Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

[Enigma_87]

What excuses you have found for Jose? Everything. It's too huge to even list. Go and search with your user name and Jose, it will give all the results. Biggest one was 'he wasn't backed'

Posting last season's link

No, you are struggling with basic intelligence here. It's easy to see that Ole will say positive things about his team, squad, club.

He wasn't backed last season, but he didn't spend 150-160m didn't he? When he became negative I've said along with everybody he deserved his faith and was rightfully sacked.

As I said all what you say is your interpretation. When Ole comes out and says he's happy with the squad the onus is on him. For any sane person that is.

Let's see the plethora of the excuses that will come up with your user name at the end of the season when all is said and done

 

[fergiesarmy1]

And as on the pitch Ole does not have a backup plan resulting in what we have now.

He had the whole summer to identify replacements for Lukaku.

Im sure he had a list and got none because of a hopeless scruffy former banker regularly failing to sign these targets unless he brings his wheel barrow with him.

 

[romufc]

He wasn't backed last season, but he didn't spend 150-160m didn't he? When he became negative I've said along with everybody he deserved his faith and was rightfully sacked.

The reason he wasn't backed is that he wanted a CB, his first choice was Godin.

You can't keep backing someone who continues to fail.

Jose was backed in his first 2 windows and in January. His signings did not perform. He started to fall out with Shaw, Pogba, Martial etc and started doing dumb shit like playing McT in CB.

When you are a Manutd manager, you dont throw your toys out the pram when someone says you cant have more because all you do is waste. You go out there and prove them wrong.

 

[Enigma_87]

The reason he wasn't backed is that he wanted a CB, his first choice was Godin.

You can't keep backing someone who continues to fail.

Agreed. He did get us to 2nd though, hence his methods were working at the time. If you are to back him you shouldn't question his choices or sack him. Can't be both. He was given a new contract then questioned whether those targets were right. Makes no sense.

Jose was backed in his first 2 windows and in January. His signings did not perform. He started to fall out with Shaw, Pogba, Martial etc and started doing dumb shit like playing McT in CB.

When you are a Manutd manager, you dont throw your toys out the pram when someone says you cant have more because all you do is waste. You go out there and prove them wrong.

No one said otherwise. He deserved his fate and was rightfully sacked at the end. Said all that last season as well.

 

[roonster09]

He wasn't backed last season, but he didn't spend 150-160m didn't he? When he became negative I've said along with everybody he deserved his faith and was rightfully sacked.

As I said all what you say is your interpretation. When Ole comes out and says he's happy with the squad the onus is on him. For any sane person that is.

Let's see the plethora of the excuses that will come up with your user name at the end of the season when all is said and done

So it's Ole's fault that replacement for Lukaku is not signed, even though he said outgoing players should be replaced (when asked about Lukaku and Pogba leaving) but it's not Jose's fault that we didnt sign CB last season? It was Woodward's fault. This is what I'm talking about, it's always someone else's mistake, not Jose's.

Ole will say he is happy with the squad, just like how he said he was happy with Lukaku, Sanchez and few more players. He is not toxic cnut like Jose to moan in the media.

We have started the rebuild and paying the price for all the mistakes in the past season.

 

[romufc]

Can't be both. He was given a new contract then questioned whether those targets were right. Makes no sense.

That is Ed Woodward for you, there was NO reason whatsoever to give Jose another contract.

The club failed in that regard.

 

[roonster09]

That is Ed Woodward for you, there was NO reason whatsoever to give Jose another contract.

The club failed in that regard.

Yeah, one of the biggest mistake we did. Jose flirted with PSG, Woodward panicked and offered him new contract.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Think it worked out about a £70 million net spend which is peanuts in 2019, just wait till we are playing defenders up front. That will be the confirmation needed to everyone that we are being run into the ground by owners and CEO who don’t give a shit as they will all be gone as some point while we are still trying to recover.

If he knew we couldn't get replacements in, then he shouldn't of sold them.
He said he was happy with the squad. He has made his bed with that statement and now he needs to lie in it.

 

[Foxtrot]

The club should have fired Ed and backed Jose or else we wouldn't have landed in such a shite situation now. This would also be a big statement out to the players that no one is bigger than the manager.

 

[romufc]

Yeah, one of the biggest mistake we did. Jose flirted with PSG, Woodward panicked and offered him new contract.

The money to pay out should have been accounted to Ed Woodward.

How that man gets a bonus year in year out after all these blunders tells you what you need to of how the club is run.

What example do you think that sets down when the CEO is not being held accountable?

Then he comes out with bullshet like we can do things others can only wish in the transfer market.. fair enough if you will spend but if you are not going to, there was no need because agents and players will be wanting more.

