Why is Scottish football so bad?

[MegadrivePerson]

The major difference in finances is the obvious reason. Twenty-seven years ago, Rangers were able to beat off some big English clubs and paid £4.3 million for Gazza. For comparison Newcastle paid £6 million for Les Ferdinand and Liverpool paid £8.5 million for Stan Collymore in the same summer, so at this time Rangers were able to compete with English clubs for top players.

Step forward to 2022 though and the SPL transfer record is still the £12 million that Rangers paid for Tore Andre Flo in the year 2000!

The second highest fee is Edouard for £9 million, and then there's a mixture of players around the 6 to 7 million mark.

The finances of Scottish football simply don't allow them to compete with English clubs anymore.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Definitely. As seen with Patterson to us, Bassey to Ajax (but PL interest), Aribo to Southampton etc. Aribo and Bassey were fantastic and very hard to replace for Rangers.

They haven't replaced them at all and losing Goldson meant we lost our best fit centre back as well. Soon as the 3rd went in they should have brought another midfielder on and shut up shop last night, never mind the goals they were getting battered all over the pitch second half.

As for the overall picture, lack of funding and everything else already discussed by others in the thread is a big part of the problem. Teams in the division are a lot more competitive this year in general but that needs to be happening a lot more to try and bring the standard up. And more of our players need to try their hand abroad. It's starting to go that way (Hickey, Patterson amongst others) so hopefully more young players take the plunge and at least try to improve the standard of the national team.

 

[Gio]

Rangers just got 7 put past them with ease against a team that is completely shot to bits right now and every EPL team lick their lips at playing. They had a guy come on and score a hat trick in 6 minutes against them. The fastest ever. And that’s with Liverpool being heavily depleted with injuries.

Bare in mind this is the best that Scotland has to offer.

Whereas we lost to the best team in the world at the moment.

You couldn’t have chose a worse comparison.

But come on, that's missing a lot of understanding of Rangers' position. Rangers were the better team in the first half and created more chances. Liverpool improved in the second half, Rangers lost their defensive leader and had to bring on an 18-year-old rookie, then lost our best CM on the night and had to bring on a 37-year-old whose legs are gone. Meanwhile, Liverpool brought on Salah, Robertson, Jota and Thiago. Despite the 7-goal pumping, Liverpool's expected goals for the whole game was 2.2 - I don't think I've ever seen such a big difference (for example City had 3.3 xg when putting 6 past United recently). Again it probably reflected the fact, we rely on a 40-year-old goalkeeper. The scoreline hardly reflected the game.

 

[TheReligion]

I used it to show that if those score lines can happen to bigger, richer teams. They can certainly happen to smaller teams like Rangers. And do all the time.

That’s what I’m arguing the whole time, I dont know why you think that adds nothing to my point of view.

Anyway, one thing I’m sure we agree on is that Rangers and Scottish football is generally quite shit. I just don’t think there should be an expectation for them to be better than teams from other small nations.

Again I don’t follow. No one was saying score lines like that can’t happen in world football.

You seem to disagree that I said it was damaging for Scottish football for one of their best teams, and Champions not so long so long ago, to ship 7 goals at home to a very out of sorts Liverpool side. You then brought up United losing by 3 goals away to City and the 1-6 derby result in 2011.

Both Celtic and Rangers aren’t competitive in the champions league. That’s been shown this season. That’s damaging for Scottish football.

 

[Dan_F]

Again I don’t follow. No one was saying score lines like that can’t happen in world football.

You seem to disagree that I said it was damaging for Scottish football for one of their best teams, and Champions not so long so long ago, to ship 7 goals at home to a very out of sorts Liverpool side. You then brought up United losing by 3 goals away to City and the 1-6 derby result in 2011.

Both Celtic and Rangers aren’t competitive in the champions league. That’s been shown this season. That’s damaging for Scottish football.

They haven’t been competitive in the Champions League for twenty years or more. It’s not really embarrassing or damaging for Scottish football in particular, because it’s the kind of result that happens to teams from nations with their level coefficient.

Was it damaging for Belgian football when Genk lost 7-0 to Valencia or to Switzerland when Basel lose 7-0 to Munich? Not particularly.

The damage is more to European football in general rather than to a specific league. It causes massive problems in those smaller leagues. So many leagues in Europe have the same 2 teams - sometimes one - dominating every season, purely because they can make it into the CL group stages every few years and blow other teams out the water financially.

