Why I don't think we should sack Solskjaer...now

Champagne Football

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I can see that you still believe in our board, that they will spend money in January. I can assure you that won't be happening.
We may get a player on loan, but not a player who can completely change our current trajectory.
I do feel sorry for fans who genuinely believe that we will improve our squad and our results.

I am 45 years old and I have seen us when we were beating EVERYBODY! Back in the mid-90s, in the EPL, we were dominant. In 1998 we were terrific. in 1999, even better. Then we ushered the era of Ronaldo and Rooney.
To see fans in 2019 have such low expectations that a manager can have us in 9th place and be accepting of this, is very disappointing.
Fans should be demanding that we compete for a top 4 position every season and with a decent spend, finish top 3.

If Ole stays, I can see us finishing in 7th place. Don't forget that 2 years ago we finished 2nd and many fans were unhappy with this.
I would disagree with most of that. Bringing in a short-termism manager who spends like there's no tomorrow, like Mr. Mourinho is the reason we're in such a huge mess. Yes he finished second, but his kamikaze panic buy spending has saddled the club with Fiat Uno's that were bought for Ferrari prices - Lindelof, Fred, Alexis Sanchez, Matic etc. That's close to 200 million quid on that 4, for players that are either midtable, or on the sharp downward trajectory.
Fergie success came about from 6 long painful years of building. Ole may not be the man, but sometimes you can get lucky with a loan deal in January who can make the difference, Hendrick Larsson being one of Fergies most famous ones.
 

edcunited1878

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I can see that you still believe in our board, that they will spend money in January. I can assure you that won't be happening.
We may get a player on loan, but not a player who can completely change our current trajectory.
I do feel sorry for fans who genuinely believe that we will improve our squad and our results.

I am 45 years old and I have seen us when we were beating EVERYBODY! Back in the mid-90s, in the EPL, we were dominant. In 1998 we were terrific. in 1999, even better. Then we ushered the era of Ronaldo and Rooney.
To see fans in 2019 have such low expectations that a manager can have us in 9th place and be accepting of this, is very disappointing.
Fans should be demanding that we compete for a top 4 position every season and with a decent spend, finish top 3.

If Ole stays, I can see us finishing in 7th place. Don't forget that 2 years ago we finished 2nd and many fans were unhappy with this.
United haven't been this bad in quality combined with the the competitiveness of the other 19 league clubs in decades. United have almost always had superior players across the pitch with a few workman like but talented players. In addition, their mentality and attitude fit the bill. The past 5/6 years, that hasn't been the case.

United haven't built anything year over year over year since the SAF years. No manager has lasted 3 full seasons and with that their approach has gone with the team as well. Moyes. LVG. Mourinho. Ole. Longest tenured manager is Mourinho with 2 full years and 3/4 months. That's the very definition of start and stop. Zero continuity. The only continuity has been Woodward and whatever football decision makers he has around him.

The spend has been there, but the quality of it has been horrific. Maguire and AWB have been good, but central midfield has been neglected both quality and functionality. Left back is inconsistent with injury and quality. The most consistent forward player this season has been Dan James, although I thought he wasn't up for the races on Sunday. He still had some good moments and balls into the box.

Fans shouldn't demand anything but enough quality to earn the right to compete at the top - that's what a big club affords you. A platform. But it's up to those in charge and with influence to build on that platform. United don't have enough quality from the manager to the players, nevermind the board/decision makers.
 

Enigma_87

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If Rodgers get CL football he’d be mad to not continue that journey with Leicester. To let someone else continue that will would be tragic.
Not really. It's not like he has a chance of winning it.

Ranieri got them CL too, look at how that ended...
 

momo83

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Not really. It's not like he has a chance of winning it.

Ranieri got them CL too, look at how that ended...
Leicester actually did very well. Granted Ranieri already got sacked, but still to get to the QF was a great achievement and they were unlucky vs Atletico.

Also it’s been the same teams dominating the CL last 8 for ages, sooner or later there’ll be a non tradition and non new rich team that comes in, similar to how Atletico suddenly became a regular SF and Final team a few years ago. I think if Rodgers thinks he can do that he’ll give it a try.
 

