Because football is less about the individual which is why he can't really be judged negatively just because he plays here while the team is shite. Bebe has a league title. David May has 2 and was European champion. He's more a legend than Brian Robson if we're judging by trophies.
Will Bruno achieve legend status at utd?
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Because football is less about the individual which is why he can't really be judged negatively just because he plays here while the team is shite. Bebe has a league title. David May has 2 and was European champion. He's more a legend than Brian Robson if we're judging by trophies.
Cant be a legend without winning titles and I doubt we'll win anything meaningful in the next years so odds are against him.
Trophies is part of it, but it's not as extreme as that. De Gea's stock in the first 5-6 years post SAF was extremely high. He was player of the season virtually every other season, he was routinely pulling out insane saves. At the time, many would have put him as United's best ever GK or at least in the conversation. And it wasn't because he won a PL under SAF, it was his performances during the bad times. I think the tide against De Gea only really started changing in the past few years, and that was because his own performances started to decline. I think in a few years time people will look more favourably on De Gea, once his decline is a less recent memory. He's on par with Schmeichel and Van Der Sar in my opinion.
Shit Captain
moans
whinges
histrionics
goes missing when needed
Currently Utd’s best player ….which goes to show the level this club is at now.
moans
whinges
histrionics
goes missing when needed
Currently Utd’s best player ….which goes to show the level this club is at now.
That's the thing though - people seem to absolve Bruno of any responsibility when stating the team is shite, but then turn around and use "he's captain" as a bullet point for the pro legend argument. Bruno despite his numbers, has been at the center of many of our poor performances. The inconsistencies in his performances aren't something people are just imagining/making-up, nor are his disappearance acts against reputable opposition (I believe a poster has already catalogued how he fares in "big games" in this very same thread). Bruno doesn't just play here while the team is shite - our team is shite because players like Bruno have a really low floor.
I don't see him as a legend by the way. I just see him as a very good player for us. He's captain because he's our best player and the main cause of us playing well whenever we do. I doubt we'd be any better without him. I don't think he drags the team down in those games. He just can't outweigh the rest.
Bruno, a United legend? Surely OP is having a laugh. I wonder how old they are?
Deeply flawed player, who's output collapsed when we signed Ronaldo and never recovered. Petulant and sulky on the pitch, not remotely captain material.
To discuss him in the same terms as Robson or Keane is an absolute nonsense.
Deeply flawed player, who's output collapsed when we signed Ronaldo and never recovered. Petulant and sulky on the pitch, not remotely captain material.
To discuss him in the same terms as Robson or Keane is an absolute nonsense.
No. Unless he plays a key role in our resurgence/winning the biggest trophies.
Had he helped us win europa and more importantly stopped city winning the treble, then maybe. But now I would say a very good servant post SAF but couldn't be our modern day cantona.
He won't unfortunately and if the new management can't see he is also big part of the problem , then we can't truly say we are moving in the right direction and new management isn't as clueless as the last one .
Life is unfair.
This is a legitimate standpoint to me. Even if I don't agree
...he's our best player...
he might be, thing is this isn't really saying much at all
...main cause of us playing well whenever we do...
Wouldn't agree here, this year so far, I thought Bruno played relatively similar most of the time, I think, we play well when we have an early lead or something that boosts the confidence. Bruno is a player that contributes by moments, a pass that comes off or a shot. It has to be said that I consider this season as a season where we haven't really played well. Actually at all. There were a few performances I'd consider as professional and there were a few good phases but a game where I thought wow, that was really good, I can't really remember one.
...doubt we'd be any better without him...
I doubt that as well. But most people claim that we should replace him with a player who has some use as well, maybe with a more rounded skillset and, OBVIOUSLY, in connection with a bit of style change towards a more controlled setup, at least in phases of the game when we WANT to have control. It is a common strawmen around here, acting as if most critics of Bruno just want him out while keeping the team the same.
...don't think he drags the team down...
I wouldn't say it like that as well. He doesn't drag but there have been quite a few games where, when the pressure rises, he starts to lose his head and is doing the risky stuff even more than usually. Which isn't dragging the team down per se, it just puts the team in positions it isn't really comfortable with which, to me, increases chances of blunders and mistakes.
...he just can't outweigh the rest...
Well yeah... not going to get into that I guess ^^
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I generally agree with that sentiment, and going by this thread seems as though most don't think he's a United legend - harsh reality for him and those that think he is, but like you said - life isn't fair. Just harsh realities for Bruno.