 

[rimaldo]

the main problem with scottish football is it got too lazy, relying on handouts from westminster and the tax paying englishman. the english clubs had to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps in the 80s and 90s, whilst the scottish clubs were busy eating smoked salmon and drinking whiskey and thinking the good times would never end. whilst the likes of united were busy focusing on the class of 92, rangers and celtic were laying in bed, waking up mid morning to grab a starbucks and some avocado on toast.

 

[poleglass red]

They haven’t been competitive in the Champions League for twenty years or more. It’s not really embarrassing or damaging for Scottish football in particular, because it’s the kind of result that happens to teams from nations with their level coefficient.

Was it damaging for Belgian football when Genk lost 7-0 to Valencia or to Switzerland when Basel lose 7-0 to Munich? Not particularly.

The damage is more to European football in general rather than to a specific league. It causes massive problems in those smaller leagues. So many leagues in Europe have the same 2 teams - sometimes one - dominating every season, purely because they can make it into the CL group stages every few years and blow other teams out the water financially.

exactly, Ajax who spent a decent chunk of change in the summer, just conceded 10 goals to Napoli over 2 legs, that's more than Rangers conceded to Liverpool over 2 legs.

 

[Stacks]

Fairly obvious - distinct lack of resources means poorer players, poorer teams and a poorer league. Rangers/Celtic star player would absolutely jump at the chance to join any team in the relegation zone of the PL - kind of says it all really.

Ok but in the past they actually produced some top players. some of the worlds best that were courted by huge sides. now they are not. Money disparity doesn't explain why their quality has dropped

 

[Lay]

It’s more damning when Motherwell went out of the conference league to Sligo Rovers. The rest of Scotland have been nothing but a disaster for years now.

 

[SambaBoy]

Simply the money.

In the early 2000s, if you had put them two in the PL, they would have competed quite well. Not for the title, but within the top four most likely. They were able to compete financially with everyone in the PL apart from United/Arsenal. It then started sliding and with the influx of foreign investment, they're not in the same league financially now.

Celtic/Rangers nowadays are competing against the top Championship teams for players. The financial package is worth more in the Championship with only the prestige of playing in CL probably being the deciding factor if people choose one of the big two.

The league is terrible in terms of competition, and the whole split in the middle of the season doesn't help. The likes of Hearts/Hibernian/Motherwell/Aberdeen need to become stronger to raise the overall level, but with poor revenue, what can they do without an investor. No-one is really going to invest in Scottish Football. There was the chap at Hearts who did it for a few years and got them up to 3rd and then decided it was too hard to challenge with Rangers/Celtic because of the money they generate and the european income.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

It's interesting that the Edinburgh clubs have historically been so far behind the big two from Glasgow. is there a big difference in football culture between the two cities?

 

[TheReligion]

Hearts hit for 5 by Fiorentina

Rangers for 7 yesterday

Of course it’s embarrassing for Scottish football

 

[TheReligion]

Another example of the Scottish game

Celtic 6-1 v Hibs

Hibs are currently 3rd in the league

 

[Samid]

6 losses, -20 GD. That's brutal.

 

[Baxter]

Another example of the Scottish game

Celtic 6-1 v Hibs

Hibs are currently 3rd in the league

And the financial gulf between those teams is far beyond City and Forest

 

[Botim]

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[The Purley King]

Don’t half the teams play on a plastic pitch?
That is not proper football, once you go down that road there is no return.

 

[77]

Deep fried food

 

[Lay]

Woeful campaign for rangers. The worse of all time I believe. Celtic are out too but they played a whole lot better than their results show.

 

[poleglass red]

Another example of the Scottish game

Celtic 6-1 v Hibs

Hibs are currently 3rd in the league

we win our game in hand and we go level with Spurs in 3rd place, City were beating us 6-1 with 6 mins to go recently, and City aren't even top of the PL yet.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Rise of the Premier League contributed a lot to Scottish Football getting worse.

20 years ago, Celtic and Rangers were top half PL table quality, but when that PL money really started to roll in around about 2007 then all of a sudden everyone wants to go to the newly promoted PL team who would for sure be cannon fodder most weeks and go straight back down over an easy couple of medals playing for Rangers and Celtic, because £$£$£$

If Celtic really wanted a good player, they’d make a bid then the fecking Dog and Duck who just came up to the PL, would come in with a bid made up from TV money alone that would blow them out the water, and that said player would be parading the Dog and Duck shirt.

