What a weird post
Will Bruno achieve legend status at utd?
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He will not achieve legend status. First, because he's not good enough. Second, because he played for us during a stretch when we were terrible, and third, he would never be considered a legend in a club where CR7 isn't. The latter point has been argued extensively in other threads so no need to derail this one.
Bruno will have cult hero status with some and that's still pretty decent. You can't have a United legend who never won the league, even before you debate ability, antics etc.
You've compiled a list for a supposedly highly-skilled attacking midfielder where half of the attributes have so much overlap they're often used interchangeably and the other half has asterisks/caveats.
You were polite enough to answer my questions and express your opinions in a cordial manner, so I’ll just agree to disagree on the “highly-skilled” and “legend” stuff.
I think he’s a good player - who will be remembered fondly by many, but ultimately just a good player.
Yup he’s had some good performances against big teams, I mean he’d have to he’s probably played in over 30 since being here. Last season at home to City, Barcelona and Arsenal were good games from him.
The thing is these don’t happen enough and while a good game is nice, the really top players can produce great moments and games much more consistently. I also don’t think he’s ever not been terrible away from home in big matches.
Everything Neville said here is the opposite of what Bruno is
There is so much wrong with this post!
Poster putting himself in a position where he states Bruno has SO MANY CRITICS, there is an AGENDA against him and he JUST ISN'T AS GOOD AS YOU THINK HE IS.
@El Jefe How many fans, or what percentage of utd's fanbase are you speaking for?
That's fair enough.
I also don't think that Bruno will be widely considered a legend unless he wins a big trophy for us. Time is not on his side, but if Robson could win his first at age 36 then maybe there's still time. That is at least one thing we all can hope for!
Bruno has all credentials? Would really like to know why you think so.
Here are my arguments why he would never be United legend:
- He won nothing.
- Wasteful with questionable decision making in key situations.
- Not suited to lead team aiming to play dominant, possession based game and win trophies.
- Lot of running but average in defending or pressing.
- Whinny and obnoxious.
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You said:
But as you've just acknowledged, they have.
We could certainly add a few more too, but it would probably get very 'what have the Roman's ever done for us...' with you.
He hasn't accomplished anywhere near enough to even think about being labelled a legend, but there's definitely a middle ground between that and your opinion, which seems like it's bordering hatred.
The top players who produce great moments in big matches usually play in top teams themselves. We haven't been a patch on City or Liverpool in recent years, so to expect consistent, game-winning performances from any of our players against the likes of that is a very tall order. We've managed to beat them on occasion during that time, and yes, Bruno has been a part of that.
It takes a monumental player like Robson to drag a mediocre team across the line regularly. I don't think anyone is putting Bruno besides Robbo.
Fictional assists aside, Beckham didn’t have a good game in the CL final. Bayern kicked our arses for almost the entirety of that match. One of the most one sided games we played in that whole campaign, primarily because our rejigged central midfield was nowhere near good enough on the night. Is that being brought up as the sort of performance Bruno should be aspiring to produce?
Sorry if I’m a little aggressive today but you’ve forced me into the loft, as the internet doesn’t really cover very well the CL final of 99.
However it’s really quite funny that the guy who claims Beckham didn’t have a good game against Bayern, primarily (ie Beckham was to blame) because of the midfield… went into meltdown in Bruno’s performance thread after the 7-0 defeat to Liverpool making 58 (5-8) (FIFTY EIGHT) posts in two days defending Bruno’s performance in that game. One of your posts being this….
‘It was a rhetorical question. I assumed you would understand the point I was making. We've been dominated a lot in big games in recent years. Hence it's been very hard for any player’
So if you’re Bruno and play like actual shite in a 7-0 defeat at Anfield then according to 58Posts Mahone you can’t be blamed…‘it’s so very hard’ (apparently so when it comes to Bruno).