 

[roonster09]

The club should have fired Ed and backed Jose or else we wouldn't have landed in such a shite situation now. This would also be a big statement out to the players that no one is bigger than the manager.

No club is going to side with manager instead of players, especially the manager who didn't achieve much for the club. It's easy to replace the manager than players.

Also backing Jose wasn't the solution either. it's not as if his attitude was spot on, if anything, he showed how rotten his attitude was. Not the manager you want to back.

 

[roonster09]

The money to pay out should have been accounted to Ed Woodward.

How that man gets a bonus year in year out after all these blunders tells you what you need to of how the club is run.

What example do you think that sets down when the CEO is not being held accountable?

Then he comes out with bullshet like we can do things others can only wish in the transfer market.. fair enough if you will spend but if you are not going to, there was no need because agents and players will be wanting more.

Yeah, made too many mistakes, biggest of them all is hiring wrong managers. Even though it looked easy choice back then, people at such big position to see beyond obvious options.

 

[Enigma_87]

So it's Ole's fault that replacement for Lukaku is not signed, even though he said outgoing players should be replaced (when asked about Lukaku and Pogba leaving) but it's not Jose's fault that we didnt sign CB last season? It was Woodward's fault. This is what I'm talking about, it's always someone else's mistake, not Jose's.

Ole will say he is happy with the squad, just like how he said he was happy with Lukaku, Sanchez and few more players. He is not toxic cnut like Jose to moan in the media.

We have started the rebuild and paying the price for all the mistakes in the past season.

Mate, you can find excuses all you want. The manager is still responsible for the squad he has at his disposal when the club spends 150-160m pounds.

The manager is also still responsible for what he says and presents to the supporters in interviews you are making stuff up for him "in the background".

What is important is that when you come out and say you are happy with it and the results don't show it at the end of the month/year/season you have to bear the consequences and not come up with the excuse "he wasn't backed", when he spent 160m pounds.

 

[Enigma_87]

That is Ed Woodward for you, there was NO reason whatsoever to give Jose another contract.

The club failed in that regard.

Especially when he had time on the last. Unless he was looking long term plan, but then it makes even less sense not to back him in the Summer.

Look, I'd be over the moon if we sell/sack Ed, I'd even be happy with Ole for another year or two or three, but that is not realistic for me, we seriously can't make it happen.

 

[roonster09]

Mate, you can find excuses all you want. The manager is still responsible for the squad he has at his disposal when the club spends 150-160m pounds.

The manager is also still responsible for what he says and presents to the supporters in interviews you are making stuff up for him "in the background".

What is important is that when you come out and say you are happy with it and the results don't show it at the end of the month/year/season you have to bear the consequences and not come up with the excuse "he wasn't backed", when he spent 160m pounds.

What excuses? I have said if he doesn't get top 4 then he should leave. Doesn't mean he got what he wanted, maybe you are too much used to Jose that you think every manager deals with issues in the press.

If manager is responsible for what he says, then how come Jose gets so many excuses when he said "Finally squad is his and it is ready to challenge for title"?

Why is Ole's interview where he said if Lukaku and Pogba leaves, then we need replacements is ignored? Maybe he should have moaned in the media or used his media friends like Jose did. He won't though, as he is like SAF, he thinks it's his club and keeps everything out of media coverage.

Funny how Ole not acting like a twat is used against him.

 

[romufc]

Especially when he had time on the last. Unless he was looking long term plan, but then it makes even less sense not to back him in the Summer.

Look, I'd be over the moon if we sell/sack Ed, I'd even be happy with Ole for another year or two or three, but that is not realistic for me, we seriously can't make it happen.

Tbh Ed has created such a toxic environment around united at the moment, he needs to go. Realistically, will he? I do not think so.

What is the point of having a manager that the fans won't back 6 months in? Everything from within the club and outside the club is a total mess at the moment.

Players not playing for the club, fans not supporting the club.

Majority of the fans have given managers time, LVG was given support and time heck even Jose was.

I don't blame the managers gone because I think most fans wanted to see Jose succeed but it was not happening. it has come to a point where fans are now fed up and turning on each other.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If he knew we couldn't get replacements in, then he shouldn't of sold them.
He said he was happy with the squad. He has made his bed with that statement and now he needs to lie in it.

Would you rather he did a Jose, throw his toys out the pram and sulk till fired?

 

[Enigma_87]

What excuses? I have said if he doesn't get top 4 then he should leave. Doesn't mean he got what he wanted, maybe you are too much used to Jose that you think every manager deals with issues in the press.