Green_Red

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Julian Negelswho?

Unfortunately youve written a post about why we should keep Ole in charge but pointed out all the reasons we should get rid.
 

Zlatattack

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Eh? When did this happen?
When Klopp left Dortmund LVG was in charge here and was doing pretty poorly. Then all the Liverpool rumours swirled and the Caf really wanted him. However some people wanted to keep LVG even then. He ended up at Liverpool. I think we should have really tried to sign him.

Who knows what the truth was in the background. Maybe we tried and he said no?
 

OhGee

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So i have vehemently defended Ole so far and had plenty of discussion with people on this forum on the subject. Yes i have given him more rope because i loved him as a player, i am fully admitting that, but considering our situation i would have been willing to give most managers plenty of time.

Aston Villa was a breaking point for me though. Not because that game was so much worse than any other game this season, but because it became abundantly clear to me that this "progress" i thought i was seeing was just wishful thinking. We started scoring again, but at the same time we forgot how to defend. The squad is the worst United squad i have seen, but we should be doing better than this. In other words: Ole isnt making the most of this squad, but the big question is why?

Tactics gets mentioned a lot, which is something i disagree with. Yes 4231 when all of our #10 options are terrible seems like a bad idea, but we dont really have the right players for 433 either. Team selections have also largely been pretty decent in my opinion. Yes Pereria is fecking horrible, and lots of people are crying out for Garner, but throwing an 18 year old into a dysfunctional side like this could be disastrous both for the player and for the team. We also had a couple of matches: Liverpool, Chelsea, and the comeback vs Sheffield where Ole has shown some tactical nous, so i dont think his tactics are all that bad.

What i do see though is a bunch of players, limited as they might be, constantly making the wrong decisions and lacking any real fight and THAT is on the manager. Just at the top of my head and in no particular order of importance this is what i see again and again it is absolutely infuriating

1) We put in cross after cross with no one at the end of it. Very often its James who gets down to the line and he zips one in between the goalie and their defense. Everyone who has watched football knows where that fecking ball is going to come, yet time and time again there is just one maybe two players even near the goal, and both of them are hanging out at the edge of the box or maybe one of them has taken up some useless position at the back post. Every other team seems able to do this, yet we dont

2) There is no fight in us. Ole has talked loads about improving fitness and mentality, which i thought looked better for a while, but turned out to be nothing. It seems pretty much every lose ball ends up with the opponent because no one is willing to get stuck in so we have 5 players ball watching, hoping that someone else goes into the duel because they wont.

3) The distance between defense-midfield and midfield-attack is fecking huge and that link is just not there. I watched a few Sheffield games this year and how they move as a unit is fascinating to watch. Everyone is moving all the time so they are never outnumbered and thus often have plenty of passing options. When we try to play for the back though we end up wide 9/10 because our CB's only have our fullbacks as passing options.

4) This is closely connected to #3 and #1, but we never seem to attack in numbers. Once one of James, Rashford or Martial has the ball it seems everyone else just stops and hope they will sort it out. I am not saying our CM's should charge into the box, but at the very least they should move up to pile on the pressure and be the first on on lose balls that fall down around the box.

5) Our mentality is severely lacking. We seem to be playing with a sort of an arrogance we have NOT deserved. Time and time again this year we have only started playing only after we have went down and we cant hang onto a lead if our lives depended on it. It seems these players think they are much better than they actually are and its unacceptable that it keeps happening. Fergie would never let this kind of nonsense stand

6) Movement is fecking shit. All over the pitch. Zombie football is not something new under Ole, but it has not improved either

