Bruno
Who is the current best player in the world?
- Thread starter Eddy_JukeZ
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I think that's unfair, he cant destroy people in other leagues, he plays in LaLiga. I don't watch all games of Messi or anyone other than United but anytime I do see him, he's still the best at passing, dribbling his vision is still amazing, for me there's no one close still.
It does seem today you have to win the Champions League to be considered the best individual player, I don't agree with. You put some of Messi's great team mates beside him again and I think people would rightly view him as the best still because he/Barce would win the Champions League.
I don't disagree that he's wasting his years there but it's not like LA Liga or especially Bundesliga have loads of competition yet we see Bayern players getting mentioned. Don't really see a huge deal there to base it on.
Glad I said him now
Muller is absolutely outstanding and an incredible player but I guess the reason people don't see him as it's not him scoring all the goals. If they watched Bayern more they'd understand. But I get it too - he's not got the trickery of a Ronaldo or Salah or Neymar. But he's twice as intelligent as all of those players. I'd love him at United
In fairness this is nearly always what wins the award, the most effective match winner in the best team.
Pickford maybe currently most impactful.
Excellent banter
Whatever the case may be, it's much better than the Ligue 1 as European competitions results show. I don't see how you can say Neymar is the 3rd best in reality (on potential yes)
May have something to do with Bayern smashing a good fraction of the european top clubs over those last few months.
In this current situation I think it's fair to say that it's basically impossible to claim anybody is the #1. There are many people as contenders in a really debatable top10 I'd say, but no one really stands as much out as the two aliens did in recent years. A year or two ago, it was no competition at all. It was Messi and Ronaldo (both being #1 in some years and #2 in others) all along. I see a lot of great players mentioned here and there certainly.
I'd like to talk about some of them:
Neymar - well, while I don't agree that he is necessarily "wasting his time" in France, I think it's fair to say that his performances simply do not stand out and that he couldn't live up to the hype around him when he was younger. He is by no means a bad player or has a disappointing carreer, but judging by his performances (especially in the UCL, as it's a competition of most prestige, pressure and comparability!), he can't be #1.
Lewandowski - he's maybe the strongest contender for the #1 title. Great stats, huge contribution to his team's success and overall a complete worldclass player. But somehow he does not embody all the attributes of THE #1. If he is the best player in the world, it's by such a fine margin that this "title" is basically worth not more than being mentioned in the top10 players.
Gnabry - I like his playstyle, he's ruthless, very effective and all around a big game player. But I can not see anything in his performances that would separate him from the other players in a hypothetical top10. He's obviously special, but he's not outstanding in this circle of elite players.
Müller - He's great and one of my all time favorites. But does he have the ability to impact games like no other player on this planet? The best abilities? He's very effective in some situations and a donkey in others. A lot has to be set up for him, coach-wise and team-wise. He's not the world's best player.
Mbappé - I think basically the same that applies to Neymar applies to him.
KdB - awesome player, very impactful in a lot of situations and one of those elite players of the very finest class that would be able to function in almost every environment. He's definitely in the inner circle of top10 (I'd say around 2-4) but judging by his performances, which should always result in performances that stand out and/or silverware of the highest value, he's not #1.
Kane - yea, he scores when he wants, he's a leader and he seems to have lots of impact on and off the pitch. Great player, but neither his stats nor his ability in terms of other qualities bar scoring goals stand as much as out as he could be #1.
Haaland - mentioned by quite a few here, he's not even in my top10 circle at this moment. He has all the potential and if he keeps on playing like he did in recent months, he might even end up being #1. True force of nature, very effective, physically strong, technically gifted and a great instinct for goals. He still has a lot more to show and win some titles, participate in the biggest games in world football to be called #1. You can't be up there if you do not compete with the best in the most prestigious games. As I mentioned before, he might very well be up there in the (near) future.
Others mentioned here are obviously Ronaldo and Messi, who are in decline and will be remembered as the best players to ever play football. But at this very moment, they're not #1 anymore.
What I basically want to say is, that, simply judging by the amount of players mentioned here, it is relatively obvious that there's no current #1 or at least it can not be judged who it is. And even if it would be judged, it would be by such a fine margin that this classification is of any more worth than being mentioned in a current top10.