If manager is responsible for what he says, then how come Jose gets so many excuses when he said "Finally squad is his and it is ready to challenge for title"?

Why is Ole's interview where he said if Lukaku and Pogba leaves, then we need replacements is ignored? Maybe he should have moaned in the media or used his media friends like Jose did. He won't though, as he is like SAF, he thinks it's his club and keeps everything out of media coverage.

Funny how Ole not acting like a twat is used against him.

You don't have to act like a twat to show discontent with leaving certain positions unattended.

Does Poch act like a twat when he moans about transfer business?

What excuses have I given Jose that you are accusing me of? Up until last season he was backed and he finished 2nd. After that he didn't. I didn't put any excuses for acting like a twat and getting fired? As I said multiple time he should have gone. If he did get who he wanted then didn't mount a challenge he would have been held responsible, me included.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Would you rather he did a Jose, throw his toys out the pram and sulk till fired?

There is a middle ground between Jose and Ole. He wasn't backed is just an excuse at the moment. This is Ole's squad. All we know is what Ole said which is he is happy with the squad. Rest is just guessing. Plus people are not asking for a title. They want a top 4 finish with the squad the manager is happy with.

 

[Greck]

The club should have fired Ed and backed Jose or else we wouldn't have landed in such a shite situation now. This would also be a big statement out to the players that no one is bigger than the manager.

Nah no regrets about sacking Jose. There's a reason he's on skysports

 

[roonster09]

You don't have to act like a twat to show discontent with leaving certain positions unattended.

Does Poch act like a twat when he moans about transfer business?

What excuses have I given Jose that you are accusing me of? Up until last season he was backed and he finished 2nd. After that he didn't. I didn't put any excuses for acting like a twat and getting fired? As I said multiple time he should have gone. If he did get who he wanted then didn't mount a challenge he would have been held responsible, me included.

He spend as much as Klopp but you keep repeating "he wasn't backed". Is that not an excuse? Blamed others for Jose acting like a twat, with excuses like "he wasn't backed, he was always like that", is that not an excuse? Instead of calling out Jose for his pathetic behavior, his fans kept blaming everyone.

He got all the players he wanted, except Perisic. He didn't mount title challenge, even when he said squad is ready for title challenge. Did you held him responsible?

Also why should Ole show discontent in the media? How exactly it helps? I don't get this urge that managers should say everything in media. Ole is not working against Woodword, he is working for him and as a team. About time people come out of Jose era. Not everything will be said in public.

 

[Isotope]

I’m not sure anyone is no naive to believe that Ole is truly satisfied with the squad he has.

 

[roonster09]

There is a middle ground between Jose and Ole. He wasn't backed is just an excuse at the moment. This is Ole's squad. All we know is what Ole said which is he is happy with the squad. Rest is just guessing. Plus people are not asking for a title. They want a top 4 finish with the squad the manager is happy with.

Why should Ole say anything in the media? How does it help anyone?

Ole also said if we sell Lukaku and Pogba, we should sign replacements.

Also backed or not, Ole should get top 4. That should be minimum expectations. It's weird people blaming him not airing dirty laundry in public. He is keeping everything in the dressing room as they are a team. They are not working against each other.

 

[Greck]

The money to pay out should have been accounted to Ed Woodward.

How that man gets a bonus year in year out after all these blunders tells you what you need to of how the club is run.

What example do you think that sets down when the CEO is not being held accountable?

Then he comes out with bullshet like we can do things others can only wish in the transfer market.. fair enough if you will spend but if you are not going to, there was no need because agents and players will be wanting more.

I'm convinced Ed isn't the only one making key decisions. There's a Glazer or two making them with him. Probably the same one that said Martial was our Pele. They likely haven't fired him because they know they are as much to blame.

 

[Enigma_87]

He spend as much as Klopp but you keep repeating "he wasn't backed". Is that not an excuse? Blamed others for Jose acting like a twat, with excuses like "he wasn't backed, he was always like that", is that not an excuse? Instead of calling out Jose for his pathetic behavior, his fans kept blaming everyone.

He got all the players he wanted, except Perisic. He didn't mount title challenge, even when he said squad is ready for title challenge. Did you held him responsible?

Also why should Ole show discontent in the media? How exactly it helps? I don't get this urge that managers should say everything in media. Ole is not working against Woodword, he is working for him and as a team. About time people come out of Jose era. Not everything will be said in public.

You are getting scattered in your responses.

He finished his second season in 2nd position, ahead of Liverpool. I said he wasn't backed before the third season. And no he wasn't and no it wasn't just Perisic.

Even without backing him in the third season he shouldn't be finishing 6th or where he was when he got fired and during that time I said he deserved to go and should be fired - you can go on and check my posts.