All that taken into consideration, does Ole deserve to be sacked? Yes, he probably does. This squad is bad, but it is not THAT bad either, but i still think its a bad idea to sack him now for a couple of very important reasons.
1) The only available "top" coaches who are available now are Poch and Allegri and i dont trust either of them to turn this around. Allegri would be Jose v2 in my eyes and that is not what we need right now. Poch is a favorite among many here, but i dont trust him either for some key reasons
1a) Despite popular belief he never built that Spurs side and had nothing to do with transfers
1b) He had a very good squad at his disposal and never won a thing. No offense to Poch, but he seems like a massive bottler to me
2) Taking over this fecking trainwreck puts any new manager in a very difficult spot. The only thing you can realistically change right away is tactics and i sincerely doubt that would be enough to turn us around. Coaching and change in mentality takes a lot of time, so realistically we would be around March-April before we could see some real changes. People will point to the new manager bounce we had under Ole, but that had more to do with the players being relieved of Jose being gone and it seemed many of them had a point to prove (which is pretty maddening to be honest, they play like demons when they wanted to one up Jose but cant be bothered now? Feck off)
3) If we change managers now we wont be doing any business in January, which we badly need

Ole looks like he was the wrong man for us. No shame in not being a Man Utd manager, very few are but i firmly believe the best thing for us is to stick with him until the end of the year and then let the new manager have the preseason and the transfer window. Who? Julian Nagelsmann looks very impressive to me and hopefully we can convince him to come here. I read some articles about him and what he has done is incredibly impressive for a 32 year old. But even if he was available today i would have waited because i dont want any manager to get thrown into this shitshow. Let them start the new season with blank slates and hopefully a better squad
Lengthy post but I stopped reading after you mentioned Ole’s tactical nous against Chelsea, Liverpool and Sheffield Utd. Fact is against Chelsea they were all over us in the first 20-25 min and had they been more clinical we would have 2-0 down and the result would have been completely different. Against Liverpool we played 3 in the back and they struggled in the first half. Second half Klopp showed the tactical nous and changed formation and they were all over us. Ole did not adapt to Klopp’s changes and stuck with the same formation and we drew the game. Against Sheffield Utd, Ole tried to be smart again and play 3 in the back. They were all over us because our players were uncomfortable in the formation. If he was tactically astute he should have realized that the formation was not right and if he did want to hook players off after 20 min he should have at least slotted Jones in mid and switched to a back 4. In the end he went gung ho all attack and we were 3 up and looking like scoring again. What does he do? Takes off the only player that can hold up play upfront and play with his back to the opposition and switch again to ....wait for it...a back 3 again and guess what they equalize. Please don’t give me crap about Ole’s tactical nous and astuteness- fact his all of him and Carrick and Kenna a small fish trying to swim in a big big pond of great whites.
 

mu4c_20le

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Lengthy post but I stopped reading after you mentioned Ole’s tactical nous against Chelsea, Liverpool and Sheffield Utd. Fact is against Chelsea they were all over us in the first 20-25 min and had they been more clinical we would have 2-0 down and the result would have been completely different.
I stopped reading here when you started throwing around silly hypotheticals to suit your point. If we were more clinical we would have turned many draws into wins and be in top 4 right now. If Pogba wasn't injured we might even be challenging for the title.
 

James Ward

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I don't think Ole has the tactical knowledge to pull off the formation we are currently using. He has to switch to a deep 4-5-1 formation.

There is no shape to United whatsoever whether defending or attacking and this truly annoys me.

Defending
Midfielders and forwards have no idea where they are meant to be situated on the pitch when United are defending. There is no structure here whatsoever and it's like the players have a free roam. If you watch the top clubs in the league they all know their positions when defending and there is a good solid line in front of the defense. Players know exactly what to do and work with each other to keep that line in front of the defense.

Attacking
Again players are all over the place and the wing backs have no clue whether to go forward or to stay back as I really don't think they know who will be covering them.
United's players get to the final third and then panic. They stand on the edge of the box not knowing what to do with ball and no one gets into the box when a ball eventually goes in. This is every single game. We should be playing deeper and hitting them with pace and Ole you know that the wing backs and wingers should be working together yea?

All I can hope for with Ole is that he stops the formations he is currently using as he doesn't know how to setup tactically for them and our midfield is too useless to make it work in any way whatsoever.

Just switch to a deep 4-5-1 Ole and it will make it easier for you. Defend deep and hit on the break instead of having Marital Rashford and James too far forward as there is no link up play with midfield and not getting the service. No point of only attacking when the other team is settled defensively Ole.

