Whatever happens we have a nest of vipers in the dressing room

Steve 007

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I’m siding with the vipers.
Maguire and Shaw were two of the best players at the Euro’s when playing in a well organised team. Pogba is a world beater for France, Varane has been one of the best defenders in the world for 10 years. Bruno is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, all the biggest clubs in Europe wanted VDB, Sancho is considered a generational talent, we have Cavani and Ronaldo. This is a squad that should be competing but the performances, coaching and attitude is not there. I love Ole and his legacy of 99 will never be forgotten but as a manager he needs to go.
 
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padzilla

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It’s not the 90s anymore - players have a lot of clout these days. It’s also strange how most of these players seem ok on international duty or at previous clubs. Maybe they don’t want to waste the peak years of their career under a coach like Ole?
That's a good point about international football but that's also a different beast entirely, Shaw and Maguire, for example, play as part of a back six or seven most games, it's hard to look bad when the team is set up so defensively.
There is no doubt Ole is not up to the job, it's yet another insult we've had to endure under the Glazers but the problem keeps cropping up regardless of who is in charge for the past decade now really.
 

Red_toad

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
Sold a dream by a club and manager, then mismanaged terribly. Yeah bunch of vipers for daring to go on social media to connect with fans who give a crap about that sort of thing….
jose threw the club under a bus, so it’s a bad example you gave there.
I‘d say the players are hurting right now and need some direction from Ole and co. We shall see if they get it or if we carry on with the let them express themselves whilst we get overrun all over the pitch.
 

westmeath

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Players who would passively accept a substandard coaching team would not be doing our club any favours. They have a duty to agitate for change, especially when the coach’s deficiencies are as obvious as Ole’s.
 

sullydnl

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Also if we did have a nest of vipers who need dismantling then it wouldn't say much for the quality of the job Ole did rebuilding the squad. But we don't.
 

Von Mistelroum

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So the world can see that the manager is way out of his depth but if the players who are actually people who can do something about it, dare to utter a word to this effect they are snakes? At the end of the day they will be privy to his ‘tactics’ and how he’s working better than anyone else so if they feel that he’s not doing the job well then why wouldn’t they say? Would most people accept working under an incompetent manager if it meant that they wouldn’t be able to achieve any of their goals?
 

Real Name

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
Just them? Maybe 10 more players while you're at it?
What should they say, we were horrible? And they should be out cause they wrote something on the social media. Doesnt make sense. Let them have a good manager and see them shine instead of shifting 10 players every time a new manager comes.
 

smi11ie

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The only player that I suspect is overly selfish is Pogba. Mino always opens his big mouth right before big matches. I would be happy to see Pogba leave on a free. The rest of the squad seem like a straight bunch.

One point on Ole. On the surface he looks like a nice guy but I have my doubts. His treatment of top internationals in Bailly, VDB and Cavani has been questionable. Just because he smiles, has a youthful face and is polite does not make him a nice person.

He has shown himself incapable of dealing with a large squad and coaching them properly. I even heard that he doesn't oversee coaching. What kind of manager doesn't oversee coaching and intruct the team from the sidelines? Back to FM for Ole and I don't feel one bit of sympathy for him.
 

Mb194dc

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Conte is a great manager, though he's a disciplinarian in the mould of Capello. The kind of guy who will ban ketchup from the dining room.

Certainly be interesting to see how the Utd squad react if you do end up with him as manager eventually.
 

dove

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Tend to happen when the results are shite. They know very well that with Ole in charge we have no chance of winning anything and that he is a crap coach.
 

padzilla

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The only player that I suspect is overly selfish is Pogba. Mino always opens his big mouth right before big matches. I would be happy to see Pogba leave on a free. The rest of the squad seem like a straight bunch.

One point on Ole. On the surface he looks like a nice guy but I have my doubts. His treatment of top internationals in Bailly, VDB and Cavani has been questionable. Just because he smiles, has a youthful face and is polite does not make him a nice person.

He has shown himself incapable of dealing with a large squad and coaching them properly. I even heard that he doesn't oversee coaching. What kind of manager doesn't oversee coaching and intruct the team from the sidelines? Back to FM for Ole and I don't feel one bit of sympathy for him.
I would say at this point it might do United more harm than good if Pogba signs another contract with us. He clearly is not a consistent performer and has attitude issues as his agent is briefing the media every second day, I know people will say that's what agents do, but they only act on the approval of their players - Zlatan had the same agent and there was never anything like that while he was here.
 

