Why did we buy Fred?

[Johan07]

A figure of about £53m got City the current second best centre-back in the league in Laporte, and a former POTY and a very talented player in Mahrez in the last 12 months alone... I really like Fred and think he’ll prove to be worth the fee but this isn’t the way to go about defending it.

Laporte had a buy-out clause and is btw a great example on why one should not judge a player after three months, especially when he comes from another league. He did not look great from the beginning either, and its really just this season he has come into his own.
Mahrez did not have a great final season at Leicester but he still cost City £60m, while still being two years older than Fred, which is very relevant when it comes to transfer value. Lazio allegedly demanded over £100m for Milinkovic-Savic. A player like Saul Niguez has reportedly a release clause of £125m.
£50m isnt that much anymore. Its not going to buy you someone that instantly bosses a team like Uniteds midfield. Its a figure that at that age will give you a good player with potential to improve.
I said from the beginning - in numerous "scouting reports" - that Fred will need time, and its a ltb sad to see people already disregarding him because of a transfer fee that is not so large that everyone seems to think it is in todays market.

 

[manutddjw]

I'm just shocked that people still want to use the "not a Mourinho signing" line. That means Ed went into business for himself and signed some random without approval of the manager. That's completely foolish. Ed is there to serve the Glazer's. The Glazer's would be much happier with Ed if he didn't spend 53 Million. No idea why anyone would suggest he'd spend the Glazers money when he didn't have to.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Every time when he played he was good. So he can be only better. I am not worried at all for him. Our midfield is excellent. We don't need new players there.

 

[gerdm07]

Chelsea spent the same amount on Jorginho. If given a chance I know who I'd have signed. Although I do agree that Fred hasn't been given a fair chance yet

Jorginho would have transformed our midfield if used right. What could have been.

 

[RooneyLegend]

But also bear in mind Pep hasn’t had to buy De Bruyne, Aguero, Silva etc. If he did then those new signings would be as high as Lukaku. If you consider Karl Walker cost €50 million.

It’s a daft argument no matter how you approach it. If every club was reset and all the squad were perchased in 1 transfer window then it would be valid.

It would be true if those players weren't all bought for great prices even for those days. None of them were records. De Bruyne was bought at nearly half the price of Pogba a year earlier. They got Aguero for Carrol money and Silva was an even better deal. They got B.Silva for 45 million in this current market. The deals are there, we are making the wrong ones.

 

[Mainoldo]

Jorginho would have transformed our midfield if used right. What could have been.

Jorginho couldn’t play here. He’d look like Matic.

 

[Ali Dia]

It would be true if those players weren't all bought for great prices even for those days. None of them were records. De Bruyne was bought at nearly half the price of Pogba a year earlier. They got Aguero for Carrol money and Silva was an even better deal. They got B.Silva for 45 million in this current market. The deals are there, we are making the wrong ones.

A mixture of top quality scouting and throwing money at the situation relentlessly until they became an unstoppable force in the league. Their recruitment is streets ahead of ours and they even caught up on the youth side in 1 generation. Money is no object but they are also well able to spot talent, do decent deals and move underperforming players and managers on quickly. Unfortunately they’ll probably win a CL over the next few seasons. Sick.

Fred will get a solid run soon enough but he probably won’t come into his own until next season and that’s normal, making such a big step up in standard of league is not easy. The city away match just came a bit too early for him. I don’t think that’s terrible management to be honest.

 

[Enigma_87]

Jorginho couldn’t play here. He’d look like Matic.

Agreed. Fred looked like the better fit for us, considering what we needed. Still it isn't late for him to turn out good.

Jorginho won't fix our issues.

 

[Ekeke]

Jorginho couldn’t play here. He’d look like Matic.

I dont think he's been amazing for Chelsea so far, but hes a player who likes to pass forward and he'd have done that here which is enough to outshine Matic

 

[Mainoldo]

I dont think he's been amazing for Chelsea so far, but hes a player who likes to pass forward and he'd have done that here which is enough to outshine Matic

He’s been alright. I don’t really think he’s that amazing, be he’s exactly what Sarri requires. He does pass forward but he also has the ability to be slow in distribution. We know which player we would have got don’t we. He can pass forward all he like but who is he passing to? Our wingers are normally tracking full backs and the big man can’t hold up a ball.

 

[Patrick08]

Jorginho couldn’t play here. He’d look like Matic.

Wanted us to build a side like Madrid under Jose with 3 playmakers in the middle, this could have been the season and the window for it, but as always others are hugely benefitting from our managers and ceo's poor footballing vision.

Have to see more of fred to make a opinion on him, though passing and playmaking wise,jorginho will prove to be a much better signing overall.

 

[Kostov]

Every time when he played he was good. So he can be only better. I am not worried at all for him. Our midfield is excellent. We don't need new players there.

Our midfield is far from excellent. We need a new DMF as soon as next summer.

 

[Freak]

Our midfield is far from excellent. We need a new DMF as soon as next summer.

