Who replaces Ten Hag?

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Insanity said:
I think there is a difference between "a Championship manager" and someone who is currently managing in the championship. If McKenna is a "championship manager", then Pep was a Barca B manager, Zidane was a Real Madrid Castilla manager and Arteta was an assistant. And I am no way suggesting that he'll have the same career trajectory as those guys (and I also mentioned him as a punt) but from what I have seen, his team play exciting football and his rise with a team that was in the bottom half of the League 1 when he took over to where they are now is marvelous. He also has experience coaching at this club under Ole so also has the advantage of familiarity with the club and the premier league.

To me, nothing about his career suggests that his appointment would be the "epitome of mediocrity". It would be a calculated risk (A very high risk mind you) based on his career graph so far.
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Which is what I meant. But at the end of the day, he'd still be a managerial hire from the Championship if we took him this summer, and hiring a manager that's only ever managed in lower league is mediocre. It's not exactly going out and hiring somebody that has proven they can win the biggest trophies. Hell it's not even hiring a manager that has proven they can implement a decent game plan in the PL.

Surely you recognise the issue with this when calling out the likes of De Zerbi and Howe as mediocre. I think it's even harsh on Emery also, who you called boring. I don't think Villa are boring at all. Some of these managers would absolutely school McKenna. But as I said, don't take this as me criticising McKenna, he will hopefully keep going, improving and prove himself at the top level. Then I'd like to think we'd have a good shot at getting him in the future if he turns out that good. He needs at least 1 promising season at a higher level for me.
 
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AndySmith1990 said:
Would anyone have wanted Alonso before he joined Leverkusen? I expect not. But the point is, what's wrong with taking a gamble on someone unknown in coaching? Why can't we find our own Pep or Alonso? It's incredibly narrow minded to think we should stick with some crap Dutch bloke simply because we can't get high profiles like Klopp, Ancellotti or Zidane, therefore literally no one else is suitable.
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Yep, personally think McKenna would be one of the most interesting appointments we could make this summer.
 
If ETH is replaced , unless there is an obvious manager that fits exactly what INEOs ideally want I’m ok with a kind of placeholder manager who may not be great but is good for helping rebuild things. It’s not that he might not win, but if he is moved on, whoever comes in would be inheriting a solid balanced squad.

Even though Potter doesn’t excite me in anyway, if I felt that he was that placeholder/interim, kind of manager , I’d understand.

Im just sick of this “we need to get top 4” sh*t. That’s a glazer thing and it’s a loser mentality. Squeezing into top 4 as a target is beneath us if we are the club we think we should be.

So INEOs spending an entire season or two focusing ONLY on restructuring everything at the expense of on field progression is a good idea.

Im not saying we need to finish mid table or that’s ok, I’m saying I’d rather we fix the 12 years of dysfunction right so going forward the worst season for us is finishing 4th is the worst we suffer.
 
VP89 said:
He might feel he's taken that squad as far as he can.
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Maybe, though I just don't see it. Wouldn't be adverse to it though - though, like others, do think he might be more of a "small pond" manager.

But honestly yeah, out of the actual "available" options, he'd be near the top.
 
pocco said:
Which is what I meant. But at the end of the day, he'd still be a managerial hire from the Championship if we took him this summer, and hiring a manager that's only ever managed in lower league is mediocre. It's not exactly going out and hiring somebody that has proven they can win the biggest trophies. Hell it's not even hiring a manager that has proven they can implement a decent game plan in the PL.

Surely you recognise the issue with this when calling out the likes of De Zerbi and Howe as mediocre. I think it's even harsh on Emery also, who you called boring. I don't think Villa are boring at all. Some of these managers would absolutely school McKenna. But as I said, don't take this as me criticising McKenna, he will hopefully keep going, improving and prove himself at the top level. Then I'd like to think we'd have a good shot at getting him in the future if he turns out that good. He needs at least 1 promising season at a higher level for me.
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Hmmm...I won't call it mediocre per say. I think the work he has done with Ipswich so far is stellar**. Yes, he hasn't managed at the top of the game and I am basing my preference for him being an unknown quantity as compared to Howe or DeZerbi who have managed in the top league and haven't done anything that stands out.