Swarup

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We can only guess what happens behind the scene but there are players like Bruno, Ronaldo etall who are visibly upset on the pitch, when we do simple mistakes like leaving so much space behind Shaw for Salah. That has everything to do with tactics. So there might be vipers in the dressing room but there are players who dont deserve this coaching staff. Poor-no-tactic-manager and his coaching staff....
 

Ikon

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I said this before, Solskjaer must be making false promises to players such as Lingard, Cavani, Donny, Bailly and others about playing time to get those players to stay, but then still not using them.
These are going to be very disgruntled players, who will feel that they have been lied to by Solskjaer, and this will create a problem in the dressing room that will bite Solskjaer in the arse.

I do wonder though if Ronaldo is the catalyst, he seems very unlikely to keep quiet if he feels anything is not up to standard, whether that be the Manager, Coaches, Players, Tactics, and if that is the case, he will have plenty of criticisms to fling about here.

But I feel that if there is any toxicity, then Solskjaer has brought this upon himself.
 

GazTheLegend

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@padzilla
No we don't. Which of our players would you class as a VIPER exactly, anyway. What is a Viper, as per your definition. A player that leaks things to the media? Maybe Paul Pogba. A player that doesn't try as hard as they could? We have serial winners and finalists throughout our team. We have good players and bad players and a manager that hasn't been good enough to lead them, that's all.

You can hardly blame Sancho, vdb, Ronaldo and Pogba for being unhappy. But keeping them happy is the managers job. We keep signing players on big money then ruining their careers somehow.
 

padzilla

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Please don't use silly nicknames.
Lingard seems to have been particularly fecked over by Comical Ole - he went to West Ham, tore it up, was given limited chances by us and looked like a renewed player and was immediately discarded because he wasn't part of Comical Ole's cabal of favourites, either the manager is blinded by the bigger names in the dressing room or simply doesn't know what he is doing.
 

Jaxa

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I really don't believe this,

Players being frustrated with managers is nothing knew, Jesus a whole load couldn't stand SAF and in Ole's case sure probably Donny, Bailly & Lingard have a bit of annoyance towards Ole right now and they all have a point tbh but you can go to every team and find the same situation,

I firmly believe Pogba, Cavani, Bruno, Rash, Ronaldo etc all like Ole and want to succeed with him but recently are just getting frustrated with the results and the tactics they are being given and can you blame them? These are Chanpions League, World Cup, PL , La Liga, Series A winners with loads of experience so if the coaching is amateur they are definitely noticing and pissed off with it, i would be too.
 

RedChisel

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The players have given Ole 3 years to get his shit together and have some sort of tactical plan and it's failed miserably. It's not like they decided after 5 minutes that he wasn't for them. They've stuck by him until now but it's clear he hasn't got what it takes at this level.

Ole has spent millions and a good portion of this squad are his players. This is in no way the same squad that wanted rid of Van Gaal or Mourihno.
 

Pughnichi

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Surprisingly I agree when Micah Richards said that he’s previously been afforded an easy ride because the squad wasn’t good enough. But now with the talent we have, certainly at the top end of the pitch, we can/should expect more…and that’s on Ole and his coaching team.

but (and for once MOTD analysis was spot on) the issues are around organisation, roles and instruction. For most of the goals conceded, everyone seemingly acting on impulse and doing what they thought independently was the right decision. Not a single element of working without the ball as a team. That’s shameful
 

Caesar2290

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
Who are these mysterious "they"? All the managers did a clearout of the deadwood. The only players to play under all of them are DDG, Mata and... Jones.
 
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Strelok

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I was a big Ole in but tbf if there is imo he surely deserves that.
 

Zoo

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Elite players want to compete at the very top. That needs an elite manager.
 

UnitedFire

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It’s not magic, see Lampard > Tuchel or Rafa > Zidane.

A competent manager will enhance the strengths of this squad whilst hiding the weaknesses (DM), our current crop play 4-2-4 and do the exact fecking opposite.
As a whole I agree. SAF found a way with some truly terrible midfields, however the competition is extreme now and you can't afford to have the number of bad games that SAF would have.

It's easy to look at SAF's time with rose tinted glasses, but the consistency (winning pretty much every game) and points were not up there with the highest achieving Prem teams in recent years.

The midfield is more essential now than ever and it's always been essential. More teams stack their midfields with quality to dominate games. Ole seems to have completely missed this point and persisted with the best combo he could find of a bad bunch.