We just need to drop Matic and try someone else there. Herrera has done a fantastic job in that position for us in the past (being voted player of the year) and Pereira hasn't been given a consistent chance as yet. I really like Herrera in that role actually; if only Jose just drops Matic. We can definitely hold off on the DMF position until we sort out our other glaring issues at centre back, right wing and right back.

 

[Patrick08]

We just need to drop Matic and try someone else there. Herrera has done a fantastic job in that position for us in the past (being voted player of the year) and Pereira hasn't been given a consistent chance as yet. I really like Herrera in that role actually; if only Jose just drops Matic. We can definitely hold off on the DMF position until we sort out our other glaring issues at centre back, right wing and right back.

I'd like to see fred there, he looks like matic replacement in that position. Herrera excelled when he was asked to press the opposition proactively rather than playing a holding role like matic.

 

[charlie9882]

Laporte had a buy-out clause and is btw a great example on why one should not judge a player after three months, especially when he comes from another league. He did not look great from the beginning either, and its really just this season he has come into his own.

Laporte was the stand out CB for City as soon as he started playing for the club. He had a couple of shaky games against Liverpool, but was out of position playing as a LB as City had no one else to play there.

 

[CA1]

Fred will come good. Mourinho is protecting him at the moment. Good management.

Just like Klopp gets praised for with his players.

Fergie did it all the time too.

 

[Johan07]

It would be true if those players weren't all bought for great prices even for those days. None of them were records. De Bruyne was bought at nearly half the price of Pogba a year earlier. They got Aguero for Carrol money and Silva was an even better deal. They got B.Silva for 45 million in this current market. The deals are there, we are making the wrong ones.

Aguero had a buy-out clause like all Spanish players did he not? And that was years ago. Same with Silva.
And why are we comparing transfers that took plays over five years ago to todays market?
And Bernardo Silvas first half of his first season was not really better than Freds so far for us this season.
City has made some awful choices on the transfer market, I will just mention Nolito for one. There are many more.
DeBruyne was a very good buy, thats true, but there are so many opposites of him as well that you choose to leave out of the equation.

 

[Ekeke]

He’s been alright. I don’t really think he’s that amazing, be he’s exactly what Sarri requires. He does pass forward but he also has the ability to be slow in distribution. We know which player we would have got don’t we. He can pass forward all he like but who is he passing to? Our wingers are normally tracking full backs and the big man can’t hold up a ball.

All the wingers at big clubs will track back. Its forwards like Ronaldo who wont. Even 35 year old Ribery is doing it for Bayern

 

[gerdm07]

I dont think he's been amazing for Chelsea so far, but hes a player who likes to pass forward and he'd have done that here which is enough to outshine Matic

You need to watch him more as he did not have a good match against us. His biggest quality is his quick one and two touch passing. We do not have anyone with that quality and it's the primary reason are ball movement is slow too often. Matic only does one touch passes backwards, Pogba likes to dare defenders to try to take the ball away instead of moving the ball quickly, Fellaini is Fellaini, Fred is a question mark, and Herrera's primary job is not quick passing.

 

[Johan07]

You need to watch him more as he did not have a good match against us. His biggest quality is his quick one and two touch passing. We do not have anyone with that quality and it's the primary reason are ball movement is slow too often. Matic only does one touch passes backwards, Pogba likes to dare defenders to try to take the ball away instead of moving the ball quickly, Fellaini is Fellaini, Fred is a question mark, and Herrera's primary job is not quick passing.

To compare Matic and Jorginho is like compare apples and oranges. They both play as a #6 for their respective teams, but their roles are completely different because of the team they play in.
Matic is an excellent #6 for an ultradefensive team as we were last year. One of the best in the world.
Jorginho is up there (still short of) with Busquets and Fernandinho, as a #6 for a possession-oriented high pressing team. Also bordering to world class in that position however you define "world class".
Neither would not perform well where the other plays though. Guardiola or Sarri would never use Matic as their #6, he is way to slow and not mobile enough.
Mourinho would never entertain Jorginho or Fernandinho as his #6 either, they are not physical enough and have the the physical/aerial ability(supposed when it comes to Matic I guess).
There is a reason why we were never in for Jorginho and why he was a perfect fit for Chelsea under Sarri.
Personally I think it sucks that we missed out on Jorginho because of the way we play, Mourinho not fancying him in that position. He is an excellent player in an offensive setup and would have been a great acquisition together with a new manager.

 

[Bestietom]

Erwin seems to believe that Fred will come good. He just needs the time to settle into this Premier League. I think Erwin is right, it takes time to change from another league to the Premiership.

 

[Ekeke]

Scholes seems to believe that Fred will come good. He just needs the time to settle into this Premier League.

He also believed Ander Herrera could be his replacement as a goalscoring midfielder

 

[Nick7]

Erwin seems to believe that Fred will come good. He just needs the time to settle into this Premier League. I think Erwin is right, it takes time to change from another league to the Premiership.