Howe is a decent manager. He did good work at Bournemouth, also promoting them through divisions. They played some decent football too on occasions in the premier league, but he also got relegated with them. He is doing decently with Newcastle too. 4th and 6th (likely this season) place finishes are a reasonable return with them. However, he is a known quantity and he hasn't anything outstanding so far in his lengthy career that stands out.

DeZerbi, again is a decent manager and his side can comprehensively defeat Manchester United. So, that a plus in his column as getting him would likely mean two defeats less each season. Other than that, his sides don't show the consistency for him to be considered a top manager. He can beat a team 4-0 but then very easily lost the next game with the same kind of scoreline.

Emery to me comes across as a typical big fish in a small pond. He did well with sides that were the underdogs and he seems to be a champion in winning the Europa league with these mid-table Spanish sides. His work with the big clubs doesn't have anything extra-ordinary. He wasn't very good at PSG and same at Arsenal. I think he could be an outstanding candidate if we are looking for a cup manager. Otherwise, not so much.

My preference for McKenna is based a little bit on his work with Ipswich, a little bit on the praise he got as an outstanding coach with us and admittedly on a lot of faith. I also don't believe that he necessarily needs to prove himself with Ipswich for one season, if they get promoted, before he can be considered. Luck plays a huge part in one's career. Sometimes you can be at the right place at the right time and shine. And at other times you can be an outstanding candidate who gets struck in the wrong situation.

Like I said, if Ancelotti, Zidane, Enrique, Inzaghi or Alonso were available, then we should definitely go with one of them. However, if none of those three were available, then I don't mind giving McKenna or Motta a go.

(**I hope I am not jinxing him as him winning the promotion with Ipswich would make this season of football somewhat bearable for me...so *Knock knock*)
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Would anyone have wanted Alonso before he joined Leverkusen? I expect not. But the point is, what's wrong with taking a gamble on someone unknown in coaching? Why can't we find our own Pep or Alonso? It's incredibly narrow minded to think we should stick with some crap Dutch bloke simply because we can't get high profiles like Klopp, Ancellotti or Zidane, therefore literally no one else is suitable.
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Well Xabi Alonso wasn't really an unknown, but yeah it would have been crazy to appoint him Man United manager straight from his job at the Real Sociedad B team. Still every manager he played under said he was a player with extremely high football intelligence, and he learned from Guardiola and Mourinho, so it makes sense that he's been such a success.

You can't go pull some random bloke managing in the third tier who's doing decently and expect him to come in a be successful. The ones who become elite level managers are very very rare. It's just not a smart gamble.

I also don't really see why Eddie Howe is derided as an option. Most of his signings for Newcastle and Bournemouth were pretty good and his teams typically play good football. I think De Zerbi is a better option because you need someone to come in and add real structure and organization, but could do a lot worse than Howe honestly. If I had a choice between Howe or Ten Hag managing spurs I'd definitely take Howe based on what I've seen the last two seasons.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Maybe, though I just don't see it. Wouldn't be adverse to it though - though, like others, do think he might be more of a "small pond" manager.

But honestly yeah, out of the actual "available" options, he'd be near the top.
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For me Nagelsmann is best and he's quite straight forward to get.

However I wonder whether INEOS are just not well informed enough about him to make a move.

Gary O Neill is a complete outside shout, who I do rate but is definitely not ready for a top club. He should move to a West Ham first and see how he goes there. I mentioned him because INEOS reportedly had talks with him as part of the coaching set up.
 
pocco said:
Not going to argue with who you prefer, but it is fascinating how you have written off a long list of very good managers there, and landed on McKenna of Ipswich Town. You can't say RDZ and Eddie Howe, for example, "reeks of mediocrity" and then suggest we hire a championship manager that has yet to do anything at the top level.

Fair enough if you'd given the rest their dues, but I'd argue that, by your logic, McKenna would be the epitome of mediocrity, even though I don't necessarily think that.