Agreed Fernandes should play deeper, but I don't think Ole is a million miles off of doing the best he can with a bad bunch in midfield. It was working last year relatively consistently, albeit not enough to win the big games.

Would Tuchel/Rafa/ Zidane do better at the moment....probably because its not working right now. Could any of them have done better in the last two years...I doubt it. And do I think we have a midfield capable of competing for the title....it's become apparent that seems quite unlikely. I'd love to be proved wrong.
 
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Would Tuchel/Rafa/ Zidane do better at the moment....probably because its not working right now. Could any of them have done better in the last two years...I doubt it. And do I think we have a midfield capable of competing for the title....it's become apparent that seems quite unlikely. I'd love to be proved wrong.
Of course they’d have been able to do better than 66 points, then 74 points and zero trophies for that spend. I mean, Mourinho did exactly that before Ole man, more trophies, more points :lol:

As for the midfield, you must’ve missed us just being humiliated by Hendersen, Keita and Milner. Good managers, like Fergie and Klopp, even in today’s game make their system work.
 

Fortitude

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If anything, it's the total opposite: our players, for the most part, are trying their hearts out, and even on Sunday came out full of incoherent bluster backed up by zero structure or planning.

Running around aimlessly with no real idea of what the men next to you are supposed to be doing, and doing that as best you can, is both exhausting and completely demoralising, which is why once our little passion bubble is popped, we capitulate mentally as the 'team' on the pitch come to the collective conclusion that they have no idea how they'll get out of the current pickle.

When matched with players of similar ability who are in total unison as a team, it becomes apparent that you're heart and effort isn't going to be enough, because, well, the opposition have as much, or even more conviction and collective sense of purpose to your team. Again, a juncture where heads do - and should - drop.

Our players have every right to be exasperated because they know full well that with good coaching and management as well as tactical instruction, they can compete. Most of them know that much from their international teams, where even a dire manager like Southgate has a plan and structure that will be stuck to giving every player a defined role to live or die by.

Someone like Southgate protects his defensive players and leaves his midfielders, but attackers, in particular, with less support. At least, with him, it's all by design despite iy being a horrid, cowardly way to play with such an impressive set of attackers.

Ole has not given any part of the team a reason to believe in his plan or tactical output. Our defenders are lost at sea, with no signs of improvement - particularly evidenced on defensive set pieces; our midfield is arguably as bad as anything in the league, and relative to outlay (p4p), the worst in the league and our attack is reliant on magic rather than any concerted plan, which is why the majority of our goals are the pick of a round rather than 'effortless' tap-in jobs of sides who rack up cricket scores on a regular basis (see City and Liverpool). Our players are running in treacle because of how unprepared we are to be out there against all these teams who are, without question prepared to match us for effort.

On top of the above, Ole's utilisation of the squad is custom-made to cause upset and divide as anyone outside his select few players will see, time and time and time again, those same players 'rewarded' for poor performances with the game after game whilst they are left either as barely used subs, or totally ignored, which naturally causes discontent, and theoretically, disharmony.

'Vipers' would have flooded and inundated the media with stories from behind the scenes weeks ago; doubts about the coaching and management will have been there long before the mauling on Sunday.

If anything, Ole's lucky we don't have the viruses some of our fanbase like to suggest we do because, if we did, Ole could have been walking on hot coals a good while before now. What we're more likely seeing now is an outpouring of bottled emotions and thoughts, not some machiavellian scheming with our very own Little Finger and council. It's perfectly natural in any workplace for the disgruntled to speak up once the floodgates of discontent are out in the open.

There's zero reason for the players to go down with this ship - almost to a man, an essay can be written on how or why each of them has been let down by what we've set out to do. Maguire, for example, I'm almost certain isn't fully fit, yet he's been rushed into the team and is getting roasted for his performances. I'm sure of the same with McTominay. I'm not a big fan of either, but it seems clear to me neither of them is right, but are out there in the spine of the team because Ole feels he cannot be without them. There's no need to go on as this isn't an exercise is slaughtering our staff, rather, to highlight that so many players in the squad could have fed the press a long time before now, but did nothing of the sort.