Whereas when David Beckham plays out of position in a CL Final WIN, gives us a foothold in the game for 90 mins despite the rejigged midfield, dominating possession, more attempts at and on goal, A higher XG (come on we know you have a boner for this when it comes to certain players) more corners, plays a huge role in us winning the corner for 1-1 and has a huge role in both goals (if not assists) Our best player and for me the best player on the pitch all things considered in that game, leading to us winning the premier league, the fa cup, the European cup…EVERYTHING OUR HEARTS DESIRED. It gets labelled by @58Posts as laughable that Bruno should aspire to this? Ok.
Maybe Becks should have aspired to Bruno’s decent at best performance v Luton at Old Trafford, huge game, big moments 1-0 win v the mighty Hatters, described by @58Posts here:-
“I don’t think it was an excellent performance but it was definitely a good performance. Generally used the ball well and put some excellent crosses into the box. Plus all the usual workrate and defensive effort.
Particularly enjoyed a sliding tackle to win the ball back immediately after Garnacho had broken down an attack with a poor decision. The crowd enjoyed that moment too and it kicked off a few minutes where the stadium got noisy, we pinned them back and eventually won the corner from which we scored. He’s a long way short of the likes of Keane and Robson as a captain but that was a proper captain’s moment.”
Inspirational stuff!
Anyway I like to back up anything I say, I’ll always justify a point I make where necessary unlike 58Posts. So I’ve been in the attic and dug out my newspapers from 27th May 1999…
And just for good measure here is some of the footage of both player’s performances
Beckham’s laughably poor performance in the Nou Camp.
Bruno’s harsh to judge him in the opinion of @58Posts Mahone v Liverpool 7-0 (SEVEN NIL)
The Last clip…imagine Bryan Robson or Becks doing that
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My opinion is that he was sensational when he first came…you can go back to his performances threads to see, funnily there’s a few here that the fanboys don’t like, that were actually massive fans when he first came in.
My opinion since is that he’s been largely poor and is a big part of the reason we struggle to dominate games. When people throw out random sentences with no justification I’ll ask for it to be backed up.
Ok so let’s say Bruno played well to reasonably well in 3 big ish games. That’s just downright piss poor at this stage of his United career.
There's a lot more wrong with the premise of this thread.
Bruno clearly has an abundance of critics, even more so within United's fanbase than outside - which is never a good sign. Most United pundits are highly critical while non-United are more sympathetic. Neville and Keane dont even hide their dislike of him any more.
Bottom line is that Bruno isn't as good as you and a minority of hero worshipers think he is and that's reflected in the stands, on television and online.
Sensational post.
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Thank you….Opinions are fine but should be backed up in my opinion.
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Thank you….Opinions are fine but should be backed up in my opinion.
No. He is a very good player but not a legend.
I’ve seen this defence a few times and I’m not sure I agree. In Bruno’s time here our league positions have been 4th, 2nd, 6th and 3rd. We’ve also been good enough to get to domestic and EL semifinals and finals. No one is asking for him to produce top moments as often as those in top teams but there have been players in similar positions as Bruno that have produced a lot more top performances in big games
Son, Kane, Aubameyang, Sanchez, Rashford, Coutinho, Vardy and Mahrez are players who have been in teams in a similar position to what Bruno has been in and managed to still stand out in a number of big games. You even have players like Grealish and Zaha that were in even more weakened positions but still had their moments.
Excluding Zaha, that is the level of player that some believe Bruno belongs in so he needs to be held to that same standard. It’s also not just the fact he doesn’t have his memorable moment, the bigger issue is how often he performs poorly in them and he does this more than any other top player in my opinion.
You may be right, or it may be just the fact that one of our players playing poorly affects us more or is more prominent in our minds. I couldn't say for sure either way.
Never thought about it but Sanchez at Arsenal is actually a great comparison for Bruno in terms of pedigree at their respective clubs.
You're doing the same as @El Jefe: You have nothing whatsoever to back up your statements. On one of Gary Neville's recent programs where, the panel including Keane went through the utd team, were asked which players they would ditch, give a final chance, or keep. Without any hesitation Bruno was a "keep" from all four pundits without a single negative comment. After the Wigan game Keane voiced his opinion saying Bruno acted smart getting the penalty. So where's the dislike you're talking about!?
