Why do we seem to get fleeced so often?

[Solius]

I know the obvious answer is our negotiators are piss poor but it feels like we get a bit targeted in the transfer market now.

Inspired by Spurs signing Doherty (probably one of the best wing-backs in the league) for a paltry £15m, I wondered how that transfer would've gone if we were in for him.

I think firstly Ed's comment that we can do things in the transfer market others can only dream of was one of the worst things he's ever said/done and it basically told every other club they can name any price they want if we are in for a player. What I don't understand though is why other City/Real and to an extent Chelsea and PSG don't get the same treatment when it's known they're funded heavily by what is essentially endless money. Ferran Torres for £20m? Chillwell at 50m seems about expected but surely Leicester could have held out for more? It's not just me that thinks if it was us in for him they'd be dragging their heels for the entire window? I reckon every transfer another club has done you would have to add on about 20% 'Utd tax' on it.

Do clubs just inherently dislike us after so many years of dominating and they want to compound any misery they can? Or is it purely just really bad negotiating?

Our record at selling players is pretty awful as well, whilst other clubs seem to get solid amounts for their dross. Maybe other clubs shit players don't get quite as much attention as ours and therefore don't seem as bad?

It's pretty frustrating all round really. The only 'good' deal we've got in the last few years is Bruno and that's because it was widely known Sporting were desperate for the cash.

 

[JPRouve]

Ed's comments are irrelevant, the clubs finances are public and every club on earth know exactly what we can afford or not. The issue isn't with what we say but what we do, we don't exploit the market, we go for players that are often in long contractual situation with their clubs or that are playing for clubs that don't need money. Just take Ferran Torres, Valencia need money and they are willing to sell anyone.

 

[Matriac]

I know the obvious answer is our negotiators are piss poor but it feels like we get a bit targeted in the transfer market now.

Inspired by Spurs signing Doherty (probably one of the best wing-backs in the league) for a paltry £15m, I wondered how that transfer would've gone if we were in for him.

I think firstly Ed's comment that we can do things in the transfer market others can only dream of was one of the worst things he's ever said/done and it basically told every other club they can name any price they want if we are in for a player. What I don't understand though is why other City/Real and to an extent Chelsea and PSG don't get the same treatment when it's known they're funded heavily by what is essentially endless money. Ferran Torres for £20m? Chillwell at 50m seems about expected but surely Leicester could have held out for more? It's not just me that thinks if it was us in for him they'd be dragging their heels for the entire window? I reckon every transfer another club has done you would have to add on about 20% 'Utd tax' on it.

Do clubs just inherently dislike us after so many years of dominating and they want to compound any misery they can? Or is it purely just really bad negotiating?

Our record at selling players is pretty awful as well, whilst other clubs seem to get solid amounts for their dross. Maybe other clubs shit players don't get quite as much attention as ours and therefore don't seem as bad?

It's pretty frustrating all round really. The only 'good' deal we've got in the last few years is Bruno and that's because it was widely known Sporting were desperate for the cash.

Would we ever have been in for someone like Doherty? I don't think so.
We tend to target high quality, so the price follows.
But then it becomes a paradox that if we target someone that must mean they are quality, right? If not we wouldn't be in for them? And quality costs.

Also the fact that if you are selling a rare item with no set and tangible price because of limited supply, perhaps one of a kind. And you have an interested buyer, you know this person has historically had a lot of money from other purchases. You'd be more inclined to try and get as much money as possible out of them. Whereas if another possible buyer that hasn't spent as much in the past, you'd be more inclined to come to an agreement to ensure you get the deal through.

If you need the money that is, and/or the item is sentient and really wants a new owner.

 

[rcoobc]

20% united tax is nowhere close. It's more like 100% now.

The answer is, were bad at negotiations. Everyone knows we're desperate, and have been since SAF left.

With the "cheaper" players, you need to be able to say to clubs; "I'm interested in player X, here is £20m for him. If you don't want it, that's fine we have a back up option for £18m elsewhere - and that needs to be a credible threat.

That's how you get players cheaply, you don't engage in bidding wars. Take it or leave it offers. But they need to be credible.