How many players stand out in a 6 0 defeat for a good reason? And winning trophies is something the team does, not the individual. Again David May was a European Champion and Brian Robson wasn't so the former is a legend and the latter isn't by your logic.
If Bruno Fernandez was named Brian Ferdinand and Scott McTominay was named English Thomas, I bet you'd hold them in higher regard. You also don't like Southgate because 'Gareth' is a bit too Welsh for your liking. Admit it.
No.
I will disregard any legend of the club if he gets legend status.
The same usual suspects still not over Pogba being shown up by Bruno it seems 
From this squad I'd say only Garnacho, Mainoo (youth and talent) and maybe Rashford (if he finds last season form more frequently) have a chance to be a legend.
Varane and Casemiro might have been if they got here earlier.
But all of them need a major trophy to actually be considered. (PL or CL).
Varane and Casemiro might have been if they got here earlier.
But all of them need a major trophy to actually be considered. (PL or CL).
I agree with this as well. He definitely forces things sometimes and gives the ball away too much. He can also be petulant. I think I'm lenient on that because the rest just seem to accept it. At least he's visibly annoyed. The team is also so dysfunctional that I can hardly blame him for the lack of success during his time here. I just think he's done brilliantly to create as many chances as he has despite being in such a basketcase.
Nope
Has become a real whinger and he simply does not carry himself the way he should as a Captain.
Has become a real whinger and he simply does not carry himself the way he should as a Captain.
Are you taking the fecking piss?
no.....unless chasing referees remonstrating every call is what people look at as legend status these days
Without going into his individual merits, the current era juxtaposed against the club's history is such that no one playing in it has a chance of being considered a club legend.
The next United legend will be whoever plays a key role in the club's next title or CL win. I cannot see this happening during whatever time Bruno has left in his prime.
The next United legend will be whoever plays a key role in the club's next title or CL win. I cannot see this happening during whatever time Bruno has left in his prime.
Really?
What's the criteria these days? Someone who runs a lot, acts like a dick and sprays around the ball without any plan when the going gets tough?
Okay then, maybe. But only if we can asterisk it and call him "The shittiest legend, for the shittiest era".
What's the criteria these days? Someone who runs a lot, acts like a dick and sprays around the ball without any plan when the going gets tough?
Okay then, maybe. But only if we can asterisk it and call him "The shittiest legend, for the shittiest era".
given how hungry we are for a trophy, if he puts on a stellar performance in a winning season that itself will give him a legend status.
He is to me. Arrived when the club is in turnoil, tries his best with all his limitations and wears the crest to heart. Only decent player in the club for over 5-6 years now. Yes, you read it right.. "only". And the man annoys the crap out of the scousers, whats not to like?
For me unless he manages to help us win the premier league or some other big trophy he won't be. It will be similar to DDG where he will be viewed as a very good player for us, however won't be enough to raise him up with the legends as he doesn't have the trophies to match them.
He wasn't in the same bracket as the players regularly starting then. He wouldn't get a look in. Maybe as a fifth choice.
If he lost the moaning, he could become somewhat of a cult figure like Riquelme. A maverick that can produce moments of magic and is admired by the fans for it but, unfortunately for him, born 15-20 years too late. Demanding to be at the heart of everything in this age of system teams and requiring a group of workhorses in the midfield to allow him his free role at a time when technique and ball retention is paramount in the midfield battle. A super player for a team that possibly won't win anything of notice. Still, you could get to work on Monday and brag: "I was at the game on Saturday and i saw first hand that Bruno pass/goal/move".
I don't get why people get so worked up. You can believe that he's a great player and fun to watch when he finds a good vein of form and still be of the opinion that he is not the best thing since sliced bread. There have been players whose impact had been far greater than Bruno's at the highest level, players whose individual skills were much better and they were worshipped by the fans, yet their teams were better off without them in the end. It's a mix of "once in a lifetime" like individual skills and a cult of personality aura about them. I think Bruno falls short on both accounts and his impact has been overstated by a fanbase that's desperate for silver linings. A radio producer in my part of the world mentioned the other day that United have gone from a high water mark of 68 goals without him (Martial, Rashford and Lukaku up front) to one of 73 goals (Greenwood and Cavani instead of Lukaku) with him. That's how big his impact has been.
