Who replaces Ten Hag?

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Lash

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It should be constructed better, but that's on the club rather than the manager isn't it. Part of why I expect things to improve over the next couple of years now we are finally building a proper structure and will hopefully start letting players go who we know aren't good enough but are paid at a level we cannot replace them without them leaving.
Agreed, but also Ten Hag has his hands all over this squad's construction. It is unfair now that will be out of his hands, but also you can't get away from the players he has signed. Again, I was never a Ten Hag outer, so I believe both are valid excuses for both managers.
How is Brentford losing Toney for 1/2 a season different to us losing Lisandro? Shaw? Casemiro?

So who's fault is it that the squad isnt constructed better? The fact that we had 1 ST all season to rely on?
Because they do not have the luxury of having a fantastic academy and also shed loads of cash - that Ten Hag has a big part in wasting.

Obviously the club, but also Ten Hag for wasting money too.
If you’re going 6/7 CBs deep and both LBs are injured I’d say it’s not just a case of squad construction but even if we take that approach United should plan transfers better as a club regardless of manager.
I always say the LB situation was unprecedented and CB situation was also. That being said, Ten hag should have either adapted to what he had, finished higher with the resources he did have available and not set up teams for failure in games.

I'd like to clarify as people seem to think I am some how saying Ten Hag out and Frank in. That is not what I'm saying at all. I would happily give Ten Hag a chance under the new structure, but I can understand why they'd sack him and want their own man. Frank isn't my first choice, but I can see the reasoning behind hiring him.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I always say the LB situation was unprecedented and CB situation was also. That being said, Ten hag should have either adapted to what he had, finished higher with the resources he did have available and not set up teams for failure in games.

I'd like to clarify as people seem to think I am some how saying Ten Hag out and Frank in. That is not what I'm saying at all. I would happily give Ten Hag a chance under the new structure, but I can understand why they'd sack him and want their own man. Frank isn't my first choice, but I can see the reasoning behind hiring him.
If your contingency to your contingency to your contingency is injured I think it’s fair to say it may be a bit more difficult to just adapt and still win games without annoying people for playing negative football etc.

I’m not sure how you square recognising this is unprecedented (and therefore an incredibly unique and unexpected challenge for any manager) and yet we still have some right to expect better than 8th (9 points off a clear 4th) and an FA Cup beating Liverpool and City on the way.

I think there are standards and then there are unrealistic expectations.
 

TrebleChamp99

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Nothing today.

I think they will let this run and run I don't think there is a determined end point they will explore all options slowly.

I still think it will be Southgate and will do up until it's not.
 

Lash

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If your contingency to your contingency to your contingency is injured I think it’s fair to say it may be a bit more difficult to just adapt and still win games without annoying people for playing negative football etc.

I’m not sure how you square recognising this is unprecedented (and therefore an incredibly unique and unexpected challenge for any manager) and yet we still have some right to expect better than 8th (9 points off a clear 4th) and an FA Cup beating Liverpool and City on the way.

I think there are standards and then there are unrealistic expectations.
Because when you actually look at the dropped points this season and you actually look at a games like when we played Brentford, he should have done miles better than he did. Losing at home to Fulham, at home to Bournemouth. These are all game where we did have CBs and even had Shaw for the Bournemouth drubbing.

It's a valid footnote on the season, but it doesn't absolve him of not adapting our style of play to be less open - even when we had the players available. As I feel I need to keep repeating, I would give him a chance if I was in charge, but it's quite obvious that's not the way they're thinking. You can see why they'd want to change direction if you went game by game in a season review.
 

romufc

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Because they do not have the luxury of having a fantastic academy and also shed loads of cash - that Ten Hag has a big part in wasting.

Obviously the club, but also Ten Hag for wasting money too.
I agree they dont have cash, but you have claimed he is a fantastic coach, so why so many excuses for him?

I am looking at Brentford signings since Ten Hag has been in charge, I cant see anyone they have signed that has done well either, so Frank has wasted money too. They have not improved.

Plus Ten Hag wasting all that money, being worse coach than Frank has 2 trophies. How have Brentford fared in cup competitions?

Out third round of the FA cup both seasons to PL clubs
Third round to Gillimgham in the League cup but last season reached quarter finals

So he clearly hasn't overachieved at all, shown regression over the years rather than progression.
 

Redstain

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Echoes what Kevin P Boateng said in his interview a while back about his ability to successfully coach players individually.

I think De Zerbi is a very good candidate, I watched periods of Italy's recent game they looked fantastic, I don't think fans really grasp how much of a influence playing a positive brand of football has on the perception of a team.

Almost exclusively every single United manager post SAF has failed to replicate playing a more dominant fashion of football, it's contributing to why there's no consistency from season to season and it's the most modular modern approach to winning the domestic league.
 

Lash

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I agree they dont have cash, but you have claimed he is a fantastic coach, so why so many excuses for him?