Sadly, until we're on too again, and until we get rid of Woodward, none of that is going to matter very much.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Ed’s bragging can’t have helped but that was a long time ago. I’d put it down to two things which distinguish us from other clubs with deep pockets:

1. We now have an established track record of paying over the odds. So every seller will push their luck.
2. We are also generally buying from a position of weakness in the squad due to our appalling ratio of good buys to bad buys over the last 10 years. As a result, it’s probably harder to give the impression that we are willing just to walk away from the deal.

 

[rcoobc]

Ed's comments are irrelevant, the clubs finances are public and every club on earth know exactly what we can afford or not. The issue isn't with what we say but what we do, we don't exploit the market, we go for players that are often in long contractual situation with their clubs or that are playing for clubs that don't need money. Just take Ferran Torres, Valencia need money and they are willing to sell anyone.

We're just bad at negotiations.

Woodward should be left in charge of getting sponsors only.

 

[rcoobc]

Ed’s bragging can’t have helped but that was a long time ago. I’d put it down to two things which distinguish us from other clubs with deep pockets:

1. We now have an established track record of paying over the odds. So every seller will push their luck.
2. We are also generally buying from a position of weakness in the squad due to our appalling ratio of good buys to bad buys over the last 10 years. As a result, it’s probably harder to give the impression that we are willing just to walk away from the deal.

Exactly

 

[Skills]

Ed's comments are irrelevant, the clubs finances are public and every club on earth know exactly what we can afford or not. The issue isn't with what we say but what we do, we don't exploit the market, we go for players that are often in long contractual situation with their clubs or that are playing for clubs that don't need money. Just take Ferran Torres, Valencia need money and they are willing to sell anyone.

Is correct.

We also only buy players for the manages immediate needs, rather than constantly looking in the market for good players. The manager giving the board a transfer list of players every summer is quite frankly ridiculous, as it just gears up clubs and agents to rip us off.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Ed's comments are irrelevant, the clubs finances are public and every club on earth know exactly what we can afford or not. The issue isn't with what we say but what we do, we don't exploit the market, we go for players that are often in long contractual situation with their clubs or that are playing for clubs that don't need money. Just take Ferran Torres, Valencia need money and they are willing to sell anyone.

I think this is spot on. Considering our supposedly vast scouting network, we have a terrible habits of just going for obvious choices that will come at a very high price. I refuse to believe that there weren't cheaper options than Maguire and AWB last summer but Ole seems to be obsessed with snapping up English players so there we go.

 

[Tom Cato]

I know the obvious answer is our negotiators are piss poor but it feels like we get a bit targeted in the transfer market now.

Inspired by Spurs signing Doherty (probably one of the best wing-backs in the league) for a paltry £15m, I wondered how that transfer would've gone if we were in for him.

I think firstly Ed's comment that we can do things in the transfer market others can only dream of was one of the worst things he's ever said/done and it basically told every other club they can name any price they want if we are in for a player. What I don't understand though is why other City/Real and to an extent Chelsea and PSG don't get the same treatment when it's known they're funded heavily by what is essentially endless money. Ferran Torres for £20m? Chillwell at 50m seems about expected but surely Leicester could have held out for more? It's not just me that thinks if it was us in for him they'd be dragging their heels for the entire window? I reckon every transfer another club has done you would have to add on about 20% 'Utd tax' on it.

Do clubs just inherently dislike us after so many years of dominating and they want to compound any misery they can? Or is it purely just really bad negotiating?

Our record at selling players is pretty awful as well, whilst other clubs seem to get solid amounts for their dross. Maybe other clubs shit players don't get quite as much attention as ours and therefore don't seem as bad?

It's pretty frustrating all round really. The only 'good' deal we've got in the last few years is Bruno and that's because it was widely known Sporting were desperate for the cash.

Doherty is 28 and scored 4g 3a last season. This is his last big long term contract. But he is the player he is, there is not significant development left there. £15m is a good deal but he's not worth £50m even before covid. Ben Chillwell being sold at £50m is very close to matching the price of AWB, at a similar age, this price is extremely comparable.

