Who replaces Ten Hag?

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romufc

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Whilst I actually thought he would be a good candidate if we're getting someone from the league, trying to say he's one of the best candidates is an absolute nonsense take.
I think this would be a mistake, he has been at Brentford for 5 years and granted he got them to 9th in the PL but he hasn't done anything amazing.

His teams are also sit back and transition teams rather than what fans want, possession football and a style of play.
 

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Probably reiterating a lot of what has been said for 100 pages but I'm not sure there is an ideal candidate available right now. It's still Manchester United and maybe we can lure away whoever is the best even if they're technically not available at the moment, but it really does just feel like not the right moment. Hopefully the Southgate stuff is all tosh, as I am absolutely convinced he is and will be worse than EtH.

From the names being mentioned, the only one I'd consider is Poch. I think he's a very good manager, he's good at bringing through young players, I like his styles of play etc. But the one question mark I have is if he is really a winner? I'm just not sure if he is, but considering he's managed Spurs and the mess that Chelsea has become in this league maybe it's a bit harsh to ask that question?

I keep asking myself "Do I think this manager will be better than ten Hag?" And I can't really say yes to pretty much any of the names in question. And even if the answer is more yes than no, do I think they'll do it any time soon? Is ten Hag better equipped because he already has a couple of years experience and trophies in the bank?
 

Lash

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Well, I'm open to all of the candidates except Southgate, due to Ineos apparently considering the manager's position as more of a head coach position. Frank seems to have a possession-based default philosophy but has shown great adaptability as well due to Brentford having one of the weakest squads in the league. He also seems to have some charisma and not a boring character. He's an acceptable choice for me. A risky appointment, but potentially a high ceiling project.
For sure, I do not want Southgate. I think Frank fits the head coach position down to a tee and will happily trust a recruitment team, like he's done at Brentford. What I would say he's more tranistion-based, than possession-based, but that doesn't bother me personally. He certainly has charisma, but has a touch of the Keegans about him with his meltdowns post our games. Certainly is a risk and a big step up, but he does deserve a shot at a bigger club in the league, so I understand it.
I think this would be a mistake, he has been at Brentford for 5 years and granted he got them to 9th in the PL but he hasn't done anything amazing.

His teams are also sit back and transition teams rather than what fans want, possession football and a style of play.
I think he has shown he deserves an opportunity to see what he can do at the next level, he's clearly a good coach and with INEOS appearing to be moving to that kind of structure, he's a solid choice for that transition.

Now I think for me the issues will be, can he handle the pressure of a massive team like United? Also does he have the ability to win things? For all Ten Hag's faults, he still can on his day can lead a team to silverware. Lot of question marks for me but at least I can see some solid reasoning behind it.
 

sglowrider

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For sure, I do not want Southgate. I think Frank fits the head coach position down to a tee and will happily trust a recruitment team, like he's done at Brentford. What I would say he's more tranistion-based, than possession-based, but that doesn't bother me personally. He certainly has charisma, but has a touch of the Keegans about him with his meltdowns post our games. Certainly is a risk and a big step up, but he does deserve a shot at a bigger club in the league, so I understand it.

I think he has shown he deserves an opportunity to see what he can do at the next level, he's clearly a good coach and with INEOS appearing to be moving to that kind of structure, he's a solid choice for that transition.

Now I think for me the issues will be, can he handle the pressure of a massive team like United? Also does he have the ability to win things? For all Ten Hag's faults, he still can on his day can lead a team to silverware. Lot of question marks for me but at least I can see some solid reasoning behind it.
Devils advocate -- with this system we are going to have to assume that ineos new recruitment team will know what they are doing.
If there is a big disconnect between the recruitment team and their 'yes man' manager then we are back to square one.
 

romufc

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I think he has shown he deserves an opportunity to see what he can do at the next level, he's clearly a good coach and with INEOS appearing to be moving to that kind of structure, he's a solid choice for that transition.

Now I think for me the issues will be, can he handle the pressure of a massive team like United? Also does he have the ability to win things? For all Ten Hag's faults, he still can on his day can lead a team to silverware. Lot of question marks for me but at least I can see some solid reasoning behind it.
There is a massive change from Brentford to Manutd. He may be a good coach but I feel he is not a coach for the bigger teams.

We are not happy with sit back and counter football, we want to control games. Many fans are not happy with Ten Hag possessions stats, Frank's teams are worse.
 