I am looking at Brentford signings since Ten Hag has been in charge, I cant see anyone they have signed that has done well either, so Frank has wasted money too. They have not improved.

Plus Ten Hag wasting all that money, being worse coach than Frank has 2 trophies. How have Brentford fared in cup competitions?

Out third round of the FA cup both seasons to PL clubs
Third round to Gillimgham in the League cup but last season reached quarter finals

So he clearly hasn't overachieved at all, shown regression over the years rather than progression.
He is and has turned Brentford into a mainstay in the Premier League. I'm not sure what your expectations are of a Brentford manager, considering he joined them in the Championship. There aren't many excuses for him, mainly that this season he lost all his attackers for long periods of time (Schade, Toney, Mbuemo). He has taken Brentford from 11th in the Championship, to 3rd twice, 13th in the prem, 9th and then 16th.

He is not in charge of signings, because Brentford actually have a footballing structure, unlike us. As I've said, that's not Ten Hag's fault, but he's still got his hand prints on the wastage, where as Frank does not.

You're comparing Manchester United to Brentford, get some perspective.

I'm not sure why you seem to want to downplay every other managers work, it's odd. If you were as harsh on Ten Hag, he should have been binned ages ago, but they you wouldn't know who to replace him with because you'd find fault with anyone.
 

romufc

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He is and has turned Brentford into a mainstay in the Premier League. I'm not sure what your expectations are of a Brentford manager, considering he joined them in the Championship. There aren't many excuses for him, mainly that this season he lost all his attackers for long periods of time (Schade, Toney, Mbuemo). He has taken Brentford from 11th in the Championship, to 3rd twice, 13th in the prem, 9th and then 16th.

He is not in charge of signings, because Brentford actually have a footballing structure, unlike us. As I've said, that's not Ten Hag's fault, but he's still got his hand prints on the wastage, where as Frank does not.

You're comparing Manchester United to Brentford, get some perspective.

I'm not sure why you seem to want to downplay every other managers work, it's odd. If you were as harsh on Ten Hag, he should have been binned ages ago, but they you wouldn't know who to replace him with because you'd find fault with anyone.

I am not downplaying it, you are making it sound he has done something no other manager has. Actually, he took over when they were 9th, they then finished 11th, 3rd twice after that.

Well, Ten Hag also had injuries, which you ignore,.

Okay, let me throw you another team. Leverkusen beat Bayern to the league title, which is the same perspective as Brentford to Manutd.

Sebastian Hoeneß took Stuttgart from like 16th to second, similar perspective.

Frank is a good coach but he clearly knows his level which is lower PL club / championship.

Top coaches overachieve, they have cup runs, they progress the team, Frank has kept Brentford a PL club, thats good, similar to Gary O'neil.

Alot of managers have taken over Championship clubs and got them promoted. That doesn't mean they should become managers of Manchester United.

At least Gary Oneil plays better football, Thomas Frank is just a sit back and counter, which is also why he has so much joy against bigger teams.

Yes, I would find fault especially if you have people like you who are hyporcritical, saying Ten Hag goes because of negative goal difference, regression, style of play, then name someone who has come of a season where he has done worse.

Its fine to use injuries / unavailability as excuse for one club, but its not an excuse for another.

Didn't realise that injuries only affect smaller clubs not bigger clubs.
 

Kirk lazarus

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I love the way people think all journeys are exactly the same . Rodgers intenshity, to klopps gegenpress should take the same time as low block low intensity to high line, high intensity . It should also be a seamlessly smooth crossover .

As if suitable players aren't the biggest factor in any playing style .

We score the bulk of our goals a certain way , for years now , it's hard for a group of players who have reliably used that method , Bruno quick release to free Rashford or whoever to break away from it .

They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks , they say it for a reason .
 

BenitoSTARR

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Because when you actually look at the dropped points this season and you actually look at a games like when we played Brentford, he should have done miles better than he did. Losing at home to Fulham, at home to Bournemouth. These are all game where we did have CBs and even had Shaw for the Bournemouth drubbing.

It's a valid footnote on the season, but it doesn't absolve him of not adapting our style of play to be less open - even when we had the players available. As I feel I need to keep repeating, I would give him a chance if I was in charge, but it's quite obvious that's not the way they're thinking. You can see why they'd want to change direction if you went game by game in a season review.
There is a difference between having a settled back line and having a player available one week then not the next then back and out again.

We’ve not had a consistent defence the entire season it’s been the Hokey Cokey defence.

I think it’s immensely unfair to characterise this as a footnote and also absolve Frank or others from the same impacts.

The reason the likes of Newcastle, Chelsea and Liverpool struggled a bit more this season is also probably down to injury too. We just happened to have it worse relative to our squad.

I have no issue him being replaced. But I still think it’s silly to suggest it’s only a footnote given his record.
 

romufc

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There is a difference between having a settled back line and having a player available one week then not the next then back and out again.