As for Ole you keep inventing conjunctures of how it "really" is without knowing shit. Who are we supposed to believe - he himself saying what he said in public or a random folk from the Internet who is saying the opposite?

 

[Enigma_87]

Tbh Ed has created such a toxic environment around united at the moment, he needs to go. Realistically, will he? I do not think so.

What is the point of having a manager that the fans won't back 6 months in? Everything from within the club and outside the club is a total mess at the moment.

Players not playing for the club, fans not supporting the club.

Majority of the fans have given managers time, LVG was given support and time heck even Jose was.

I don't blame the managers gone because I think most fans wanted to see Jose succeed but it was not happening. it has come to a point where fans are now fed up and turning on each other.

Problem is his position has mainly financial bearing. He will be held accountable if our market value drops or we begin to lose money for some time. He can easily pin it on the next in line and come clean. Glazers don't really know anything about footballing matters so they really can't make a balanced judgement either and are the only ones above him at the moment.

It won't happen for foreseeable future. We're Liverpool before Klopp at the moment.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

There is a middle ground between Jose and Ole. He wasn't backed is just an excuse at the moment. This is Ole's squad. All we know is what Ole said which is he is happy with the squad. Rest is just guessing. Plus people are not asking for a title. They want a top 4 finish with the squad the manager is happy with.

Well whatever he said in public there is no manager on the planet that would really be happy with the options he has up front in private.

 

[romufc]

I'm convinced Ed isn't the only one making key decisions. There's a Glazer or two making them with him. Probably the same one that said Martial was our Pele. They likely haven't fired him because they know they are as much to blame.

Yes, I agree he isn't the only one but when you are a big organisation such as United, you hire these people to guide you. I am sure Ed's job is to deal with managers, players and there will be minimal involvement from Glazers? I might be wrong.

However; when you hire someone to be your CEo, you expect them to stand up to you as well when they don't agree and if things dont go well, you cannot replace yourself so someone needs to go. I know it is harsh but that is how things work, you have to make an example if you want to succeed.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yes, I agree he isn't the only one but when you are a big organisation such as United, you hire these people to guide you. I am sure Ed's job is to deal with managers, players and there will be minimal involvement from Glazers? I might be wrong.

However; when you hire someone to be your CEo, you expect them to stand up to you as well when they don't agree and if things dont go well, you cannot replace yourself so someone needs to go. I know it is harsh but that is how things work, you have to make an example if you want to succeed.

I think Ed loves the decision making. Wants to be under the spotlight from time to time. It's more of a personal issue (in terms of trait) and also too much of a belief in his acumen. Unfortunately this is perilous for the club as a whole.

 

[roonster09]

You are getting scattered in your responses.

He finished his second season in 2nd position, ahead of Liverpool. I said he wasn't backed before the third season. And no he wasn't and no it wasn't just Perisic.

Even without backing him in the third season he shouldn't be finishing 6th or where he was when he got fired and during that time I said he deserved to go and should be fired - you can go on and check my posts.

As for Ole you keep inventing conjunctures of how it "really" is without knowing shit. Who are we supposed to believe - he himself saying what he said in public or a random folk from the Internet who is saying the opposite?

Maybe you don't remember it properly, go and check what Jose said in August 2017. He was backed, he said squad is ready for title challenge and he failed.

Regarding the last part, it's funny how you keep ignoring the part where Ole said if lukaku and Pogba leaves, they should be replaced.

 

[roonster09]

I’m not sure anyone is no naive to believe that Ole is truly satisfied with the squad he has.

I'm sure there are people who are naive to believe everything. They think managers swear on their holy books and speaks only truth in the press conference. People even had problem with Ole saying good things about Sanchez before offloading him.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Why should Ole say anything in the media? How does it help anyone?

Ole also said if we sell Lukaku and Pogba, we should sign replacements.

Also backed or not, Ole should get top 4. That should be minimum expectations. It's weird people blaming him not airing dirty laundry in public. He is keeping everything in the dressing room as they are a team. They are not working against each other.

Sorry for the Sun link but this is how Poch did it which shows he is unhappy with the transfers and wasn't backed. This also doesn't throw his current squad under the bus and puts pressure on Levy. If you keep smiling and say everything golden then nothing happens. I accept it might not have changed the transfer window had Ole said he isn't getting what he asked for but it would have shown the fans where the problem is and Ole is not happy with the squad.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9620845/pochettino-spurs-job-title-manager-coach-transfers/

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I'm sure there are people who are naive to believe everything. They think managers swear on their holy books and speaks only truth in the press conference. People even had problem with Ole saying good things about Sanchez before offloading him.