Anyway, it would be a more interesting discussion about Rashford. In the, sadly quite possible, scenario of United remaining a 3-7 team with the occasional good run in the domestic cups or in the Europa/Conference League in the foreseeable, Rash could stay here until his mid 30s, not improving a single bit as a footballer, and still manage to become United's top goal scorer of all time by delivering 15-20 goals p/s in all competitions. I don't think he's fit to lace Rooney's boots and i won't even mention the late Sir Bobby. But StatmanDave may think otherwise.
I don't get why people get so worked up. You can believe that he's a great player and fun to watch when he finds a good vein of form and still be of the opinion that he is not the best thing since sliced bread. There have been players whose impact had been far greater than Bruno's at the highest level, players whose individual skills were much better and they were worshipped by the fans, yet their teams were better off without them in the end. It's a mix of "once in a lifetime" like individual skills and a cult of personality aura about them. I think Bruno falls short on both accounts and his impact has been overstated by a fanbase that's desperate for silver linings. A radio producer in my part of the world mentioned the other day that United have gone from a high water mark of 68 goals without him (Martial, Rashford and Lukaku up front) to one of 73 goals (Greenwood and Cavani instead of Lukaku) with him. That's how big his impact has been.
Anyway, it would be a more interesting discussion about Rashford. In the, sadly quite possible, scenario of United remaining a 3-7 team with the occasional good run in the domestic cups or in the Europa/Conference League in the foreseeable, Rash could stay here until his mid 30s, not improving a single bit as a footballer, and still manage to become United's top goal scorer of all time by delivering 15-20 goals p/s in all competitions. I don't think he's fit to lace Rooney's boots and i won't even mention the late Sir Bobby. But StatmanDave may think otherwise.
More absolute nonsense…You brought up ‘a couple of months’ which would imply that aside from those few months he has been our best player every other month.
If we now take a bigger view….Can you justify to me how he outperformed Rashford, Casemiro and Martinez last season? Can you then justify how he outperformed Ronaldo, or in fact any other player, the season before?
So there’s two whole seasons out of three full seasons that he’s played. This season he’s been abysmal, the ONLY reason at this point he’d be in the conversation is the 20+ injuries we’ve had.
Now really…He’s been our best performer for the entire time he’s been here, bar a couple of months where Rashford has played well? Bollocks.
Think he's underrated for sure and a very good player. However, unforunately for him, he's playing in the worst United team for ages with dire football. He can, as he has shown multiple times, create more than pretty much anyone else, but people seem to dislike his behaviour. I have no issues with his gesticulations or body language; to me, he appears as if he actually cares and nobody works harder. He deserves to become one that we remember fondly, if not a cult hero, but I have my doubts if he will.
Sounds like a wretched way to be a fan if your legends only come from your trophy winning teams. And believe it or not United have had way more years being bad than good. Hard to believe legends can't come from bad times.
Well do you expect any decent answers in return, considering you offer no real arguments instead of just saying "We're manchester United" and "Wow"? You basically start out your whole replying to this thread by just brushing off any notion/debate with no real arguments. Expect people to answer in a manner that suits that.
Have you even read the thread and the posts I've made about Bruno - they're full of arguments. You just read one reply and consider that the whole conversation. You're a waste of time. See you on my ignore list.
The guy is clearly the best player on our team with the best work ethic, and is almost the only player on the team who actually creates anything. I don't know what is wrong with fans trying to make out our best player is the problem when everybody else on the team is actually underperforming. United fans have well and truly lost it
If Rashford was able to score 15-20 goals per season, every season, from now until his mid twenties that would be a fantastic career and he would fully deserve any plaudits that come his way. Not going to happen though.
If he were a great captain comparable to the likes of Robson or Keane, then sure he could, even if we won nothing. But he's not comparable to them. He's erratic, whiny and inconsistent, and he dives. In a great team he'd not be the star player or captain, he's only afforded that privilege here because we build poor teams. For me he's not capable of legend status
Agreed.
Spot on. We have lost our way as fans and become ridiculously spoiled if an academy player can spend his entire career playing for us, score double-digits every year along the way, break the goal-scoring record and still have fans question whether or not said player is a legend.
Nowhere near
Now there's a post worth reading. Cool, calm and collected!
Obviously going on the overall trend on here he's nowhere near legendary status, which myself I don't agree on.
Everyone entitled to their own opinions but some of the reactions ????