My own opinion on McKenna is that we can't hire him next unless he's one of only a few options. I'd give him time to establish himself with a view that, if he proves himself, he's an option for the future.
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McKenna is 38 this year, he has time on his side and I would rather not burn him at the top level by hiring him in the middle of this mess. ETH, when he leaves (which I still think won't be this year), will leave us in a very poor state and in need of rebuild, this is not a job that you want this early into your career.

Then again this is also how Pep and Arteta started, they both got big jobs when they were barely 40, with even less experience than McKenna, and both succeeded.
 
VP89 said:
For me Nagelsmann is best and he's quite straight forward to get.

However I wonder whether INEOS are just not well informed enough about him to make a move.

Gary O Neill is a complete outside shout, who I do rate but is definitely not ready for a top club. He should move to a West Ham first and see how he goes there. I mentioned him because INEOS reportedly had talks with him as part of the coaching set up.
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O'Neil is like the last resort type of hire. I'd not mind giving him a shot but it has a much higher risk of failure and ultimately probably not the right timing for this type of hire either, he's the sort of manager that a well oiled club could employ. Failing here would not break his career though, and he's at the stage of his career where he could maybe entertain this idea even if it was with a mere view of holding the job for just 2-3 years.
 
VP89 said:
For me Nagelsmann is best and he's quite straight forward to get.

However I wonder whether INEOS are just not well informed enough about him to make a move.

Gary O Neill is a complete outside shout, who I do rate but is definitely not ready for a top club. He should move to a West Ham first and see how he goes there. I mentioned him because INEOS reportedly had talks with him as part of the coaching set up.
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Based on everything that’s happened since Christmas Eve when they were officially announced as new part owners and new operators of the club, INEOS seem much more well informed than probably a lot of fans thought , especially the calibre of people they’re looking to hire at senior management level and these plans for a new stadium and renovating the surround Old Trafford area so quickly, make it seem like they’ve been planning this for a long time.

I think the key man in their outfit is Jean-Claude Blanc. With him there advising, it should mean that they should be fairly on the ball with the European football environment, coupled with Brailsford who’s from an elite level sporting background and has had recent experience making that transition into understanding football performance metrics with Nice.
 
Sarni said:
O'Neil is like the last resort type of hire. I'd not mind giving him a shot but it has a much higher risk of failure and ultimately probably not the right timing for this type of hire either, he's the sort of manager that a well oiled club could employ. Failing here would not break his career though, and he's at the stage of his career where he could maybe entertain this idea even if it was with a mere view of holding the job for just 2-3 years.
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I prefer O Neil to De Zerbi, the latter reportedly being out the picture only because of the money required in breaking his contract?
 
VP89 said:
I prefer O Neil to De Zerbi, the latter reportedly being out the picture only because of the money required in breaking his contract?
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I would be surprised if that's a factor, those fees are usually quite small anyway and would not even buy you a squad player. If we are really convinced a manager is a worthwhile appointment, even the most expensive of them are affordable. The most expensive ever was Nagelsmann from Leipzig to Bayern at that cost £20m, which is double of what we paid to loan Amrabat for a year and basically a price of an average backup defender/midfielder (wouldn't be able to buy any striker for that though).
 
Sarni said:
I would be surprised if that's a factor, those fees are usually quite small anyway and would not even buy you a squad player. If we are really convinced a manager is a worthwhile appointment, even the most expensive of them are affordable. The most expensive ever was Nagelsmann from Leipzig to Bayern at that cost £20m, which is double of what we paid to loan Amrabat for a year and basically a price of an average backup defender/midfielder (wouldn't be able to buy any striker for that though).
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I think De Zerbi is £12m?
I agree for the right manager it's small. But there's a fair bit of uncertainty with him too.
 
VP89 said:
For me Nagelsmann is best and he's quite straight forward to get.

However I wonder whether INEOS are just not well informed enough about him to make a move.