I think you're looking at a bit of confirmation bias here.

MUFC DOES pay somewhat a premium on transfers, but what have we bought that was out of price?

AWB? Young, proven talent. ~£50m, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom
Harry Maguire, - World record transfer, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom. England international Centerback.
Dan James, highly regarded talent. bought for reasonable fee
Bruno Fernandes, highly regarded international player at the start of his prime years, bought for a resonable fee

Negotiating for Jadon Sancho. One of football greatest talents, under long term contract in a club that does not need to sell with CL ambition.

Where are we getting fleeced here? None of these players were bought for a higher price than the market dictated. Leicester never had any incentive to sell Harry Maguire. Their only incentive was enough money.

There are a number of things that dictate player transfer values: Contract term, production, age, talent status, selling club financial status, buying club financial status, market player is bought in, players desire to leave the club. Football clubs are tradeable companies and ROI is absolutely a factor in determining how high they're willing to go.

I actually disagree that we're paying too much for players to the tune of "our negotiators are piss poor". The players we target are different than say, Tottenham.

Ed Woodward saying things in public about our financial muscles is unimportant, clubs don't see that and realize that we can ask for anything. Selling clubs actually do due dilligence, they already know how much money the club has to throw around, the club accounts are largely open to the public from the previous fiscal year. - Add that to the previous list and you have the ballpark figure you negotiate a transfer fee in.

I mean, I'm just a fan and even I have a pretty good idea what transfer fees we can operate with - Although my professional background certainly helps. Actual poweraccountants at say, Dortmund, aren't fooled by public press.

The club lack what Chelsea have, an owner that is willing to funnel money INTO the club, our owners take substantial share dividends, so we have to be more careful than a club like Chelsea or Manchester City that are supported by keen investors.

MUFC don't have bad negotiators, but why progress appear to draw out so much I honestly can't tell besides common stalling tactics and considerations.

 

[Falcow]

We need to send out a signal or two that we will walk away if price is to high. That is a silver lining fron the Sancho saga.

 

[Massive Spanner]

20% united tax is nowhere close. It's more like 100% now.

The answer is, were bad at negotiations. Everyone knows we're desperate, and have been since SAF left.

With the "cheaper" players, you need to be able to say to clubs; "I'm interested in player X, here is £20m for him. If you don't want it, that's fine we have a back up option for £18m elsewhere - and that needs to be a credible threat.

That's how you get players cheaply, you don't engage in bidding wars. Take it or leave it offers. But they need to be credible.

Sadly, until we're on too again, and until we get rid of Woodward, none of that is going to matter very much.

I think that's a slightly simplistic view. The big problem is that we've gone for players where the club simply do not need to negotiate.

Both Leicester and Crystal Palace were in good financial positions last summer and therefore slapped those big price tags on AWB and Maguire because they didn't need to sell them. That left us in a position of basically needing to pay up or feck off. As far as they were concerned it wasn't beneficial to them to sell them for any less than what they'd marked them down as.

 

[Matriac]

We're just bad at negotiations.

Woodward should be left in charge of getting sponsors only.

Woodward doesn't do our negotiations. All he does is sign off on it in the end with the permission of the board.

Yes he would be part of chatting to a player to sell them on the idea of joining us. But the actual number crunching negotiations are left to other people.

 

[SilentWitness]

Ed's comments are irrelevant, the clubs finances are public and every club on earth know exactly what we can afford or not. The issue isn't with what we say but what we do, we don't exploit the market, we go for players that are often in long contractual situation with their clubs or that are playing for clubs that don't need money. Just take Ferran Torres, Valencia need money and they are willing to sell anyone.

Agreed, I think the players you often target just seem to be the ones that people want to keep or would obviously demand big money for.

If we take the Doherty/AWB example.

In one player you have a solid and reliable fullback but nothing overly spectacular that has been at Wolves for many years and although they still have a contract until 2023, they're now entering their late 20s and they have a replacement in Maitland-Niles lined up that is a similar fee so they aren't going to be troubled in terms of finances. Wolves could possibly take more but due to the Covid situation they're probably being sensible and realising it's not worth being too picky in terms of negotiation.

