When will match going fans crack?

[el3mel]

To be fair, relationships with football clubs are ultimately founded on emotion, right? If we care deeply about the club and we want to relate to others and see what others who are on the same train think and feel, and all we see is unceasing negativity, that's bound to make some people feel shitty.

I get that people might have differing reactions, and that people who feel thoroughly exasperated with the insistence on us retaining Ole might feel better when they see they're not alone, but c'mon, a lot of the language used is intolerable. People who are Ole-in constantly have to read claims that they're in a cult, that they're blind, that they have no fecking clue, etc. Top that off with some of the incredibly harsh language used about Ole, who is a club legend and a lovely guy to boot (not saying that's an argument for his not being sacked, mind you), and you get a pretty shitty foruming experience for those on the other side.

Not trying to white-wash the other side, I know Ole-out people get their share of stuff thrown at them too, but to me it seems the Ole-out crowd are far harsher in their language. Whatever you think of Ole, he's not totally clueless and worthless as a manager. Anybody saying that is dealing in black and white and being hyperbolic as feck.

My two cents... I generally won't bother responding much, but I've noticed that you @el3mel give credit where it's due, and do seem happy when we do well, even if it might delay what you think is an inevitable sacking because Ole's failed.

Fair enough. I myself don't like calling names and throwing insults at anyone of different opinion, because it's doesn't really deserve all that at the end. I have been on this forum for 3 years now and the only warning I have got was for a poorly formatted post while I was a newbie. Even if someone insulted me I just put them on the ignore list and move on. There's really no need to keep insulting each other especially when we're a fans group of one club and all want the best for it even if we think in different ways.

And thanks for the last paragraph. Cheers mate.

 

[Eriku]

Fair enough. I myself don't like calling names and throwing insults at anyone of different opinion, because it's doesn't really deserve all that at the end. I have been on this forum for 3 years now and the only warning I have got was for a poorly formatted post while I was a newbie. Even if someone insulted me I just put them on the ignore list and move on. There's really no need to keep insulting each other especially when we're a fans group of one club and all want the best for it even if we think in different ways.

And thanks for the last paragraph. Cheers mate.

No sweat man. Feels good to know some people still treat this as a community, even if there’s a strong rift on the Ole issue

 

[Le Red]

I think it's pretty clear that you don't know much about past protests if you think they didnt gain any transaction. G&G was probably the biggest and most visual protest to ever happen at a PL club. I suggest you go and read up about it.

And the change of tactics has achieved a lot for matchgoers (ticket price reductions, improved atmosphere etc) but like I said before, you wouldn't know much about it since you aren't one. And this is not meant to be a criticism BTW, it's just fact.

Fair enough. Will follow your suggestion and read more about the past protests. But they were different in tone and circunstance. What movement do you think is adequate to the presente status quo?

 

[Le Red]

Expecting the club to be run in a competent manner, especially given the resources we have, is hardly "entitlement". It's absolutely criminal how the entire organization has been mismanaged, at all levels, over the past seven years.

Thanks for saying that. A lot of fans seem to think that a supporter/club relationship is a one-sided thing, where the fans are obliged to give the club all the time, money and love they can spare while the club owes them feck.
I see it differently. The club owes something back to the fans in return, and that is respect for their wish to see the club thrive and entertain.
I could digest the fact that MUFC is not a title winning club much better if I felt the board was serious, and that the lack of success was temporary and circunstancial. That's not the case though.
So yes, the fans of every football club in the world, big or small, are entitled to something, and that is seeing their club being administrated with respect by the people in charge. That hasn't been the case with MUFC for many years.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

So you get positive impact on your life by reading positive things about your beloved club on internet ? I mean we can classify supporters in anyway we like but at the end of the day this will always stay as a sport, sort of "entertainment", not a life changing matter to get either depressed or enthusiastic for reading posts on a football forum. You're honestly taking it way too seriously if you think that.