Erwin?

 

[Bestietom]

Erwin?

Yes Erwin said it on the Paddy Crerand show a couple of weeks back, and this was after Scholes said it.

 

[Nick7]

Yes Erwin said it on the Paddy Crerand show a couple of weeks back, and this was after Scholes said it.

Denis Irwin?

 

[Bestietom]

Denis Irwin?

Sorry, Irwin.

 

[Mainoldo]

All the wingers at big clubs will track back. Its forwards like Ronaldo who wont. Even 35 year old Ribery is doing it for Bayern

That statement is true. Along with all full backs attack. However there is a distinct difference in how that is implemented. Our focus is to track back first.

 

[Johan07]

That statement is true. Along with all full backs attack. However there is a distinct difference in how that is implemented. Our focus is to track back first.

It is a distinct difference.
Our default defensive position - not in possession - is (has been at least) to sit really low with our back four. Mourinho-style. Not to get countered and fall back first instead of press the ball.
He has always played like this. It has its advantages, it pretty much eliminates the opposition´s possibilities to attack the space behind the defensive line and the GK Which is a dangerous space, maybe the most dangerous.
To that to be true though; it requires the back four to play extremely narrow to eliminate the area between CB and FB. A space that is as much or more dangerous if you defend low.
An area that "modern" teams like Barca and City thrive on exploiting. Because if they do manage to exploit that space against a opposition sitting low they are in on goal. We see this a lot especially with Guardiolas teams.
They dont really need a physical presence up front because any "crosses"will come from inside or just outside of the penalty area. Low and hard.
Back to Mourinho: Having to play a extremely narrow back-four, because of sitting low to begin with results in someone to handle the channels though: which in a Mourinho/defensive system leaves the wingers.
When we play a possession-oriented team that dares to push their FBs up in possession it results in us playing a 6-3-1. A player like Fred has no place in such a system (to keep this rant thread-oriented).
I never wanted Mourinho to begin with, which this post might reveal. That said, his type of football can work. But if we are supposed to keep playing like this, we need a new #9 to begin with. We cannot play defensive counterattacking football without a real target-man up front. IMO.
End rant.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Aguero had a buy-out clause like all Spanish players did he not? And that was years ago. Same with Silva.
And why are we comparing transfers that took plays over five years ago to todays market?
And Bernardo Silvas first half of his first season was not really better than Freds so far for us this season.
City has made some awful choices on the transfer market, I will just mention Nolito for one. There are many more.
DeBruyne was a very good buy, thats true, but there are so many opposites of him as well that you choose to leave out of the equation.

If you read the post that i was replying to you'll realise he brought them up. My point was financially those were great deals even for those days. Im not comparing them to the deals of today hence i mention Carrol. My point is great deals are there, we just need to start making them if we're to progress.

In the Pep era they've barely made poor signings. Only Nolito and Bravo have been failed signings and they were probably the cheapest players they've bought.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The talent is in there. Can use both feet, can pass the ball, hard working, fluid. Problem is that he hasn't adapt with PL style, he still brings his old habit that he used to had in Ukraine which are doing too much, take too many touches, and needs to improve his positioning. He just needs to understand the EPL game and he will come good.

I'm more concerned with Matic because he's out of his depth right now, I don't want scapegoating individual but I think Matic's poor form is the first reason why our midfield & defense aren't doing well as what we expected and it also effect Fred too. A holding midfielder is an important role, someone who can bring the ball from the back, lead the midfield to support player like Fred and defend well to protect back four, unfortunately our holding midfield is major issue right now.

 

[b20times]

I think he's a bit of a loose cannon personally, I know players play on the edge but this guy seems too pumped up sometimes and he loses his focus.

 

[buckooo1978]

just more evidence of a disjointed and dysfunctional transfer strategy

Buys a player who likes to press and doesn't know how to use him or get the best out of him

not hard to see why the board are reluctant to give Mourinho free reign with tens of millions of pounds when we've Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred on our bench, underperforming and costing us an absolute fortune

 

[the_irish123]

can't he start against fecking palace?

 

[the_irish123]

Poor Fred.

 

[redshaw]

We needed his urgency today. Someone like him or Herrera especially with Pogba not at full strength and Matic being Matic.

 

[Kevin]

But we should give Mourinho 500 more millions to waste. "B-b-buh, pep s-s-suyned rubbish 2..." Yes managers are allowed flop buys but this is getting out of hand. Out of all his signings so far only Pogba and Zlatan can be called borderline successful. The rest are question marks or disastrous flops.

But woodward signed them all obviously.

 

[Minimalist]

We signed him ironically.

 

[Litch]

So many unanswered questions at this club at mo, Fred pales into insignificance.....

 

[Bearded One]

Question: Why did we sign Fred
Answer: because he was linked to City

Can we close this thread now?

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Dunno to be honest. Why did we buy most of the signings we've made in the past 5yrs?

Worst transfer policy and decision making of any 'big' club in Europe.