Gary O Neill is a complete outside shout, who I do rate but is definitely not ready for a top club. He should move to a West Ham first and see how he goes there. I mentioned him because INEOS reportedly had talks with him as part of the coaching set up.
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Agree with this as well. Experienced in managing a big club and in European competitions. He should be the person we are going for.
 
Sacking ETH in the summer, or when CL qualification is out of reach, is going to cost what, £10m - £15m?

Bearing in mind we won't have any european fottball next season, our finances are very limited. And we need a couple of players too.

So, who ever comes in is going to have to be cheap (not wages as such but aquiring them).

Potter - free
Emery - middle of contract and would cost a lot, plus why would he?
Nagglesman - Free after the Euros?
Araola - Not sure what his contract is like at BFC, but I doubt it's huge. My personal choice right now.
O'Neill - as above but he's starting to struggle a bit in the PL
Touchel - Free but we need to leave well alone
Zidane - Free but why would he come and I'm not convinced. He won alot but with a very, very good squad.
Amourin - Rumours that his contract needs paying to the tune of £15m. We can't afford him.
McKenna - contract would probably be affordable. My second favorite behind Araola.

People keep throwing big names around but the financial ramifications of sacking ETH is huge and it's potentially like signing a player. Let's hope there is a non CL clause in his contract which makes paying him off cheaper.

I hope the club are bold rather than sensible in this appointment. I don't want a failed PL manager coming in as we just won't give him the time as supporters.
 
soapythecat said:
People keep throwing big names around but the financial ramifications of sacking ETH is huge
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Since when?

He's got one year left on his deal, and we've been reported as putting clauses in manager's contracts that mean they can be sacked with a much reduced payoff if we fail to qualify for the CL.
 
Moyes > Not good enough.
LVG > Boring but won FA CUP.
Jose > 2nd, Europa League, League Cup, FA Cup final lost and players chucked him under a bus.
Ole> Players chucked him under a bus.
Ralph Rajnik> Players chucked him under a bus, got Austria to the euro's.
ETH> Players chucking him under a bus.

Who's next, we can't keep doing this, toxic players still at the club namely Rashford.

Can't expect this guy to fix 10 years of mess in 1 year, this is his 2nd year, going to need more time.

There is definitely something here, look at the first 20-30mins against Liverpool in the fa cup, should have been 3 up in 20mins if it weren't for players crap finishing.

At the moment he just can't find that balance, its slow process finished 3rd last year, this year probably 6th 7th, that's how its going to be for a while, a few 3rd 4th 5th.

Klopp finished 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd in his first 4 seasons.
 
I'd love to keep Ten Hag, but in order to keep him, we need to get rid of a couple of players just to show the intention. I was absolutely amazed by how unprofessional our players were against Bournemouth.
 
singhters said:
Moyes > Not good enough.
LVG > Boring but won FA CUP.
Jose > 2nd, Europa League, League Cup, FA Cup final lost and players chucked him under a bus.
Ole> Players chucked him under a bus.
Ralph Rajnik> Players chucked him under a bus, got Austria to the euro's.
ETH> Players chucking him under a bus.

Who's next, we can't keep doing this, toxic players still at the club namely Rashford.

Can't expect this guy to fix 10 years of mess in 1 year, this is his 2nd year, going to need more time.

There is definitely something here, look at the first 20-30mins against Liverpool in the fa cup, should have been 3 up in 20mins if it weren't for players crap finishing.

At the moment he just can't find that balance, its slow process finished 3rd last year, this year probably 6th 7th, that's how its going to be for a while, a few 3rd 4th 5th.

Klopp finished 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd in his first 4 seasons.
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You are leaving out certain things. Liverpool under Klopp finished 8th in his first season, but he started during the season and reached the final of the Europaleague. Then they finished in the top 4. 3rd season 4th and CL final. So it was improvement upon improvement season by season. And if you watched them, they got better on the pitch as well. It was no up and down season by season, but the trend was up year by year. With ETH now, we are crashing. This does not happen with a top manager. You can stagnate a bit during a season, but usually the trend shows improvements shortly after it.

Next season under ETH might be better, or worse, or as worse. Nobody knows, there are no indications that it might get better. The only consequence is sacking him. Too risky to continue and no signs of improvement.