It would also fill Rashford and Martial with loads of confidence if your manager is complaining in public before the season has even started.

 

[romufc]

Problem is his position has mainly financial bearing. He will be held accountable if our market value drops or we begin to lose money for some time. He can easily pin it on the next in line and come clean. Glazers don't really know anything about footballing matters so they really can't make a balanced judgement either and are the only ones above him at the moment.

It won't happen for foreseeable future. We're Liverpool before Klopp at the moment.

Our market value has dropped, and it will further if we don't finish champions league and lose out on some Addidas money.

Yep, I don't think a change will happen, we will be in a vicious cycle of players and managers until we hire a top notch manager who will turn things around. Even managers are not guaranteed success at United anymore.

 

[roonster09]

Sorry for the Sun link but this is how Poch did it which shows he is unhappy with the transfers and wasn't backed. This also doesn't throw his current squad under the bus and puts pressure on Levy. If you keep smiling and say everything golden then nothing happens. I accept it might not have changed the transfer window had Ole said he isn't getting what he asked for but it would have shown the fans where the problem is.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9620845/pochettino-spurs-job-title-manager-coach-transfers/

So you believe Poch saying few things in public changed their transfer strategy?

Fans know where the problem is, it's just that there is nothing anyone can do unless there is a huge protest and Glazers agree to sell the club or appoint someone else to run the club.

 

[roonster09]

It would also fill Rashford and Martial with loads of confidence if your manager is complaining in public before the season has even started.

Exactly. It doesn't help anyone except media to fill their columns. It's shocking that ManUtd fans who saw SAF as ManUtd manager for most of their life time think, it's better to feed media with stories.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

So you believe Poch saying few things in public changed their transfer strategy?

Fans know where the problem is, it's just that there is nothing anyone can do unless there is a huge protest and Glazers agree to sell the club or appoint someone else to run the club.

It does get the pressure on Levy that is for sure and lets the fans know where the problem is.

I know the biggest problem is Woodward, he is the idiot who gave Ole a full time job on the bases of a few decent months when he said the club would carefully decide at the end of the season. He is also the idiot who gave Jose an extension when there was no need. He needs to go first and foremost.

Problem is I think this transfer window is exactly what Ole wanted. He got the defenders he wanted. For midfield it seems it was Longstaff or bust. For forward position it seems it was Sancho or bust.

Regardless, the point of this thread is that standards shouldn't drop for Ole. Like you said either he gets top 4/EL or he is sacked.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Cause he's young and he's black and his hat's real low? Do I look like a mind reader, sir? I don't know

 

[roonster09]

It does get the pressure on Levy that is for sure and lets the fans know where the problem is.

I know the biggest problem is Woodward, he is the idiot who gave Ole a full time job on the bases of a few decent months when he said the club would carefully decide at the end of the season. He is also the idiot who gave Jose an extension when there was no need. He needs to go first and foremost.

Problem is I think this transfer window is exactly what Ole wanted. He got the defenders he wanted. For midfield it seems it was Longstaff or bust. For forward position it seems it was Sancho or bust.

Regardless, the point of this thread is that standards shouldn't drop for Ole. Like you said either he gets top 4/EL or he is sacked.

Actually the point of this thread is wrong. It wasn't about top 4 or bust, it was why didn't we sack Ole for the bad run of form, when we had bad run of forms under Jose, Van Gaal but didn't sack them.

Also don't think saying anything in public adds pressure. Jose did it, barely had any impact.

 

[rotherham_red]

He was the manager of fecking WATFORD. You're arguing on behalf of Ole by comparing his numbers to the manager of WATFORD. If all that is to be expected of a Manchester United manager is to match the likes of Garcia, then maybe you or I should be manager. He has 3 wins in 16; that is very, very alarming. I'd like to give him another summer window to buy Sancho and bring in a couple of midfielders but if this present form continues past October and leaks into November, he would have to go.
Every other manager has gotten the sack for missing the Champions League so why is Ole not held to the same standard? His supporters keep mentioning the "mess" that he inherited from Jose. Well what about the mess that Jose inherited from LVG or the 7th place stink bomb that LVG inherited from DM? Any new manager is going to inherit a big problem. The previous manager is rarely sacked because he was doing a great job and everything is fantastic with the squad. Every new manager has a massive task on his hands but some of the Ole supporters who have you think that he's in a unique situation. He's done a great job selling off players and his summer purchases look excellent so I hope these first 4 games are just a blip and not a continuation of last years bad run.

The mess where LvG finished level on points with City who finished 4th and only missed out on CL football due to GD? To which Jose then spent £180m and took that same team to... 6th? That mess? GTFOH