Edit: ah, I forgot Neuer. While my personal #1 can't be a goalkeeper, I understand that others would include him. Judging by his current abilities, impact, silverware and performances in the biggest of games in world football and if you want to include goalkeepers as well, he'd be in the top2 and as close as Lewandowski to being #1.
I'd like to talk about some of them:
Neymar - well, while I don't agree that he is necessarily "wasting his time" in France, I think it's fair to say that his performances simply do not stand out and that he couldn't live up to the hype around him when he was younger. He is by no means a bad player or has a disappointing carreer, but judging by his performances (especially in the UCL, as it's a competition of most prestige, pressure and comparability!), he can't be #1.
Lewandowski - he's maybe the strongest contender for the #1 title. Great stats, huge contribution to his team's success and overall a complete worldclass player. But somehow he does not embody all the attributes of THE #1. If he is the best player in the world, it's by such a fine margin that this "title" is basically worth not more than being mentioned in the top10 players.
Gnabry - I like his playstyle, he's ruthless, very effective and all around a big game player. But I can not see anything in his performances that would separate him from the other players in a hypothetical top10. He's obviously special, but he's not outstanding in this circle of elite players.
Müller - He's great and one of my all time favorites. But does he have the ability to impact games like no other player on this planet? The best abilities? He's very effective in some situations and a donkey in others. A lot has to be set up for him, coach-wise and team-wise. He's not the world's best player.
Mbappé - I think basically the same that applies to Neymar applies to him.
KdB - awesome player, very impactful in a lot of situations and one of those elite players of the very finest class that would be able to function in almost every environment. He's definitely in the inner circle of top10 (I'd say around 2-4) but judging by his performances, which should always result in performances that stand out and/or silverware of the highest value, he's not #1.
Kane - yea, he scores when he wants, he's a leader and he seems to have lots of impact on and off the pitch. Great player, but neither his stats nor his ability in terms of other qualities bar scoring goals stand as much as out as he could be #1.
Haaland - mentioned by quite a few here, he's not even in my top10 circle at this moment. He has all the potential and if he keeps on playing like he did in recent months, he might even end up being #1. True force of nature, very effective, physically strong, technically gifted and a great instinct for goals. He still has a lot more to show and win some titles, participate in the biggest games in world football to be called #1. You can't be up there if you do not compete with the best in the most prestigious games. As I mentioned before, he might very well be up there in the (near) future.
Others mentioned here are obviously Ronaldo and Messi, who are in decline and will be remembered as the best players to ever play football. But at this very moment, they're not #1 anymore.
What I basically want to say is, that, simply judging by the amount of players mentioned here, it is relatively obvious that there's no current #1 or at least it can not be judged who it is. And even if it would be judged, it would be by such a fine margin that this classification is of any more worth than being mentioned in a current top10.
Edit: ah, I forgot Neuer. While my personal #1 can't be a goalkeeper, I understand that others would include him. Judging by his current abilities, impact, silverware and performances in the biggest of games in world football and if you want to include goalkeepers as well, he'd be in the top2 and as close as Lewandowski to being #1.
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The question seems to be who is the most in form player in the world. Otherwise there is no question - it is still Messi.
Disagree. For example, based on what is Ronaldo better than Lewandowski for the last 2 years ? At Ronaldos peak people judged him based on scoring. He scored insane amount of goals no matter which competition. Why cant we just Lewandowski based on his scoring ? He is scoring an insane amount of goals and even if he doesnt score he has such impact to the team with his high workrate, hold up and link up game.
In form - Messi
In big games - Ronaldo
Actually - Lewa by a mile
In big games - Ronaldo
Actually - Lewa by a mile
Spare your breath. Half of the CAF thinks that the second toughest tournament in the world is the Championship and every other European league a farmers league. The truth is that until UEFA comes up with a tournament where the lower ranked teams play with each other, we'll never really know if the 16th team in the Premiership is much better than the 16th team in the Bundesliga or La Liga.
Neymar
I actually think Kimmich is the best player in the world at the moment.
Kevin Moran.
Neymar.
I get your point but in the end, he's a striker and although he's more involved in the creation of chances than your average number 9, he's not participating enough for me to be labelled the best player in the world. He's finishing off attacks but you generally want your best player on the ball much more often than Lewandowski is.
See, I argued the same way against Cristiano being the best player in the world in recent years. However, Cristiano set a very high standar for himself in his early days and although he's not creating as much as he used to, his overall contribution is still greater than Lewandowski's. It shows in various stats like assists, dribblings, etc.
