on what are basically 2 u21 players who often compete for the same position, but are also probably not being played in their best position (up top). So that's the biggest reason for me as to why we're disjointed and inconsistent going forward.
- Mourinho's attacking system not really bringing the best out of our set of players.
- Some players just not being good enough or not suiting each other (for the wide players we have, and squad in general, I don't think Lukaku is the type of striker that suits them too well).
- Playing players out of position, a kind of lopsided attack, where our only threat from the right side is our fullback, while on the left is where we kind load up our attacking play, but little through the middle when we don't use a 3-5-2.
honestly I think we are a joke of a club since Fergie left.....
to go from that kind of dominant leadership to the buffoons who followed has left the club in a bit of a mess.....
Fergie left as a champion but he left an aging team with key players like RVP, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes coming towards the end
we let Fergie and Gill leave together which left us in a mess in the Moyes era - transfer policy was a disaster and Fellaini and a fat contract for Rooney were all we had to show for it
Van Gaal realistically was a massive mistake, we discovered Jorge Mendes and spent a fortune buying players who were over priced, were average and didn't really want to play for us - a complete change of system under Van Gaal and the shedding of many very good players like Evans/Nani/Chicha/Kagawa/Rafael/Fletcher who were all replaced by likes of Schneiderlein, Schweinsteiger, Memphis who were poorer versions
a new manager in Mourinho and another style of play. the buying of big players without any real thought to a style of play or tactic. Under Mourinho we've been extremely negative at time s and performances have been well below par. The answer seems to be to throw money at it and the performances lately have been unacceptable given what we've spend
in sum at the minute we;
- lack a strategic direction a DoF gives you
- have a series of managers who bought a number of players who don't seem to get to any one system
- have a current manager who has an under performing team and an inability to organise an attack
- with a lack of improvement from c coaching we will throw money at issue
- players regularly getting outplayed by teams- Bristol City deserved winners tonight
-too reliant on Pogba/Martial doing something special
all in the shadow of rivals who are run fantastically well
to go from that kind of dominant leadership to the buffoons who followed has left the club in a bit of a mess.....
Fergie left as a champion but he left an aging team with key players like RVP, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes coming towards the end
we let Fergie and Gill leave together which left us in a mess in the Moyes era - transfer policy was a disaster and Fellaini and a fat contract for Rooney were all we had to show for it
Van Gaal realistically was a massive mistake, we discovered Jorge Mendes and spent a fortune buying players who were over priced, were average and didn't really want to play for us - a complete change of system under Van Gaal and the shedding of many very good players like Evans/Nani/Chicha/Kagawa/Rafael/Fletcher who were all replaced by likes of Schneiderlein, Schweinsteiger, Memphis who were poorer versions
a new manager in Mourinho and another style of play. the buying of big players without any real thought to a style of play or tactic. Under Mourinho we've been extremely negative at time s and performances have been well below par. The answer seems to be to throw money at it and the performances lately have been unacceptable given what we've spend
in sum at the minute we;
- lack a strategic direction a DoF gives you
- have a series of managers who bought a number of players who don't seem to get to any one system
- have a current manager who has an under performing team and an inability to organise an attack
- with a lack of improvement from c coaching we will throw money at issue
- players regularly getting outplayed by teams- Bristol City deserved winners tonight
-too reliant on Pogba/Martial doing something special
all in the shadow of rivals who are run fantastically well
Is this your first cup match against a lower league side or something? I can think of some absolutely dire performances over the years. Leeds and Exeter spring to mind. I didn’t see anyone running through walls those days.
Yeah, it really stands out too. It looks like a bunch of random players picked to play with each other. It's not just this game too, been this way for a while.
Fergie did put out weaker teams than what we had out today, but I agree overall, Fergie didn't take the cups seriously. Difference was that he were either top of the league or close to it. Cups matter more these days, we need to win things and build on last season.
Because we don't have a standard formation that normally adds some cohesion; at least we can practice some basic moves.