People would be happy if we secured CL this season and showed improvements on the pitch. That would give him another season for sure. We have been subpar all season long, terrible for months and are finishing in the Conference league.
 
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I don't think Ineos will see McKenna as a big enough name. Reckon they'll see him as too much of a gamble, ie if he's struggling by Xmas then the knives will be out and the media/fans will be ridiculing them for picking an inexperienced coach.
 
One name I haven't seen mentioned much is Xavi.

Just had a few years at Barca so is he going on sabbatical or going to manage in Saudi land?

Barca aren't what they were but in the post Messi era he's still lead them to a league title and they're actually in a pretty good position to make CL final now given their first leg lead over PSG and potentially having Atletico Madrid as SF opponents who they have an exceptional record against.

He also talked of loving the Premier league growing up so if you're going to appoint an up and coming coach I think he's a decent outside tip unless he wants a break.
 
singhters said:
Moyes > Not good enough.
LVG > Boring but won FA CUP.
Jose > 2nd, Europa League, League Cup, FA Cup final lost and players chucked him under a bus.
Ole> Players chucked him under a bus.
Ralph Rajnik> Players chucked him under a bus, got Austria to the euro's.
ETH> Players chucking him under a bus.

Who's next, we can't keep doing this, toxic players still at the club namely Rashford.

Can't expect this guy to fix 10 years of mess in 1 year, this is his 2nd year, going to need more time.

There is definitely something here, look at the first 20-30mins against Liverpool in the fa cup, should have been 3 up in 20mins if it weren't for players crap finishing.

At the moment he just can't find that balance, its slow process finished 3rd last year, this year probably 6th 7th, that's how its going to be for a while, a few 3rd 4th 5th.

Klopp finished 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd in his first 4 seasons.
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Yeah but when you watch Klopp's Liverpool you could see the progress and potential, the problem was early days they were inconsistent, would have blips against some poor opposition but even when they were doing this there was something you could see and could get behind (if you were a pool fan that is), and even at their worst they were not conceding 20+ shots a game

Right now with ETH the football has zero identity, other than pure chaos, 1st season was more akin to Klopp, we were no way near the finished article but you could see potential, this season ETH has tried to change things, maybe too soon and it has all collapsed.

For me with football, you can throw the stats out, you can even for a short time ignore results, but you cannot ignore what you see played out before you, maybe ETH with the right player (akin to Klopp getting VVD) might suddenly make everything click, but as we stand I just do not have the faith that will happen, because we are directionless and relying on individuals to produce moments of brilliance out of nothing.
 
soapythecat said:
Sacking ETH in the summer, or when CL qualification is out of reach, is going to cost what, £10m - £15m?

Bearing in mind we won't have any european fottball next season, our finances are very limited. And we need a couple of players too.

So, who ever comes in is going to have to be cheap (not wages as such but aquiring them).

Potter - free
Emery - middle of contract and would cost a lot, plus why would he?
Nagglesman - Free after the Euros?
Araola - Not sure what his contract is like at BFC, but I doubt it's huge. My personal choice right now.
O'Neill - as above but he's starting to struggle a bit in the PL
Touchel - Free but we need to leave well alone
Zidane - Free but why would he come and I'm not convinced. He won alot but with a very, very good squad.
Amourin - Rumours that his contract needs paying to the tune of £15m. We can't afford him.
McKenna - contract would probably be affordable. My second favorite behind Araola.

People keep throwing big names around but the financial ramifications of sacking ETH is huge and it's potentially like signing a player. Let's hope there is a non CL clause in his contract which makes paying him off cheaper.

I hope the club are bold rather than sensible in this appointment. I don't want a failed PL manager coming in as we just won't give him the time as supporters.
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Out of all the above the only one I'd be interested in is Emery, if he can be poached.

I disliked his Sevilla and Villareal teams, and he failed at PSG/Arsenal but he's proven with Villa he's good enough for the PL and can play aggressive football.

