When England came up against Italy in the final, they played like Burnley. In fact, Burnley do get clean sheets every now and then against some top 6 sides and it doesn't make Mee or Trakowski any Nestas.
Who are the top 5 centre-backs in the world?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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When England came up against Italy in the final, they played like Burnley. In fact, Burnley do get clean sheets every now and then against some top 6 sides and it doesn't make Mee or Trakowski any Nestas.
A lot of that was because we burnt out second half. Italy do have some top playmakers who help conserve energy in tournaments especially.
Spain made Italy look like Burnley too in the Semis with Busquettes putting on a clinic so it’s all about the midfield.
Another reason why United have been trash this season too not just Maguire’s weaknesses we play into. Chiellini would get torn apart in this United side tbh playing a high line.
Problem is even if let's say for argument sake he is elite 90% of the time he makes too many errors to actually be considered as such. Take David Luiz for example, he played like a world class CB for a large chunk of the time but he was never considered as such because he made too many basic errors at key times.
The type of errors you see/saw from a Maguire or a Luiz on a near monthly basis are a once a two season thing for the very elite defenders, if that.
I get the error thing but let’s face it last few seasons before this one Maguire was up there with just about any defender bar Marquinhos, VVD & Koudibali.
Godin too a couple of years ago I remember being particularly good. Diaz for City maybe the 5th. There aren’t that many truly exceptional defenders in world football week in week out that are classic CB’s. Part of the reason I didn’t count Alaba.
When we had two in Vidic and Ferdinand we actually won stuff. Still the best partnership for me in the past 20 years of any club CB wise.
Why some many people dont have Varane in the Top 5. He is so good. Hasnt done anything wrong for us. With him the defence looks so much better. Since he is back we dont concede many goals anymore.
De Ligt? Seriously? He's not even top 5 at Serie A at the moment.
Dias, Marquinhos, Militao, Timber, VVD/Varane.
Spain was better than Italy on that night but nowhere near the same difference as we saw in the final. Actually, I thought Olmo was just as important to Spain's domination. Italy also played for the first time without Spinazzola, not much trust in Emerson. But at the end, Italy didn't allow Spain to create as many chances as England conceded to Italy in the final.
Chiellini is 37. He played a high line throughout the Euros and mostly against teams from the top 10. We'd hope Sterling, Mount and Saka would torn him apart or outrun him.. But no, he was no Maguire.
At 37 and with injuries every other week, he is still more reliable than Maguire. That has got to tell us something about Maguire.
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Who are the other Serie A defenders that won their CL groups getting many clean sheets in the process, including against Chelsea?
Juventus was poor defensively with Pirlo, mostly because they had no real quality CM.
But since the arrival of Locatelli they’ve been more balanced and their defense is becoming the best in Italy. With De Ligt doing his job.
He is not on Marquinhos level but he is certainly far more worthy of a mention in this topic than Maguire, who is also been cited quite often.
System is always important and can make or break defenders. But the majority of Maguire's mistakes this season seem to have taken place around the box, rather than on the half-way line.
But the point is, he's not playing that well, one just needs to go to any Juve forum and realise they are expecting him to become much better. I reckon the potential is there.
In Serie A CBs like Skriniar, Bastoni, Bremer, and even Koulibaly (and I could mention a couple of others) have been much better overall.
I don't think you recall that Italy vs Spain semi final very well, that was basically the most one sided game in the competition.
Spain outplayed Italy from start to finish, Italy scored against the run of play, but when Spain equalized it was clear that the only way Italy could win that game was through penalty shootout. The Italians were hanging on to dear life.
A 10 men Switzerland had as much possession in the quarter final against Spain as Italy did with 11 men, shows you how much Spain dominated Italy.
Spain lost that game due to being wasteful. Before Italy scored, Oyazabal missed 2 clear open goals and they missed other occasions during the game.
Virgil van Dijk, Rúben Dias, Aymeric Laporte, Thiago Silva, David Alaba
I wasn't comparing it to what Spain did against Switzerland, I was comparing how Italy's defense dealt with being dominated to how England's defense dealt with being dominated.
Italy had poor possession and they kept trying to go direct and make counterattacks. Which could have worked if they weren't wasteful. Berardi and Immobile had big chances as well and missed them.
Olmo had a great game, he literally destroyed Jorginho on every duel. And Emerson was well... Emerson.
And at the end of the day, for all their possession and clear domination Spain created 0.7 expected goals more than Italy. Which says Italy's defense did well against such a superior (at least on the night) adversary.
In the final England lost the xGs by almost 2. That's a defense conceding more to the adversary. And England played with 5 at the back + 2 DMs. So the spaces sould have been dealt with better.
Italy's defense held well after they scored, but before that Spain had about 2-3 clear occasions. Italy only had one big occasion (as the stats you posted indicate) from Chiesa if i'm not mistaken.I wasn't comparing it to what Spain did against Switzerland, I was comparing how Italy's defense dealt with being dominated to how England's defense dealt with being dominated.
Italy had poor possession and they kept trying to go direct and make counterattacks. Which could have worked if they weren't wasteful. Berardi and Immobile had big chances as well and missed them.
Olmo had a great game, he literally destroyed Jorginho on every duel. And Emerson was well... Emerson.
And at the end of the day, for all their possession and clear domination Spain created 0.7 expected goals more than Italy. Which says Italy's defense did well against such a superior (at least on the night) adversary.
In the final England lost the xGs by almost 2. That's a defense conceding more to the adversary. And England played with 5 at the back + 2 DMs. So the spaces sould have been dealt with better.