In answer to your "minority" who think he's good. Bruno is currently rated 3rd best Portuguese player after Dias and Silva according to FIFA.
Good post, well done!Sorry if I’m a little aggressive today but you’ve forced me into the loft, as the internet doesn’t really cover very well the CL final of 99.
However it’s really quite funny that the guy who claims Beckham didn’t have a good game against Bayern, primarily (ie Beckham was to blame) because of the midfield… went into meltdown in Bruno’s performance thread after the 7-0 defeat to Liverpool making 58 (5-8) (FIFTY EIGHT) posts in two days defending Bruno’s performance in that game. One of your posts being this….
‘It was a rhetorical question. I assumed you would understand the point I was making. We've been dominated a lot in big games in recent years. Hence it's been very hard for any player’
So if you’re Bruno and play like actual shite in a 7-0 defeat at Anfield then according to 58Posts Mahone you can’t be blamed…‘it’s so very hard’ (apparently so when it comes to Bruno).
Whereas when David Beckham plays out of position in a CL Final WIN, gives us a foothold in the game for 90 mins despite the rejigged midfield, dominating possession, more attempts at and on goal, A higher XG (come on we know you have a boner for this when it comes to certain players) more corners, plays a huge role in us winning the corner for 1-1 and has a huge role in both goals (if not assists) Our best player and for me the best player on the pitch all things considered in that game, leading to us winning the premier league, the fa cup, the European cup…EVERYTHING OUR HEARTS DESIRED. It gets labelled by @58Posts as laughable that Bruno should aspire to this? Ok.
Maybe Becks should have aspired to Bruno’s decent at best performance v Luton at Old Trafford, huge game, big moments 1-0 win v the mighty Hatters, described by @58Posts here:-
“I don’t think it was an excellent performance but it was definitely a good performance. Generally used the ball well and put some excellent crosses into the box. Plus all the usual workrate and defensive effort.
Particularly enjoyed a sliding tackle to win the ball back immediately after Garnacho had broken down an attack with a poor decision. The crowd enjoyed that moment too and it kicked off a few minutes where the stadium got noisy, we pinned them back and eventually won the corner from which we scored. He’s a long way short of the likes of Keane and Robson as a captain but that was a proper captain’s moment.”
Inspirational stuff!
Anyway I like to back up anything I say, I’ll always justify a point I make where necessary unlike 58Posts. So I’ve been in the attic and dug out my newspapers from 27th May 1999…
And just for good measure here is some of the footage of both player’s performances
Beckham’s laughably poor performance in the Nou Camp.
Bruno’s harsh to judge him in the opinion of @58Posts Mahone v Liverpool 7-0 (SEVEN NIL)
The Last clip…imagine Bryan Robson or Becks doing that
That's not the point; he's had several good-to-very good seasons, an absolutely woeful one (the Rangnick season) and is on course to have a pretty underwhelming one this year. It's damning with faint praise to say he's been our best performer since arriving given the shit show this team has consistently been over the last 10 years.
I'm not sure, unfortunately his association with the club comes at a very bad time. Full of inept performances and dislikeable teams, which is a bit unfair on him because ultimately he is one of the few that has probably held up his end of the bargain. If everybody produced a similar level over his time we'd not be in quite this mess, I'm fairly confident about that regardless of whatever issues people have with some areas of his game. Fundamentally he has performed within his role as an attacking player that is supposed to create and score goals.
But it just doesn't quite stretch to legend status for me. I think he'd either need to be absurdly, ridiculously good, to the extent that he is always consistent and dragging the team through, or he'd need to become part of a more successful side. If either of those things happened he could do it, but I think his game is a little inconsistent, but mainly the problem is the team is poor.