I used to read this forum as far back as 2009, and I really enjoyed reading what people who were passionate about football had to say. It didn't define my life in a positive way as you suggest, but I enjoyed it. It was entertainment to read an internet football forum, I didn't even need to contribute. People complained then too, they complained when we won the league by 11 points, they complained that SAF was tactically limited, they complained that we didn't sign that midfielder that would take us up a level. None of that really bothered me, there will always be negative people (and sometimes they have well argued points), but on the whole I felt (rightly or wrongly) that people came here because they were passionate about the game, and passionate about United. I just don't often feel that anymore. There are definitely still people here that fit that description, some of them believe Ole might be the right manager right now, some of them don't. Some of them believed in Jose, Louis, and even David Moyes... and others didn't. Now though, it feels as though crowd mentality has turned in a negative way... that's a topic discussed at length on this forum, but frankly, I don't come here to discuss the ripple effect of positivity, or the true meaning of patriotism, or to classify supporters... I come here to talk about football, and specifically the football related to Manchester United. I just don't feel like I get to do that enough anymore, every topic seems to morph into one, and I keep waiting for it to get better with a new manager (the forum, not the football), or after a win... but it doesn't. For me it's not about people expressing negative opinions, they're entitled to do that (this very post is negative)... the issue is that it's becoming inescapable. It's not a matter of how seriously I take this, it might seem melodramatic, but it's more a matter of whether people like me really belong here anymore. I don't need everybody to be positive all the time, but I guess my username is essentially having an existential crisis.

 

[Rood]

Fair enough. Will follow your suggestion and read more about the past protests. But they were different in tone and circunstance. What movement do you think is adequate to the presente status quo?

Have a read of this : https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/glazersout-protests

 

[Sultan]

Match going fan go to support the team. Read up the definition of support. Post mortems usually take place on the return journey home, with mates, or on the internet.

 

[dwd]

Match going fan go to support the team. Read up the definition of support. Post mortems usually take place on the return journey home, with mates, or on the internet.

This is very very true. The journey home has been the most annoying part for some time now.

 

[Tel074]

Why are the board and owners to blame?

I'm not sure if this is a serious question?
The owners are bleeding our club dry hence why we have never once spent the kind of money needed to allow us a chance to get back to City and Liverpool . If they had invested properly with Ferguson in his final years and with the managers since then I'm sure we would be no where near mid table like we are now .

Yes we have spent close to 1 billion or whatever it is but it's never been done in the right way . These Amercians have no interest in us winning leagues and European cups . Obviously it would be better for them if we did but they are making a fortune because we are one of the worlds biggest clubs and they will always make money from us.

Our stadium is becoming a shit hole because it's being neglected. Our owners are totally to blame

 

[Tel074]

That's my point though, I don't see anywhere near reaction against the board by the people who have the more power to do so.
I don't agree with you when you say that things will get better. What evidence do we have of that?

Well firstly we have finally started to get rid of the deadwood that has been at the club . Then it looks like we have started to have a plan with transfers . Things are not perfect but I feel going to games that fans are starting to believe things will get better .

 

[croadyman]

I would definitely attend more games if I wasn't so short of cash at the moment,however I would still feel the same about Ole as I do now.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm not sure if this is a serious question?
The owners are bleeding our club dry hence why we have never once spent the kind of money needed to allow us a chance to get back to City and Liverpool . If they had invested properly with Ferguson in his final years and with the managers since then I'm sure we would be no where near mid table like we are now .

Yes we have spent close to 1 billion or whatever it is but it's never been done in the right way . These Amercians have no interest in us winning leagues and European cups . Obviously it would be better for them if we did but they are making a fortune because we are one of the worlds biggest clubs and they will always make money from us.

Our stadium is becoming a shit hole because it's being neglected. Our owners are totally to blame

I asked why and you just came by with 2 paragraphs of contradiction. They haven’t spent nowhere near to money.. but they spent close to a Billion. They should have invested in Fergie.. well they didn’t and we still wasn’t midtable.