This culmination is simply pressure bursting pipes, at which point something has got to give.
 

devilish

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
This is to be expected. The top players know what good coaching and management is having played with top clubs and top national teams. They wouldn't be happy coming to United and being managed & coached by Mr Cardiff, the guy we picked from Spurs U18, the other guy whom we picked from Chelsea's U23 and the rest of Mates FC. Taking Phelan aside and our coaching staff looks like a kinder garden. Meanwhile Ole kept the likes of Mata, Matic, Lingard, VDB, Bailly and co at United promising them a fair crack of the whip. Turned out that he would rather play Maguire and Rashford despite having zero match fitness then them.

I am not in favor of Conte. However the only good news about him being around is that he will bring his own men. That means people like Vanoli, Stellini and his own brother Gianluca. The likes of Mckenna, Carrick, Clegg, Ramsay and Pert can go 'coach' Molde with him.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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As a whole I agree. SAF found a way with some truly terrible midfields, however the competition is extreme now and you can't afford to have the number of bad games that SAF would have.

It's easy to look at SAF's time with rose tinted glasses, but the consistency (winning pretty much every game) and points were not up there with the highest achieving Prem teams in recent seasons.
He got 89 pts in his last 2 seasons, in 12-13 we won the league in March with what, 6 games to spare? 7? And there was nothing to play for by that stage after the Cakir debacle in the CL so we didn’t even try to go after the then point record of 95.

The underrating of Fergie needs to stop. The man has his faults but there was nothing to suggest that he wouldn’t be able to compete with the current crop of teams in the PL. He never failed to rise up to the challenge and saw off every competitor in the league during his time here.
 

Highfather_24

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My guess?

Bailly, VdB, Matic and Lingard are behind the leaks. Mostly because of their lack of playing time.

Not sure about Ronaldo and Pogba.
 

Bubz27

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Why does the club keep letting it get to this when the writing is on the wall for a long while before?
 

crossy1686

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
There hasn't been leaks for years. When people start asking serious questions, fingers start pointing, Solskjaer has brought this on himself with some questionable decisions and freezing out players (that he bought)
 

Nick7

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All I’ve seen is players are losing faith and don’t think the tactics are up to snuff. They’re hardly downing tools.
 

Flytan

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The players have shielded ole for years. Even the leaks are borderline defending him about being a great guy. They're just leaking what most sane fans already knew, that he is trying to learn on the job
 

Kopral Jono

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If anything, it's the total opposite: our players, for the most part, are trying their hearts out, and even on Sunday came out full of incoherent bluster backed up by zero structure or planning.

Running around aimlessly with no real idea of what the men next to you are supposed to be doing, and doing that as best you can, is both exhausting and completely demoralising, which is why once our little passion bubble is popped, we capitulate mentally as the 'team' on the pitch come to the collective conclusion that they have no idea how they'll get out of the current pickle.

When matched with players of similar ability who are in total unison as a team, it becomes apparent that you're heart and effort isn't going to be enough, because, well, the opposition have as much, or even more conviction and collective sense of purpose to your team. Again, a juncture where heads do - and should - drop.

Our players have every right to be exasperated because they know full well that with good coaching and management as well as tactical instruction, they can compete. Most of them know that much from their international teams, where even a dire manager like Southgate has a plan and structure that will be stuck to giving every player a defined role to live or die by.

Someone like Southgate protects his defensive players and leaves his midfielders, but attackers, in particular, with less support. At least, with him, it's all by design despite iy being a horrid, cowardly way to play with such an impressive set of attackers.

Ole has not given any part of the team a reason to believe in his plan or tactical output. Our defenders are lost at sea, with no signs of improvement - particularly evidenced on defensive set pieces; our midfield is arguably as bad as anything in the league, and relative to outlay (p4p), the worst in the league and our attack is reliant on magic rather than any concerted plan, which is why the majority of our goals are the pick of a round rather than 'effortless' tap-in jobs of sides who rack up cricket scores on a regular basis (see City and Liverpool). Our players are running in treacle because of how unprepared we are to be out there against all these teams who are, without question prepared to match us for effort.

On top of the above, Ole's utilisation of the squad is custom-made to cause upset and divide as anyone outside his select few players will see, time and time and time again, those same players 'rewarded' for poor performances with the game after game whilst they are left either as barely used subs, or totally ignored, which naturally causes discontent, and theoretically, disharmony.

'Vipers' would have flooded and inundated the media with stories from behind the scenes weeks ago; doubts about the coaching and management will have been there long before the mauling on Sunday.