Feel free to PM me Ole and we might get a result against Spurs and City.
 

Irwin99

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I stopped reading here when you started throwing around silly hypotheticals to suit your point. If we were more clinical we would have turned many draws into wins and be in top 4 right now. If Pogba wasn't injured we might even be challenging for the title.
:eek:
We had 4 points from our opening 4 games with Pogba and McTominay starting and it looked a really unbalanced combo. Pogba is probably our only world class player but he doesn't change results like West ham or Sheffield United. He would NOT have liked those games.
 

mu4c_20le

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:eek:
We had 4 points from our opening 4 games with Pogba and McTominay starting and it looked a really unbalanced combo. Pogba is probably our only world class player but he doesn't change results like West ham or Sheffield United. He would NOT have liked those games.
Of course I wasn't 100% serious, but if we're going to look at close games and see if they could have ended differently, then we've definitely been unlucky this season in addition to being poor. Arsenal and Liverpool were very winnable games until we threw it away.
 

WR10

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Just a reminder that Ole has won 7 games out of 33 at Manchester United as a permanent manager. He has failed to win 26/33 games.
 

TheReligion

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A knee-jerk sacking of Ole is pointless.

At this point, our best possible season is looking like;

- Top Half
- Decent cup runs
- Youth players being given minutes, productively.
- A strong January window, singing two good young players.

Tearing it all up in November probably doesn’t advance anything all that much.

It’s a truly terrible season. But a long term fix and time frame is a better solution than another round of disruption.

We’re a great club. We need a long term (5-10) year plan. The rest of the year should have a focus on finishing in the Champions League spots in 8 of the next 10 years, winning it, along with a Premier League title in that same period.

The Glazers are not going to buy 3 world class players in one summer. They’re not. Ever. There will be no quick fix.

If we can’t get a manager now that can preside over the next 3 years of that, why would we look to employ one?

The squad is more talented than it’s been in a long time (albeit very, very raw) Is the coaching there? No. Is the Tactical acumen? No. But we have cleared out older players, signed younger players. Pausing for a few months is not some disaster.

Im not happy. Far from it. There is so much work to do. But it needs to have some kind of framework attached to it. Sacking Ole now and appointing someone else needs to exist within that framework.
Good post
 

Bobcat

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Julian Negelswho?

Unfortunately youve written a post about why we should keep Ole in charge but pointed out all the reasons we should get rid.
Nagelsmann, who has taken RP Leipzig to the CL knockout stages at 32 years old.

I think we should keep him until the end of the year because our problems run so deep that simply changing the manager wont solve anything short term. The things i mentioned are partly a coaching issue, but also partly a player quality issue, so while they may slightly improve under a different manager they will never be solved completely. And even if it was purely a coaching issue, that would take lots of time to rectify

But to sum it up
1) I dont think anything can be rectified and no season "salvaged" by appointing a new manager now.
2) If a new manager comes in now and has a mediocre finish to the season, the pressure will already be at max once we start the new season in August
3) None of the managers that are available now fill me with confidence.
4) New manager does not need 6 months to "assess the squad". If another manager is interested in the job they will do their homework. Even among fans and pundits there is some sort of consensus on which players are good enough and which ones are not.

And whoever we appoint next, we have to be abso-fecking-lutely sure they are willing to do all the dirty work that remains
 

SplitzMagic

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When Klopp left Dortmund LVG was in charge here and was doing pretty poorly. Then all the Liverpool rumours swirled and the Caf really wanted him. However some people wanted to keep LVG even then. He ended up at Liverpool. I think we should have really tried to sign him.

Who knows what the truth was in the background. Maybe we tried and he said no?
Yeah we did try for him and he said no. It came out recently that it was his Mrs that stopped him.

I do like Klopp but I can't stand his meme face.
 

Nickelodeon

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A knee-jerk sacking of Ole is pointless.

At this point, our best possible season is looking like;

- Top Half
- Decent cup runs
- Youth players being given minutes, productively.
- A strong January window, singing two good young players.