Like if this was a math problem the simple equation 9/10 times would be just get a good manager. But it goes over everyone’s head. Instead people want to make up fairytales of how good life is everywhere else. United should convert itself into a religion. The promise land being new owners and Pastor Ole continuing to tell us we need more offerings to fix our roof.

 

[lysglimt]

I'm not sure if this is a serious question?
The owners are bleeding our club dry hence why we have never once spent the kind of money needed to allow us a chance to get back to City and Liverpool . If they had invested properly with Ferguson in his final years and with the managers since then I'm sure we would be no where near mid table like we are now .

Yes we have spent close to 1 billion or whatever it is but it's never been done in the right way . These Amercians have no interest in us winning leagues and European cups . Obviously it would be better for them if we did but they are making a fortune because we are one of the worlds biggest clubs and they will always make money from us.

Our stadium is becoming a shit hole because it's being neglected. Our owners are totally to blame

we have spent more than enough to be a top-club - we have just spent it the wrong way.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

This notion that you’re a ‘good fan’ if you lap up the dross & awful football Ole has served up leaving us in mid table needs to stop.

You’re actually harming the club by tolerating the lowering standards & ambitions that have now become the norm.

 

[ReddBalls]

People who attend games are infinitely more able to gauge progress and regress at a club than us who watch the games on a screen accompanied by the bias of the commentators and studio experts. At the game you have a complete view of the field all the time, and it is easier to pick up on, for instance, off the ball movement, the relationship between players on the field. Anyone who has ever attended a game knows this.

 

[BlueHaze]

This notion that you’re a ‘good fan’ if you lap up the dross & awful football Ole has served up leaving us in mid table needs to stop.

You’re actually harming the club by tolerating the lowering standards & ambitions that have now become the norm.

But what can they actually do? Imagine mass protest started against the Glazer's and co. They would still remain owners so what are the options? You can forget the match going ones will ever turn against Ole.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

But what can they actually do? Imagine mass protest started against the Glazer's and co. They would still remain owners so what are the options? You can forget the match going ones will ever turn against Ole.

Have some balls, don’t keep singing Ole songs, we look pathetic putting up with this while Spurs & Arsenal actually have standards.

If it’s an awful game then yes boo a little, show you’re true emotions. Don’t just lap it all up & take it- fan reaction can make those at the top think ‘hmm the locals are restless - perhaps we do need a decent manager in charge & to demand better results for the biggest club in England’

Currently the fans are complicit with accepting lowering our place in the football world

 

[BlueHaze]

Have some balls, don’t keep singing Ole songs, we look pathetic putting up with this while Spurs & Arsenal actually have standards.

If it’s an awful game then yes boo a little, show you’re true emotions. Don’t just lap it all up & take it- fan reaction can make those at the top think ‘hmm the locals are restless - perhaps we do need a decent manager in charge & to demand better results for the biggest club in England’

Currently the fans are complicit with accepting lowering our place in the football world

But how would them not singing Ole songs put us in a better position?

You're clutching at straws here. Chants and booing will change nothing but results will. If this disastrous form keeps up Ole will be gone sooner or later. Not much can be done from fans except from mass protests against the owners but as I said not even that would change much. This shit show will carry on until a massive change happens board wise.

 

[Eriku]

People who attend games are infinitely more able to gauge progress and regress at a club than us who watch the games on a screen accompanied by the bias of the commentators and studio experts. At the game you have a complete view of the field all the time, and it is easier to pick up on, for instance, off the ball movement, the relationship between players on the field. Anyone who has ever attended a game knows this.

Very good point. I remember the first time I went to OT to see a match. I was shocked at how easily you could see that, for example, Rooney was thinking 3-4 steps ahead, in a way I never picked up on the TV.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

But how would them not singing Ole songs put us in a better position?

You're clutching at straws here. Chants and booing will change nothing but results will. If this disastrous form keeps up Ole will be gone sooner or later. Not much can be done from fans except from mass protests against the owners but as I said not even that would change much. This shit show will carry on until a massive change happens board wise.

