Bubz27
No I won’t change your tag line
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
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- 21,573
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Fergie pretty much said a Guardiola side was the best he’d ever faced himself so I dunno about that…Neither are fit to lace fergie's shoes atm.
I agree that the backroom structure also contributes hugely to success in modern circumstances. In the specific case of Liverpool though, I think they struck gold with Klopp; I remember reading from places, for example by @Adnan here, that it was Klopp who placed his trust in the likes of Michael Edwards, who had been until then been kept at arm's length by Rodgers. If that is the case, then I am curious to see the day Klopp leaves and how that set-up at Liverpool will handle the succession plan.The first thing to say is that they are elite managers, they have clarity of vision, fantastic tactical acumen and the charisma/personality and emotional intelligence to get the best out of a squad of elite multi-millionaire footballers.
All that being said, and this is absolutely crucial.....they have fantastic backroom teams supporting them, without which they wouldn't be able to be half as successful.
Rangnick talked recently about the English obsession with the 'manager', which he called 'the Cult of the Manager. Article here - https://www.skysports.com/football/...-manager-transfers-and-taking-on-jurgen-klopp
Clearly, Ralf has been reading my posts for years and has taken note, since I have been making this same point now since 2018
TLDR - a modern 'manager' is just the cherry on the icing on the cake. We need to stop attributing success or failure solely to the manager.
Of course that side was the best ive seen, if not for them we'd have a couple more cl's to our name. That aside im on the longevity and continued success of saf that is yet to be surpassed.Fergie pretty much said a Guardiola side was the best he’d ever faced himself so I dunno about that…
I think you are right.What is that X factor they have that makes them so good?
My hot take is that in their own different ways they are both the perfect modern man managers - both in terms of dealing with players and creating the staff around them.
This might seem obvious, but people seem to think that Fergie's retirement was the end of the man-manager and its all about coaching and systems. And of course it is about that. But the irony is that what makes Pep and Klopp so successful and able to sustain that success is still how they deal with the human beings around them. In other words, football will always be about human qualities: spirit and character and effort and determination and despite all the pizzazz, their ability to tap into that in their players is what makes them stand far above the rest.
Good post, in the end of the day , man managing is still the most important part of football, hell hag said it in his interview (something about being a physiologist and knowing his players attitude).What is that X factor they have that makes them so good?
My hot take is that in their own different ways they are both the perfect modern man managers - both in terms of dealing with players and creating the staff around them.
This might seem obvious, but people seem to think that Fergie's retirement was the end of the man-manager and its all about coaching and systems. And of course it is about that. But the irony is that what makes Pep and Klopp so successful and able to sustain that success is still how they deal with the human beings around them. In other words, football will always be about human qualities: spirit and character and effort and determination and despite all the pizzazz, their ability to tap into that in their players is what makes them stand far above the rest.
I don't think it comes down to luck when he's now done it with two clubs.You don't really need to ask with Pep? Infinite money and a system of play that near guarantees league titles.
Klopp has been fortunate, few injuries apart from VVD last year, their signings have pretty much all worked, which is at least partly luck and they're also getting "help" to keep up with City imo. League would be way too dull otherwise. Can they keep it up? Let's see if Salah stays and how long Klopp does too.
Pep will never manage another English club, he said that himself numerous times. Italy is an option for him - he played there at Brescia and Roma, knows Italian perfectly and is aware of the football culture there. Now where exactly is a difficult question. Juventus wanted him several times. AC Milan also. It will be funny to go to Inter and be successfull at Jose's club or to succeed Mourinho himself at Roma.. I dont see him managing Napoli or Lazio but who knows.. International football is his next very step after City in my opinion but Italy still will be an option for his career in the future.Pep has impressed me, there was that period in bayern and early city where I thought people had figured him out, but he is as strong as ever.
His peak achievements are still weaker than those of prime mou in my humble opinion, but his longevity puts him at top (mou was world class from 2003 to 2014 while pep has continually been so since 2008) he also doesn't have that third season meltdown.
Hopefully our hag puts an end to this, i also feel this has to be pep's last club football job as there isn't anywhere left to go unless he throws away all his loyalties and goes to Newcastle.
(Said won't go back to Barca nad Madrid is a no no, Italy doesn't have the financial muscle anymore and he already coached bayern and I don't think they want him back. Psg is also option but doesn't look like it)
It doesn't matter if Salah stays or goes, they'll just find a proper replacement for him. They're in that sort of the moment when everything goes right for them and deservedly so.You don't really need to ask with Pep? Infinite money and a system of play that near guarantees league titles.
Klopp has been fortunate, few injuries apart from VVD last year, their signings have pretty much all worked, which is at least partly luck and they're also getting "help" to keep up with City imo. League would be way too dull otherwise. Can they keep it up? Let's see if Salah stays and how long Klopp does too.
I'm well aware of the Italy link but here's the thing, as good as manager he is , he would want to compete in Europe, and those teams simply don't have the budget for it , the best and most capable of them lot, juve is in a mess and frankly if he was to go there he would need to overhaul the entire squad, just not possible with their finances.Pep will never manage another English club, he said that himself humerous times. Italy is an option for him - he played there at Brescia and Roma, knows Italian perfectly and is aware of the football culture there. Now where exactly is a difficult question. Juventus wanted him several times. AC Milan also. It will be funny to go to Inter and be successfull at Jose's club or to succeed Mourinho himself at Roma.. I dont see him managing Napoli or Lazio but who knows.. International football is his next very step after City in my opinion but Italy still will be an option for his career in the future.