Honestly Italy didn't survive that game because they were very good defensively, but because Spain lacked killer instinct in the final third.
Agreed Italy started the Spain game poorly with Emerson giving away easy chances.
But Italy also lacked a killer instinct.
Again I’m comparing Italy handling of being dominated to England handling of being dominated. Italian defenders kept trying to get the ball out properly in order to feed counterattacks.
This chance by Berardi could have put the game to bed. I don’t remember England getting anything like this in the final after their goal.
We’ll agree to disagree on that one. Spain should have been 3 or 4 up with so many clear cut chances and we can’t say that about the final.
The problem with England was the conservative tactics and tired players both physically and emotionally. Not having a playmaker or true creative force blunted England completely deep in the tournament.
England’s problem was that Foden, Grealish and Sancho sat on the bench while gentle long balls were lamely launched up to Kane.
Will never forgive Southgate for that. Incredible he was given a new contract after it - vibes of Utd with Solskjaer.
1) Van Dijk
2) Marquinhos
3) Dias
4) Laporte
5) Rudiger
The same thing was said about Silva for years, Silva is a good bit past his best and he has rolled into the Premier League no problem. Marquinhos is excellent in a similar way to how Silva was for PSG. He's had enough great CL games to prove that he's good enough.
2) Marquinhos
3) Dias
4) Laporte
5) Rudiger
The same thing was said about Silva for years, Silva is a good bit past his best and he has rolled into the Premier League no problem. Marquinhos is excellent in a similar way to how Silva was for PSG. He's had enough great CL games to prove that he's good enough.
1) Van Dijk
2) Marquinhos
3)Militao
4) Dias
5) Koulibaly
2) Marquinhos
3)Militao
4) Dias
5) Koulibaly
Overall yes but on current form it's hard to judge until he gets to the end of the season and faces proper opposition. Same as every season.
To be fair Silva did look like a rabbit in the headlights his first few games for Chelsea, until he got used to how much faster the game is here.
I like this list, although I'm sure there are a couple other names that could be swapped in for Laporte or Rudiger.
What's notable to me is that all of these guys are all-rounders - athletic enough to play a high line or be comfortable defending in space, good enough on the ball to be comfortable under pressure and even to carry the ball forward at times. Its hard to be a truly top defender anymore if you're a liability in possession or have tactical limitations, no matter how good you might be at other parts of the job.
Please don’t compare Maguire to Chiellini my god
I don’t think Van Dijk is the best in the world anymore tbh. He’s not the same defender that he was a few years ago.
I completely agree that he is not nearly the same player, just not confident about naming five guys who have surpassed him.
Liverpool having Van Dijk is honestly worth about 10 goals a season in attack, it allows their full backs to push up, play a high line near the half way line and their forwards to sit on the shoulder of the defenders. He’s good at set pieces and his long range passing is top class, he embarrasses someone like Maguire who was supposed to be good on the ball when he signed by comparison.
You just can’t do that without an elite defender there, they couldn’t when he was injured last season and the whole team was shite and the full backs were shells of players. The odd time he’s going to get caught out with a ball in behind and that gets highlighted but he’s still making a regular difference on the pitch. I agree he’s lost maybe a touch of pace after the injury understandably but still definitely up there as the best.
Vidic and Rio were awesome but Chelsea and Milan also had some all time great CB partnerships in early to mid 2000s. Milan when they picked from e.g. Stam, Maldini, Nesta. Chelsea with Terry, Carvalho, Gallas.
I think Stam and Maldini > Vidic and Rio personally but really nothing in it.
Except against Torres? They were a tough nut to crack especially with VDS behind them but they don’t have the record for least goals conceded in a 38 game season. That’s one record I can’t ever see being beat especially in the modern game.
According to this, Maldini played left-back and Stam paired with Nesta.
And how on earth did this back 4 throw away a 3-0 lead.
This Milan team was one of the best ever IMO. Absolutely incredible how that awful Liverpool team with donkeys all over the pitch apart from Gerrard and Alonso managed to come back and win.
I wasn't referring specifically to the CL final in fairness, just that of those 3 CBs I think Stam & Maldini were the best. But all 3 are all time greats so toss up really.
That Milan side also blew a 4-1 lead against Deportivo. They were prone to collapses.
Bumping this. Its the same every season with PSG players, they're Maradona and Messi rolled into one until somebody half decent turns up to play them.
Marquinhos is still a great defender, he just had a bad game. You don't become a bad player based on one game. Point remains with Thiago Silva, he "bottled" it on several occasions, then wins the CL when he's well past his best. There's more to PSG culture than just one player.
Agreed. He’s an excellent defender, and his performance yesterday doesn’t change that.
I also like Militao who is now showing the form that led to Madrid spending 50M Euro on him from Porto. He’s been excellent this season. I think Brazil have an excellent CB partnership to build on, as both are still young.
Yup Marquinhos is a fantastic defender that had a bad game.
I'm not saying I agree with your complete list ( for example I think Matip should be in there, he is criminally underrated) but I struggle to see how anyone can exclude him from a top 5.
Van dijk
Dias
Marquinhos
Thiago Silva ( still)
Bonucci ( still)
Dias
Marquinhos
Thiago Silva ( still)
Bonucci ( still)
A Marquinhos and Varane partnership would be ridiculous.
Sorry to quote you as there are others as well. Crazy to think how easily the football fans are fooled.
Matip's a very good defender. Not top five in the world but he's up there. Van Dijk is showing how good he is this season. Without him we wouldn't be in the hunt for any trophy this season.