Tearing it all up in November probably doesn’t advance anything all that much.

It’s a truly terrible season. But a long term fix and time frame is a better solution than another round of disruption.

We’re a great club. We need a long term (5-10) year plan. The rest of the year should have a focus on finishing in the Champions League spots in 8 of the next 10 years, winning it, along with a Premier League title in that same period.

The Glazers are not going to buy 3 world class players in one summer. They’re not. Ever. There will be no quick fix.

If we can’t get a manager now that can preside over the next 3 years of that, why would we look to employ one?

The squad is more talented than it’s been in a long time (albeit very, very raw) Is the coaching there? No. Is the Tactical acumen? No. But we have cleared out older players, signed younger players. Pausing for a few months is not some disaster.

Im not happy. Far from it. There is so much work to do. But it needs to have some kind of framework attached to it. Sacking Ole now and appointing someone else needs to exist within that framework.
I think our definition of the word knee jerk is significantly different than the rest of the league. We are a top club and yet we show more patience to mediocrity than say a Watford or even an Arsenal. Spurs have sacked their manager who led them to a CL final just 5 months on. Yet, for us, sacking managers despite months and months of shit is still a knee jerk.

Just for fun, can you name a single manager in the modern premier league era who has had such a shitty start for a top club and then turn things around to be deemed successful?
 

Eleven-Eighteen

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Yes Ole's record, as far as statistics go, has been bad. The 23% win rate mentioned is simply pedestrian for a club of United's stature. Our defence has suddenly fallen off the map, and our midfield...well the less said the better.

But i don't think this is all down to him. Ole has signed 3 amazing players who are consistent starters and make an impact every single game (with Maguire's last couple of games an exception). This wasn't true for Jose nor was it true for LvG. Their signings did feck all on the pitch.

Secondly, Williams has been quite the revelation. And people hated Ole fielding academy graduates at Astana but i thought he smartly took cognizance of our thin squad and gave some kids a chance in a game that would have been exhausting for our first team.

Third and most importantly, I find myself at the edge of my seat far more with this current United set-up than i ever did with the last 3 managers. It's not good enough, i agree. United teams should have you hooked on for at least 75 out of 90 minutes, whereas we're only at about 30 minutes right now. But we are creating chances, from both wings and sometimes down the middle. And having a clinical attacker up top would have almost certainly got us 6 extra points across Villa, Sheffield and one more i can't remember.

Lastly, as the OP says - it would make zero sense to sack Ole right now even if you didn't think he was the man for the job. In fact, we may never get the United of old back as long as Shitward is in charge.

So instead of all the Ole out, i say we get behind our manager, a club legend, and someone well intentioned and instead focus all this energy against Woodward and the Glazers. Because they're the real problem.
 

el3mel

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But that's not correct. Expectations are really high, otherwise people wouldn't be complaining about life in mid table. The expectation is that, with a crap squad, we should be top 4, or as close to it as makes no difference. If a new manager came in, they would be expected to hit top 4 form, straight out, otherwise we go into this cycle again.

Irrespective of manager, we don't have the players, or rather we don't have enough of the requisite quality players to cope when a few get injured.
Top 4 is about the minimum you can expect from any big team. Expecting anything lower than that and we will start solidifying our place as a mid-table club.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I think our definition of the word knee jerk is significantly different than the rest of the league. We are a top club and yet we show more patience to mediocrity than say a Watford or even an Arsenal. Spurs have sacked their manager who led them to a CL final just 5 months on. Yet, for us, sacking managers despite months and months of shit is still a knee jerk.

Just for fun, can you name a single manager in the modern premier league era who has had such a shitty start for a top club and then turn things around to be deemed successful?
None of my post suggests that Ole will turn it around. Read it again.
 