Nagelsmann is still a bit of unknown quantity, he okay at Bayern but most managers do. Tuchel is toxic. Zidane doesn't seem bothered about coaching anywhere but Real. McKenna could work out but is a massive risk for us and him at this stage in his career. Potter doesn't have the personality.

edit: not mentioned, but could see Xavi at the club if he does well in the CL and has a strong finish in La Liga this season.
 
FootballHQ said:
One name I haven't seen mentioned much is Xavi.

Just had a few years at Barca so is he going on sabbatical or going to manage in Saudi land?

Barca aren't what they were but in the post Messi era he's still lead them to a league title and they're actually in a pretty good position to make CL final now given their first leg lead over PSG and potentially having Atletico Madrid as SF opponents who they have an exceptional record against.

He also talked of loving the Premier league growing up so if you're going to appoint an up and coming coach I think he's a decent outside tip unless he wants a break.
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He came to my mind as well recently and I wondered why he wasn’t linked with us, despite being the most available of all candidates with exception of Potter.

And ironically one of his parting shots when he announced he was leaving Barcelona to the press was something along the lines ‘You keep asking if I‘m going to be the Ferguson of Barcelona, the truth is you won’t allow that to happen and no-one can with all the unrealistic demands proposed’.

He’d definitely command the respect of the players and based on that above parting shot, he’s not afraid to speak his mind.
 
Chairman Steve said:
He came to my mind as well recently and I wondered why he wasn’t linked with us, despite being the most available of all candidates with exception of Potter.

And ironically one of his parting shots when he announced he was leaving Barcelona to the press was something along the lines ‘You keep asking if I‘m going to be the Ferguson of Barcelona, the truth is you won’t allow that to happen and no-one can with all the unrealistic demands proposed’.

He’d definitely command the respect of the players and based on that above parting shot, he’s not afraid to speak his mind.
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Imagine if he became a Ferguson for United hey
 
If you go for someone young and exciting with the squad being in it's current state you are asking for trouble.

The perfect manager doesn't exist! but ideally you want someone who is experienced but not jaded.

Then you have to accept it will take time and not expect every decision or transfer they make to be a successful one. The manager needs to be able to fail and put it right.
 
Sean Dyche would be the perfect fit. A manager experienced in getting the best out of rubbish players.
 
soapythecat said:
Sacking ETH in the summer, or when CL qualification is out of reach, is going to cost what, £10m - £15m?
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ETH is apparently on about £9m a year with only one year left on his contract, and we normally have clauses in the managers contract where they are cheaper to sack if they fail to get CL. So it'd probably cost about £5m. Maybe add another million or so for the rest of his coaching team. So not that much.

Meanwhile, if we fail to finish in the top 4 or 5 next season it'll cost us far, far more than that. Our biggest sponsor (and likely many of our sponsors) have clauses in the contract where the amount they pay us drops dramatically if we fail to make the CL two years in a row. Combine that with the loss of prizemoney and television money, and failing to qualify for the CL again would cost us at least £40m (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was over £50m).

So even if it does cost us a bit to sack ETH and bring in the right replacement, it would easily be worth it financially if it's the difference between making the CL or not.
 
RuudTom83 said:
If you go for someone young and exciting with the squad being in it's current state you are asking for trouble.

The perfect manager doesn't exist! but ideally you want someone who is experienced but not jaded.

Then you have to accept it will take time and not expect every decision or transfer they make to be a successful one. The manager needs to be able to fail and put it right.
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This is something our fan base (in general) never seem to get.

Among Liverpool's first signings with Klopp in charge are: Grujic, Caulker (loan), Karius, Klavan and Solanke. Since then, they've paid fairly large fees for the likes of Keita and Nunez.

Among Arsenal's first signings with Arteta in charge are: Mari, Cedric, Willian, Tavares and Lokonga. Could even add Ramsdale to that list.

Among City's first signings with Guardiola in charge are: Nolito, Bravo, Danilo and Mendy. Since then, Torres and Phillips have had very short stints at the club, and even Sane and Cancelo have expensively come and gone, even if they were decent while they were there.
 
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