 

[TheReligion]

we win our game in hand and we go level with Spurs in 3rd place, City were beating us 6-1 with 6 mins to go recently, and City aren't even top of the PL yet.

They won 6-3

 

[DWelbz19]

Deep fried food

Don't forget the Irn Bru

 

[Desert Eagle]

Rise of the Premier League contributed a lot to Scottish Football getting worse.

20 years ago, Celtic and Rangers were top half PL table quality, but when that PL money really started to roll in around about 2007 then all of a sudden everyone wants to go to the newly promoted PL team who would for sure be cannon fodder most weeks and go straight back down over an easy couple of medals playing for Rangers and Celtic, because £$£$£$

If Celtic really wanted a good player, they’d make a bid then the fecking Dog and Duck who just came up to the PL, would come in with a bid made up from TV money alone that would blow them out the water, and that said player would be parading the Dog and Duck shirt.

Yeah the inability to attract lower end talent has handicapped their league. Celtic and Rangers probably have less pull than Fulham.

 

[redshaw]

It's sad to see them not producing top players.

When you look at Croatia, a country of ~4 million with not much money and what they've done I don't think some of the excuses work for Scotland and the top players they produced before.

I remember being shocked in how they chopped the leagues down when I was a lad and it's never been the same since. Instead of concentrating it seemed to demean it all and quicken the demise.

 

[poleglass red]

They won 6-3

top teams sticking 6 past the also rans isn't unique to Scotland.

 

[Gio]

Rangers shot themselves in the foot. No investment in the first team either over the summer or after qualifying for the Champions League. 8 central midfielders in the squad who cost us a combined £50k (yes that's thousand, not million). Failure to reinvest properly at centre-half or at goalkeeper, meaning last night we played an 18-year-old and a central midfielder in the heart of defence, in front of a 40-year-old goalkeeper who has the worst expected goals-to-saves ratio in the competition. Which means that even when you have a better xg than the opposition like last night, we still lose with such a shoogly core. Massive drop-off in performance compared to recent years in Europe, particularly with Leipzig, Dortmund and Frankfurt all looking comfortable for the last 16.

 

[Chief123]

It’s a really strange one.

I would say the Scottish people are just as passionate and enthusiastic about football as the English. Yet there is such a contrast between the two countries in terms of football quality. One is the most competitive and watched league in the world and the other is one of the poorest quality in Europe (without being too harsh).

It is weird as they border each other as footballing nations. It may be way too simplistic but all I can imagine is there isn’t as much desire from players to want to go there because of the climate? Similar to how players are reluctant to go to north east England due to the weather. I’m not saying england has the best weather but it must play a part.

It’s a butterfly effect kind of thing. Top players are attracted to a country, interest grows, money income increases, quality of league increases etc.

 

[poleglass red]

It’s a really strange one.

I would say the Scottish people are just as passionate and enthusiastic about football as the English. Yet there is such a contrast between the two countries in terms of football quality. One is the most competitive and watched league in the world and the other is one of the poorest quality in Europe (without being too harsh).

It is weird as they border each other as footballing nations. It may be way too simplistic but all I can imagine is there isn’t as much desire from players to want to go there because of the climate? Similar to how players are reluctant to go to north east England due to the weather. I’m not saying england has the best weather but it must play a part.

It’s a butterfly effect kind of thing. Top players are attracted to a country, interest grows, money income increases, quality of league increases etc.

nah, overlooking it too much. It's all about money. Back when Rangers has money they had no problem attracting top quality players, neither will Newcastle in coming seasons.

 

[Sandikan]

The major difference in finances is the obvious reason. Twenty-seven years ago, Rangers were able to beat off some big English clubs and paid £4.3 million for Gazza. For comparison Newcastle paid £6 million for Les Ferdinand and Liverpool paid £8.5 million for Stan Collymore in the same summer, so at this time Rangers were able to compete with English clubs for top players.

Step forward to 2022 though and the SPL transfer record is still the £12 million that Rangers paid for Tore Andre Flo in the year 2000!

The second highest fee is Edouard for £9 million, and then there's a mixture of players around the 6 to 7 million mark.

The finances of Scottish football simply don't allow them to compete with English clubs anymore.

I'm not sure this was true. Who else was in for him?
Your examples are significantly higher amounts when you look at the percentages, around 50% and 100% higher!