We’ve not had a consistent defence the entire season it’s been the Hokey Cokey defence.

I think it’s immensely unfair to characterise this as a footnote and also absolve Frank or others from the same impacts.

The reason the likes of Newcastle, Chelsea and Liverpool struggled a bit more this season is also probably down to injury too. We just happened to have it worse relative to our squad.

I have no issue him being replaced. But I still think it’s silly to suggest it’s only a footnote given his record.
Dont get started with him. When I asked how comes Brentford went from 9th to 6th.. his response was they didn't have Toney for 6 months and other forwards were injured. When I said Ten Hag had injuries, I was told Manutd is a bigger club.

So in theory he thinks injuries doesn't affect bigger clubs. Almost as if he thinks Manutd has 25 WC players and Brentford has a squad of 12.

Like you said, Newcastle, Chelsea all struggled when they were constantly making changes due to injuries. Chelsea got some consistency after Poch settled on a consistent 8/9 players in the team. Shock when you are able to field a consistent 11 you get better results.
 

Lash

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I am not downplaying it, you are making it sound he has done something no other manager has. Actually, he took over when they were 9th, they then finished 11th, 3rd twice after that.

Well, Ten Hag also had injuries, which you ignore,.

Okay, let me throw you another team. Leverkusen beat Bayern to the league title, which is the same perspective as Brentford to Manutd.

Sebastian Hoeneß took Stuttgart from like 16th to second, similar perspective.

Frank is a good coach but he clearly knows his level which is lower PL club / championship.

Top coaches overachieve, they have cup runs, they progress the team, Frank has kept Brentford a PL club, thats good, similar to Gary O'neil.

Alot of managers have taken over Championship clubs and got them promoted. That doesn't mean they should become managers of Manchester United.

At least Gary Oneil plays better football, Thomas Frank is just a sit back and counter, which is also why he has so much joy against bigger teams.

Yes, I would find fault especially if you have people like you who are hyporcritical, saying Ten Hag goes because of negative goal difference, regression, style of play, then name someone who has come of a season where he has done worse.

Its fine to use injuries / unavailability as excuse for one club, but its not an excuse for another.

Didn't realise that injuries only affect smaller clubs not bigger clubs.
Have I said that? Another manager that I would say has done something very similar is Howe and he's rightfully got a chance at a bigger club in Newcastle. I don't rate Howe, but I can totally understand where he did well and why he got his move. I don't even know what your point is with that last sentence.

I don't ignore? I've said so many times I would give him a chance next season because of that being one of the factors. You can see my post above though, he still had us playing worse than Brentford when the players weren't injured and Bournemouth drubbing where he even had his first choice LB.

Leverkusen are nothing fecking like Brentford in that analogy? What are you on about?

As I've said before to you, Hoeness is good candidate and it's a fantastic achievement what he's done. It is a one off currently though.

I disagree and I bet he would to.

Who are these managers that also safely take that team to midtable? Like the one that just got the Chelsea job? or the Bayern Job? or the one I mentioned who's now Newcastle's?

You've got to be wumming now. That is literally how Gary O'Neil plays as well?

For the umpteenth time, I accept all those excuses for BOTH managers. I think Ten Hag has higher scrutiny being at a bigger club, Brentford can write off a bad season it as long as they stay in the Prem. A United manager coming 8th is pretty unacceptable, on top of crashing out of the CL - regardless of the FA Cup win. I would chalk both managers to having bad season due to bad circumstances. I think they're both good managers.
 

Lash

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There is a difference between having a settled back line and having a player available one week then not the next then back and out again.

We’ve not had a consistent defence the entire season it’s been the Hokey Cokey defence.

I think it’s immensely unfair to characterise this as a footnote and also absolve Frank or others from the same impacts.

The reason the likes of Newcastle, Chelsea and Liverpool struggled a bit more this season is also probably down to injury too. We just happened to have it worse relative to our squad.

I have no issue him being replaced. But I still think it’s silly to suggest it’s only a footnote given his record.
I can look back at the results where Evans was playing or Casemiro at the back and the carnage at the end of the season, but come on man. Look at our lineups when we played those games, go rewatch those games. We should have been miles better.

It's a footnote, because you have to take into the fact how he set us up, even with injuries and how we were playing. We were playing like shite and creating nothing. I can let him off things like the Chelsea freak loss when we're winning and the random brain farts that led us going to penalties with Coventry, but there's more than just injuries to this season.

What's strange is I am fecking pro Ten Hag and not even that bothered about Frank. I'm being lampooned for merely sticking up for a manager I think deserves a bigger job and criticisng a manager I would like to be given a chance next season!
 

Blood Mage

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The caf would have you believe that there is no coach outside of Pep/Ancelotti/Klopp/Arteta who'd be an upgrade on Ten Hag and I find that ludicrous. The only reason I'd want to keep him is if we have seriously identified Southgate as the replacement.
 
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