In AWB you had a prospect that had burst onto the scene and instantly looked like one of the best defensive fullbacks in the league. Factor in his age, room for growth, the club he was at - old squad, doesn't bring through many youth players of that quality etc. and it's understandable that they were demanding a huge fee for him.

 

[Sweet Square]

Doherty is 28 and scored 4g 3a last season. This is his last big long term contract. But he is the player he is, there is not significant development left there. £15m is a good deal but he's not worth £50m even before covid. Ben Chillwell being sold at £50m is very close to matching the price of AWB, at a similar age, this price is extremely comparable.

I think you're looking at a bit of confirmation bias here.

MUFC DOES pay somewhat a premium on transfers, but what have we bought that was out of price?

AWB? Young, proven talent. ~£50m, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom
Harry Maguire, - World record transfer, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom. England international Centerback.
Dan James, highly regarded talent. bought for reasonable fee
Bruno Fernandes, highly regarded international player at the start of his prime years, bought for a resonable fee

Negotiating for Jadon Sancho. One of football greatest talents, under long term contract in a club that does not need to sell with CL ambition.

Where are we getting fleeced here? None of these players were bought for a higher price than the market dictated. Leicester never had any incentive to sell Harry Maguire. Their only incentive was enough money.

There are a number of things that dictate player transfer values: Contract term, production, age, talent status, selling club financial status, buying club financial status, market player is bought in, players desire to leave the club. Football clubs are tradeable companies and ROI is absolutely a factor in determining how high they're willing to go.

I actually disagree that we're paying too much for players to the tune of "our negotiators are piss poor". The players we target are different than say, Tottenham.

Ed Woodward saying things in public about our financial muscles is unimportant, clubs don't see that and realize that we can ask for anything. Selling clubs actually do due dilligence, they already know how much money the club has to throw around, the club accounts are largely open to the public from the previous fiscal year. - Add that to the previous list and you have the ballpark figure you negotiate a transfer fee in.

I mean, I'm just a fan and even I have a pretty good idea what transfer fees we can operate with - Although my professional background certainly helps. Actual poweraccountants at say, Dortmund, aren't fooled by public press.

The club lack what Chelsea have, an owner that is willing to funnel money INTO the club, our owners take substantial share dividends, so we have to be more careful than a club like Chelsea or Manchester City that are supported by keen investors.

MUFC don't have bad negotiators, but why progress appear to draw out so much I honestly can't tell besides common stalling tactics and considerations.

Great post.

 

[Castia]

We even got fleeced on Dan James. Leeds had him signed for half the price we paid.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

The central figure at Utd at board-level is Ed fecking Woodward.

Club is run by people who aren't football people and aren't respected by football people.

In short - club run by muppets.

Compare that to a Roman or a Levy and it's crystal clear the difference in what you're dealing with.

 

[CG1010]

Ed’s bragging can’t have helped but that was a long time ago. I’d put it down to two things which distinguish us from other clubs with deep pockets:

1. We now have an established track record of paying over the odds. So every seller will push their luck.
2. We are also generally buying from a position of weakness in the squad due to our appalling ratio of good buys to bad buys over the last 10 years. As a result, it’s probably harder to give the impression that we are willing just to walk away from the deal.

This exactly. We need to just grit our teeth and continue until we have a decent functioning team. Then we could try to get back to normal.

Another 'soft' aspect could be that network matters a lot in these things to get inside information and leads at the right time. While David Gill was a core and well trusted part of the upper echelons of footballing world (as shown by his post-United career), how many directors at other clubs still recognise Ed Woodword as his own? Does he even have any friends? He seems to be quite disconnected with this world and probably hated too, given how much he is able to run our fanbase the wrong way. That's got to be another massive disadvantage.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I mean in the last two years we spent £80m on Maguire (yeah we saved about £10m on what Leicester asked for originally, but it's still paying way over the odds), £50m on AWB (considering the Chilwell price its probably fair, buts still a lot of money - the top end of what you would pay for a player like AWB) and £50m on Fred (Good but nowhere near worth that)

So if I'm dealing with United, of course i'm going to ask for way more money then I would from any other club... 'cos chances are they'll pay it.