As I said it might make the board see were not all sycophants happy with our lot , facilitating a change in management

 

[Acquire Me]

I used to read this forum as far back as 2009, and I really enjoyed reading what people who were passionate about football had to say. It didn't define my life in a positive way as you suggest, but I enjoyed it. It was entertainment to read an internet football forum, I didn't even need to contribute. People complained then too, they complained when we won the league by 11 points, they complained that SAF was tactically limited, they complained that we didn't sign that midfielder that would take us up a level. None of that really bothered me, there will always be negative people (and sometimes they have well argued points), but on the whole I felt (rightly or wrongly) that people came here because they were passionate about the game, and passionate about United. I just don't often feel that anymore. There are definitely still people here that fit that description, some of them believe Ole might be the right manager right now, some of them don't. Some of them believed in Jose, Louis, and even David Moyes... and others didn't. Now though, it feels as though crowd mentality has turned in a negative way... that's a topic discussed at length on this forum, but frankly, I don't come here to discuss the ripple effect of positivity, or the true meaning of patriotism, or to classify supporters... I come here to talk about football, and specifically the football related to Manchester United. I just don't feel like I get to do that enough anymore, every topic seems to morph into one, and I keep waiting for it to get better with a new manager (the forum, not the football), or after a win... but it doesn't. For me it's not about people expressing negative opinions, they're entitled to do that (this very post is negative)... the issue is that it's becoming inescapable. It's not a matter of how seriously I take this, it might seem melodramatic, but it's more a matter of whether people like me really belong here anymore. I don't need everybody to be positive all the time, but I guess my username is essentially having an existential crisis.

Well said. I think many feel exactly the same. I think the social media age can be part of the reason for this. Anyways, things might change.

 

[BlueHaze]

As I said it might make the board see were not all sycophants happy with our lot , facilitating a change in management

And you put your trust in the same board who has taken one disastrous decision after another to make things right? It's them who are the reason we have become a joke. I'm not going to go into all their past baffling decisions let' just focus on Ole. You simply cannot take a gamble hiring such an inexperienced manager like him then roughly spend about £72m net in the summer and expect anything good. I think under these lot it will take about 5 more sacked managers until they find a decent fit.

 

[Catt]

I used to read this forum as far back as 2009, and I really enjoyed reading what people who were passionate about football had to say. It didn't define my life in a positive way as you suggest, but I enjoyed it. It was entertainment to read an internet football forum, I didn't even need to contribute. People complained then too, they complained when we won the league by 11 points, they complained that SAF was tactically limited, they complained that we didn't sign that midfielder that would take us up a level. None of that really bothered me, there will always be negative people (and sometimes they have well argued points), but on the whole I felt (rightly or wrongly) that people came here because they were passionate about the game, and passionate about United. I just don't often feel that anymore. There are definitely still people here that fit that description, some of them believe Ole might be the right manager right now, some of them don't. Some of them believed in Jose, Louis, and even David Moyes... and others didn't. Now though, it feels as though crowd mentality has turned in a negative way... that's a topic discussed at length on this forum, but frankly, I don't come here to discuss the ripple effect of positivity, or the true meaning of patriotism, or to classify supporters... I come here to talk about football, and specifically the football related to Manchester United. I just don't feel like I get to do that enough anymore, every topic seems to morph into one, and I keep waiting for it to get better with a new manager (the forum, not the football), or after a win... but it doesn't. For me it's not about people expressing negative opinions, they're entitled to do that (this very post is negative)... the issue is that it's becoming inescapable. It's not a matter of how seriously I take this, it might seem melodramatic, but it's more a matter of whether people like me really belong here anymore. I don't need everybody to be positive all the time, but I guess my username is essentially having an existential crisis.

Totally agree and what you say reflects my feelings well. The forum has changed in a way and not for the better.

 

[Cypherage]

I think even if we continue to perform poorly the amount of "tourists" who visit OT outweigh the amount of "Hardcore" fans who go to games, I think a lot of people think United will improve overnight with a new manager in charge, it won't, why? because we are still stuck with the same dross that has been in the team for longer then they should have been.