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Devils advocate -- with this system we are going to have to assume that ineos new recruitment team will know what they are doing.
If there is a big disconnect between the recruitment team and their 'yes man' manager then we are back to square one.
For sure, but I think that's more a tick in Frank's box than a mark against him. Apologies if that is what you mean too!
There is a massive change from Brentford to Manutd. He may be a good coach but I feel he is not a coach for the bigger teams.

We are not happy with sit back and counter football, we want to control games. Many fans are not happy with Ten Hag possessions stats, Frank's teams are worse.
Of course, but you only get experience by getting opportunities. You've previously mentioned Arteta as a good coach, no? He didn't have any sort of pedigree to suggest he'd do as well as he has.

That's fine, but not realistic with the squad we have and likely will have, even post summer. I still think we will focus on transitions and Frank still does play good football, despite the relative strength of his squad and lower possession stats.
 

romufc

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For sure, but I think that's more a tick in Frank's box than a mark against him. Apologies if that is what you mean too!

Of course, but you only get experience by getting opportunities. You've previously mentioned Arteta as a good coach, no? He didn't have any sort of pedigree to suggest he'd do as well as he has.

That's fine, but not realistic with the squad we have and likely will have, even post summer. I still think we will focus on transitions and Frank still does play good football, despite the relative strength of his squad and lower possession stats.
Yes, I did mention Arteta being a good coach. He didn't obviously have the experience and was a risk appointment. He was rated very highly by Manchester City and Arsenal, playing for Arsenal also helped him get the job.

However; Arteta is the new generation of coaches, I am not sure Frank is.

It also depends how these managers can adapt to bigger clubs like you have said previously, we have seen Potter struggle, Poch struggle.
 

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Interested to see who the experts land on next if De Zerbi gets ruled out soon as well. Xavi?
 

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There is a massive change from Brentford to Manutd. He may be a good coach but I feel he is not a coach for the bigger teams.

We are not happy with sit back and counter football, we want to control games. Many fans are not happy with Ten Hag possessions stats, Frank's teams are worse.
We won cup final playing sit back and counter. Maybe if Ten Hag done it bit more we may not have finished 8th with a -GD and he be in better position of where he finds himself now however I do agree be nice to dominate games and control games playing good football.

Think Di Zerbi be the better option with a better transfer set up in recruitment of players. We know what type of football Di Zerbi wants to play.

Plus if Wilcox task is to create a structure in the club towards a playing style then Di Zerbi type of football fits throughout the club from academy/youth teams towards the 1st team.

He done this with Southampton, appointed Martin as he fits the style if football they wanted and whole club aim to play the style of football they wanted. Pathway to 1st team from youth teams everyone is on the same page when it comes to style of football.
 

redshaw

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If we want a means to an end or start off on the right foot in terms of play style, looking at Brighton's first season under De Zerbi he would be someone fitting that idea if Ineos do have that in mind and also maybe Berrada is pushing for that.

It's hard to ignore the travesty of our league games from start to finish under ETH.
 

Lash

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Yes, I did mention Arteta being a good coach. He didn't obviously have the experience and was a risk appointment. He was rated very highly by Manchester City and Arsenal, playing for Arsenal also helped him get the job.

However; Arteta is the new generation of coaches, I am not sure Frank is.

It also depends how these managers can adapt to bigger clubs like you have said previously, we have seen Potter struggle, Poch struggle.
I think it's unfair to say Frank isn't highly rated. In the league, I think he'll be one of the most respected. He's the 2nd longest serving manager in the league, now Klopp has gone.

Definitely would be my big worry with Frank, but hopefully a lot of the pressure will be alleviated with the new structure focussing on the recruitment.
 

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We won cup final playing sit back and counter. Maybe if Ten Hag done it bit more we may not have finished 8th with a -GD and he be in better position of where he finds himself now however I do agree be nice to dominate games and control games playing good football.

Think Di Zerbi be the better option with a better transfer set up in recruitment of players. We know what type of football Di Zerbi wants to play.

Plus if Wilcox task is to create a structure in the club towards a playing style then Di Zerbi type of football fits throughout the club from academy/youth teams towards the 1st team.