 

[romufc]

We do not know how to negotiate.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Harry Maguire, - World record transfer, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom. England international Centerback.
Dan James, highly regarded talent. bought for reasonable fee

Good post overall, but Dan James was a fecking rip-off and whilst that's technically correct about Maguire there's no questioning that we massively overpaid for how good he actually is - and that's on the club. Should've just walked away instead of balking to Leicester's ridiculous price tag.

 

[JPRouve]

We're just bad at negotiations.

Woodward should be left in charge of getting sponsors only.

No amount of being good at negotiations will put you in a favorable positions when you target players that are in demand, have lengthy contracts and play for clubs that aren't desperate for money. Keep in mind that the other side isn't made of idiots, they know what they have, it's not like in some movies where the main character can somehow bamboozle everyone. A good negotiator doesn't waste his time when he has no leverage, the first step of a good negotiation is to find the appropriate target.

 

[Sky1981]

When the top 3 firms in the world are looking to buy your product. Never sell it for cheap.

Cliche. But hey it works.

 

[Siorac]

Shambolically run big clubs that are under constant pressure because of underachievement tend to get fleeced, especially if they're known to be rich. See how much Barcelona spent on signings that didn't work out.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Also funnily enough after years of overpaying for players like Maguire, AWB, Fred etc. instead of walking away because the club won't negotiate, I'd say Sancho is the only one that's actually worth the fee being commanded for him, yet this time, we are walking away. Go figure.

 

[cyril C]

Don't you know City, Chelsea, MU, and now Liverpool, always get special treatment - add a 0 at the back. If you want basement deal, prepare a few business card as Newcastle rep., upon signing contract, just say BTW we need a new logo....

 

[Matriac]

We even got fleeced on Dan James. Leeds had him signed for half the price we paid.

But they didn't sign him for that price. The board decided it wasn't enough money to part with him so the transfer fell through. Next window we signed him for a higher price.

 

[ray24]

Doherty is 28 and scored 4g 3a last season. This is his last big long term contract. But he is the player he is, there is not significant development left there. £15m is a good deal but he's not worth £50m even before covid. Ben Chillwell being sold at £50m is very close to matching the price of AWB, at a similar age, this price is extremely comparable.

I think you're looking at a bit of confirmation bias here.

MUFC DOES pay somewhat a premium on transfers, but what have we bought that was out of price?

AWB? Young, proven talent. ~£50m, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom
Harry Maguire, - World record transfer, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom. England international Centerback.
Dan James, highly regarded talent. bought for reasonable fee
Bruno Fernandes, highly regarded international player at the start of his prime years, bought for a resonable fee

Negotiating for Jadon Sancho. One of football greatest talents, under long term contract in a club that does not need to sell with CL ambition.

Where are we getting fleeced here? None of these players were bought for a higher price than the market dictated. Leicester never had any incentive to sell Harry Maguire. Their only incentive was enough money.

There are a number of things that dictate player transfer values: Contract term, production, age, talent status, selling club financial status, buying club financial status, market player is bought in, players desire to leave the club. Football clubs are tradeable companies and ROI is absolutely a factor in determining how high they're willing to go.

I actually disagree that we're paying too much for players to the tune of "our negotiators are piss poor". The players we target are different than say, Tottenham.

Ed Woodward saying things in public about our financial muscles is unimportant, clubs don't see that and realize that we can ask for anything. Selling clubs actually do due dilligence, they already know how much money the club has to throw around, the club accounts are largely open to the public from the previous fiscal year. - Add that to the previous list and you have the ballpark figure you negotiate a transfer fee in.

I mean, I'm just a fan and even I have a pretty good idea what transfer fees we can operate with - Although my professional background certainly helps. Actual poweraccountants at say, Dortmund, aren't fooled by public press.

The club lack what Chelsea have, an owner that is willing to funnel money INTO the club, our owners take substantial share dividends, so we have to be more careful than a club like Chelsea or Manchester City that are supported by keen investors.