But it just doesn't quite stretch to legend status for me. I think he'd either need to be absurdly, ridiculously good, to the extent that he is always consistent and dragging the team through, or he'd need to become part of a more successful side. If either of those things happened he could do it, but I think his game is a little inconsistent, but mainly the problem is the team is poor.
He's nowhere near the discussion for best attacking midfielders in the world. Not even top 5.
I hope he does because it would mean he captains us to league and champions league trophies. Can't see it happening though.
Cult status maybe. Legendary status? He's nowhere near right now
Cult status maybe. Legendary status? He's nowhere near right now
@ bold
ok that's the level we're on here is it.You have nothing to back up why Bruno has the credentials to be considered a legend, when he quite clearly has none of them. He signed at a horrible moment and had an excellent 18 months in terms of productivity, sure. But longer term he's regressed, he holds our play back and is partly why we'll never evolve into a side that can play good football beyond counter attacks.
And yeh they said they would keep Bruno. They also all said they'd keep McTominay and he's utterly useless. They both want him stripped of the captaincy which is hardly something anyone would ever say about a club legend, captain or not.
Yeah but all you do is
whenever C. Ronaldo is mentioned so what do you know?Captain Lionheart against Pool this season.....oh wait.
Bruno Fernandes is the equivalent of being handed a shite with a pound coin lodged in the top.
Go away, newb.Yeah but all you do is
That’s a great example of the crazy bias applied to assessing his performances. You think he’s been pretty underwhelming in a season where he so far has 6 goals and 5 assists, playing as an attacking midfielder for a team that’s one of the lowest scoring in the league. He’s our most potent attacker, bar none. And those figures actually stack up quite well vs players in the same position at teams that have been miles more productive than us. Where all of their attacking players have been scoring and creating goals, week in, week out. Compare and contrast with the shambles ahead of Bruno this season, as well as the paper thin midfield behind him.
And we all know he also puts a huge shift in, every single game he plays. He’s made 40 tackles this season. Two less than Declan Rice and more than any other United player. Dalot is second with 38. No other team mate has made more than 30.
If the players in other positions in his team had managed similar outputs in their roles then our season would be a hell of a lot better than it has been and Bruno’s performances might actually get the praise they deserve. They’ve certainly been a lot better than “pretty underwhelming”.
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He does, but he's not very good at it, is he? I remember for example the Gala game when he gave away two free kicks that lead to goals for Gala.
I respect him for trying and giving everything but to reach a legend status he has to get reduce the amount of such situations where he causes as many problems as he solves. He might be unlucky having to play in the current team, but that's life. If he sees that true and captains United on the way back to the top than he has a shout at being a legend, not as long as things stay as they are.
I'm not arguing he should be a legend. I don't think he should be, for all sorts of reasons, only some of which are within his control. I also don't think he's a great choice as captain. That's been a pood decision, for him and the team. Although the fact there are no better candidates shows what a total shit show of a squad of players Bruno is trying to perform in.
The point I was making is that he's been one our better players this season and his performances are being persistently underrated by people who made their mind up about him a long time ago and want to blame him for our terrible league campaign, which is actually down to problems that have notihng to do with Bruno.
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2 players ranked above him who are regulars in arguably the best club side in the world is the level. Not high enough for you then?@ bold
You have nothing to back up why Bruno has the credentials to be considered a legend, when he quite clearly has none of them. He signed at a horrible moment and had an excellent 18 months in terms of productivity, sure. But longer term he's regressed, he holds our play back and is partly why we'll never evolve into a side that can play good football beyond counter attacks.
And yeh they said they would keep Bruno. They also all said they'd keep McTominay and he's utterly useless. They both want him stripped of the captaincy which is hardly something anyone would ever say about a club legend, captain or not.
They all answered "last straw" on McTominay which is a totally different response than a definate keep from all four pundits.
Also you said Neville and Keane dislike Bruno which I question strongly and just don't believe.
I'd say you must be in Cuckoo land
Oh shit, best start building his statue now then.
Ah @58Posts spinning again….
So let’s debunk some of this with context.