He done this with Southampton, appointed Martin as he fits the style if football they wanted and whole club aim to play the style of football they wanted. Pathway to 1st team from youth teams everyone is on the same page when it comes to style of football.
I wish people would stop glossing over the severity if how disastrous this actually was. We were for 98% of the season awful to watch and implemented the most foolish style. Ten Hag needs to do way more than 'a bit more'.
 

romufc

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I think it's unfair to say Frank isn't highly rated. In the league, I think he'll be one of the most respected. He's the 2nd longest serving manager in the league, now Klopp has gone.

Definitely would be my big worry with Frank, but hopefully a lot of the pressure will be alleviated with the new structure focussing on the recruitment.
Longest serving manager's don't mean that he is highly rated... If you look at the teams that have had new managers, Spurs, Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, he was not a candidate for any of those jobs.
 

romufc

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We won cup final playing sit back and counter. Maybe if Ten Hag done it bit more we may not have finished 8th with a -GD and he be in better position of where he finds himself now however I do agree be nice to dominate games and control games playing good football.

Think Di Zerbi be the better option with a better transfer set up in recruitment of players. We know what type of football Di Zerbi wants to play.

Plus if Wilcox task is to create a structure in the club towards a playing style then Di Zerbi type of football fits throughout the club from academy/youth teams towards the 1st team.

He done this with Southampton, appointed Martin as he fits the style if football they wanted and whole club aim to play the style of football they wanted. Pathway to 1st team from youth teams everyone is on the same page when it comes to style of football.
The problem is, I cant see us or any team winning the league playing that football. Ten Hag made a mistake, I know many people wouldn't want to but you can see reasoning behind it.

He was stubborn on his style of play and his interview with Gary Neville saying with his players he wanted to play a certain style but didn't want to keep changing it based on injuries. That is his fault, but I can see where he is coming from, changing styles weekly would have been bad too.

Its all well and good saying Di Zerbi because of the style he plays but I guarantee you, if we get him and we start losing games 4-0. Brighton lost 7 times with a bigger than 3 goal margin with some real beatings too. United fans wont take that, I have seen comments in the last 2 days saying he should be sacked because he lost 3-0 to Bournemouth.. well Di Zerbi lost 3-0 last season to them too and 7-1 to Villa.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Longest serving manager's don't mean that he is highly rated... If you look at the teams that have had new managers, Spurs, Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, he was not a candidate for any of those jobs.
He was one of the main candidates for the Chelsea job.
 

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redshaw

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Sense a theme here with managers and players saying nah I'm good thanks to United, Chelsea and Bayern.
 

JB7

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I like the idea of Thomas Frank. We keep trying to skip the process. We need someone to help build up our style and identity. Ten Hag clearly can’t get his ideas across successfully.
If Ten Hag had taken us as far backwards as Frank took Brentford this season he'd have already been sacked. Appointing him would be epitome of change for the sake of change.
 

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If Ten Hag had taken us as far backwards as Frank took Brentford this season he'd have already been sacked. Appointing him would be epitome of change for the sake of change.
To be fair, he lost all his best attacking players for most of the season (Toney, Mbuemo), in an already low quality squad. I think you can let him off this season.
 

romufc

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If Ten Hag had taken us as far backwards as Frank took Brentford this season he'd have already been sacked. Appointing him would be epitome of change for the sake of change.
That is a very good point.

@Tom Van Persie. The poster here has made a point, everyone is saying Ten Hag was so bad he took us from 3rd to 8th.. Frank took Brentford from 9th to 16th.. isn't that something we should be looking at as well.

Its fine because its not United, there is no big media coverage or anything on that.
 

romufc

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To be fair, he lost all his best attacking players for most of the season (Toney, Mbuemo), in an already low quality squad. I think you can let him off this season.
These are the views I disagree with.. if you let of one manager due to injuries/ unavailability, you should be consistent to Ten Hag as he had the same issues.
 

JB7

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To be fair, he lost all his best attacking players for most of the season (Toney, Mbuemo), in an already low quality squad. I think you can let him off this season.
Why? Ten Hag isn't afforded that luxury for being without any proper defence for basically the entire season, despite that defence being absolute critical to the way the team both defends and attacks. And that's without the ridiculous injuries everywhere else on the pitch too. It's not one rule for one, and one rule for another.
 

Lash

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These are the views I disagree with.. if you let of one manager due to injuries/ unavailability, you should be consistent to Ten Hag as he had the same issues.
I am consistent with Ten Hag on this? I was never in the camp to sack him because of this and other factors, but understand the need for change. I think losing a player like Toney to Brentford, is very different to having injuries at United. The squad should be constructed better.
 