But I take your point that they wouldn't even be able to manage 10% of our top fees now.

 

[Gio]

It’s a really strange one.

I would say the Scottish people are just as passionate and enthusiastic about football as the English. Yet there is such a contrast between the two countries in terms of football quality. One is the most competitive and watched league in the world and the other is one of the poorest quality in Europe (without being too harsh).

It is weird as they border each other as footballing nations. It may be way too simplistic but all I can imagine is there isn’t as much desire from players to want to go there because of the climate? Similar to how players are reluctant to go to north east England due to the weather. I’m not saying england has the best weather but it must play a part.

It’s a butterfly effect kind of thing. Top players are attracted to a country, interest grows, money income increases, quality of league increases etc.

Correct on the support and enthusiasm - Scottish football is the best supported in Europe per head of population.

It's simply about money. When Rangers had more money than most English clubs, we bought the English captain Terry Butcher, the best English goalkeeper Chris Woods, a couple of the best midfielders in Ray Wilkins and Trevor Stevens, etc. In the late 1990s and early 2000s there were lots of foreigners in the Scottish game - plenty from Serie A, Ligue Un, and South America - but the income to the Scottish game levelled off, while the English league's income exploded and other big leagues followed behind. I imagine the income to the Scottish game hasn't changed much over the last 20 years, whereas others have increased exponentially.

 

[Gio]

I'm not sure this was true. Who else was in for him?
Your examples are significantly higher amounts when you look at the percentages, around 50% and 100% higher!

But I take your point that they wouldn't even be able to manage 10% of our top fees now.

Chelsea were in for Gascoigne as well.

A couple of years later Rangers ousted United for Amoruso.

More of an even playing field at the time and the lure of almost guaranteed CL football was a big draw.

 

[TheReligion]

top teams sticking 6 past the also rans isn't unique to Scotland.

Who said it was?

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Chelsea were in for Gascoigne as well.

A couple of years later Rangers ousted United for Amoruso.

More of an even playing field at the time and the lure of almost guaranteed CL football was a big draw.

Yeh I remember that, Gullit and Gazza were wanted. Then 2 yrs later we beat you guys to Vialli.
That was a very good Gers team mid to late 90s. Always rated Laudrup and then when he turned down Utd to come to us I was happy as a pig in shit, and it went pete tong quick haha

 

[TheReligion]

Another embarrassing result.

Real 5-1 Celtic

Both Celtic and Rangers together have a -31 goal difference..

 

[Shane88]

Another embarrassing result.

Real 5-1 Celtic

Both Celtic and Rangers together have a -31 goal difference..

More embarrassing is the celebration for that consolation. What the feck was that about?

 

[TheReligion]

More embarrassing is the celebration for that consolation. What the feck was that about?

Oh I didn’t see it? What did they do?

 

[Shane88]

Oh I didn’t see it? What did they do?

Jota scored a free kick to make it 5-1 with a few minutes left and he ran off to celebrate like it was a big goal. You're being dicked 5-0, what is there to laugh and smile about?

 

[MayosNoun]

More embarrassing is the celebration for that consolation. What the feck was that about?

Jota clearly doesn’t care about Celtic. He was delighted to score at the Bernabau and did not care in the slightest his team were 5-1 down.

 

[GoonerBear]

This is a multi layer thing, with several different answers that feed into each other.
If the question is why aren't we producing elite players, several reasons contribute to that. Poor weather, poor facilities, poor coaching, poor kids setups, poor diet, more modern distractions, a big youth drinking culture all help contribute to this.

As for the league itself, as others have said, the big problem is the lack of money, and others have pointed this out in great detail. You might think being next to the richest league in the world we would try to take advantage of, but instead it holds us back big time. Those that run the league and the SFA arent forward thinking enough, and there's too much bad feeling and in fighting to get everyone on the same page to drive the game forward.

Also now not only are English teams buying some of our best talent after they've made the breakthrough to the first team, they are also taking some of the best talent from the academies, such as Billy Gilmour at Rangers and Ben Doak at Celtic.

As for Rangers performance in the Champions League itself, it wasn't good enough, but this is also a Rangers team that has lost its way this season under Gio. The team, squad has went backwards and the team / squad building in the summer has set the team back rather than improved the team. Rangers competed well with the likes of Benfica, Dortmund, Leipzig, Frankfurt, PSV in the past season or 2, nearly all teams in the Champions League this season, this current team is a poor incarnation.