MUFC don't have bad negotiators, but why progress appear to draw out so much I honestly can't tell besides common stalling tactics and considerations.

You guys simply do not take any risk in terms of signing players. Daniel James aside, you guys have tried to go for Premier league proven, or other top-level "proven" players from other top leagues. You guys rarely buy players from outside of England, and even when you do, you are buying big name players that will cost a fortune.

I am not sure about your scouting network, but you guys really have a bad football administration network and contacts. The reason why some clubs have director of football is to allow someone to develop the networks and contacts with other football clubs. So that you know which club desperately needs money and which club doesn't. Cheap Transfers can happen because club directors have close contacts with each other. Liverpool bought Minaminio for a mere £7 million because they know about his clause before any other major club did.

 

[JPRouve]

I think this is spot on. Considering our supposedly vast scouting network, we have a terrible habits of just going for obvious choices that will come at a very high price. I refuse to believe that there weren't cheaper options than Maguire and AWB last summer but Ole seems to be obsessed with snapping up English players so there we go.

The thing is the PL proven type is important, I do think that United should get at least one of those every 24 months but it cannot be systematic for all transfers because these players that have the reputation of being known quantities in the wealthiest league in the world are going to be expensive and have been increasingly expensive with the TV rights money growth(which is by the way the reason behind the market going out of whack).

 

[stevoc]

The central figure at Utd at board-level is Ed fecking Woodward.

Club is run by people who aren't football people and aren't respected by football people.

In short - club run by muppets.

Compare that to a Roman or a Levy and it's crystal clear the difference in what you're dealing with.

Are Roman Abramovich and Daniel Levy football people?

 

[Mickeza]

But they didn't sign him for that price. The board decided it wasn't enough money to part with him so the transfer fell through. Next window we signed him for a higher price.

And he was clearly worth more as he’d had a great 6 months hence why United were after him. We don’t get fleeced at all, no more than other top clubs when they try to sign players off clubs who don’t want/need to sell.

The Doherty price is odd. I have no idea why he’s only going for 15m.

 

[Timdbro]

The central figure at Utd at board-level is Ed fecking Woodward.

Club is run by people who aren't football people and aren't respected by football people.

In short - club run by muppets.

Compare that to a Roman or a Levy and it's crystal clear the difference in what you're dealing with.

What exactly is a 'football person'? Is it just someone that's been involved with football for x many years, or someone who's played at some professional level?
Not that I think Ed's any good by the way, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but based on all the information we do have I would also like him to be replaced, or limited to just the financial aspects of running the club.
I'm just curious what people mean exactly when they say this - Levy and Roman are no more footballing people than Ed as far as I can tell. Marina Granovskaia was Roman's PA to start with, and she's been getting lots of praise for Chelsea's transfer window.
It seems like no one really cares if someone comes from a traditional footballing background, as long as they're good at their job. Unfortunately our current ones just don't seem to be very good at the sporting aspects.

 

[0le]

Regarding the selling aspect, I am pretty sure Fergie said we sold long term club players cheaply to "not get in their way" because we did not need the funds.

 

[Siorac]

The thing is the PL proven type is important

Is it though? From Lukaku to Sanchez, from Schneiderlin to Fellaini - I'd say we have as bad a record with supposedly PL proven players as with signing players from anywhere else.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think this is spot on. Considering our supposedly vast scouting network, we have a terrible habits of just going for obvious choices that will come at a very high price. I refuse to believe that there weren't cheaper options than Maguire and AWB last summer but Ole seems to be obsessed with snapping up English players so there we go.

The weird thing about Maguire was that he was seemingly the only choice for both us and City... as if there wasn't another centre back in the world.

 

[diarm]

It's also worth bearing in mind that we're competing with clubs who aren't necessarily playing by the same rules we are.

While every penny we spend on a player is clearly accounted for and public knowledge before long, we have rivals who might sign a player for £20m through their books but then give the owner of that club god knows what on his next holiday in Dubai or the Seychelles. We're a football club competing with geopolitical players who have the means and influence to do whatever they like, whenever they like.