The Glazers are not going to go anywhere anytime soon as long as United makes money for them, and I don't think enough fans have the guts to protest properly, i.e not go to games, an empty stadium will speak bigger volumes than a green and gold scarf or a plane flying overhead with messages.

The only way things would drastically change at boardroom level is if bigger drastic measures are taken in hitting the Glazers where it hurts, and that is their pockets, but United has become its own downfall, Brand United is a big seller, they will continue to generate money globally no matter what, which means the Glazers have zero reason to sell.

 

[Rood]

Have some balls, don’t keep singing Ole songs, we look pathetic putting up with this while Spurs & Arsenal actually have standards.

If it’s an awful game then yes boo a little, show you’re true emotions. Don’t just lap it all up & take it- fan reaction can make those at the top think ‘hmm the locals are restless - perhaps we do need a decent manager in charge & to demand better results for the biggest club in England’

Currently the fans are complicit with accepting lowering our place in the football world

I'll tell you what, come down to Old Trafford and let The Red Army or Stretford Enders know your feelings about this - I'll even get you a ticket as long as I can watch the fall out

 

[Tel074]

I asked why and you just came by with 2 paragraphs of contradiction. They haven’t spent nowhere near to money.. but they spent close to a Billion. They should have invested in Fergie.. well they didn’t and we still wasn’t midtable.

Like if this was a math problem the simple equation 9/10 times would be just get a good manager. But it goes over everyone’s head. Instead people want to make up fairytales of how good life is everywhere else. United should convert itself into a religion. The promise land being new owners and Pastor Ole continuing to tell us we need more offerings to fix our roof.

Oh sorry I didn't know that LVG and Jose are not good managers . The rot was already starting under Ferguson but we got by because he was a genius . We have needed one huge summer spending and we have not had it. Ole needed another 2 or 3 quality players last summer but it's always the same with Ed and the Glazers it's half a job and that's why we are getting further away instead of closer. LVG and especially Jose spent money but still couldn't close the gap to the top of the table .

 

[Tel074]

we have spent more than enough to be a top-club - we have just spent it the wrong way.

Completely agree . We have spent money but until last summer look at our squad and De Gea aside we have very little to show for our huge spending

 

[hobbers]

If it were up the match going fans Moyes would probably still be here trying to get us into the playoff positions.

 

[Mainoldo]

Oh sorry I didn't know that LVG and Jose are not good managers . The rot was already starting under Ferguson but we got by because he was a genius . We have needed one huge summer spending and we have not had it. Ole needed another 2 or 3 quality players last summer but it's always the same with Ed and the Glazers it's half a job and that's why we are getting further away instead of closer. LVG and especially Jose spent money but still couldn't close the gap to the top of the table .

You can pretend LVG wasn’t a dated manager if you want to. This was Luis last job before ‘retirement’. Let that sink in. Funnily enough we hired a world class manager and finished our highest position since Fergie.. see where I’m going with this. Solskjaer could have got all the tools he wanted but at the end of the day our league position is a reflection of his managing. Average.

 

[Tel074]

You can pretend LVG wasn’t a dated manager if you want to. This was Luis last job before ‘retirement’. Let that sink in. Funnily enough we hired a world class manager and finished our highest position since Fergie.. see where I’m going with this. Solskjaer could have got all the tools he wanted but at the end of the day our league position is a reflection of his managing. Average.

I don't see where you are going with this because that world class manager then couldn't finish top 4 So is Jose average? Our squad is dogshite and is because our buying has been pathetic . You can sit in your house crying about our manager and blaming everything on him . I'd rather go support my team and manager and see where he can take us ..

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't see where you are going with this because that world class manager then couldn't finish top 4 So is Jose average? Our squad is dogshite and is because our buying has been pathetic . You can sit in your house crying about our manager and blaming everything on him . I'd rather go support my team and manager and see where he can take us ..

That world class manager get relieved of his duties at Real Madrid, nearly relegated Chelsea so am I suppose to be surprised he failed in his third season yet again? No!