Not sure if Italy has the money and prestige for Guardiola these days. Juventus perhaps but they'd have to pull out all the stops and Guardiola would have to take a pay cut himself, no way Juve offer more money than City will, when the time comes.Pep will never manage another English club, he said that himself numerous times. Italy is an option for him - he played there at Brescia and Roma, knows Italian perfectly and is aware of the football culture there. Now where exactly is a difficult question. Juventus wanted him several times. AC Milan also. It will be funny to go to Inter and be successfull at Jose's club or to succeed Mourinho himself at Roma.. I dont see him managing Napoli or Lazio but who knows.. International football is his next very step after City in my opinion but Italy still will be an option for his career in the future.
Even after those players have proven themselves, they still want to go another level up and play for team. Its crazy to see Salah and KDB doing their defensive duties with same enthusiasm.They don't carry players and all their best players are at their peak. How many players in their 30s do they both have playing in their best 11s? There's also no Ronaldo, Messi or Neymar in their teams, they don't fit the pressing or cohesive system. The biggest stars on either team are probably De Bruyne and Salah. De Bruyne is the ultimate team player as well. This is why I disagree with the notion of 'if X star player was in their team, they'd score 50 goals'. That's not how these teams work. The very reason why they're so successful in this model is that they don't have players like that. Look at Jota and Diaz for Liverpool so far. They buy hungry players with something to prove.
Klopp has had multiple + 90pt seasonsGuardiola's football is better for the league, Klopp for the CL. Ferguson had 26 years at United and won 2 CLs and lost 2 finals. I'd guess in the same amount of time, Guardiola, who has 0 wins and 1 finals loss, would end up about the same. The 3 best managers of the Prem era, Wenger and Mourinho fighting for 4th because they couldn't make it last. Not sure who would be 6th, but it's a massive gap and you have to start thinking about Big Sam and Moyes and at that point best to stop.
For some reason I have this feeling inside me this guy wants to ruin our legacy. He wants to beat the treble our greatest ever season putting them on 7 ucl and us way behind them. Then he wants to go past 20. Then I feel he will leave. There is talks he wants to extend. And I think that is scaryYou don't really need to ask with Pep? Infinite money and a system of play that near guarantees league titles.
Klopp has been fortunate, few injuries apart from VVD last year, their signings have pretty much all worked, which is at least partly luck and they're also getting "help" to keep up with City imo. League would be way too dull otherwise. Can they keep it up? Let's see if Salah stays and how long Klopp does too.
I could see Pep ending up at AC Milan if the take-over from Bahrain goes through.Not sure if Italy has the money and prestige for Guardiola these days. Juventus perhaps but they'd have to pull out all the stops and Guardiola would have to take a pay cut himself, no way Juve offer more money than City will, when the time comes.
This all day long.They don't carry players and all their best players are at their peak. How many players in their 30s do they both have playing in their best 11s? There's also no Ronaldo, Messi or Neymar in their teams, they don't fit the pressing or cohesive system. The biggest stars on either team are probably De Bruyne and Salah. De Bruyne is the ultimate team player as well. This is why I disagree with the notion of 'if X star player was in their team, they'd score 50 goals'. That's not how these teams work. The very reason why they're so successful in this model is that they don't have players like that. Look at Jota and Diaz for Liverpool so far. They buy hungry players with something to prove.
Klopp's methods "didn't work" until he was allowed to sign the at the time best GK, CB and DM for the best part of £200m.Pep - usually has technical players on another level to his opposition either via inheritance or spending 1 billion. His ways would not work without having superior players to every opponent.
Klopp - German Sir Alex Ferguson
This is a good point as well.On top of being two most tactically astute managers out there, they also have incredible personality. Their tactical knowledge helps quite a lot too.
Aura of their personality would quickly disperse around them should they become tactically outdated. When Mourinho was tactically on top, he was darling and Special One, when he lost it, he became sore loser. And personality wise, it's not like he extremely changed.
At least it was still jam. When Ole was Scarlett's agent she would frequently sneak into my bedroom and smear marmite all over herself. Personally I love marmite but my wife doesn't, and due to our open relationship with RiP we collectively agreed that if we weren't all involved then no one could be.If any of that goes missing, so does the magic, and you get Scarlett Johansson covered in the wrong jam.
Alisson ans especially VVD fees are heavily inflated by the Coutinho transfer (and the weird VVD bribing saga), don't think that any club were willing to pay those prices they paid at the time, and I don't think any person would consider VVD and Fabinho anywhere near the best players in their positions when they were bought respectively (didn't people mock Liverpool for the VVD fee back then?). Kinda similar to how your world-record GK Kepa was overpaid even at that time because of the Courtois transfer, no?Klopp's methods "didn't work" until he was allowed to sign the at the time best GK, CB and DM for the best part of £200m.
All round Jose is so far a better manager than Klopp. Jose has won a treble with Inter, leagues in multiple countries(Along with retaining a PL which Klopp has yet to do) and won the CL with Porto.Guardiola's football is better for the league, Klopp for the CL. Ferguson had 26 years at United and won 2 CLs and lost 2 finals. I'd guess in the same amount of time, Guardiola, who has 0 wins and 1 finals loss, would end up about the same. The 3 best managers of the Prem era, Wenger and Mourinho fighting for 4th because they couldn't make it last. Not sure who would be 6th, but it's a massive gap and you have to start thinking about Big Sam and Moyes and at that point best to stop.
because he inherited a team in 7th. He got to 2 finals off the bat.Klopp's methods "didn't work" until he was allowed to sign the at the time best GK, CB and DM for the best part of £200m.