Gator Nate

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:eek:
We had 4 points from our opening 4 games with Pogba and McTominay starting and it looked a really unbalanced combo. Pogba is probably our only world class player but he doesn't change results like West ham or Sheffield United. He would NOT have liked those games.
Yes, but Fred was out, so he had P&McT sitting back and Pereira up. Now, he can put F&McT sitting back and move Pogba up, which should be much more functional as F&McT had started forming a good understanding prior to McT getting a knock. In theory, anyway.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Maybe we tried and he said no?
That's precisely what happened, apparently. He wasn't interested, though - or didn't like the pitch Woodward was laying on him.

Apparently - I stress. But I vaguely recall that Klopp himself has confirmed it, i.e. that he was indeed approached by United (but didn't like what Woodward was trying to sell to him - the "Disneyland for adults" business, etc. ).

Might also add that if the above actually happened, in pretty much that way, it's very sad - and very damning for Woodward.
 

Irwin99

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Yes, but Fred was out, so he had P&McT sitting back and Pereira up. Now, he can put F&McT sitting back and move Pogba up, which should be much more functional as F&McT had started forming a good understanding prior to McT getting a knock. In theory, anyway.

Yeah i'd like to see that although Pogba did start all of the preseason as a 6 and he was constantly being promoted by the manager as that player that would dominate possession from a deeper position, which you just knew was always going to be controversial. I predicted this would be one of the most annoying and contentious parts of the season- that fans would be arguing about Pogba's best position constantly all year...i've been proven wrong but i like to think it was only because of his injury :lol:

I hope for Ole's sake he's open to trying different tactics when he gets all his midfield back. Fred Mctom and Pogba in theory could be similar to Matic Herrera Pogba combo that was effective last season.
 

Nickelodeon

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None of my post suggests that Ole will turn it around. Read it again.
Then how will sacking him be a knee jerk? We can choose not to employ one of the available options but getting any new man in, even on interim basis, could bring a some tactical know-how and a new manager bounce which could actually help in salvaging some part of the remaining season.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Then how will sacking him be a knee jerk? We can choose not to employ one of the available options but getting any new man in, even on interim basis, could bring a some tactical know-how and a new manager bounce which could actually help in salvaging some part of the remaining season.
If sacking him now, doesn’t bring in exactly who we want, as part of a long term vision.... there’s no point. All Businesses have Frameworks for Change & Success that span very long periods. We should have one.
 

UpWithRivers

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How is this even a discussion still. Literally the worst manager we have had. 9 months of top level football management experience. Nothing going for him except history and fairy tale romance stories. Why sack him now? Because he already crashed us into the ground and now is powering up and crashing again and again. Because we have some pride. Because we have to have some level of what we can accept. Because we have to have accountability. Because at some point you just have to say enough. Enough damn it!
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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How is this even a discussion still. Literally the worst manager we have had. 9 months of top level football management experience. Nothing going for him except history and fairy tale romance stories. Why sack him now? Because he already crashed us into the ground and now is powering up and crashing again and again. Because we have some pride. Because we have to have some level of what we can accept. Because we have to have accountability. Because at some point you just have to say enough. Enough damn it!
Thats such a precious view.

United Fans nowadays seem to have this attitude that we should always be winning the league. That’s never been the case for any team in England and I doubt it ever will be.

We need a plan. We need new players, youth players to step up.

A plan to let Ole see out the season, with a remit, is smart, if we are planning for June and all the years beyond it. He’s not dismantling the club. He’s not damaging relationships. He’s not the man for the job, but we need to stop tearing up the script and thinking a bit of money and a new manager is going to see us on top again. It’s not.
 

Ralph1386

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Thats such a precious view.

United Fans nowadays seem to have this attitude that we should always be winning the league. That’s never been the case for any team in England and I doubt it ever will be.

We need a plan. We need new players, youth players to step up.

A plan to let Ole see out the season, with a remit, is smart, if we are planning for June and all the years beyond it. He’s not dismantling the club. He’s not damaging relationships. He’s not the man for the job, but we need to stop tearing up the script and thinking a bit of money and a new manager is going to see us on top again. It’s not.
We need a plan. But Ole should not be the manager in that plan. His results so far, and his previous coaching/managing credentials, do not justify him being Manchester United manager in whatever plan we want to talk about. The only thing he's got going for him is that he's a former player who was loved by the fans during his playing career. That does not justify him being the manager and it is not an insult towards him in any way.