Well what’s the difference between that and sitting in your house and moaning about the owners.. You going to pretend you went to a Glazers it march?

Go support your manager. I always support my team mate.

 

[adexkola]

Have some balls, don’t keep singing Ole songs, we look pathetic putting up with this while Spurs & Arsenal actually have standards.

If it’s an awful game then yes boo a little, show you’re true emotions. Don’t just lap it all up & take it- fan reaction can make those at the top think ‘hmm the locals are restless - perhaps we do need a decent manager in charge & to demand better results for the biggest club in England’

Currently the fans are complicit with accepting lowering our place in the football world

Imagine having club management that reactive to fan reaction. It couldn't possibly end well.

 

[ZupZup]

The fans were absolutely brilliant last night. Best atmosphere at Old Trafford this season, easily. Huge support for the team and the manager and you could tell how appreciative they were.

You love to see it.

 

[Neil67]

The fans were absolutely brilliant last night. Best atmosphere at Old Trafford this season, easily. Huge support for the team and the manager and you could tell how appreciative they were.

You love to see it.

echo this, we were the 12th man last night and it made a big difference.

 

[RedMilo]

I was in Stretford End last night and have to say the atmosphere was best in a long long time. Last year when we played Reading in the cup, I lost my voice from singing non stop all game, but that was a day game, you cant beat that atmosphere for a night game against better opposition. The love for Ole and what he is doing doesn't waiver inside the stadium. I have said it before enjoy the ride, because if we manage to get where we want to be, its going to be so much sweeter...

 

[Neil67]

Moving the singing section from J stand to the lower Stretford End has also helped to improve the atmosphere. The last few games I have moved seats from Stretford T2 into the new atmosphere section and everyone in there are putting in a shift to get behind the lads and Ole! We just need to stop the tourists getting into that section!!

 

[RedIan]

Yep great vocal backing last night, a lot of support for Ole in the crowd, certainly doesnt reflect the mood of many on here.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I could digest the fact that MUFC is not a title winning club much better if I felt the board was serious, and that the lack of success was temporary and circunstancial. That's not the case though.

Sincere question, not a jab at you or anything, but this line begs for the question why do you love and support Manchester United in the first place? Is it only for the winning?

As a club institution, Manchester United Football Club are no Real Madrid or Rangers. Sure, thanks to Fergie we are today mentioned in the same breath with those but it's not in our history to be perrenial winners. Maybe most current fans fell in love with United during our winning era so they can't imagine supporting a club which goes five years or more without winning a major trophy. However, this club has only had two eras of continuous success which was under their two greatest managers. Either side of the successful eras has been much of what we have right now. Losing our minds over our current situation which certainly isn't ideal but is still very envious for most other clubs is totally irrational. Like one poster mentioned (in this thread or another) there is only one league winner each season. We have been that winner for a long stretch under Fergie, I don't see why we should burn down the house now just because we have gone a few seasons without notable success.

Sometimes when I read some posts (a few on this forum but mostly on the wider Internet) I almost wish we could drop down a few leagues just so the ficklest fans who support United only for trophies and bragging rights can go elsewhere and we rebuild calmly with a core of fans who actually support the club for who it is, embracing the club culture and traditions, and would accept not having success if it means maintaining the club traditions, rather than selling our souls to the devil just so we can celebrate winning a football trophy or two.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Crowd was very pro Ole last night

 

[Fanatic 00237]

People who attend games are infinitely more able to gauge progress and regress at a club than us who watch the games on a screen accompanied by the bias of the commentators and studio experts. At the game you have a complete view of the field all the time, and it is easier to pick up on, for instance, off the ball movement, the relationship between players on the field. Anyone who has ever attended a game knows this.

I'm quite convinced, from some of the things I read, that most of the constant moaners on here have all their exposure to football only via television and the internet. You don't even need to have been to Old Trafford but if you watch enough live football and follow any team consistently enough in real life, I'm sure you would tend to be more understanding of the match-going supporters in particular and United's situation in general.