If anything, Ole's lucky we don't have the viruses some of our fanbase like to suggest we do because, if we did, Ole could have been walking on hot coals a good while before now. What we're more likely seeing now is an outpouring of bottled emotions and thoughts, not some machiavellian scheming with our very own Little Finger and council. It's perfectly natural in any workplace for the disgruntled to speak up once the floodgates of discontent are out in the open.

There's zero reason for the players to go down with this ship - almost to a man, an essay can be written on how or why each of them has been let down by what we've set out to do. Maguire, for example, I'm almost certain isn't fully fit, yet he's been rushed into the team and is getting roasted for his performances. I'm sure of the same with McTominay. I'm not a big fan of either, but it seems clear to me neither of them is right, but are out there in the spine of the team because Ole feels he cannot be without them. There's no need to go on as this isn't an exercise is slaughtering our staff, rather, to highlight that so many players in the squad could have fed the press a long time before now, but did nothing of the sort.

This culmination is simply pressure bursting pipes, at which point something has got to give.
Great post.
 

eire-red

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Joking aside though, number one criteria for a new manager should be assurances and a plan from him on how he can best utilise the existing squad. None of this bullshit allowing a manger a tonne of new players & a clear out.
If a manager says he needs a tonne of money, time and a clear out, he’s the wrong guy.
Tuchel has proven if we didn’t know already that good coaching and structure alone can massively improve a squad.
Was just going to post this. Let's for once get a manager who can actually utilise the existing squad, and not some 3 year project being sold to Woodward.

We can't rebuild every time we sack a manager, that just doesn't work anymore.
 

Nytram Shakes

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
I mean sure their form has dropped this season, but Shaw was immense last year, and you saw what the defense was like last year when Maguire was injured towards the end of the season it completely fell apart without Maguire. So you are being more than a little harsh.
 

Ixion

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On top of the above, Ole's utilisation of the squad is custom-made to cause upset and divide as anyone outside his select few players will see, time and time and time again, those same players 'rewarded' for poor performances with the game after game whilst they are left either as barely used subs, or totally ignored, which naturally causes discontent, and theoretically, disharmony.
One thing I constantly see is even if Ole isn't the man to take us forward he has put together this amazing squad ready to challenge yet he doesn't use half of it. So which is it, is the squad amazing or is Ole right not to trust half of them?
 

UnitedFire

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He got 89 pts in his last 2 seasons, in 12-13 we won the league in March with what, 6 games to spare? 7? And there was nothing to play for by that stage after the Cakir debacle in the CL so we didn’t even try to go after the then point record of 95.

The underrating of Fergie needs to stop. The man has his faults but there was nothing to suggest that he wouldn’t be able to compete with the current crop of teams in the PL. He never failed to rise up to the challenge and saw off every competitor in the league during his time here.
If I'm under rating SAF it's not intentional. My point is more even with the genius of SAF I'm not sure this midfield would cut it for SAF.

There is a higher level of squad quality in the competitors now, which isn't to say SAF wouldn't still be the best manager, but I don't think he could do it without continued support to maintain a squad in touching distance of the competition.

Our midfield now is arguably the worst in the Prem.
 

sugar_kane

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It's hard to tell if Ole has lost the first team or the leaks are symptomatic of him alienating an entire swathe of the squad by never giving them an opportunity.

There will always be diversions of opinion behind closed doors, but present in that dressing room environment are guys like Bailly, DVB, Henderson, Telles, Dalot, Lingard who are wasting precious years of their career while the likes of Maguire & McTominay stink out the place and Ole picks them no matter what.

If you're a journalist reaching out to one of these players or their agent/family/friends for a juicy behind the scenes story must be the easiest thing ever right now.
 

LoneStar

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,558
I can see how serial winners like Ronaldo and Varane would feel coming to this. It's just that they have higher standards, which makes total sense. It shows that they have the winning mentality and not just here to get their paychecks.

Who remains from the Jose days anyway? We have martial, Pogba and Shaw who hated Jose. Lingard, McT have always praised him. Rashford has been ambivalent. I can only see Pogba out of these causing issues in the dressing room now.

If your manager is toxic, or if he's utterly incompetent, would you really give your best for him? And if you had the chance , would you really say no to a newer, better manager? Players are just like us at the end of the day. It's impossible to keep up the motivation levels if you know your company is going nowhere.
 

Tincanalley

Turns player names into a crappy conversation
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
10,130
Location
Ireland
Vipers? That’s the boardroom. Nest of threadworms? The Caf.