At the moment we're paying for the stupidity of our owners, chief exective and first 3 managers in the aftermath of Fergie retiring. But as we drag ourselves out of that mess we made for ourselves, we need to be looking at the likes of Bayern Munich or Liverpool as examples of well run clubs, rather than comparing ourselves to the public sham image of state run clubs like City, PSG or even Chelsea.

 

[Icemav]

Doherty is 28 and scored 4g 3a last season. This is his last big long term contract. But he is the player he is, there is not significant development left there. £15m is a good deal but he's not worth £50m even before covid. Ben Chillwell being sold at £50m is very close to matching the price of AWB, at a similar age, this price is extremely comparable.

I think you're looking at a bit of confirmation bias here.

MUFC DOES pay somewhat a premium on transfers, but what have we bought that was out of price?

AWB? Young, proven talent. ~£50m, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom
Harry Maguire, - World record transfer, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom. England international Centerback.
Dan James, highly regarded talent. bought for reasonable fee
Bruno Fernandes, highly regarded international player at the start of his prime years, bought for a resonable fee

Negotiating for Jadon Sancho. One of football greatest talents, under long term contract in a club that does not need to sell with CL ambition.

Where are we getting fleeced here? None of these players were bought for a higher price than the market dictated. Leicester never had any incentive to sell Harry Maguire. Their only incentive was enough money.

There are a number of things that dictate player transfer values: Contract term, production, age, talent status, selling club financial status, buying club financial status, market player is bought in, players desire to leave the club. Football clubs are tradeable companies and ROI is absolutely a factor in determining how high they're willing to go.

I actually disagree that we're paying too much for players to the tune of "our negotiators are piss poor". The players we target are different than say, Tottenham.

Ed Woodward saying things in public about our financial muscles is unimportant, clubs don't see that and realize that we can ask for anything. Selling clubs actually do due dilligence, they already know how much money the club has to throw around, the club accounts are largely open to the public from the previous fiscal year. - Add that to the previous list and you have the ballpark figure you negotiate a transfer fee in.

I mean, I'm just a fan and even I have a pretty good idea what transfer fees we can operate with - Although my professional background certainly helps. Actual poweraccountants at say, Dortmund, aren't fooled by public press.

The club lack what Chelsea have, an owner that is willing to funnel money INTO the club, our owners take substantial share dividends, so we have to be more careful than a club like Chelsea or Manchester City that are supported by keen investors.

MUFC don't have bad negotiators, but why progress appear to draw out so much I honestly can't tell besides common stalling tactics and considerations.

You are talking too much sense. Surely this deserves a thread ban

 

[hanovercigars]

Basic economics, price goes up based on supply and demand. Only it isn't the market which is affecting supply and demand in this case, it is the buyer itself (United). United restrict the supply by only targeting one player transfer at a time. They mention list of players for one position but how credible are these and it is rare to hear concurrent negotiations for multiple players. We then increase the demand because of the need to get a transfer done before the end of the window and can't walk away because we haven't complete other deals.

If you go to a car dealership and tell them you are not going to leave without buying a car, expect the price to be higher.

 

[JPRouve]

Is it though? From Lukaku to Sanchez, from Schneiderlin to Fellaini - I'd say we have as bad a record with supposedly PL proven players as with signing players from anywhere else.

And we have been underperforming during that period of time. Yes, it is important to had low risk transfers in your strategy and the fact that we botched even that part is on us, for me Lukaku and Fellaini were big no because they proved their level in the PL which wasn't good enough, Sanchez was a risky signing because he was struggling with Arsenal and at the end of his twenties. And I'm not trying to make the point that any player coming from the PL should be a priority or the ideal signing, I'm saying that PL proven players should be included in our strategy and players like Mané, Van Dijk or Carrick are the type of players that should be targeted from time to time because they are PL proven, have the quality that you are looking for and have the correct age.

 

[AshRK]

Because on most occasions we make our target public and have no solid back up plan for that. We expect managers to do everything at this club, managing, scouting, signing players, convincing players.

It seems woodward loves making these big signing to increase his PR and he doesn't mind if that means delayed transfer.