Woodward should also not be in that plan as DOF.
 

He'sRaldo

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Woodward has to go before Ole, or at least delegate properly.

Or else we'll be back to square one in no time.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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We need a plan. But Ole should not be the manager in that plan. His results so far, and his previous coaching/managing credentials, do not justify him being Manchester United manager in whatever plan we want to talk about. The only thing he's got going for him is that he's a former player who was loved by the fans during his playing career. That does not justify him being the manager and it is not an insult towards him in any way.

Woodward should also not be in that plan as DOF.
This was my original post. Ole can be replaced without sacking him now, Welcoming more disruption and noise into the club. Nothing is THAT bad. Everything is fixable. But the next 6 months are simply not important.

Structure. Positive forward movement. No backward steps. Have the final day of this season as the first stage of a proper plan.


A knee-jerk sacking of Ole is pointless.

At this point, our best possible season is looking like;

- Top Half
- Decent cup runs
- Youth players being given minutes, productively.
- A strong January window, singing two good young players.

Tearing it all up in November probably doesn’t advance anything all that much.

It’s a truly terrible season. But a long term fix and time frame is a better solution than another round of disruption.

We’re a great club. We need a long term (5-10) year plan. The rest of the year should have a focus on finishing in the Champions League spots in 8 of the next 10 years, winning it, along with a Premier League title in that same period.

The Glazers are not going to buy 3 world class players in one summer. They’re not. Ever. There will be no quick fix.

If we can’t get a manager now that can preside over the next 3 years of that, why would we look to employ one?

The squad is more talented than it’s been in a long time (albeit very, very raw) Is the coaching there? No. Is the Tactical acumen? No. But we have cleared out older players, signed younger players. Pausing for a few months is not some disaster.

Im not happy. Far from it. There is so much work to do. But it needs to have some kind of framework attached to it. Sacking Ole now and appointing someone else needs to exist within that framework.
 
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Im not happy. Far from it. There is so much work to do. But it needs to have some kind of framework attached to it. Sacking Ole now and appointing someone else needs to exist within that framework.
Well it certainly wouldn't be "knee-jerk" but I do agree with your excellent point at the end here. If we decide not to continue with Ole (and my God we should), it needs to be with a plan in mind and not to simply go out and panic sign the best available manager.

The alternative in that case would be to scout and interview managers now, sign the right one up for January (only if we're certain he's the kind of manager who has a proven track record at rebuilding a club in the manner we are attempting), else sign him up to start in the Summer.

If we are signing someone for the Summer, then getting in a caretaker may be pointless and it might be a case of keeping Ole doing what he is doing for the next 6 months but would he want to do that knowing he's being replaced? If he's not, bring a caretaker in for the next 6 months that is someone who aligns to the same way of thinking, as the incoming manager does.
 
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Bobcat

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Well it certainly wouldn't be "knee-jerk" but I do agree with your excellent point at the end here. If we decide not to continue with Ole (and my God we should), it needs to be with a plan in mind and not to simply go out and panic sign the best available manager.

The alternative in that case would be to scout and interview managers now, sign the right one up for January (only if we're certain he's the kind of manager who has a proven track record at rebuilding a club in the manner we are attempting), else sign him up to start in the Summer.

If we are signing someone for the Summer, then getting in a caretaker may be pointless and it might be a case of keeping Ole doing what he is doing for the next 6 months but would he want to do that knowing he's being replaced? If he's not, bring a caretaker in for the next 6 months that is someone who aligns to the same way of thinking, as the incoming manager does.
The worst part is, there is just one that i can think of and hes currently employed at Liverpool.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Well it certainly wouldn't be "knee-jerk" but I do agree with your excellent point at the end here. If we decide not to continue with Ole (and my God we should), it needs to be with a plan in mind and not to simply go out and panic sign the best available manager.

The alternative in that case would be to scout and interview managers now, sign the right one up for January (only if we're certain he's the kind of manager who has a proven track record at rebuilding a club in the manner we are attempting), else sign him up to start in the Summer.