Lewandowski always had great link up and hold up play. His technique is among the best his position has seen. But when we're talking about 'best in the world', that's new benchmark. And in that case, for me he's still too focused on finishing chances. Now we're comparimg him with Messi, Neymar, de Bruyne, Cristiano, Salah, Mane etc. and they're a different breed.
I don't disregard Lewandowski's impact outside of goals. He's got great overall contribution for a striker. But that's the decisive point for me. Having great overall contribution 'for a striker' isn't enough for me.
As I mentioned above, Cristiano was always compared to the player he was and obviously to Messi after he changed his playing style, not to other strikers. His overall game was still far superior to others in his position. No coincidence he's got the most assists in CL history. Now that people claim that Lewandowski is the best in the world, you need to hold him to the same standard. And he can be even more anonymous than CR7.
I get the point but I just can't agree. Think this way of assessing a player's impact is too focused on the finishing of attacks. If I consider all tge things Neymar and Messi do in the build up and how they still maintain great scoring ratios, I just can't convince myself that Lewandowski is as productive.
It used to be different, which is kind of my point. I believe the whole Messi vs Ronaldo debate at some point was reduced to the question who's scoring more goals and suddenly the player with the better scoring stats was the best in the world,although their goal records wasn't what elevated them to the hall of fame in the first place. And now that had transitioned over to other players as well.
No obvious best player at the minute. With that in mind, I'd like to throw my hat in ring.
7 goals in a recent league night at Goals, one which I nutmegged two defenders and chipped the keeper after fake shot.
Happy to accept your vote.
7 goals in a recent league night at Goals, one which I nutmegged two defenders and chipped the keeper after fake shot.
Happy to accept your vote.
I think Lewandowski is Zlatan without the flash, except a little more mobile than prime Zlatan, in a better team, and therefore scores more in the big CL games. He's a brilliant player, then again if we boil it down to "If you were picking sides with a mate, who would you pick first?" I doubt I'd go Lewa, Messi or Ronaldo at the moment.
Morten Gamst Pedersen
And Lewandowski would have rightfully won the Ballon d'Or if it weren't cancelled for 2020. But the question wasn't "who had the best season"? It was "who is the best in the world" and in my opinion it's still Messi and Ronaldo. You don't have to agree with me though
Lewandowski, he already scored 10 goals in 4 Matches and single handedly wins Bundesliga games!
The one game he did not start, Bayern lost 4-1
The one game he did not start, Bayern lost 4-1
I think that it's between Neymar and Lewandowski. People seem to want a salient passing-of-the-torch moment to move from Messi but he's no longer the same player he used to be.
If you're objective and leave names out of it and look at each player's impact on his team, I can't see how Lewandowski (or Neymar) aren't right at the top of the list.
Neymar might not be as consistent over the course of the season as Lewandowski, but at his best, he might be the best player on the planet.
Lewandowski might be just a hair below him when both are at their best, but he produces more over the course of the season.
If you're objective and leave names out of it and look at each player's impact on his team, I can't see how Lewandowski (or Neymar) aren't right at the top of the list.
Neymar might not be as consistent over the course of the season as Lewandowski, but at his best, he might be the best player on the planet.
Lewandowski might be just a hair below him when both are at their best, but he produces more over the course of the season.
And Lewandowski would have rightfully won the Ballon d'Or if it weren't cancelled for 2020. But the question wasn't "who had the best season"? It was "who is the best in the world" and in my opinion it's still Messi and Ronaldo. You don't have to agree with me though
True, question is current best player. I think taking last season and this season is fair. There is not one thing that Ronaldo did better than Lewandowski in the last 2 years. "Class is permanent" doesn´t mean that a player has the exact level forever. To put it simple, put a retired 38 year old Xabi Alonso in a top team now and when he makes a nice long pass in a game - > that means class is permanent, but that doesnt necessarily mean he is still a top player. Players decline and become worse obviously. I am not saying Ronaldo is way worse now , just that you cant say he is still the best player based on his former peaks at Madrid.
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Kimmich has to be right up there in terms of leadership, creativity, consistency, and flexibility.
R
Ronaldo is still a top top player but as you rightly pointed out, he has not been able to reach his "peak" performance as regularly as he had in his best years at Madrid. The top ceiling is still there but it becomes more difficult to attain that level week-in week-out. And that is to be expected. He has changed his playing style before and will probably adept again. The overall ceiling will drop a bit and maybe he'll hit the new ceiling more often.