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That is a very good point.

@Tom Van Persie. The poster here has made a point, everyone is saying Ten Hag was so bad he took us from 3rd to 8th.. Frank took Brentford from 9th to 16th.. isn't that something we should be looking at as well.

Its fine because its not United, there is no big media coverage or anything on that.
Brentford regressed massively last season under Thomas Frank finishing 20 points worse off than the previous season

Season 22/23 9th W15 D14 L9 GF58 GA46 GD12 Pts59

Season 23/24 16th W10 D9 L19 GF56 GA65 GD-9 Pts39
 

Lash

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I am consistent with Ten Hag on this? I was never in the camp to sack him because of this and other factors, but understand the need for change. I think losing a player like Toney to Brentford, is very different to having injuries at United. The squad should be constructed better.
@JB7
 

JB7

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It should be constructed better, but that's on the club rather than the manager isn't it. Part of why I expect things to improve over the next couple of years now we are finally building a proper structure and will hopefully start letting players go who we know aren't good enough but are paid at a level we cannot replace them without them leaving.
 

romufc

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I am consistent with Ten Hag on this? I was never in the camp to sack him because of this and other factors, but understand the need for change. I think losing a player like Toney to Brentford, is very different to having injuries at United. The squad should be constructed better.
How is Brentford losing Toney for 1/2 a season different to us losing Lisandro? Shaw? Casemiro?

So who's fault is it that the squad isnt constructed better? The fact that we had 1 ST all season to rely on?
 

romufc

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Brentford regressed massively last season under Thomas Frank finishing 20 points worse off than the previous season

Season 22/23 9th W15 D14 L9 GF58 GA46 GD12 Pts59

Season 23/24 16th W10 D9 L19 GF56 GA65 GD-9 Pts39
This is funny because its hypocritical from fans who want Frank.

Oh Ten Hag should be sacked as we finished 8th with negative goal difference... We should hire Frank, he is amazing coach...

He got them 20 points of worse with negative goal difference too...
 

Tom Van Persie

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That is a very good point.

@Tom Van Persie. The poster here has made a point, everyone is saying Ten Hag was so bad he took us from 3rd to 8th.. Frank took Brentford from 9th to 16th.. isn't that something we should be looking at as well.

Its fine because its not United, there is no big media coverage or anything on that.
He was missing key players in an already poor and lightweight squad. Somebody else said it on here a few weeks ago, if Kieran McKenna keeps Ipswich up next season and ends up turning them into a stable PL club, many United fans will be clamouring for him in the next few seasons and rightfully so. Thomas Frank took up a Brentford team a few years ago that's probably on a similar level to Ipswich this year and they've never been in danger of being relegated. Brentford are now considered a stable PL club who are capable of giving the top teams in the league problems. He's done an incredible job there.
 

romufc

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He was missing key players in an already poor and lightweight squad. Somebody else said it on here a few weeks ago, if Kieran McKenna keeps Ipswich up next season and ends up turning them into a stable PL club, many United fans will be clamouring for him in the next few seasons and rightfully so. Thomas Frank took up a Brentford team a few years ago that's probably on a similar level to Ipswich this year and they've never been in danger of being relegated. Brentford are now considered a stable PL club who are capable of giving the top teams in the league problems. He's done an incredible job there.
So exactly like Ten Hag, missing players in a poor and lightweight squad. We had no 2nd choice ST, our midfield was reliant on a 18 year old.

People will then say, he spent x money on players, just have a look at Frank's record in the transfer window, its not great either.

Difference is, McKenna took a div 1 team and got back to back promotions, compared to Frank who took over a championship mid table team and took 3 seasons for promotion. There are massive differences there.

Any PL team is capable of giving top teams a problem, even during SAF days, I remember losing to Burnley away who were just promoted. I saw most top PL teams struggle at Luton away as well.
 

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I am consistent with Ten Hag on this? I was never in the camp to sack him because of this and other factors, but understand the need for change. I think losing a player like Toney to Brentford, is very different to having injuries at United. The squad should be constructed better.
If you’re going 6/7 CBs deep and both LBs are injured I’d say it’s not just a case of squad construction but even if we take that approach United should plan transfers better as a club regardless of manager.
 
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