With the points we’ve accumulated we’d be top or thereabouts in any other season but this.
Not having it, I've seen this team play at home, and still play without the intention to score. Never saw that under Sir Alex, even during our transition years or poorer moments.
All ifs and buts, but I believe Fergie would rise to the challenge of this City team and would be much closer. Of course, we have no way of knowing. I just don't think a Fergie lead United would be out of it in December.
Not to mention that if Fergie had spent the half a billion pounds we have over the last 4 years, we'd probably be an amazing team with a clear, attacking game plan.
1. Lack of real leaders
2. A few average players in the squad who are just happy to pick up their excessive wage and be complete bottle jobs
3. Like last season we're still missing too many chances and it's costing us
4. We need a world class number 10
5. Non existent service into Lukaku/attacking players
2. A few average players in the squad who are just happy to pick up their excessive wage and be complete bottle jobs
3. Like last season we're still missing too many chances and it's costing us
4. We need a world class number 10
5. Non existent service into Lukaku/attacking players
I don't understand all the sudden underrating of Fergie on here. He would find a way, he always did.
It took him 6 years to sort the side out when he took over and the competition was nothing like as strong.
The entire squad was a mess, we’ve come a long long way already. Another window and we will be right on track.
Mourinho has spent £300m by the way. The only side ahead of us was in much better shape to begin with and has spent another third on top of that.
Which explains your problem. Your identity departed with him. Maybe his reign coincided with an abundance of players easily capable of buying into his method, or he was able to convince them of it even if they were inferior.
Clearly the latter isn't true, as you were always well stocked with quality players. Right now you're down on them, and lacking the inspiration to elevate what you have to the level required. That sits firmly on Mourinho's shoulders. His bedding-in period has long expired, and what he's showing subsequently isn't enough, whether in terms of motivation or coaching.
We hired a manager who was never good enough for our level. Then we hired a manager who's tactics have been proven to have been outdated for eons. Then we hired a manager who's the direct opposite of our clubs philosophy. Plus in recent years isn't looking like the tactical mastermind he was once seen as. What could go wrong?
We build sustained success through our ability to develop young players into world stars. Now our young players are going backwards if anything. We play attacking football, now we're a pragmatic side that camps on the edge of our box at the first sign of a quality side. These are huge parts of the club and we just ditched them to do the final part of our club philosophy, that's fo win, we aren't winning any big trophy any time soon so we've sold out for nothing.
Let's get back to basics, get back to what our club is all about and then we'll see where that takes us. When Sir Alex came in and rebuild the club after charlatan after charlatan had come in post Sir Matt destroying the club, he focused on getting back to the basics of what once made the club great. He then managed to do so and now we're falling in the same trap of trying formulas that just don't work for us. Sir Matt spoke a long time ago about how managers who fear losing are destroying the game, can't see how we'd be happy with a manager like that at the helm.
We build sustained success through our ability to develop young players into world stars. Now our young players are going backwards if anything. We play attacking football, now we're a pragmatic side that camps on the edge of our box at the first sign of a quality side. These are huge parts of the club and we just ditched them to do the final part of our club philosophy, that's fo win, we aren't winning any big trophy any time soon so we've sold out for nothing.
Let's get back to basics, get back to what our club is all about and then we'll see where that takes us. When Sir Alex came in and rebuild the club after charlatan after charlatan had come in post Sir Matt destroying the club, he focused on getting back to the basics of what once made the club great. He then managed to do so and now we're falling in the same trap of trying formulas that just don't work for us. Sir Matt spoke a long time ago about how managers who fear losing are destroying the game, can't see how we'd be happy with a manager like that at the helm.
The biggest problem we have is our squad options for resting players are just not that good. Our main lineup is very good bar one or 2 players, but the bench and squad options are really poor and it shows every time they play together. We have a big squad, but about 16 good players max here imo. As long as we have a main lineup there won't be much problems, problems arise when we got injures and start to see those squad options more and more.
We lack brave quality players and we don’t play with modern tactics. Mourinho isn’t the man.