Neymar is such a weird choice.
What he does in French League is irrelevant, everytime I watch him in CL he makes a fool of himself and gets bailed out by Mbappe or Di Maria.
I'm a big fan of the PSG project but Neymar's selfish a weak mentality is the reason why they keep failing when it matters on European stage.
Ten years from now, Neymar will be remembered as deluxe Robinho.
What he does in French League is irrelevant, everytime I watch him in CL he makes a fool of himself and gets bailed out by Mbappe or Di Maria.
I'm a big fan of the PSG project but Neymar's selfish a weak mentality is the reason why they keep failing when it matters on European stage.
Ten years from now, Neymar will be remembered as deluxe Robinho.
They played Chelsea and Barca in the first two knockouts ties, both who were poor for a variety of reasons (Chelsea no Hazard, transfer ban, Barcelona in shambles) and they won 15-3 on aggregate against those teams. Then they had Lyon in the semis. Hardly a tough run is it. PSG in the final is the one tough team they faced.
If they faced a team like Liverpool like they did in the previous CL campaign (and lost), or City, two teams that are in their relative primes, they would have had an actual challenge. Of course you can only beat what's in front of you, but like in Bundesliga they only faced teams they were expected to beat (PSG aside). For a proper run look at Madrids run when they last one the CL - PSG, Juventus, Bayern and then Liverpool.
I don't have the stats of Bundesliga vs other leagues in terms of goal scoring, nor can I really quantify it in terms of quality of attackers / defenders vs other leagues. The reality is though Lewandowski plays in a team that dominates the league year out - and yet despite that over the last 5 years has struggled to show himself in the CL when facing top teams (e.g. against Madrid - he's always poor). I'll take those many years over 1 weird covid year where Bayern got an easy run in the CL.
Also one of the reasons I say the Bundesliga is easier to score in - which may be wrong as this is purely anecdotal - is that some players for us like Kagawa and Mikhi have scored around 20 goals in a season there, and the struggled to even come close to that in the PL.
Overall whilst Lewa is undoubtably a great striker and one of the best of his generation, does he have a moment of absolute magic in him consistently the way Ronaldo and Messi have, or Neymar has? To me a great player but not even as good as some of his striking peers like Suarez.
I was quite surprised to see that Lewy isn't 10+ on assists every season. His stats are comparable to Ronaldo.
Anyway, I was talking about his contribution outside goals and assist, something I never rated in Ronaldo since he moved to Madrid.
You mean Real's run, where they should've gone out against Bayern, but the ref somehow pulled them through?
As for the second part of your comment: I thought as much.
Kagawa and Mikhi were pure system players, who worked great for Klopp's Dortmund, but failed elsewhere. It was always a bad idea to sign them.
If you want to look at an actually talented former Dortmund player, look at Aubameyang: Scored a ton of goals in the Bundesliga and now scores even more (!) in the Premier League.
Thanks for stating the obvious in comparing retired players to modern players. Mind you, Ronaldo is a beast who can turn it on at any moment. Mind you, you don't have to agree with me, but if I had to win one game and had to pick between Lewandowski, Messi and Ronaldo, I'd pick Ronaldo all day and every day...
When was the last time Phil Jones or Rojo lost a game for us? With such high unbeaten stats they need to be mentioned.
has to be Dan James atm
You could have just said you don't like Neymar and leave it that that, because everything you said here about Neymar is false.
No one here in France (or amongst those who frequently watch Paris) thinks Mbappé or Di Maria are the ones bailing Psg out, everything goes through Neymar.
Actually the criticism of Psg during the final 8 competition was that if Neymar wasn't having a good game, then there's no other solution. And we all saw that during the final against Bayern.
If you can't stick to the terms of the deal...
‘Dowski
I agree with that. He should win the Ballon d'Or this year. Brilliant striker and the best player in the world right now and won pretty much all there was to win for him this year.
Was just meant to be an example for you to understand what " class is permanent" is used for ( since you used it as an argument) ,but you still dont understand it , otherwise you would know the comparison was legit , not matter if retired or not.
As for you last point. Good for you, but this is not a indicator for being the best player btw. Anyway, I strongly disagree . Fair enough, move on.