If we are signing someone for the Summer, then getting in a caretaker may be pointless and it might be a case of keeping Ole doing what he is doing for the next 6 months but would he want to do that knowing he's being replaced? If he's not, bring a caretaker in for the next 6 months that is someone who aligns to the same way of thinking, as the incoming manager does.
Or.... Just get Ole working with knowledge of the new coach direction, implementing what’s possible, managing the squad through a period of transition. Like adults do.

Imagine : No cloak and dagger coverage of Woodward in restaurants with usurpers. No squad noise. A club-wide understanding of where we are going.

There’s opportunity there. But we’ll p1ss it away
 

UpWithRivers

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Thats such a precious view.

United Fans nowadays seem to have this attitude that we should always be winning the league. That’s never been the case for any team in England and I doubt it ever will be.

We need a plan. We need new players, youth players to step up.

A plan to let Ole see out the season, with a remit, is smart, if we are planning for June and all the years beyond it. He’s not dismantling the club. He’s not damaging relationships. He’s not the man for the job, but we need to stop tearing up the script and thinking a bit of money and a new manager is going to see us on top again. It’s not.
Nothing in my post says we should be winning the league every season. Ole is damaging the club. How can being the worst manager with the worst results not damage the club? You think results dont matter? Well then lets just get relegated. No harm done. How do you think we look like to the rest of the football world? Incompetent, useless, a joke? That ruins our reputation. That ruins attracting star players. That is a slap in the face of our history. That dismantles our club.
No one said a new manager will bring instant glory. The past managers have proved that. But what choice do we have. Give in? Oh well the past managers didnt work and yeah this one is the worst we have but we cant see any reason to believe it will get any better so lets just stick at it. Thats the most ridiculous view. If a country is failing they vote for a new administration. If a company is failing they hire a new CEO. If a football club is failing they hire a new manager. Unless your Kodak.
 
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Or.... Just get Ole working with knowledge of the new coach direction, implementing what’s possible, managing the squad through a period of transition. Like adults do.

Imagine : No cloak and dagger coverage of Woodward in restaurants with usurpers. No squad noise. A club-wide understanding of where we are going.

There’s opportunity there. But we’ll p1ss it away
That’s kinda what I said to be fair, just questioned whether Ole would or not and I think he still would, he knows this is a privilege.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Tend to agree, and who knows, if we manage to make some clever signings in January (if we do sign anyone) it could really improve us and we could possibly see more consistency from the lads.
 

dev1l

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Tend to agree, and who knows, if we manage to make some clever signings in January (if we do sign anyone) it could really improve us and we could possibly see more consistency from the lads.
...if the club backs Ole in the transfer market.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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...if the club backs Ole in the transfer market.
By the sounds of it, he's not expecting much. He's spoken about a a couple of loans, but not really expecting anything big. That said, I'd rather us wait and get the players we want, rather than getting our 3rd/4th choice in January.
 

dev1l

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By the sounds of it, he's not expecting much. He's spoken about a a couple of loans, but not really expecting anything big. That said, I'd rather us wait and get the players we want, rather than getting our 3rd/4th choice in January.
January is a difficult time to do business. Having specific targets is even more difficult but not impossible
 

Kurton

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Thats such a precious view.

United Fans nowadays seem to have this attitude that we should always be winning the league. That’s never been the case for any team in England and I doubt it ever will be.

We need a plan. We need new players, youth players to step up.

A plan to let Ole see out the season, with a remit, is smart, if we are planning for June and all the years beyond it. He’s not dismantling the club. He’s not damaging relationships. He’s not the man for the job, but we need to stop tearing up the script and thinking a bit of money and a new manager is going to see us on top again. It’s not.
Not sure where in the post you replied to was it mentioned that Utd should be winning the league every time. It just mentions there should be some accountability in the way we perform on the pitch. Our performances has been atrocious, in some games we did not even have a shot on target in an entire half even against average teams. How is expecting better just shots on target in games being precious? Its fans like you that just suppress any rational expectation.