1.He’s not or most potent attacker, bar non…He’s our penalty taker.
G+A Non pen (per 90)
Casemiro .47
Martial .43
McT .40
Garnacho .39
Rashford .37
Hojlund .33
Bruno .30
2.He’s made more tackles for the simple reason that he’s played most minutes. The majority of our other players have been out for extended periods this season. Antony makes more tackles per 90, Mainoo does an he’s extremely adept at being in the right place.
Tackles (per 90)
1.Case 2.45
2.Amrabat 2.41
3.Antony 2.35
4.AWB 25 2.30
5.Mainoo 2.16
6.Bruno 2.03
Let’s then consider ‘if others had managed similar outputs…
Bruno has a tragic pass completion rate of 71% 10% or more worse than
Mount
Maguire
Casemiro
McT
AWB
Amrabat
Evans
Mainoo
Varane
Lindelof
Also worse than
Antony
Eriksen
Rashford
Garnacho
Shaw
Martial
Dalot
Hojlund
Then look at his pass selection, total giveaways (which his so lucky to play with him teammates have to respond to) and wonder…if you were giving the ball away THAT many times doing THE SAME FECKING THING…would you not learn? The definition of insanity.
Medium Passes completion 75.4% 505 attempted/127 giveaways.
Long Passes completion 49% 309 attempted/156 giveaways.
*long/medium passes given away in total 283
Then the comparison seems to be with Odegaard for whatever reason and stats used to put a positive spin towards Bruno.
Here’s how Odegaard fares in pass completion:-
Overall 85.1% (14.1% higher)
Medium Passes completion 88% (8.6% higher) 399 attempted (106 fewer)/48 giveaways (79 fewer)
Long Passes completion 62.2% (13% higher) att 90 attempted (219 fewer) 34 giveaways (122 fewer)
*long/medium passes given away in total 82 ( fewer than Bruno)
Attempted medium passes per 90
Bruno 19.42
Odegaard 14.56
Attempted long passes per 90
Bruno 11.88
Odegaard 3.26
Giveaways from M/L passes per 90
Bruno 10.88 (283 total)
Odegaard 3.86 (89 total)
So you begin to see the utter madness that Bruno brings and why those who watch the game to form an opinion rather than using specific stats know that Bruno has had a terrible season. High risk and very little reward.
Using a bunch of other handpicked stats to tell this story hardly helps to prove this point.
Bruno has been poor in a very poor team but that's not because he's a poor player.
Did you write that in reply to the post in quoted ? Hardly helps if you didn’t.
I’d say it’s more accurate to use per 90 stats, and stats that are the same for all players (non pens) than ones that favour a single player who has played more and takes pens.
Also the passing stats show the negative impact Bruno has overall, rather than focusing on XA randomness. If you think a player with less than 50% completion should continue making hundreds (literally) of the same passes….over and over then fine. I disagree.
Just because you like Bruno doesn’t make it right.
Saying Bruno is having an underwhelming season is a biased opinion now? My god, how low have the standards dropped in this fanbase?
Just because the majority of our players have been abysimal, doesn't suddenly mean that being slighly better than shyte is suddenly good. He's scored some important goals (Fulham) but overall he's been mediocre for the most part. The majority of the team has been that or worse and that's exactly why we're in the position that we find ourselves in right now.
I will also add this, Bruno looked world class in his first year with us. He was genuinely unplayable and raised our standards, but overall after 2020 his contributions are largely overrated
Just because the majority of our players have been abysimal, doesn't suddenly mean that being slighly better than shyte is suddenly good. He's scored some important goals (Fulham) but overall he's been mediocre for the most part. The majority of the team has been that or worse and that's exactly why we're in the position that we find ourselves in right now.
I will also add this, Bruno looked world class in his first year with us. He was genuinely unplayable and raised our standards, but overall after 2020 his contributions are largely overrated
So basically you think Bruno has been good this year? I agree he's had some moments and his stats hold up well, but there have been more a few below-average performances.